New Samsung 4k for everyone.

Lateralus

More [H]uman than Human
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Updated my JS9000 to 1217.

So far it feels like lag in all modes went down. Maybe placebo, I'm not sure... might need to test. Anyone else update yet?!

Um, so I just updated, and holy cow does PC mode indeed feel faster. The slight sluggishness that I felt and described before seems to be gone now! Can anyone who is sensitive to lag test PC mode before and after this update and confirm what Nitemare and I are seeing (feeling)?

The lag feels MUCH closer to Game mode now, but with the full color fidelity of PC mode.

I'm a happy SOB right now, as the previous performance in PC mode was the one small gripe that I had with the JS9000. This is fantastic.
 

kabobi

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Officially confirmed no HDMI 2.0 for AMD. Not possible with firmware or addon, it's fundamentally incompatible with the hardware architecture.

What do you mean by "the hardware architecture"?

Is it just incompatible with Fiji (not a problem, can always buy Nvidia) or is it an inherent incompatibility with all HBM-based GPUs?

The latter is a significant issue for long-term value of these Samsungs. Because Nvidia will likely move to an HBM-like solution in the near future as well...
 

Zarathustra[H]

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What do you mean by "the hardware architecture"?

Is it just incompatible with Fiji (not a problem, can always buy Nvidia) or is it an inherent incompatibility with all HBM-based GPUs?

The latter is a significant issue for long-term value of these Samsungs. Because Nvidia will likely move to an HBM-like solution in the near future as well...

I doubt very much that there is anything about HBM that makes HDMI not work.

I suspect that output compatibility is built into the GPU itself in order to reduce lag. If they made it a bolt on design, you'd essentially be using an active adapter (albeit on board), and that would imply adding lag.

Thus, to make output native it has to be somehow integrated into the GPU.

In other words Fiji probably can't get it, but whatever Island is next (Coney Island? :p ) probably could.
 
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What do you mean by "the hardware architecture"?

Is it just incompatible with Fiji (not a problem, can always buy Nvidia) or is it an inherent incompatibility with all HBM-based GPUs?

The latter is a significant issue for long-term value of these Samsungs. Because Nvidia will likely move to an HBM-like solution in the near future as well...

I had to wait for the podcast to be saved for reviewing before I wanted to take a stab at what I recall hearing. Whatever the "display block" is, seems to be the limiting factor...

http://www.twitch.tv/thetechreport/b/670328467
Jump to 36:00...
"It is the case that the display block on this card hasn't changed substantially from the Tonga. As a result, HDMI 2.0 is not supported by this card."
 
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Not looking good... it seems the "display block" is synonymous with "GPU block", which would mean the new Fiji GPU itself isn't capable, and we'd have to look to yet the next generation GPU.

Of course this has nothing to do with HBM. Also noteworthy from this podcast is that even the new Fiji GPU can't touch the full capability of HBM memory bandwidth. It seems HBM will be around a long time before it's outgrown by future GPUs.
 

Wag

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Not a big deal to me. I'm running 3 OG Titans right now. If the Fury can't do HDMI 2.0 I'll just pick up 2 980tis. I'm tired of outputting 4:2:0@4k. Looks ugly.:(
 

Mako360

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Not looking good... it seems the "display block" is synonymous with "GPU block", which would mean the new Fiji GPU itself isn't capable, and we'd have to look to yet the next generation GPU.

Of course this has nothing to do with HBM. Also noteworthy from this podcast is that even the new Fiji GPU can't touch the full capability of HBM memory bandwidth. It seems HBM will be around a long time before it's outgrown by GPUs.

Wow, they can't even add HDMI 2.0 for the dual-gpu card due this fall. What a disaster.
 
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I wouldn't even consider 4:2:0 a viable option for desktop use. Two 980 Tis would be more than enough for anything 4K. It was also discussed in the podcast that as opposed to AMD, Nvidia developed their new line with the goal of excelling at efficiency, which I consider a plus for a daily workstation in my case.
 

Wag

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I will wait until next week just to confirm but right now it's looking like I will buy some 980Tis.
 
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I'd go for two as well, but I don't want to invest so much into something that's still stuck in the forever old 28nm process. It seems the 20nm process was never made available to video card manufacturers due to demand for smart phones. Next year Nvidia is expected to skip right to a 16nm process with the Pascal, leapfrogging the whole 20nm generation. That's when we can finally expect real gains instead of these silly increments. We've been stagnant for so long, Moore's law is bound to catch up in a big way. So I decided to go with just one 980 Ti for now.
 
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WorldExclusive

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I'd go for two as well, but I don't want to invest so much into something that's still stuck in the forever old 28nm process. It seems the 20nm process was never made available to video card manufacturers due to demand for smart phones. Next year Nvidia is expected to skip right to a 16nm process with the Pascal, leapfrogging the whole 20nm generation. That's when we can finally expect real gains instead of these silly increments. We've been stagnant for so long, Moore's law is bound to catch up in a big way. So I decided to go with just one 980 Ti for now.

Big Pascal will not come until Q42016/2017. That's a long time to go with one Ti.
 

