pendragon1
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2000
- Messages
- 52,051
isnt dark empire like a "what if" series and shouldnt be considered canon or eu? never read them just heard aboot them...
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
New Star Wars movie to be made by Ragnarok director
- Thread starter erek
- Start date
That is up for debate some say it is canon, others say it isn't Lucas Arts never really clarified it and the publishers didn't care as it was making them money. Like I said it really muddies the water because it throws a lot of stuff for a loop and other books published at later dates either go it with it as having happened or they ignore it you end up with one of those famous Marvel style multiverse splits over it.
cause he did so well with EP's 1-3 ? 4-6 were mostly his now ex wife.
If you had read anything of what he had "planned" for episodes 7-9 you would change your mind really fast. If he'd kept the franchise and made his movies it would have been The Midichlorian Show. I'm not kidding. He was obsessed with midichlorians and the idea was to base new movies on midichlorians and the beings or whatever that controlled midichlorians. I don't care who you are, that sounds like an even worse trainwreck than what we got and there's no way he'd do any better.
Also, as someone else posted, it was his (at the time) wife who basically kept the original trilogy on track instead of going off in so many screwed up directions like he wanted it to. The man has good ideas sometimes but he needs someone to keep him under control or he'll go off the tracks which is what we saw with the prequels.
DeathFromBelow
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2005
- Messages
- 7,315
I honestly don't like any of the old post RotJ EU material. Stuff like grand smurf Thrawn and the Vong... it just doesn't seem like Star Wars to me.
I'd like to see a prequel trilogy reboot or something KOTOR-related.
I'd like to see a prequel trilogy reboot or something KOTOR-related.
And yet yoda could kick virtually anyone's ass, so size is irrelevant.
Rubbish. We had almost 100 years where virtually everyone was white, and there wasn't a bunch of white guys complaining that they had minorities. Straight people weren't saying, where are the gay characters. The main reason you didn't see them, is because it would lower the box office.
There's nothing wrong with having gay characters. If they're their, fine. If they're not fine. If woman acting like a man = kickass woman, I don't recall guys whining about that with Alien(s), or Terminator (to name but 2 movies with a woman kicking ass).
Huh? The 80s were very much about looks and money. And frankly, music artists have been politically active since, at least, the 60s.
Of the 82 movies I saw in 2019, I'd only consider Hotel Mumbai (which is still mostly english) and The Farewell (mostly subtitled) foreign. A bargain for 21/month.
So all parts should be played by hamsters and poodles? Sorry, but if having a black man and an asian woman in a movie ruins one's time disconnecting from reality, that says more about that viewer than the movie or those who made the film.
Guys on this board (and it's almost exclusively an issue for guys) and on the internet in general see SJW bs in TFA it wasn't there. They found it in Solo. It wasn't there. Rise of Skywalker was bad because it's bad, not because of a few minority characters. And given that JJ wanted this to be a much longer movie, it's possible (though unlikely) that his cut will make it better.
M76
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2012
- Messages
- 14,031
There are films with hamsters and poodles, and they work too. That is the thing: it doesn't matter who plays the part as long as the story makes sense and the characters are good.
When you have this rigid compulsion to somehow match real world ethnic and other ratios (except for white people) it can only ruin the products. And which ratio do you need to match? If a chinese movie is only representing chinese people is that bad?
Instead of going with the story, they create characters and try to cram it in there to meet quotas, it is completely ridiculous. I don't want all white movies, I want movies with good stories that make sense.
And you can't have that when the main concern of the writers is representation and sending political messages.
The sjw left always conveniently glosses over is the fact that the supposed racists who are against diversity never complain about all minority characters, just badly written ones. The fact is we don't suffer from selective racism, we just hate bad writing and token characters.
I refuse to believe you can't understand the difference between having a gay character, vs having a character who happens to be gay. The point is that characters should never be defined by their race or sexual orientation or even gender.
And as long as there are lunatics out there counting the number of X-es and Y-s in everything racism and sexism is here to stay.
You don't see the forest because of the trees. It is an overarching theme in the movies:
- They made Rey infallible and a Mary Sue, because they wanted to send the message that women can do no wrong and are better than men.
- They also made a red haired women be a terrible boss, because they wanted to send the message that women are better leaders, and ended up creating the lamest self sacrifice in cinema history.
- They also inserted a minority character and gave her a terrible and unnecessary side story to meet representation quotas, where it didn't made sense. The only reason rose tico was in the last jedi was representation.
