New Samsung 4k for everyone.

[Zarathustra[H]]

Do you own a Samsung or are you just trolling? The 6 series has bad PWM blur. I admit that, which is why I returned it. The 7 series and up are much better. I'm sure the JS series are even better. Maybe the JS owners can step in and tell us how horrible the PWM artifact are.

I plan on doing a test when I get home. I've never noticed it myself, but I'll run the linked test, and then take a picture of it at my normal brightness (6-7).

Judging from the PWM charts linked a couple of pages back from rtings - however - it looks like the biggest jump in PWM quality is going from the JU6xxx to the JU7xxx. Looks like a much smaller difference going to the JS8xxx, and the JS9000 looks identical to the JS8xxx to me.

 

[Island]

You know the last 10 pages or so, it seems like people just want to bash on the Samsung and talk about inherent flaws, and all other problems with PWM, poor image quality, dead pixel...etc...etc

I've had my JS9000 for 3 months now. I LOVE my TV. Picture quality looks awesome to me. i don't notice and lag or PWM blur issues. I try not to go looking for it either. I have learned that if and when I do that and scrutinize every single aspect of something...

then I will always come away feeling disappointment. if there is something I have learned in my 30 something years of living in this world it is that NOTHING in this world is perfect.....

I set my TV up the way I like it. I have it with the contrast up, set to dynamic with AMP on. I crank up the sound and play Star Wars BF, FO4, Dayz, Witcher3, and all the rest at 4K blissfulness......I F'IN LOVE MY TV!!!! There...I said it.....

 

[Vapochilled]

Well said...

Can i finally get you guys to give me an IDEa where to get a cheap 40inch 7500 in europe?

Im only finding curved 40 inch 6500 for 690e
Or
7500 but 48inch for 1070 ;(

What to do?

 

[Nightingale007]

You know the last 10 pages or so, it seems like people just want to bash on the Samsung and talk about inherent flaws, and all other problems with PWM, poor image quality, dead pixel...etc...etc

I've had my JS9000 for 3 months now. I LOVE my TV. Picture quality looks awesome to me. i don't notice and lag or PWM blur issues. I try not to go looking for it either. I have learned that if and when I do that and scrutinize every single aspect of something...

then I will always come away feeling disappointment. if there is something I have learned in my 30 something years of living in this world it is that NOTHING in this world is perfect.....

I set my TV up the way I like it. I have it with the contrast up, set to dynamic with AMP on. I crank up the sound and play Star Wars BF, FO4, Dayz, Witcher3, and all the rest at 4K blissfulness......I F'IN LOVE MY TV!!!! There...I said it.....

I'm on the same page with you in respects to learning to just enjoy and be happy with what you got. JS9000 is a beautiful TV.

To address your first point though, it's not that people want to bash or at least not me since I can't speak for others. We are here to share information with one another in order to further advance our knowledge and in the process help inform other potential buyers. The problem I see is some people who already own a particular SAMSUNG model get overly defensive when you try to point out the weak spots to members here looking to gather as much detailed information before committing to a rather substantially large investment. I would hope that when I have questions about any new technology i'm unfamiliar with that members here would relay information to me with as much transparency as possible. So instead arguments abrupt, people start becoming uncivil and start calling others "Trolls" etc.....

Every 4K TV I tested has flaws. Myself I plan in the next week to buy a SONY after weighing in on it's pros and cons and seeing what best fits my needs. In the Sony thread you will never see me try to hide nor downplay any of it's flaws as that would be unfair to anyone else looking to make the best choice for there particular needs.

 

[Vega]

And you know what else is funny? He claims that PWM causes motion blur which I don't believe is true. Motion blur is a result of LCD sample and hold technology and its response rate. Non-PWM has an awful smearing blur, whereas PWM has a different blur with less smear. PWM decreases the affect of the smearing effect, not increase it.

