New sub 10L itx case, SilverStone RVZ02!!!

iFreilicht

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I have to say, I really like the sliding I/O covers on both. The RVZ02 isn't everyones cup of tea and the power button looks absolutely attrocious in that location, but the sliding cover is great nevertheless. And on the ml08, it just looks perfectly placed. It is beyond me why they would choose clear, glossy plastic for a part that is supposed to be moved with your fingers, though.

The edge wrapping windows are pretty cool as well. Not that nicely executed, though. I would've liked the panels to be inside the panel quite a bit more, but that would've changed the CPU cooler clearance compared to non-windowed versions, so I see why they didn't do it.

I think it's still interesting that they place the HDDs below the GPU which is the hottest place in the entire case. You'd hope they tested it.
I'm also wondering how many space these cases waste. It seems that with these dimensions, you are about 3mm of height short of fitting an ATX PSU inside.
On the other hand, these are rather small cases for the retail market where you have to include much more options for large GPUs, 3.5" drives and stuff like that and it's certainly not a bad thing that Silverstone keeps pushing SFF.
 

SaperPL

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Wow, so they just shaved off one inch from RVZ01 height - meh...

Apart from that - cool that at least there's windowless version which looks quite decent
 

crun

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looks nice, any idea when rvz02/ml08 will be available in europe? pricing? any reviews coming?
 

Skhmt

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zHHhDJU.png


I sized them to scale by using the mobo back plate cutout, then right aligned them.

Looks like the sizes are roughly correct, the RVZ02 is a tiny bit taller (with more usable space), and a noticeable amount thinner.

The manual says something interesting: "Expansion card area is also passively vented so we recommend graphics cards with open air cooler for best cooling performance." I think I remember Linus saying that a blower style card would be best?

I'm also trying to figure out how it's only 0.3L smaller than an ncase m1 and yet the ncase can fit so much more in it.
 
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Phuncz

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How they reckon open air-cooled GPUs provide better performance is beyond me, as that warm air will still be recycled.
 

iFreilicht

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How they reckon open air-cooled GPUs provide better performance is beyond me, as that warm air will still be recycled.

To me it seems like the design they're going with places the GPU as close to the panel as possible to basically stop the fans from recycling any air within the case. And as they can only pull air in from the outside, all hot air gets exhausted out the side and back because the GPU has a compartment seperated from the main one.
You can still use a blower, but with open air you get more fans and direct cold air on every part of the heatsink. I think that's their reasoning, it to me it is sound.
 
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Raven RVZ02

350 x 350 x 80
9.8 L
SFX and SFX-L PSU
dual-slot full length graphics card
shame... cos that original dimension was soo much better imho. :mad:
350 x 80 x 350 mm (9.8lt) vs 380 x 88 x 370 mm (12.4lt)
I really hate the fact that Silverstone ITX cases #1 priority = long GPU support.. ffs why make the case bigger just to support super long GPU? how many people use 11+" GPU in ITX cases??? :confused:

I just want small ITX case, if the case can also support short GPU like R9 Nano or GTX970 Mini then that's just a bonus.
 
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Tony Ou

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How they reckon open air-cooled GPUs provide better performance is beyond me, as that warm air will still be recycled.

We tested RVZ02 quite extensively (as usual with our cases) and open air-cooled cards were simply better performing in it.


shame... cos that original dimension was soo much better imho. :mad:
350 x 80 x 350 mm (9.8lt) vs 380 x 88 x 370 mm (12.4lt)
I really hate the fact that Silverstone ITX cases #1 priority = long GPU support.. ffs why make the case bigger just to support super long GPU? how many people use 11+" GPU in ITX cases??? :confused:

I just want small ITX case, if the case can also support short GPU like R9 Nano or GTX970 Mini then that's just a bonus.

Our current goal is still to popularize the slim form factor as much as we can so component compatibility is a big priority for us. If RVZ02 was a crowd funded project, we can certainly be bolder in shaving off dimensions. But we also want to sell this product to more people thinking about moving from a tower or big cube case that will have components they want to reuse so we have to take smaller steps in downsizing. There are already some expressing disappointment in RVZ02's CPU cooler limitation as it has shrunken down to 58mm (from 83mm in the RVZ01) despite the fact we offer CPU coolers ourselves to help ease the transition and these are not that expensive relatively speaking (~$50). On the other hand, we are unable to offer GPU alternatives ourselves and they are much bigger investments ($100+) so most users are less likely to re-purchase a card just to fit our cases.

