New Samsung 4k for everyone.

Agent00F said:
Such a minor increase in lag only seems a concern for "l33t g4m3rz", and largely inconsequential for everyone else esp. desktop use.
Click to expand...

We're already above one frame of lag on these TVs, adding more lag will put us at nearly 3 frames behind.
No thanks, and I only game once a week.
 
Ergo 100ms of total network lag is basically inevitable and unstable at that thus online games are completely unplayable.

My advice is take note of "l33t g4m3rz".
 
Agent00F said:
Ergo 100ms of total network lag is basically inevitable and unstable at that thus online games are completely unplayable.

My advice is take note of "l33t g4m3rz".
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I agree that input lag is overblown. However, why spend an extra $100 plus an additional 30ms of lag, when you can have less lag and save $100?
 
Cyph said:
Source? Active Display Port to HDMI cables that doesn't even exist yet? Expect it to be expensive.
Click to expand...

I'm Feeling Lucky: http://www.newegg.com/Audio-Video-Converters/SubCategory/ID-3048

> Enough lag and even desktop mouse use becomes rather annoying

Complex games also have at least ~50-100ms inherent lag built in compared to reality, thus computer games in general are unplayable.

Displays with noticeably poor lag are ~>>100ms.
 
Agent00F said:
I'm Feeling Lucky: http://www.newegg.com/Audio-Video-Converters/SubCategory/ID-3048

> Enough lag and even desktop mouse use becomes rather annoying

Complex games also have at least ~50-100ms inherent lag built in compared to reality, thus computer games in general are unplayable.

Displays with noticeably poor lag are ~>>100ms.
Click to expand...

Noticeable lag (to humans) starts at about 100ms, but this is not just for the display, it includes all the lag from the time you move the mouse until that mouse movement is displayed on screen.

So, mouse processor lag, USB bus lag, PCI bus lag. Frame render time, post processing, and finally monitor lag. The total of these must be less than 100ms in order to not be noticeable.

So.e.of these are difficult to quantify. Good digital panels tend to be about 20ms (our tvs are ~24ms in game mode). Frame time at 60fps (without SLI) is ~17ms, so right there we have eaten up 41ms of our 100ms, and have 59ms left for everything else.

In games, some would argue that any noticeable lag at all is bad, so the total must be less than 100ms.

For casual games or desktop use we instead start talking about defining the amount of acceptable noticeable lag, and that's going to be different from person to person.

It would be interesting to set up a high speed camera with the mouse and screen in view, move the mouse and frame by frame count the time until you see movement on the screen, to capture the total system lag.
 
Honeydew said:
Yes. They are shipping me a new JS9000, with free shipping, to replace the defective one I have right now. My current display will be retrieved when they deliver the new unit, which means my downtime will be negligible. I'm just hoping the new display has a gentle journey and arrives in excellent condition.

It's my understanding they only charge the customer for shipping if you wish to return a fully-functional product. Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

Thanks. Look what you made me do!
oeGbCNA.jpg
 
anyone who has a calibrated 48" js9000 care to share their color settings? I want to have it look really good out of the box and am not the best a calibrating.
 
song414 said:
anyone who has a calibrated 48" js9000 care to share their color settings? I want to have it look really good out of the box and am not the best a calibrating.
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Well, you do realize that when it comes to calibration, each and every panel is slightly different. That is why calibration is necessary :p
 
Agent00F said:
My estimate above is conservative. Games themselves already have >100ms lag: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-lag-factor-article.

Again, completely unacceptable compared to playing outside. Outdoors Master Race.
Click to expand...

I just did a quick test, but I will have to redo it with a better camera angle as it was tough to see.


Loaded up RO2: HOS and did a couple of test shots.

It was a little difficult to see exactly when the finger hit the mouse button, but using educated guesses, I'd say the delay between the mouse input and the gun starting to recoil on screen was about 80ms.

This was with my screen in game mode (which we know is ~24ms) and in 2-way SLI (which adds lag) pinned to vsync at 60fps.

I will have to repeat with a better camera angle in order to confirm.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041706686 said:
I just did a quick test, but I will have to redo it with a better camera angle as it was tough to see.


Loaded up RO2: HOS and did a couple of test shots.