Lightboost is a technology that mimics CRT-like PWM strobing to decrease motion blur. I don't buy the notion that Samsung uses PWM because they cheap out. PWM is superior in decreasing motion blur (less smearing). They sell expensive TV's and monitors, so saving a few bucks is not the reason. Decreasing appearance of motion smearing is the reason that PWM is still used by Samsung. There's definitely a small percentage of the population that's effected by PWM and many monitor makers are pushing non-PWM as a marketing gimmick. I went from a BenQ non-PWM monitor to the Samsung and I prefer the Samsung over the non-PWM monitor as I'm not affected by PWM. However, this notion that PWM is bad and evil in and of itself and that it causes motion blur is spurious and is being pushed by those with an agenda.

You cannot compare refresh synced back-light strobing with PWM. Apples to oranges. Refresh synced strobing like Lightboost and ULMB are perfectly synced to only illuminate the back-light for a very short time after the pixel transition is complete. This eliminates the vast majority of eye tracking motion blur.

PWM pulses the back-light at intervals unrelated to the refresh of the display. Thus displaying the good, the bad and the ugly. You end up with this:

No PWM:

PWM:

You can clearly make out the word "Testing" above without PWM. That is not the case with PWM.

Non-PWM is clearly superior with the way humans view motion. PWM's only reason to exist is that because it's simpler and it's cheaper. My recent JS9000 exhibited low frequency block wave PWM that was quite irritating to say the least. In regard to eye fatigue and motion artifacts.

From TFTCentral:

Where the effect of flicker can really come into play is any time the user's eyes are moving. Under constant illumination with no flickering (e.g. sunlight) the image is smoothly blurred and is how we normally perceive motion. However, when combined with a light source using PWM several discrete afterimages of the screen may be perceived simultaneously and reduce readability and the ability of the eyes to lock onto objects.

While a CRT may flicker as low as 60Hz, only a small strip is illuminated at any time as the electron gun scans from top to bottom. With CCFL and LED backlit TFT displays the entire screen surface illuminates at once, meaning much more light is emitted over a short time. This can be more distracting than in CRTs in some cases, especially if short duty cycles are used.


The only time you would ever want to pulse the back light is if it's in sync with the completion of a pixel transition once every refresh. Otherwise, a solid back-light is the next best thing. PWM is a last resort to control brightness. PWM is so bad that a lot of people set back-light brightness to 100 and then try and adjust screen luminosity via other means.

 

[shredmonster]

What happens with PWM when cycling(under 100% brightness) is it causes motion artifacting. I have a Philips 40" 4K display that uses PWM that cycles at a higher rate Hz than the samsung's and I still noticed the effect @60% brightness.

Here I took this right from blur busters.

PWM

Do you see how the image has multiple repetitions of itself.

Now here is an example of your typical motion blur due to sample and hold effect with some minor ghosting.

Notice the difference. The PWM example causes the ghosting trails to fragment

For anyone with a PWM monitor, click this LINK

It's a test that runs on your browser from blur busters. Set your monitor or TV to 100% brightness and watch the line move horizontally a few times and while in the middle of observing this, start turning down your brightness and you will begin to see the line start to form multiple repetitions of itself. So is essence the ghosting is now comprised of multiple trails of itself , as you will note it splits the ghosting up. This in turn causes a weird effect that reduces motion fluidity when gaming. I notice this very easily when i am moving down streets with electrical wires and corridors etc....

Yeah, I can confirm there is indeed 3-4 lines with backlight at 12 and 1 line with backlight at 20(max). So I recalibrated game mode for 100% backlight setting, surprisingly it isn't painfully bright, and left pc mode at 12 for web use. After gaming for a bit I've noticed a big difference in clarity when panning the camera and just less blur all around. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I didn't realize it was the pwm causing this and now it's much better.

 

[SuperMar1o]

Yeah, I can confirm there is indeed 3-4 lines with backlight at 12 and 1 line with backlight at 20(max). So I recalibrated game mode for 100% backlight setting, surprisingly it isn't painfully bright, and left pc mode at 12 for web use. After gaming for a bit I've noticed a big difference in clarity when panning the camera and just less blur all around. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I didn't realize it was the pwm causing this and now it's much better.