Hopefully when we are able to present GPU makers with bigger pool of slim case customers on the market, they will respond by offering more smaller cards and we can then offer more smaller case designs in return to go into a positive cycle.

One other thing we are also currently working on that will make truly smaller ITX cases is to promote designs like the ML06-E. This 7 liter case forgoes the use of riser card and has room for dual-slot low-profile cards so installation is easy and is really as small as a console (Xbox One is 7.2 liters). The problem now is that low-profile cards are still very limited. So we are pushing both GPU vendors to not only release short-depth cards but also low-profile versions of them. I think this will probably be more along the line of what you may want in the future?
 

Madao

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Hey Tony, what caused the CPU cutout size reduction? The CES prototype had this nice big cutout that I think would have made rear mounted M.2 SSD installation easy.
 

Phuncz

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We tested RVZ02 quite extensively (as usual with our cases) and open air-cooled cards were simply better performing in it.
All the better, since most GPUs available are open air-cooled cards ! It just seems counter-intuitive since there is about 10-15mm between a two-slot GPU's fans and the case wall, with not much place the hot air can go to except the way it came in. I'm not claiming it doesn't work but I'm curious why it works on this case.

So if you could get an insight from an engineer or two on this, that would be amazing :)

One other thing we are also currently working on that will make truly smaller ITX cases is to promote designs like the ML06-E. This 7 liter case forgoes the use of riser card and has room for dual-slot low-profile cards so installation is easy and is really as small as a console (Xbox One is 7.2 liters). The problem now is that low-profile cards are still very limited. So we are pushing both GPU vendors to not only release short-depth cards but also low-profile versions of them. I think this will probably be more along the line of what you may want in the future?
Awesome to see a case manufacturer go to these lengths to do this. But two-slot low profile cards can hardly ever be quiet or perform within it's TDP if we're looking at something above mainstream GPU's. While technically possible with AIO coolers (ala Fury X), the realestate for a decent fan is not there. The GPU industry has already given us a few "ITX"-card options, which already are a good compromise in size/performance, with the AMD R9 Nano soon to be released to add to that unofficial form factor in a proverbial big way.

I think the most important step to continue the momentum of SFF adoption is to focus on these ITX cards. If AMD thinks it's a good form factor (with two of the new AMD cards), this might be the horse to bet on. As long as boards don't come with horizontal PCIe connectors, PCIe extenders are the best solution for thin SFF cases.
 
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Our current goal is still to popularize the slim form factor as much as we can so component compatibility is a big priority for us. If RVZ02 was a crowd funded project, we can certainly be bolder in shaving off dimensions. But we also want to sell this product to more people thinking about moving from a tower or big cube case that will have components they want to reuse so we have to take smaller steps in downsizing. There are already some expressing disappointment in RVZ02's CPU cooler limitation as it has shrunken down to 58mm (from 83mm in the RVZ01) despite the fact we offer CPU coolers ourselves to help ease the transition and these are not that expensive relatively speaking (~$50). On the other hand, we are unable to offer GPU alternatives ourselves and they are much bigger investments ($100+) so most users are less likely to re-purchase a card just to fit our cases.

Hopefully when we are able to present GPU makers with bigger pool of slim case customers on the market, they will respond by offering more smaller cards and we can then offer more smaller case designs in return to go into a positive cycle.

One other thing we are also currently working on that will make truly smaller ITX cases is to promote designs like the ML06-E. This 7 liter case forgoes the use of riser card and has room for dual-slot low-profile cards so installation is easy and is really as small as a console (Xbox One is 7.2 liters). The problem now is that low-profile cards are still very limited. So we are pushing both GPU vendors to not only release short-depth cards but also low-profile versions of them. I think this will probably be more along the line of what you may want in the future?
Yes I understand the reasons but not everyone is cheap and unwilling to make sacrifice for smaller size. 13" GPU support for RVZ02 is still way overkill imho, and it would have been better if it was smaller and only supported 10.5" GPU, etc.

ML06-E is actually one of my fav case atm despite GTX750Ti being the best GPU for the case but unfortunately its not available yet. However I came up with simple design for small Silverstone case, http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1869760. It'll be the only Silverstone SFF case that can support full height/short length GPUs, and it will also be one of the smallest ITX gaming case. It shouldn't cost much to design/produce this case to target slightly different ITX market(personally I would use better material for exterior so its solid and price the case ~25-35% higher than SG13) since all your other ITX gaming cases support long GPUs.
 