It was a little difficult to see exactly when the finger hit the mouse button, but using educated guesses, I'd say the delay between the mouse input and the gun starting to recoil on screen was about 80ms.

This was with my screen in game mode (which we know is ~24ms) and in 2-way SLI (which adds lag) pinned to vsync at 60fps.

I will have to repeat with a better camera angle in order to confirm.
Click to expand...

"using educated guesses"

You can also test your own reaction time at http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime to see how ub3r l33t it is.


> None of those are Display Port 1.2 to HDMI 2.0. Doesn't exist.

This was noted on the last page. Displayport to HDMI 1 didn't exist either before some point in time.
 
I'm nearing the end of final setup (before we move into a new house). Still plan on wall-mounting to get my eyes back up more to the top part of the screen, instead of the center, and pull it back toward the wall a little bit. Riser was built for more desk storage, but it may not be needed since I am moving my audio equipment to rackmount (currently sub power amp, crossovers, and EQ). Right now I also have my stereo amp sitting on top of the PC. Definitely liked the screen sitting on the tabletop, with its stock stand, more than the 4-5" boost it received with the riser.

I had to get new subs to keep up with the size of content on the screen (and get good frequency response down to 10Hz)! Two Klipsch RW-12d subs in the corners just didn't do it, so I built a pair of sealed 18" instead.

Still a WIP for making the subs fit with the table legs, under-desk mounted 8ft power strips, and under-desk cable management trays. I had to temporarily disconnect my side monitor as the PC's new location is too far for my old DVI cable.

subs_1.jpg

subs_2.jpg


The last couple weeks have been like Christmas - most exciting purchase and project I've had in many years. Wanting to do nothing during the week but get home from work.
 
Agent00F said:
Such a minor increase in lag only seems a concern for "l33t g4m3rz", and largely inconsequential for everyone else esp. desktop use.
Click to expand...

By all means go and enjoy your cheap laggy panel. The rest of us are here because we like what this thread is about - the Samsung TVs.
 
Wiz33 said:
A few of those adapter manufacturer have already announced pricing is expected to be in the $80-$100 range.
Click to expand...

"A few", where? These are all simple single chip solutions and there's no way basically the same chip iterated costs much more, and the previous chips were evidently cheap.

> By all means go and enjoy your cheap laggy panel. The rest of us are here because we like what this thread is about - the Samsung TVs.

Oh wow I thought iFans were bad.
 
vorpel said:
By all means go and enjoy your cheap laggy panel. The rest of us are here because we like what this thread is about - the Samsung TVs.
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Meh,

I consider these Samsung TV's to be a compromise. Something we have to put up with for being reasonably early 4k adopters.

They aren't bad, but they are still TV's, not monitors. A monitor version with proper monitor inputs and circuitry (and possibly even true 120hz) would be much more preferable to this.

Using these TV's as monitors is IMHO a bit like a hack. It's a reasonably good hack, but it is not without its downsides, and hopefully we won't live to regret it, with issues like image retention or anything like that down the road.
 
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I agree and disagree.

They are a compromise in the sense that we can't have 48 inches of 144Hz ultra low motion blur with the best possible image quality and the least possible input lag, sure. But no perfect monitor exists, and to that end, *every* monitor is a compromise of some sort. If you buy an ultra fast gaming display, you are giving up other things as well. No matter what display you buy, there will be another that does something (or some things) better.

I do agree that a true 120Hz or 144Hz monitor of equal size and image quality would be preferable from a gaming standpoint, but I don't care about "proper monitor inputs" (what is that, anyway? DP? Why is HDMI not proper?). And such a device would mean that you're giving up a really, REALLY impressive 4K TV in the process. Which may not matter to some, I realize that.

I don't know, man. Tonight I switched back to PC mode after using Game w/AMP and I'm once again in love with this display. Although I lost a bit of motion fluidity by turning off AMP, switching to PC mode brought the improvement in image quality and reduction in input lag that I had kind of forgotten about. So I'm as happy as a clam and do not consider the JS9000 (or JU7500 for that matter) a compromise at all. The *only* thing that I could wish for is a faster refresh rate with minimal input lag, but I just don't see that happening at this size any time soon so I'm perfectly content with what Samsung has given us this year. I can say with confidence that the 48JS9000 is the most impressive display that I have ever used, including thoroughbred PC monitors, and I've owned a great many.