- The only reason the space lama side story existed is to give her screen time and a wink to real world animal rights groups. Again inserting real world politics into a fictional universe where it was out of place.
- Finn who was a perfectly good character in Force Awakens was relegated to being her token black sidekick. Completely wasting the character's potential.
- Han Solo was killed off in the most unceremonious way to represent out with the old guard in with the new (meaning out with toxic masculinity in with the red haired space feminists)
- All the while they failed to give any meaningful role to captain phasma who actually could've been a good strong female character.
- Luke Skywalker was made into a space hermit who completely contradicted everything he ever stood for, imagine trying to kill your own apprentice our of fear. I thought fear was the dark side, so luke is a sith now?
- To make way for Rey as being the centerpiece, because we can't have a male lead in our diverse current year movie.
- They made the main villains of the movie completely unremarkable and childish.
I'm looking forward to this, I have enjoyed his work since "What We Do in the Shadows", a mockumentary about vampires who live together. It's hysterical!
See "Hunt for the Wilderpeople." Taika Waititi is awesome.
Unfortunately Thrawn has been brought into SW canon again through Rebels. This takes him from after the original trilogy to some years before the original trilogy.
I have not, but I am going to watch it soon.
I haven't seen this yet either, but it is on my list!
Darunion
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2010
- Messages
- 5,321
His character is so well done and terrifying, he is what the empire needs and would love to see him on screen. Not sure who should play him though, probably Josh Brolin, hes kinda what they use for everything now lol.
Been a long time since I read those books, might have to pick them up again.
A lot of crap that bugs you didn't bug the majority of viewers. I'll add I remember before the movie came out the Anti SJW crowd, RIGHT HERE ON [H] complaining that Finn was black, because Finn was originally white in some obscure comic. As for having all chinese characters in a film a about china, that makes sense. This isn't a real universe. I have no idea who the terrible red haired female boss was, and I can't imagine how havinga terrible woman as a boss makes women better leaders.
You complain about Rose in TLJ. I can promise you there are at least as many people complaining about her reduced role in the current movie, which they consider an effort by Disney to make people like yourself feel better after TLJ.
JJ wrote his movies. Johnson wrote his. Johnson's was infinitely better than the theatrical release of RoS (we'll see if the longer cuts somehow improves it).
Han Solo died, because it came as a shock (and likely at the behest of Ford). I wasn't the only one in the theater who gasped when he died and it was not out with the old, it was (for better or worse), a call back to Ep IV when Obi Wan died.
Rey was made the lead, because that's the story JJ wrote. FFS, would you be saying, "why did they make Ray a guy instead of a woman," given the exact same script? Fuck no. You'd just say the movie wasn't good (unless it was suddenly good because Rey was Ray)
The movies are flawed (virtually every Star Wars movie has been flawed, and all the ones after RotJ, with the exception of TFA (IMNSHO) have failed (most of them badly) and that includes Lucas's films).
Most of the rest of your bullets have nothing to do with alleged SJW crimes, just bad writing.. Luke is a hermit. not SJW. Kylo is lame and childish: not SJW. Han died: not sjw (though because you're clearly very sensitive to this stuff, you read that into it).
Finn getting to little in the films, not an SJW thing...but I"m sure if it was a bigger role the anti-sjw crowed would complain about him having too big a role, just like they complained that the actor was black before TFA was released.
If you don't like the film fine. i don't like the latest movie and didn't love TLJ, but I'm sorry bud, I heard this about TFA, and it was bullshit. I heard it about Solo (complete bullshit). But look, nobody forces you to see the movies. I only went to this one, because it was the end of the series. I knew going in it wasn't a great movie, but again, had not a thing to do characters being Asian, or female or gay (and was there a gay character, other than 2 women briefly kissing at the end and would you complain if it'd been a guy and woman kissing (almost certainly not).
pendragon1
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2000
- Messages
- 52,051
thats all just YOUR opinion, same as other people having their own. and id love for you to find that post you claim about finn, never heard that one before...
M76
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2012
- Messages
- 14,031
LOL, you asked how social justice ruined it, and when I list the most heinous things you try to shovel it under the rug by saying "Not all people are bothered by that" Thank you captain obvious, of course #notall.
You don't understand because you don't want to understand.
They didn't intend to make a terrible leader, but that's how it turned out, as it always does with SJW style writing where feelings trump reason and logic.