Tony Ou

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Hey Tony, what caused the CPU cutout size reduction? The CES prototype had this nice big cutout that I think would have made rear mounted M.2 SSD installation easy.

It was for structural rigidity reasons.


All the better, since most GPUs available are open air-cooled cards ! It just seems counter-intuitive since there is about 10-15mm between a two-slot GPU's fans and the case wall, with not much place the hot air can go to except the way it came in. I'm not claiming it doesn't work but I'm curious why it works on this case.

So if you could get an insight from an engineer or two on this, that would be amazing :)

Turned out the distance between the case wall and the GPU fans in the RVZ02 was short enough for sufficient fresh air to be drawn in to somewhat overcome the negative effect of recycled hot air. In the end, a blower card, even with its advantage of being able to pump hot air out of the case, still loses out because it only has one fan to work with versus a two fan open-air card in a passive environment with no active intake case fan.


Yes I understand the reasons but not everyone is cheap and unwilling to make sacrifice for smaller size. 13" GPU support for RVZ02 is still way overkill imho, and it would have been better if it was smaller and only supported 10.5" GPU, etc.

ML06-E is actually one of my fav case atm despite GTX750Ti being the best GPU for the case but unfortunately its not available yet. However I came up with simple design for small Silverstone case, http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1869760. It'll be the only Silverstone SFF case that can support full height/short length GPUs, and it will also be one of the smallest ITX gaming case. It shouldn't cost much to design/produce this case to target slightly different ITX market(personally I would use better material for exterior so its solid and price the case ~25-35% higher than SG13) since all your other ITX gaming cases support long GPUs.

Thanks for your feedback! We did have a case in concurrent development with SG13 that was designed to fit those supposed "ITX" short length graphics cards so it had a nearly square proportion. Unfortunately, it didn't make it to production due to various reasons.
 

SaperPL

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Hopefully when we are able to present GPU makers with bigger pool of slim case customers on the market, they will respond by offering more smaller cards and we can then offer more smaller case designs in return to go into a positive cycle.

One other thing we are also currently working on that will make truly smaller ITX cases is to promote designs like the ML06-E. This 7 liter case forgoes the use of riser card and has room for dual-slot low-profile cards so installation is easy and is really as small as a console (Xbox One is 7.2 liters). The problem now is that low-profile cards are still very limited. So we are pushing both GPU vendors to not only release short-depth cards but also low-profile versions of them. I think this will probably be more along the line of what you may want in the future?

Low profile cards won't get as powerful as itx sized 970's unless memory goes into package as in most recent AMD HBM-using cards.

What do you mean by pushing GPU vendors? If you're in contact with them how much are you able to influence how the cards are designed?

Is there a chance you could push for changes in how PEG connectors are placed in cards that have increased PCB height? Keeping the reference location of PEG connector is also crucial if we want to have the outer(side) wall as close as possible so the air won't get recycled too much.
 

Tony Ou

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Low profile cards won't get as powerful as itx sized 970's unless memory goes into package as in most recent AMD HBM-using cards.

What do you mean by pushing GPU vendors? If you're in contact with them how much are you able to influence how the cards are designed?

Is there a chance you could push for changes in how PEG connectors are placed in cards that have increased PCB height? Keeping the reference location of PEG connector is also crucial if we want to have the outer(side) wall as close as possible so the air won't get recycled too much.

Our influence is limited, but we will keep trying as we've had success before with other things. We were against the idea of the so called "ITX" GPU so it'd be strange for us to talk about it with them. But you are right about the PEG connector position on some of those cards.
 

SaperPL

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We were against the idea of the so called "ITX" GPU so it'd be strange for us to talk about it with them. But you are right about the PEG connector position on some of those cards.

I'm not talking solely about itx sized gpu's but all oversized PCB units.

I've made a mock-up of how the card's pcb should be oversized some time ago(don't mind the 19mm dimension)

ZfEoGIz.jpg


I think there were initially such MSI Lightning units with huge power section on that oversize but couldn't find the model.

(Maybe SLI/CFX connectors also should go with oversize to not obstruct the bridge with the card radiator)

This way you could install oversized PCB cards in slim cases that were following strictly PCI-E reference since you still have the original space for PEG connectors.

Anyway It could be nice if PCI-E 4.0 included the pcb oversizing rules and guidelines for manufacturers.
 