I do not expect my opinion to represent that of everyone but I humbly submit it nonetheless.
 
All I want is AMP with only a 50ms or so penalty!
That would be enough compromise to hold me over for a few years ;)
 
I've read about "screen splitting" software before, but I'm not having any luck finding it.

I ordered the 48" 6700 today and I'm very accustomed to multiple monitors for productivity purpose so I'm looking for software that can split my display into 4 virtual monitors. I know it exists, I just can't find it.

Anyone else using something like this?

Thanks!
 
superbike81 said:
I've read about "screen splitting" software before, but I'm not having any luck finding it.

I ordered the 48" 6700 today and I'm very accustomed to multiple monitors for productivity purpose so I'm looking for software that can split my display into 4 virtual monitors. I know it exists, I just can't find it.

Anyone else using something like this?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Wait 30 days for Windows 10.
http://www.howtogeek.com/198230/how-to-use-snap-assist-and-2x2-snap-on-windows-10/
http://www.howtogeek.com/197625/how-to-use-virtual-desktops-in-windows-10/
 
Cyph said:
Wait 30 days for Windows 10.
http://www.howtogeek.com/198230/how-to-use-snap-assist-and-2x2-snap-on-windows-10/
http://www.howtogeek.com/197625/how-to-use-virtual-desktops-in-windows-10/
Click to expand...

That is nice that it is coming.

I wouldn't mind splitting my 4k screen into 4x 1080p screens, so I can snap windowsto the left and right of each and have 8 organized tiled windows on the screen.

In Linux Mint with Cinnamon, I get closer to this, as they take the snap left/snap right feature one step further, and allow you top left, bottom right, etc, so 4 different snaps. I feel at 4k resolution 8 snaps would be ideal.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041708071 said:
That is nice that it is coming.

I wouldn't mind splitting my 4k screen into 4x 1080p screens, so I can snap windowsto the left and right of each and have 8 organized tiled windows on the screen.

In Linux Mint with Cinnamon, I get closer to this, as they take the snap left/snap right feature one step further, and allow you top left, bottom right, etc, so 4 different snaps. I feel at 4k resolution 8 snaps would be ideal.
Click to expand...

I think Windows 10 also allow you to snap 2x2. You can divide the screen by 4 quadrants.
 
Ok, the question I have about the Windows 10 feature, does it allow you to do full screen video on one of those screens without taking over the whole monitor? I use the tiles features on Windows 8 right now but when I go full-screen video on anything it just covers the tiles.

From something I read a while ago I was under the impression that Win 10 will behave the same way, but that was months ago with an earlier build. I'd appreciate any clarification. Thanks!

There is a program called SplitView that I think may work, but even though it's still being updated, all of the reviews I find online are 5+ years old. I'd much prefer the Win10 feature if it actually works though.
 
superbike81 said:
I've read about "screen splitting" software before, but I'm not having any luck finding it.

I ordered the 48" 6700 today and I'm very accustomed to multiple monitors for productivity purpose so I'm looking for software that can split my display into 4 virtual monitors. I know it exists, I just can't find it.

Anyone else using something like this?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I use Mizage Divvy
http://mizage.com/windivvy/

Here's how my workspace looks:

vftSNOk.png
 
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Yeah I checked Divvy earlier today, doesn't seem any of the software out there can do what I want.

Basically I just want to be able to create four virtual 24" screens on my 48" TV, and be able to have one section go "full-screen" video while the other sections are still normal. I thought it would be fairly simple to do, but I guess not since none of the software I've found can do it.

I'm holding out hope that Windows 10 can do it with the update "snap" features, but I'm not optimistic. Thanks for the help everyone, this is a great thread and helped me to decide that the 48" was right for me.
 
WorldExclusive said:
I use Mizage Divvy
http://mizage.com/windivvy/

Here's how my workspace looks:

vftSNOk.png
Click to expand...

That's pretty nice. I like that.