Again, how is that relevant? Of course SJWs (who don't even want to see the movie, and were never SW fans) complain if the SJW indoctrination and virtue signalling is reduced. You asked how SW was ruined by the agenda, don't change the subject. And BTW it doesn't matter how much screen time Rose Tico has, as long as it makes sense and an integral part of the plot. If the only way they can make her character worthwhile is by cutting the role, that's on them, not me.
So what? Two wrongs makes a who cares?
Case in point: bad writing. Obi Wan made a sacrifice to save the others, Han Solo was wimpishly murdered by his own son for no reason whatsoever. Yeah it's the same...
Good on you for grasping the real issue. - That was sarcasm, I feel I have to explain everything now, because no matter how hard I try to pull your head above the table, you just keep ducking under it.
Ray wasn't bad because she was a woman, she was bad because she was made to be better than a jedi master without any training whatsoever. You seem to be obsessed with gender, but it doesn't matter one bit to me. What matters is good writing.
SJW Writing = Bad writing, in every case. Not all bad writing is SJW, but all SJW writing is bad. I explained already if you refuse to read and interpret words I can't help you, but don't start this back and forward where you deny everything I say without any evidence. Asserting that is not SJW after I clearly explained why those things are SJW are not gonna cut it. If you have no argument just STOP, please, for my mental health's sake.
Yeah because (whether true or not I can't verify) a few a actual racists speak for everyone who disliked the movies?
You asked how the SJW agenda affected the SW franchise. And when I answer your response is "You don't have to like it" and "Bullshit" If that's the level of discourse you want, you might as well talk to yourself.
TLDR of the conversation:
- Why didn't you like it?
- Because the political agenda in the writing ruined it.
- How was it ruined?!
- Posts laundry list.
- BULLSHIT! YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIKE IT, NOBODY FORCES YOU TO WATCH IT!!!!!!
Last edited:
chameleoneel
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2005
- Messages
- 7,580
I'm assuming you are talking about Laura Dern's character, Holdo?
It actually was intended for her to make poor leadership choices. That's very strictly her arch. She messes up, ignores suggestions (from Poe and others I think), realizes it late, and sacrifices herself to try and fix the bad situation she is now largely responsible for.
I believe that was all intended for subversiveness. Laura Dern is a recognizeable, good actor. They dressed her up all cool and pretty and funky. Holdo's character has a reputation which precedes her. She makes firm decisions and suffers no criticism. Wow look at this awesome woman character-------except, she's messing up this time and endangers many people. Its a pretty interesting role. One which shows how Rian Johnson was trying to play with things for a more interesting trajectory for this trilogy.
Also, I can scarcely remember other times where a woman has played the role of sacrifice and/or a captain going down with the ship. Its usually always a man taking on that difficult role. Often first ensuring the safety of the women. Not saying its never happened. Just saying, its a noteable aspect of this character thread.
Although, the space fabric ripping spirit bomb which results, was kinda weird for Star Wars-----I really liked everything about Holdo, leading up to that moment. And I think it was one of the strongest most clear archs within TLJ.
====
A couple of other things:
The way the casino side plot is forced into in TFA, is lame. But, the side plot itself, is actually pretty good. And its actually a lot to do with Finn, really. Its a thread for Finn, facilitated by Rose.
Finn was a slave, a literal number. Rose showed him that people care about people and animals. And in helping her free those slave horse things, as well as the stable boys, he found some goodness and humanity for himself. And maybe planted the seeds for future purpose as a slave liberator. Its also part of the overarching theme of the movie, that you don't have to hail from a great and noteable lineage, to be great. A theme touched on multiple times, in other threads within the movie.
The side plot also sets up her eventual love interest in him. People who accomplish serious stuff together, often find themselves growing closer. Its a thing. And Rose was established immediately, as a very sentimental character. And Finn's reaction was very fitting of someone who wasn't used to being considered anything at all. Not a person. Not a friend. Not a love interest.
Rian Johnson at least attempted a lot of good stuff in TLJ. I think the time limit on production ultimately resulted in the problems it has. If he had another year to re-write and edit and let some people read the drafts, it could have been even better than it is.
Make no mistake, the reason Han Solo was killed in TFA, is because Harrison Ford is a grump who can barely be bothered anymore. Unless the paycheck is gigantic.
Anyway, I think moving forward, Star Wars would do very well to further embrace the depths of its universe. Genders, Races, Aliens, ages, there's a ton of facets to fill out new stories.
The Mandalorian has been somewhat interesting. But, just barely. I think that Favreau is way too safe with tropes, to really let Star Wars sing, in terms of writing. And I hope that he doesn't get any authority on other Star Wars projects.
Last edited: