New Samsung 4k for everyone.

Mako360 said:
What I mention, are the reasons why a 48" works for me. Doesn't work for you? Cool, no problem, they offer a 40". Wonderful to have choice isn't it? That way we can all be happy. :cool:
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Point in this remark was that into discussion on strictly technical issues you introduce arguments which are not related to it. Your arguments are fine but they can not be compared with technical arguments.

What it appears now is that Samsung TV is fine as computer monitor and compares very well with the genuine Philips 40" monitor. They even have similar problem with shadowing. The major difference inidcated until now is Samsung is more glossy. But Samsung is curved and that is what keeps me happy when seeing confirmation there is no way back from curved shape:).
 
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Ziran, are you using the 48" as a desktop monitor?

It looks amazing!
 
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Anyone know if putting it into pc mode makes it act like a pc monitor? For example will the tv turn off instead of saying no signal when a pc stops outputting a video signal?
 
wirk said:
Is shadowing resulting from the electronics or the panel type? If it is horizontal in Beng and vertical in Samsung it points to electronics for me?? I wonder what Samsung support would have to say about this, maybe firmware update could get rid of this??? How annoying is the shadowing? Is it very visible with bright windows on dark background?
?
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It is a very small issue. In normal usage you will probably never see it. It actually only shows up if you have a large patch of this checkerboard pattern that somehow throws the sharpening on the VA panels into a tizzy.

It is actually only visible on medium bright colored backgrounds. Black or white background will not see it.
 
munkle said:
Anyone know if putting it into pc mode makes it act like a pc monitor? For example will the tv turn off instead of saying no signal when a pc stops outputting a video signal?
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No it just shows the annoying message that there is no input on HDMI1 (by default). No idea if there is any option to change that.
 
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Ziran said:
No it just shows the annoying message that there is no input on HDMI1 (by default). No idea if there is any option to change that.
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I doubt you can change that, I use a 4k tv at my work so its not a big deal as I'm using it pretty much all day so I turn it off once for lunch and once for going home.

But at home I step away from my computer alot, I don't know that I would want to be turning it on and off a bunch, seems like it would get bothersome too me.
 
Sorry, was tired last night. Not refresh rate ... but latency, the latency is supposed to be amazing at 21.1 ms
 
Ziran said:
It is a very small issue. In normal usage you will probably never see it. It actually only shows up if you have a large patch of this checkerboard pattern that somehow throws the sharpening on the VA panels into a tizzy. It is actually only visible on medium bright colored backgrounds. Black or white background will not see it.
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Thanks for clarifying this. As far as I can see, there are no other visible artefacts (e.g motion related). How about the reproduction of colors and black levels in the monitor mode? I presume they are very good, just to be sure.
 
munkle said:
I doubt you can change that, I use a 4k tv at my work so its not a big deal as I'm using it pretty much all day so I turn it off once for lunch and once for going home.

But at home I step away from my computer alot, I don't know that I would want to be turning it on and off a bunch, seems like it would get bothersome too me.
Click to expand...

Use a small screen when you cant sit still.
I have a 27" when my pants are on fire and a projector when cooled down.
 
Ziran, sorry to bug you if you got to these issues already, but does the Samsung any of the gotchas the Phillips display does, like PWM or non-square (~1:1.02 I think) pixels?

At this point I'm torn between the 48" Samsung or the comparable upcoming IPS based LG 49UF7600.
 
I tried capturing the motion test results with camera but the exposure time must be too long since the pictures are not what I see with eyes.

I have re-ran the tests with IE (running with firefox was giving me flashing and stuttering that did not exist on IE). Also I ran bl3200pt at standard 60hz since running at overclocked 75Hz was producing significantly worse results (flashing 2nd line etc). The testing was done with the default motion settings you get when following the link.

On the JU7500 I see three (3) distinct lines per each moving "line". The leading line is about 50% brightness. The 2nd line is 100% brightness. The third (trailing) line is very faint and not as wide (about 10% brightness) all 3 lines are stable and not flashing. There is a distinct black line in between white lines that is about half as wide the white lines.

Lowering the brightness from default 12 (above results are for default of 12) makes the first two lines a bit more distinct but it does not add any additional lines. Increasing the back-light brightness up to maximum of 20 makes the first two lines merge together into a single thick white line and the third faint line is no longer visible.

These results would indicate the presence of PWM. I do not see any tilting noise etc.

For comparison I ran this test on the BL3200PT (PWM free). There is a single thick white line (about the width of the first two samsung lines together). There is a bit of moire pattern on it and what looks like jagged edge but its very slight. The line is stable and not flashing (at 60Hz).

As for pixels these are the close up pictures I took:

http://i.imgur.com/V6vUNIs.jpg

The pixels do look a bit strange. It looks as if each logical pixel was actually two separate physical pixels arranged vertically with a bit of spacing (black) in between.

The 32 inch 1440p BL3200PT and 48 inch 4k Samsung have identical PPI so relative pixel sizes are identical (i.e. moving window from one to the other the window remains physically the same size).
 
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thanks for looking into it, ziran. the split sub-pixel shape doesn't matter much (to me, anyway).

I was more curious about the macro dimensions of the screen being square, which I can't tell from the pictures.
Does the width:height length ratio of the viewable area match the resolution at an even 16:9, or is it perceptibly off like in the case of the Phillips and Seiki?
 
Can you use an imaging program to draw a perfect square approx 5 inches or so in the center of the screen, then physically measure it with a straight edge and give us the results?
 
wirk said:
Thanks for clarifying this. As far as I can see, there are no other visible artefacts (e.g motion related). How about the reproduction of colors and black levels in the monitor mode? I presume they are very good, just to be sure.
Click to expand...

I am just using standard settings the monitor came with (no calibration) and all the fancy stuff gets disabled in PC mode anyway. The colors looks excellent. The blacks themselves look as deep or better then BL3200PT

but

The monitor has a glossy finish so if you switch focus you will see yourself. This kinda spoils the deep black look.

Testing for black crush:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

At default settings the first box that is not black looking directly at it is 15 (yes fifteen). That is horribad. Changing the HDMI black level setting from Auto to Normal the first box I can see if 5 (five). That is on par with BL3200PT.

Changing the viewing angle to 45 degrees (looking at screen at 45 degree horizontal angle) I can see box 1 as distinct color. So this monitor suffers from black crush. The performance is very similar to BL3200PT. Which is consistent with a VA panel.
 
rufio said:
Can you use an imaging program to draw a perfect square approx 5 inches or so in the center of the screen, then physically measure it with a straight edge and give us the results?
Click to expand...

The monitor is curved in a horizontal direction so I do not think I can do good enough job measuring it to detect 2% difference. Somebody with a flat 7100 or 6500 would be in a better position to measure those.
 
Ziran said:
The monitor is curved in a horizontal direction so I do not think I can do good enough job measuring it to detect 2% difference. Somebody with a flat 7100 or 6500 would be in a better position to measure those.
Click to expand...

Right, forgot about the curve. Thanks for the other tests!
 
wirk said:
Point in this remark was that into discussion on strictly technical issues you introduce arguments which are not related to it. Your arguments are fine but they can not be compared with technical arguments.
Click to expand...

Yep, and your opinion on this thread for whatever reason being exclusively reserved for "technical aspects only" comparisons between the 40 and 48 are fine as well, absolutely. But as others have expressed, the decision between the 48 and 40 comes down to comfort as well, and trying to figure out the best fit for each setup (wall, desktop, other) is as good a purpose for the thread as your technical pursuit.

We'll both keep it up, helps the group both ways, you handle the technical side wirk, you're good at it! :D

WARNING: The following is only those interested in whether the 48 or 40 is the correct choice for their daily lives and the size impact of the two on a desktop and contains no technical information for those sensitive to non-technical words, letters, shapes, and writing: :cool:

I did some more 'simulations' between the two sizes at various view distances again, and truthfully the 48" continues to 'shrink' as you get used to the initial difference. The height changes isn't that dramatic if you've been using a large 16:10 display, like say a Dell 30", because you're moving to 16:9 and picking up a bit more width than height in the move versus if the 48" were a 16:10 ratio for whatever reason.

If you can have the view distance at say 38" from the screen or more, the 48" size on a desktop really works well. Not much of an adjustment surprisingly. But below that view distance it's really a judgment call, everyone is sensitive in their own way, it gets diecy below that (though Ziran mentioned gaming at a 24" distance, which is amazing...like a VR set I'd imagine at that distance lol).


Ziran said:
I tried capturing the motion test results with camera but the exposure time must be too long since the pictures are not what I see with eyes.

I have re-ran the tests with IE (running with firefox was giving me flashing and stuttering that did not exist on IE). Also I ran bl3200pt at standard 60hz since running at overclocked 75Hz was producing significantly worse results (flashing 2nd line etc). The testing was done with the default motion settings you get when following the link.