The default desktop in Linux Mint - Cinnamon edition allows me to snap to quarters of my screen like this (either side with the black on top are my side monitors)

Click to embiggen:


I wouldn't mind being able to split each of the four quarters of my 4k screen in half, and snap to 8 smaller (but still acceptable) 960x1080 windows. I'll need to look into if there is something like Mizage Divvy for the Cinnamon desktop on linux.

I'd do it in windows, but all I use windows for is games, anyway, so it wouldn't make much sense.
 
imyourzero said:
I agree and disagree.

They are a compromise in the sense that we can't have 48 inches of 144Hz ultra low motion blur with the best possible image quality and the least possible input lag, sure. But no perfect monitor exists, and to that end, *every* monitor is a compromise of some sort. If you buy an ultra fast gaming display, you are giving up other things as well. No matter what display you buy, there will be another that does something (or some things) better.

I do agree that a true 120Hz or 144Hz monitor of equal size and image quality would be preferable from a gaming standpoint, but I don't care about "proper monitor inputs" (what is that, anyway? DP? Why is HDMI not proper?). And such a device would mean that you're giving up a really, REALLY impressive 4K TV in the process. Which may not matter to some, I realize that.

I don't know, man. Tonight I switched back to PC mode after using Game w/AMP and I'm once again in love with this display. Although I lost a bit of motion fluidity by turning off AMP, switching to PC mode brought the improvement in image quality and reduction in input lag that I had kind of forgotten about. So I'm as happy as a clam and do not consider the JS9000 (or JU7500 for that matter) a compromise at all. The *only* thing that I could wish for is a faster refresh rate with minimal input lag, but I just don't see that happening at this size any time soon so I'm perfectly content with what Samsung has given us this year. I can say with confidence that the 48JS9000 is the most impressive display that I have ever used, including thoroughbred PC monitors, and I've owned a great many.

I do not expect my opinion to represent that of everyone but I humbly submit it nonetheless.
Click to expand...

Using a TV as a monitor is in practice a compromise but a "good" monitor is significantly simpler to create since the only real criteria is that it maps the incoming input onto the pixels directly. If anything all the drawbacks are a side-effect of the image modification and whatnot TV's are expected to do.

A straightforward 4k DP display shouldn't cost much over the price of the panel, which are crashing down in price ever closer to 1080. Other than maybe adaptive refresh, there's practically no significant "features" monitors need outside of marketing slogans.
 
Agent00F said:
A straightforward 4k DP display shouldn't cost much over the price of the panel, which are crashing down in price ever closer to 1080. Other than maybe adaptive refresh, there's practically no significant "features" monitors need outside of marketing slogans.
Click to expand...


This is true, especially since displayport can communicate directly with panels, without any logic in between.
 
It's important to consider the utility of economies of scale when evaluating these VA displays relative to traditional PC monitors. In particular, we're purchasing into a market at a much lower price because of the high number of HDTV consumers. A PC display of comparable size and picture quality would be significantly more expensive - quite aside from the fact that it doesn't even exist right now.

I hardly see my JS9000 as any kind of a compromise. Even with the defective unit I'm currently using, it's objectively better than my Dell U3011 in almost every conceivable category. User applications will influence how one measures performance, of course, but I would posit the vast majority of PC users would find it difficult to return to a traditional monitor after using one of these VA panels for any reasonable length of time.
 
Those displays do exist in Korea where they're used in PC cafes. The "Wasabi Mango" 42 ips (likely LG panel) mentioned earlier is one example. The Crossover 44/404k is supposedly the same panel as the Philips 40 TV that's considered an alternative to the samsung, except a monitor version with DP and costs significantly less. So is the Seiki Pro 40, but that's overpriced.

Compromise here pertains to the extraneous SW/electronics bits, the panels themselves are generally fine.
 
Honeydew said:
I would posit the vast majority of PC users would find it difficult to return to a traditional monitor after using one of these VA panels for any reasonable length of time.
Click to expand...
Count me among that group. I hooked my Viewsonic VP2770 (IPS 1440p) to my MBP for a couple of days and quickly realized how bland/dull its picture looked compared to the retina screen and my 7500. I'm going to mount the 2770 on an arm and use it as a secondary for e-mail, messaging, Twitter, etc. There's no way I can use it as my main monitor, again.
 
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