Hmm, neat to know. Did this as well.

 

[Nightingale007]

So did you read the link I posted up there that shows that SCIENCE behind strobing to eliminate the "apparent" appearance of motion blur? Don't confuse your opinion with facts.

Do you own a Samsung or are you just trolling? The 6 series has bad PWM blur. I admit that, which is why I returned it. The 7 series and up are much better. I'm sure the JS series are even better. Maybe the JS owners can step in and tell us how horrible the PWM artifact are.

I was about to respond to your rant, but it seems VEGA beat me to it.
Just accept that you had no real understanding on the subject matter at hand. Enjoy your TV and move on since you have nothing constructive to say other than throw insults at me, when all I am trying to do is help inform people.

PS. No I didn't own the SAMSUNG since I was able to test out the JU7500 ( the model I was going to purchase) with a PS4 hooked up to it and noticed the PWM issues.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I plan on doing a test when I get home. I've never noticed it myself, but I'll run the linked test, and then take a picture of it at my normal brightness (6-7).

Judging from the PWM charts linked a couple of pages back from rtings - however - it looks like the biggest jump in PWM quality is going from the JU6xxx to the JU7xxx. Looks like a much smaller difference going to the JS8xxx, and the JS9000 looks identical to the JS8xxx to me.

Test your JS9000 on the link i provided above.

Alright, here are some pictures of my tests on my JS9000.

First, setup: All tests done in PC Mode on the JS9000.

Pictures provided to be more difficult than I expected.

Camera is a Nikon D90 with a 50mm f/1.4 lens at f/5.6 in Manual mode, with exposure set to 1/120seconds (I figured half the refresh rate would be OK) ISO is 800

I originally tried with a larger aperture, and lower ISO, but it was impossible to get the focus right due to depth of field issues, and no autofocus on a black background.

Images have some grain, this is a result of a combination of taking a picture of a screen, and the 800 ISO noise from the camera. The grain certainly is not visible on screen.

With all the pictures just click for the full resolution.

Samsung JS9000 at full brightness (20):


Samsung JS9000 Half Brightness (10)


Samsung JS9000 My Typical Brightness (7)


I'm not sure if these results are valid. They would be highly dependent on vsync, but for some reason it is telling me that the refresh of the screen is detected as 64hz, so I am not sure what is going on.

Anyway, so those are my results for what it's worth. I don't see any motion blur worth mentioning.

 

[vorpel]

I was about to respond to your rant, but it seems VEGA beat me to it.
Just accept that you had no real understanding on the subject matter at hand. Enjoy your TV and move on since you have nothing constructive to say other than throw insults at me, when all I am trying to do is help inform people.

PS. No I didn't own the SAMSUNG since I was able to test out the JU7500 ( the model I was going to purchase) with a PS4 hooked up to it and noticed the PWM issues.

You people who don't own one...

Cyph and a lot of others have been a positive influence on this thread.

If you don't like the Samsung TVs, great - move on to something else!

 

[LGabrielPhoto]

If you don't like the Samsung TVs, great - move on to something else!

That will never happen mate.
Go to the Sony A7x camera forums at DPReview and you will see more posters (well the same annoying ones over and over) that own Canon and Nikon than Sony ones. Human behavior is rather odd....

 

[Nightingale007]

You people who don't own one...

Cyph and a lot of others have been a positive influence on this thread.

If you don't like the Samsung TVs, great - move on to something else!

By positive do you mean propagating false information, just as he did in his last few posts.

Oh and we don't need to own one to know the effects of PWM, plus i've seen the 7500 in person and tested it. You are a prime example of another defensive owner, if you don't like hearing facts, tough. This has nothing to do with hating on Samsung. The only reason this has become a big deal is because of defensive owners such as yourself who refuse to engage in civil thought provoking conversation and instead start attacking others just because we don't agree or even prove your point of view to be flawed.

So you'd rather people not be aware that reduction in brightness will cause motion artifacts.