SaperPL

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I think the reason case manufacturers could be against it is quite simple - ITX gpu's make another niche - If you want to fully takes advantage of such a card then your case need to be smaller and wont fit full length cards anymore. That means making another segment of cases that aren't universal for all the components on the market.
 

illram

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I guess so. I hope that isn't the reason; it would be a shame to hear about a major case manufacturer discouraging the development of smaller components. I hope smaller, faster, and more efficient is a continuing trend in computer components in general.

I think mini-ITX GPU's still co-exist nicely with the current crop of small but versatile mini-ITX cases--many of which are offered by Silverstone--where a shorter card makes for an easier build, more space for circulation, wires, etc. I think here at [H] we have a unique crowd on the cutting edge of "small as it gets," but I think mini-ITX GPU's can appeal to a wider audience also who may simply be nervous about fitting that 10.5" inch card in their 10.5" case...
 

Tony Ou

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I'm not talking solely about itx sized gpu's but all oversized PCB units.

I've made a mock-up of how the card's pcb should be oversized some time ago(don't mind the 19mm dimension)

I think there were initially such MSI Lightning units with huge power section on that oversize but couldn't find the model.

(Maybe SLI/CFX connectors also should go with oversize to not obstruct the bridge with the card radiator)

This way you could install oversized PCB cards in slim cases that were following strictly PCI-E reference since you still have the original space for PEG connectors.

Anyway It could be nice if PCI-E 4.0 included the pcb oversizing rules and guidelines for manufacturers.

I see what you mean. But if we have our way, we would actually discourage GPU vendors from making any oversize boards. For SFF use, what you suggested is probably only helpful for a handful of case types. As our RVZ02 has proved during testing, recycled heat is not a big deal if there is enough fresh air being drawn in.


I'm curious why, are you able to shed more light on this?

We simply wanted GPU vendors to focus their resources on developing low profile cards instead. The size reduction that we can design in a case from using a low-profile card is much more significant than one that is centered on shorter full-height card.
 

iFreilicht

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Good point, SaperPL, didn't think about that. What could also be a problem is that ITX GPUs aren't standardised and most of the ones that exist don't follow the PCIe standard. That means that those GPUs are sometimes a bit taller, sometimes a bit longer, and that can cause all sorts of problems, mainly that you have to make the case larger to accommodate every option and that some newer GPUs still may not fit which results in bad customer feedback and maybe even higher return rates. LP GPUs are a different story, and that's maybe why Silverstone also makes LP cases: Because they know that it will be compatible with every LP GPU out there.
The same can't be said about ITX GPUs.

EDIT: Didn't see Tony already answered this. I think ITX has more potential than LP, especially in terms of performance. I don't think a LP GTX 970 will ever happen.
 
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SaperPL

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We simply wanted GPU vendors to focus their resources on developing low profile cards instead. The size reduction that we can design in a case from using a low-profile card is much more significant than one that is centered on shorter full-height card.

Low profile cards ain't good for gaming though since there's not much space for cooler. That could change if case manufacturing companies as yours pushed for low profile cards that have water blocks installed. 150W gpu with on-package memory could work in such configuration.

Good point, SaperPL, didn't think about that.
Not sure if you're saying you didn't think about what I said or I didn't think about what Tony said :)
 

illram

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We simply wanted GPU vendors to focus their resources on developing low profile cards instead. The size reduction that we can design in a case from using a low-profile card is much more significant than one that is centered on shorter full-height card.

I see, interesting and thanks for the insight. :)
 

veryrarium

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I might prefer a 244mm long low profile GTX970 over a 170mm long standard-height (or oversized-height) GTX970, with two of the former in SLI on an mATX board allowing extra space between the top of the cards and the left-side panel for a 240mm rad+fan that might not fit with the standard-height cards unless making the case wider. (Thinking of SG09/SG10 and what theGryphon suggested in the early development of Kimera Industry Nova, plus a rad.)

Anyway, I also want GPU vendors to stop making oversized-height cards, and additionally want them to place any 6pin/8pin power connectors in a 1cm recessed location instead of flush with the edge of the cards.
 

iFreilicht

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I might prefer a 244mm long low profile GTX970 over a 170mm long standard-height (or oversized-height) GTX970, with two of the former in SLI on an mATX board allowing extra space between the top of the cards and the left-side panel for a 240mm rad+fan that might not fit with the standard-height cards unless making the case wider. (Thinking of SG09/SG10 and what theGryphon suggested in the early development of Kimera Industry Nova, plus a rad.)

Anyway, I also want GPU vendors to stop making oversized-height cards, and additionally want them to place any 6pin/8pin power connectors in a 1cm recessed location instead of flush with the edge of the cards.