On the JU7500 I see three (3) distinct lines per each moving "line". The leading line is about 50% brightness. The 2nd line is 100% brightness. The third (trailing) line is very faint and not as wide (about 10% brightness) all 3 lines are stable and not flashing. There is a distinct black line in between white lines that is about half as wide the white lines.

Lowering the brightness from default 12 (above results are for default of 12) makes the first two lines a bit more distinct but it does not add any additional lines. Increasing the back-light brightness up to maximum of 20 makes the first two lines merge together into a single thick white line and the third faint line is no longer visible.

These results would indicate the presence of PWM. I do not see any tilting noise etc.

For comparison I ran this test on the BL3200PT (PWM free). There is a single thick white line (about the width of the first two samsung lines together). There is a bit of moire pattern on it and what looks like jagged edge but its very slight. The line is stable and not flashing (at 60Hz).

As for pixels these are the close up pictures I took:

http://i.imgur.com/V6vUNIs.jpg

The pixels do look a bit strange. It looks as if each logical pixel was actually two separate physical pixels arranged vertically with a bit of spacing (black) in between.

The 32 inch 1440p BL3200PT and 48 inch 4k Samsung have identical PPI so relative pixel sizes are identical (i.e. moving window from one to the other the window remains physically the same size).
Click to expand...

Excellent data, thanks again for all of this Ziran, greatly appreciated. How are you finding the overall brightness uniformity, ala edge-lit comparisons etc?

Cheers.
 
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Iserlohn said:
Does the 6700 have a glossy finish too?
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Apparently it does. Watch this youtube video

It's a JU6550 (and JU6580=white version), which is supposed to be a European version of JU6700.

The reflection is clearly visible all throughout the video (for instance at the 29th second).
It's a bit disappointing, but I wonder how distracting it actually is in a day to day use.
 
Went to Fry's today and picked up a 48" JU7500 because they didn't have the 40" in yet and they have a 30 day return policy with no restocking fees. I also picked up a 980 to drive it. I just finished setting everything up and I have to admit, I think 48" is too big for only being 3' away. The PPI is fine but you have to turn your head left and right too much IMO. I think the 40"is going to be the sweet spot. I was also really excited about the curve but now that I've got it in front of me, I'm not sure if I like it or not. I've only been using it for the past ~20 mins so I've still got a lot of testing and playing around to do.

 
I promise it will not only grow on you but shrink. Those icons are are small. Imagine 4k at 40". If you continue to have doubts I can almost certainly attribute that to your desk not being wide enough.

btw ..... it looks beautiful.

Nebraska Furniture Mart near me has 19 x 40" 6500's in stock for $829 each. I'm going to hold out for the curved which I still cannot find.
 
Just played Crysis 2 in 3D for the past couple hours at 4k. It's an older game so the 980 handled it just fine.

The 48" is immersive as all hell and pretty much fills up your entire field of vision. You do have to move your head a little bit but not too bad. This monitor is primarily for work (I'm a web developer) so general day to day use will ultimately decide whether it goes or stays. I've got 29 more days to decide. :p
 
Now I am really torn on which monitor to get. I was set on the Philips 40" but now I'm considering a Samsung 40".
 
Mako360 said:
If you can have the view distance at say 38" from the screen or more, the 48" size on a desktop really works well. Not much of an adjustment surprisingly. But below that view distance it's really a judgment call, everyone is sensitive in their own way, it gets diecy below that (though Ziran mentioned gaming at a 24" distance, which is amazing...like a VR set I'd imagine at that distance lol).
Click to expand...

Does this mean that monitor size depends only on the available space and, provided the space is available, the bigger monitor the better? For example, instead ot 48" display watched from the 38" distance, one could take a 96" display and hang it on the wall located at 76"?

To me it does not look so. Technically 48" or 96" provide the same resolution at their distances. But psychologically it is not the same, we have ingrained concept of private space around us and public space. 20" is surely in the private space, 38" looks not. Somwhere in-between private space ends. The biggest monitor should be still in the private space.
 
Darwin32 said:
Apparently it does. Watch this youtube video

It's a JU6550 (and JU6580=white version), which is supposed to be a European version of JU6700.

The reflection is clearly visible all throughout the video (for instance at the 29th second).
It's a bit disappointing, but I wonder how distracting it actually is in a day to day use.
Click to expand...

it doesn't look 100% glossy, but it's definitely more reflective than my Philips. Pity, the curve looks nice, would work well in desktop use.
 
Honestly the glossy is making me interested in this - glossy monitors for games still look by far the best for me. With no direct lighting behind or over me on my home setup glossy is exactly what I want. Still leary of 4k 4 4 4 with zero rebooting or resetting the connection after seeing the first round folks went through with Samsung chips on the 4 4 4 issue.