The few owners(7500, 6500) that recently tried out the test I linked have already confirmed what myself and many others have said.

 

[Richard Jones]

It's the X810C that's this years' best Sony obviously, not the X830C.
Too bad like with the Samsung people seem to struggle with varying performance depending on firmware.

More importantly I'm baffled at the level or rejection of NCX and Nikyo. You may find them irritating but they're right on the technical side of things. I've seen them lose temper over time because it's clear most of the time they're dealing with misinformed people who are often very reluctant with being taught something they didn't know about.
It's a member/consumer with hurt feelings and pride VS. aggressive teacher tired of being ignored and rejected situation.

It's understandable that people may have different taste for color reproduction etc but when it comes to pure display competence it's no longer a matter of preference, you don't makes excuses; it's got the right specs or it doesn't period.
PWM backlight better be very high frequency or stopped by 100% brightness settings, lack of 4:4:4 in certain modes is ridiculous, and those Samsungs started overpriced considering those flaws it's just reality period.

The Sony's are certainly not the best thing ever (even though those DO the basics right), 2015's TV choice from all brands is very average anyway.
My personal opinion is that this year people seeking a big screen should have jumped on the OLED after price dropped, or wait and see what's coming for 2016.
And that's it.

But calling NCX and Nikyo biased while everyone is linking those hilarious RTINGS reviews ? I can't even...

 

[Vega]

Alright, here are some pictures of my tests on my JS9000.

First, setup: All tests done in PC Mode on the JS9000.

Pictures provided to be more difficult than I expected.

Camera is a Nikon D90 with a 50mm f/1.4 lens at f/5.6 in Manual mode, with exposure set to 1/120seconds (I figured half the refresh rate would be OK) ISO is 800

I originally tried with a larger aperture, and lower ISO, but it was impossible to get the focus right due to depth of field issues, and no autofocus on a black background.

Images have some grain, this is a result of a combination of taking a picture of a screen, and the 800 ISO noise from the camera. The grain certainly is not visible on screen.

With all the pictures just click for the full resolution.


I'm not sure if these results are valid. They would be highly dependent on vsync, but for some reason it is telling me that the refresh of the screen is detected as 64hz, so I am not sure what is going on.

Anyway, so those are my results for what it's worth. I don't see any motion blur worth mentioning.

Z: a few problems with your test. PWM displays generally set to 100 or max brightness revert back to always "on" and PWM is disabled. You must turn down the brightness below max as that it the whole point of PWM dimming. As a matter of fact, simply changing the back-light brightness scale up and down while testufo is running you can clearly see the motion artifacts of PWM as you decrease the brightness. At 20 back-light they will disappear as the back-light is back to steady voltage.

Also, your web browser should be running 60 Hz/FPS V-Sync and with 100% scale (no zoom).

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Z: a few problems with your test. PWM displays generally set to 100 or max brightness revert back to always "on" and PWM is disabled. You must turn down the brightness below max as that it the whole point of PWM dimming. As a matter of fact, simply changing the back-light brightness scale up and down while testufo is running you can clearly see the motion artifacts of PWM as you decrease the brightness. At 20 back-light they will disappear as the back-light is back to steady voltage.

Also, your web browser should be running 60 Hz/FPS V-Sync and with 100% scale (no zoom).

Yep, that is why I tested at 100% and then at lower brightness (I actually did the lower ones first) to get a no PWM to PWM comparison, to see if there were any differences.

I don't believe I was zoomed at all

As far as the syncing goes, I have no idea why it kept settling at 64. I spent some time testing, reloading in different browsers, checking my screen settings, and it would always come back to 64, and the bar on the bottom would be green telling me I was synced.

 

[railroadtycoon]

i ve 5 samsung tv's only the one with classic lcd backlight doesn't have any issue with pwm ghosting.
All other led ones suffer from ghosting in low backlight settings.
just try to play fifa in backlight lower than 20 and when the camera pans all players double and it is unplayable. Only way to get rid of it is to set bl maximum.
It doesn't matter if you have top of the line samsung or cheapest ones , all modern samsung tv's suffer from this.
The only samsung tv i own that doesn't do this behaviour is 2009 model 40a750 which is a traditional lcd which by the way blows all of my modern tv's out of water in terms of colors and black levels.

 

[aadik]

Well said...

Can i finally get you guys to give me an IDEa where to get a cheap 40inch 7500 in europe?

Im only finding curved 40 inch 6500 for 690e
Or
7500 but 48inch for 1070 ;(

What to do?

You can't buy in EU 40'' JU7500 because they didn't made it for EU market I have heard even you can't buy it in CA and only in USA you can buy it and maybe Asia and South-America too.

 

[Nightingale007]

You can't buy in EU 40'' JU7500 because they didn't made it for EU market I have heard even you cant buy it in CA and only in USA and maybe in asia.

Very true, Samsung only offers 50" and up with JU7100 and 7500 here in Canada.

 

[Nightingale007]

Alright, here are some pictures of my tests on my JS9000.

First, setup: All tests done in PC Mode on the JS9000.

Pictures provided to be more difficult than I expected.

Camera is a Nikon D90 with a 50mm f/1.4 lens at f/5.6 in Manual mode, with exposure set to 1/120seconds (I figured half the refresh rate would be OK) ISO is 800

I originally tried with a larger aperture, and lower ISO, but it was impossible to get the focus right due to depth of field issues, and no autofocus on a black background.

Images have some grain, this is a result of a combination of taking a picture of a screen, and the 800 ISO noise from the camera. The grain certainly is not visible on screen.

With all the pictures just click for the full resolution.

Samsung JS9000 at full brightness (20):


Samsung JS9000 Half Brightness (10)


Samsung JS9000 My Typical Brightness (7)


I'm not sure if these results are valid. They would be highly dependent on vsync, but for some reason it is telling me that the refresh of the screen is detected as 64hz, so I am not sure what is going on.

Anyway, so those are my results for what it's worth. I don't see any motion blur worth mentioning.

Yeah something strange is going on there, I found it extremely odd that your pictures showed no sign of pwm artifacting so I went and asked members over at the AVS forum in the JS9000 thread to test there TV's using the same test and they reported seeing multiple lines when turning there brightness down. Example: "I can see multiple lines 4 to be exact kind of flickering as they go by its like that in game mode too, it says valid for whatever that means"

 

[aadik]

I never get valid. I always fail with that and cant test these things with my 100% brightness CCFL screen . Any tips how I can get valid and not fail? I use Firefox. And I see screen tearing always or that screen tearing shows that its still flickering if I use 100% brightness? My V-Sync is on in nVidia control panel.

 

[Climber]

Yep, that is why I tested at 100% and then at lower brightness (I actually did the lower ones first) to get a no PWM to PWM comparison, to see if there were any differences.

I don't believe I was zoomed at all

As far as the syncing goes, I have no idea why it kept settling at 64. I spent some time testing, reloading in different browsers, checking my screen settings, and it would always come back to 64, and the bar on the bottom would be green telling me I was synced.

See here is the thing, I've run all the tests and I can only get the motion blur at a noticeable level in the most unrealistic of settings. Nightingale and the others can give "facts" to help others but the thing they don't understand is that the vast majority of people aren't affected by PWM and setting up artificial tests to prove the weakness of a set isn't informative as it is berating and trolling when they just keep bringing up the same point over and over again.

I had the Sony x830c and neither my wife or I could enjoy the set. The blacks were horrible, watching Star wars my wife kept asking why it looked washed out. Ended up exchanging it for a js8500 and it is a huge difference.

You can run all the artifical tests you want, the only test that matters is the eye test. If you are susceptible to PWM and can easily identify motion blur then find a set other than the Samsung. To continue to sit in these threads and keep spouting the PWM line over and over is borderline trolling. That is what got NCX and Nikyo banned I'm guessing because they just couldn't understand that people could have a different result then them and over time they just couldn't handle it and started insulting anyone who disagreed with them and their tautological arguments.

This thread is evidence that the Samsung is a fine display for the vast majority of owners. Is it perfect? No, is it better than a lot of other displays? Yes. That is why there are choices, find the one that works for you and enjoy your purchase.

 

[shredmonster]

I never get valid. I always fail with that and cant test these things with my 100% brightness CCFL screen . Any tips how I can get valid and not fail? I use Firefox. And I see screen tearing always or that screen tearing shows that its still flickering if I use 100% brightness? My V-Sync is on in nVidia control panel.

Try it with chrome, firefox fails this for me also. Pass or fail though you will be able to see the pwm artifacts below 20 backlight.

 

[aadik]

What can you people say about this picture? Is that good for 60hz screen?
http://i.imgur.com/Ml3Zwdj.jpg

 

[Nightingale007]

See here is the thing, I've run all the tests and I can only get the motion blur at a noticeable level in the most unrealistic of settings. Nightingale and the others can give "facts" to help others but the thing they don't understand is that the vast majority of people aren't affected by PWM and setting up artificial tests to prove the weakness of a set isn't informative as it is berating and trolling when they just keep bringing up the same point over and over again.

I had the Sony x830c and neither my wife or I could enjoy the set. The blacks were horrible, watching Star wars my wife kept asking why it looked washed out. Ended up exchanging it for a js8500 and it is a huge difference.

You can run all the artifical tests you want, the only test that matters is the eye test. If you are susceptible to PWM and can easily identify motion blur then find a set other than the Samsung. To continue to sit in these threads and keep spouting the PWM line over and over is borderline trolling. That is what got NCX and Nikyo banned I'm guessing because they just couldn't understand that people could have a different result then them and over time they just couldn't handle it and started insulting anyone who disagreed with them and their tautological arguments.

This thread is evidence that the Samsung is a fine display for the vast majority of owners. Is it perfect? No, is it better than a lot of other displays? Yes. That is why there are choices, find the one that works for you and enjoy your purchase.

-The test is not artificial it's an eye test the one you claim that matters. Nor is the UFO test for ULMB. They are not isolated trick tests instead the PWM test is quite representative of how the artifacting effects the visual smoothness of the displayed picture. The PWM effect is most noticed the closer you are to the display, which most people here I assume fit into that bracket. Also read up on some of the user's who after running those tests, decided to up there brightness to fix the problem and noticed a difference when gaming. It's a real issue, it exists and pretending it doesn't won't change anything. I have already said if it doesn't bother you, then all the power to you.
I have no interest to keep bringing this subject up, I only wanted to inform potential buyers(which I was recently), nothing more.

-Also why do you keep bringing up that crappy SONY TV the X830C? Even I tell people to avoid that model. The very fact that you purchased the 830C shows you did very little research prior to your purchase, I mean it's an IPS panel with a contrast of 741 : 1. The 830C in no way represents the quality and performance of the other line of TV's Sony sells. The X810C or 850C are the good ones but they start at 55" and up.

-The reason as I mentioned earlier,(if you bothered to read) why it seems that this topic is being spouted over and over is because people(not everyone here) such as yourself keep continuously responding back in an aggressive manner rather then addressing the facts. Low and behold it appears quite a few owners here were not aware of this issue. Glad I could be of some service. After all you say it's all about choices, that is why people such as myself bring these issues forward so that those people can make the best choices possible by way of having the most truthful up to date information at there disposal.

So if you want to move forward as you claim, quite acting out and calling people trolls, and learn to have a civil conversation please, or just ignore me.

 

[Brahmzy]

Display choices are all about requirements and compromise.
I require 4K. I require around 38-42" of screen size. I require pixel response under 10ms so my eyes don't make me vomit. I require PWM to be tolerable enough that I don't vomit. I require a certain level of quality. I require a certain price range. I require a VA panel.
Guess what that leaves me? The 40JU7500. That's it. Period. Is it perfect? Heck no, in some ways it's right on the edge. Never seen a display yet that is perfect.
Show me another monitor that fits this right now. Can't. Maybe there will be better ones in 2016 - I hope so. But for now, this is where it's at and I really enjoy the display despite its shortcomings. As I've said before, the JU6700 did not meet my requirements. Returning it and trying the 7500 was a last ditch effort before trying again for 4K in 2016.

 

[aadik]

Lets hope we see new 2016 Samsung TVs on market march like that was in 2015. So we don't need to wait very long now. Maybe 2016 cheap 6xxx UHD series is even better and cheaper than 2015 7xxx right now.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

-The test is not artificial it's an eye test the one you claim that matters.

One could argue if it isn't evident in game (which in isn't to me) the it doesn't matter.

 

[Nightingale007]

Display choices are all about requirements and compromise.
I require 4K. I require around 38-42" of screen size. I require pixel response under 10ms so my eyes don't make me vomit. I require PWM to be tolerable enough that I don't vomit. I require a certain level of quality. I require a certain price range. I require a VA panel.
Guess what that leaves me? The 40JU7500. That's it. Period. Is it perfect? Heck no, in some ways it's right on the edge. Never seen a display yet that is perfect.
Show me another monitor that fits this right now. Can't. Maybe there will be better ones in 2016 - I hope so. But for now, this is where it's at and I really enjoy the display despite its shortcomings. As I've said before, the JU6700 did not meet my requirements. Returning it and trying the 7500 was a last ditch effort before trying again for 4K in 2016.

You know what's funny in the SONY thread here a guy said he needed a 4K under 50", I told him to steer clear of anything Sony under 55" an recommended him the Samsung 7500. Samsung is really the only TV display manufacturer making good 40" 4K TV's which is the ideal size as a desktop PC monitor.

 

[Nightingale007]

One could argue if it isn't evident in game (which in isn't to me) the it doesn't matter.

I agree, if you can't see it or if you do and it doesn't bother you then it's a moot point.
Believe me I very badly wanted the 7500, was even going to make the 50 min drive across the border to pick one up but I could not live with the PWM on the 50" model I tested and now I must purchase a larger TV since there is nothing in the 40" range good other than Samsung.

 

[Nightingale007]

Display choices are all about requirements and compromise.
I require 4K. I require around 38-42" of screen size. I require pixel response under 10ms so my eyes don't make me vomit. I require PWM to be tolerable enough that I don't vomit. I require a certain level of quality. I require a certain price range. I require a VA panel.
Guess what that leaves me? The 40JU7500. That's it. Period. Is it perfect? Heck no, in some ways it's right on the edge. Never seen a display yet that is perfect.
Show me another monitor that fits this right now. Can't. Maybe there will be better ones in 2016 - I hope so. But for now, this is where it's at and I really enjoy the display despite its shortcomings. As I've said before, the JU6700 did not meet my requirements. Returning it and trying the 7500 was a last ditch effort before trying again for 4K in 2016.

There is no other monitor under 50" that can compete with the 7100 or 7500

 

[jedolley]

The problem I have is that the anti-PWM camp fails to mention that the effects or motion blur don't necessarily affect a large % of people. The time that it has been mentioned and someone says they don't see it, they've been told to get their "eyes checked"...

I won't pretend to completely understand the science, but I do know that I am not PWM sensitive, and my brother is. I also know that my vision, since getting lasik several years ago, is vastly superior to his. This is not me saying that lasik solves this issue, but that in my very small sample size, PWM sensitivity has nothing to do with how good your vision is.

I love the [H] community, but have learned a long time ago that each sub forum has it's elitist (the audiophiles are the "worse" ), and you have to take each statement with a gain of salt and apply it to your situation.

 

[aadik]

You know what's funny in the SONY thread here a guy said he needed a 4K under 50", I told him to steer clear of anything Sony under 55" an recommended him the Samsung 7500. Samsung is really the only TV display manufacturer making good 40" 4K TV's which is the ideal size as a desktop PC monitor.