Now on to becoming CEO of all mayor electronics companies at once to make this happen. :D

But seriously having the power plugs recessed would be awesome. Oversized cards do have their uses in large cases, though. Not that I'd care about them, but you have to consider that. Also I'd imagine a full-length LP card to be very flimsy.
 

Tony Ou

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Just an update as the first English review of RVZ02 is up at TechSpot.

They found the case surprisingly easy to assemble and it cooled reasonably well, which were our design targets. Hopefully this helps backup what we've claimed with this case and answered some of your concerns!
 

yolostrats

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I'm also trying to figure out how it's only 0.3L smaller than an ncase m1 and yet the ncase can fit so much more in it.

Limitation of the shape.



But seriously having the power plugs recessed would be awesome. Oversized cards do have their uses in large cases, though. Not that I'd care about them, but you have to consider that. Also I'd imagine a full-length LP card to be very flimsy.

Recessed plugs if possible but another idea would be plugs that extend on a short cable. Would look a bit ugly if you're using sleeved cables (due to a plug hanging there) but it would not matter for most ultra SFF cases and custom designs.

It means you can angle and position the plug however you want.
 

iFreilicht

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Recessed plugs if possible but another idea would be plugs that extend on a short cable. Would look a bit ugly if you're using sleeved cables (due to a plug hanging there) but it would not matter for most ultra SFF cases and custom designs.

It means you can angle and position the plug however you want.

The problem with that is that soldering leads directly to the PCB of the GPU is not only ugly (it DOES matter for marketing), but due to the exposed nature of those plugs can be rather dangerous.

Because the cables would be exposed, you'd either have to hot snot them (even uglier), or place the sockets for the cables recessed below the cooler where the user can't touch them.
In any case, it would make for an interesting mod, but not much more.
You can pull that stuff with PSUs because they have all those connections inside their housing, which is grounded.

It's an interesting idea for a mod, maybe, but not more.
 

EdZ

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I don't think exposed solder points is a significant safety issue: any card without a backplate will be exposing the solder points on the rear of the through-hole socket mounts anyway.
 

iFreilicht

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I was thinking along the lines of exposed wire at the base where the wires are soldered to the PCB, where the wear would be the greatest.
 

EdZ

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Properly soldered there should be no exposed wire (apart from the solder on the rear of the board common to all through-hole components). The insulation should butt directly onto the PCB (with 0.25-0.5mm tolerance for shrinkage due to heat) with the wire making an extra pass through an untinned hole (to act as strain relief) if no glue is to be used.
 

zalbard

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The manual mentions a graphics card holder, which only works if the card is not wider than 35mm. But what if the card is taller than 121mm? Does the holder still fit in that case? The Techspot review doesn't appear to use it.
 

andgo

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Dear SilverStone,

Unfortunately even the ML08 design looks too busy/crowded to me.

In my opinion there is too much unnecessary detailing on the exterior.

Please consider just having a flat, plain aluminium front, and leave out the plastic venting on the side.

Unfortunately I will have no other option than go for custom crowdfunded cases that are twice the price of yours...

Thanks,
Andreas
 

OldandCrusty

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Dear SilverStone,

Unfortunately even the ML08 design looks too busy/crowded to me.

In my opinion there is too much unnecessary detailing on the exterior.

Please consider just having a flat, plain aluminium front, and leave out the plastic venting on the side.

Unfortunately I will have no other option than go for custom crowdfunded cases that are twice the price of yours...

Thanks,
Andreas

Even the FTZ01B?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163278&cm_re=ftz01b-_-11-163-278-_-Product

Then the Fractal Design Node 202 should fit your needs. http://www.fractal-design.com/home/product/cases/node-series/node-202
 

Silentbob343

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Dear SilverStone,

Unfortunately even the ML08 design looks too busy/crowded to me.

In my opinion there is too much unnecessary detailing on the exterior.

Please consider just having a flat, plain aluminium front, and leave out the plastic venting on the side.

Unfortunately I will have no other option than go for custom crowdfunded cases that are twice the price of yours...

Thanks,
Andreas
The fact you are willing to spend twice the price tells them you aren't in their target market. I like clean looking cases so I feel your pain.
 

andgo

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Clean looking cases do not have to be expensive. I can see that the Node 202 that was mentioned actually seems all right (while not perfect). I'm only asking for more competition in this market.
 

spencers

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Ordered the RVZ02B-W last night on Newegg for $85. Along with the SX500-LG power supply. Going to separate the gaming duties from my NAS (in sig) into a gaming rig.
 
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