Might be worth trying if Amazon carries

Which of these newer Samsung models in the 40 inch and flat range ( don't like curved ) are 100% on the 4 4 4 at 60hz ?
 
Apparantly 6700.

But guys guys, how is the input lag and response times compared to monitors such as the philips 40"?
 
DarkStar02 said:
.... I have to admit, I think 48" is too big for only being 3' away. The PPI is fine but you have to turn your head left and right too much IMO. I think the 40"is going to be the sweet spot. I was also really excited about the curve but now that I've got it in front of me, I'm not sure if I like it or not. I've only been using it for the past ~20 mins so I've still got a lot of testing and playing around to do.
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Everbody note perfect (!) positioning of such big monitor - it touches the desktop reducing the impact of its height and fills visual space completely without clutter in the bottom. But it looks too high and the 40" indeed should be a sweet spot. Maybe your opinion on the curved is influenced by the monstrosity of the 48" and the curved 40" would be more accommodative.
 
DarkStar02 said:
.... I have to admit, I think 48" is too big for only being 3' away. The PPI is fine but you have to turn your head left and right too much IMO. I think the 40"is going to be the sweet spot. I was also really excited about the curve but now that I've got it in front of me, I'm not sure if I like it or not. I've only been using it for the past ~20 mins so I've still got a lot of testing and playing around to do.
Click to expand...

Everybody note perfect (!) positioning of such big monitor - it touches the desktop reducing the impact of its height and fills visual space completely without clutter at the bottom.

The 40" indeed should be a sweet spot. Maybe your opinion on the curved is influenced by the monstrosity of the 48" and with the 40" it would be more accommodative.
 
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Dahkoht said:
Honestly the glossy is making me interested in this - glossy monitors for games still look by far the best for me. With no direct lighting behind or over me on my home setup glossy is exactly what I want. Still leary of 4k 4 4 4 with zero rebooting or resetting the connection after seeing the first round folks went through with Samsung chips on the 4 4 4 issue.

Might be worth trying if Amazon carries

Which of these newer Samsung models in the 40 inch and flat range ( don't like curved ) are 100% on the 4 4 4 at 60hz ?
Click to expand...

The only issue I have is it seems the monitor likes to reset the the HDMI black level back to auto (from either normal or low) whenever the resolution is changed. Everything else stays the same and no issues.

There is an auto-off setting (if your input is off such as when you turn off the computer) but the minimum setting is 15 minutes. There is no instant off. Hopefully a software update will eventually remedy both of those.
 
wirk said:
Both series 7 and series 6 are confirmed here. You may wish to reconsider curved, those who tried say they are not looking back for flat.
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After using it for two days curved works very well for a computer monitor. That is typically because you sit directly in front of the monitor in the middle of it. Its like your own private IMAX

Incidentally I don't think curve is a good idea for Television because you watch it from the distance and typically do not sit exactly in the middle of the monitor.
 
DarkStar02 said:
Went to Fry's today and picked up a 48" JU7500 because they didn't have the 40" in yet and they have a 30 day return policy with no restocking fees. I also picked up a 980 to drive it. I just finished setting everything up and I have to admit, I think 48" is too big for only being 3' away. The PPI is fine but you have to turn your head left and right too much IMO. I think the 40"is going to be the sweet spot. I was also really excited about the curve but now that I've got it in front of me, I'm not sure if I like it or not. I've only been using it for the past ~20 mins so I've still got a lot of testing and playing around to do.
Click to expand...

Very nice, this is news we can use, real world desktop experience and comments on the curve experience at that size.

Mimics how I felt after trying that height with a 30" raised up to the same level after the first half hour, will be interested to hear what you think after a day or two.

Looks like you managed to get it to sit flush on the desk without the stand which lowers it 2" or so...or are your thoughts after using it with the stand in place?

Ziran said:
After using it for two days curved works very well for a computer monitor. That is typically because you sit directly in front of the monitor in the middle of it. Its like your own private IMAX
Click to expand...

Makes sense, what view distance did ultimately settle on?
 
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So I come from having surround 4 way 30" dell monitors in portrait mode. Came to 82" diagonal. I loved it.

Now I have one 32" acer b326hk 4k monitor. I have 2 weeks to return it for games, work, movies would this 48" (seems the same price) suffice. Or does it not work with 3d / have too high of input lag.

Just seems odd my dell was 1499 the Acer was 1k and this is 800?
 
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