Yeah but that option is only for USA people EU smallest JU7500 48'' and costs right now about 1100€. Lets hope 2016 6xxx series are rebranded 2015 7xxx and with flicker free. Than its possible maybe to get it with 40'' screen size. Because 6xxx are only Samsung TV-s right now in the EU that have 40'' size, all other UHD Samsung screens are 48 or more. JU6xxx is rubbish and I'm not surprised if 2016 models 7xxx in EU aren't smaller than 48'' again.
<edit:Typos

 

[Nightingale007]

The problem I have is that the anti-PWM camp fails to mention that the effects or motion blur don't necessarily affect a large % of people. The time that it has been mentioned and someone says they don't see it, they've been told to get their "eyes checked"...

I won't pretend to completely understand the science, but I do know that I am not PWM sensitive, and my brother is. I also know that my vision, since getting lasik several years ago, is vastly superior to his. This is not me saying that lasik solves this issue, but that in my very small sample size, PWM sensitivity has nothing to do with how good your vision is.

I love the [H] community, but have learned a long time ago that each sub forum has it's elitist (the audiophiles are the "worse" ), and you have to take each statement with a gain of salt and apply it to your situation.

PWM sensitivity generally referred to the effects on eye fatigue in relation to desktop PC monitors and there usage for extended periods of time. When you are up close to the display the effects of PWM are more pronounced. That is why the more expensive quality PC displays are using DC dimming. The motion artifacts is just another side effect of PWM.

 

[Nightingale007]

Yeah but that option is only for USA people EU smallest JU7500 48'' and costs right now about 1100€. Lets hope 2016 6xxx series are rebranded 2015 7xxx and with flicker free. Than its possible maybe get it with 40'' screen size. Because 6xxx are only Samsung TV-s right now in the EU that have 40'' size all other UHD Samsung screens are 48 or more and JU6xxx is rubbish. And im not suprised if 2016 models 7xxx in EU aren't smaller than 48'' again.

I asked Samsung why they only stocked 50" and up here in Canada(so i'm guessing it's the same reason in EU) and they told me not enough of a market share to justify caring anything under 50" They said under 50" is a niche market and the majority if potential customers want minimum 50" and up with 4K.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I asked Samsung why they only stocked 50" and up here in Canada(so i'm guessing it's the same reason in EU) and they told me not enough of a market share to justify caring anything under 50" They said under 50" is a niche market and the majority if potential customers want minimum 50" and up with 4K.

Don't blame them.

Sub 50" for 4k is really a computer monitor marketz, and this is marketed as a TV. Too bad though.

Would a US market TV be compatible with European standards? I'd imagine that these days they can all display PAL right?

 

[aadik]

I was wrong we have 40'' ju7000 in EU but its still much worst than JU7500 and VA panels need to be curved.

 

[aadik]

Don't blame them.

Sub 50" for 4k is really a computer monitor marketz, and this is marketed as a TV. Too bad though.

Would a US market TV be compatible with European standards? I'd imagine that these days they can all display PAL right?

Does USA Samsung TV can work on DVB-T? If not then USA TV-s you cant use in EU to watch TV and taxes are very high if you plan to ship it to EU.

 

[Nightingale007]

I was wrong we have 40'' ju7000 in EU but its still much worst than JU7500 and VA panels need to be curved.

You want JU7100 and up. 7000 is an IPS type panel and only 60hz.

 

[aadik]

Are you sure?
http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/tv-audio-video/televisions
Seems like in EU 7000 is same like 7100 in USA (Same like EU JU6500/6600 is in USA JU6700) because there isn't 7100 option in UK Samsung homepage.

 

[Vapochilled]

You can't buy in EU 40'' JU7500 because they didn't made it for EU market I have heard even you can't buy it in CA and only in USA you can buy it and maybe Asia and South-America too.

OK.... That explains....
Its almost 360e difference between both curved 6500 and 7500.... And after all tgese discussions... Im wondering if i should spend 700 or 1070