Brahmzy

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Yeah, a single 980Ti isn't enough. My second one is in the mail right now. Killer cards, but no way one is even close to enough. I'm sure I'll be able to bury both cards too.
 

Cyph

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One 980Ti for me. I'll overclock that mofo to 1500 and turn off AA. Knowing I'll end up replacing with Pascal eventually, I can't make myself buy two. I can live with no AA so that's not a big deal to me. Plus, I don't really play competitive FPS so it doesn't bother me if I doesn't do a constant 60fps.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Damn you guys, don't buy my matching TI before my "1 per customer limit" 48 hour wait is up :p

SW4-SE-YavinOrbit3.jpg
 
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TDSlam720

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Yeah, a single 980Ti isn't enough. My second one is in the mail right now. Killer cards, but no way one is even close to enough. I'm sure I'll be able to bury both cards too.

Single is doable depending on your use. Doing SLI 970s right now which is roughly a 980ti /Tx performance. Witcher 3 ultra I get 30ish FPS. GTA no MSAA get 35-45 FPS. Anything else that isn't Crysis 3 is no worries. The custom Tis are getting quite a significant performance gain over reference as well. The customs do everything higher than the Fury X based on that chart AMD provided.
 

TDSlam720

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Um, so I just updated, and holy cow does PC mode indeed feel faster. The slight sluggishness that I felt and described before seems to be gone now! Can anyone who is sensitive to lag test PC mode before and after this update and confirm what Nitemare and I are seeing (feeling)?

The lag feels MUCH closer to Game mode now, but with the full color fidelity of PC mode.

I'm a happy SOB right now, as the previous performance in PC mode was the one small gripe that I had with the JS9000. This is fantastic.

I still feel the sluggishness, but it's improved and closer to Game mode. I can hit similar accuracy with PC mode as I can as game mode, but I for sure still feel the dragging/pulling. I'd probably notice it less if I wasn't directly comparing back and forth between PC and game mode, but I know I perform better in my games with game mode.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Single is doable depending on your use. Doing SLI 970s right now which is roughly a 980ti /Tx performance. Witcher 3 ultra I get 30ish FPS. GTA no MSAA get 35-45 FPS. Anything else that isn't Crysis 3 is no worries. The custom Tis are getting quite a significant performance gain over reference as well. The customs do everything higher than the Fury X based on that chart AMD provided.

My game du jour is still Red Orchestra 2: Heroers of Stalingrad (and has been for the last 4 years).

It's an older title based on the Unreal 3 Engine but is deceptive in how intense it is on the GPU due to the large outdoor maps. (It's also tough on the CPU due to semi-accurate bullet physics on 64 player servers...)

I currently play the game on my original 2013 Titan at 2560x1600. Most maps play OK (and by OK, I mean they are pinned to 60fps using dynamic vsync), but a couple of community maps crank up the polygon count significantly and drop into the 50s which I find unacceptable.

Now, 4K has roughly double the pixel count of 2560x1600:

(3840*2160) / (2560x1600) = 2.025

I know this is a poor metric, but it is the best I have, so if everything scales linearly, I'd expect to need 2.025x the GPU performance to match my current experience at 4k.

The ~50% improvement from going from a 2013 Titan to a 980TI just isn't going to cut it.

Now, if I had TWO 980 Ti's, in theoretical numbers, I'd be looking at 3x the GPU power I currently have, and life should be beautiful all the time, but we all know SLI doesn't scale perfectly, so I'm crossing my fingers.

I just hope I can live with the extra 25ms lag inherent in a two GPU AFR rendering pipeline.
 

Cyph

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Not to dissuade anyone from buying dual 980 TI's, but this is my reasoning http://www.maximumpc.com/nvidia-gtx-980-ti-2-way-sli-crushing-performance/.

SLI scaling is great on some games, bad in others. 143% for Witcher 3. 20% overclock boost and AA off will cover the same performance spectrum of 140%. There's also waiting for SLI drivers, which admittedly Nvidia is far superior to AMD. Yeah, if you are willing to get dual cards, get it. However, it's possible to get away with a single 980Ti custom card and a little graphics tweaking. I can only stomach upgrading one card each generation rather than two. To each their own.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Not to dissuade anyone from buying dual 980 TI's, but this is my reasoning http://www.maximumpc.com/nvidia-gtx-980-ti-2-way-sli-crushing-performance/.

SLI scaling is great on some games, bad in others. 143% for Witcher 3. 20% overclock boost and AA off will cover the same performance spectrum of 140%. There's also waiting for SLI drivers, which admittedly Nvidia is far superior to AMD. Yeah, if you are willing to get dual cards, get it. However, it's possible to get away with a single 980Ti custom card and a little graphics tweaking. I can only stomach upgrading one card each generation rather than two. To each their own.

You do make a good point. I've had horrendous experiences with dual GPU setups in the past (but granted, that was AMD, and I was playing new titles, now we are discussing Nvidia and - for me - older titles.

Sometimes I wonder if an investment in a Corsari HG10 N980 and a good AIO cooler for overclocking is a better one than an investment in a second GPU, but I can't find them for sale anywhere...

That, and the 980Ti has a disappointingly low TDP limit which will limit OC potential, even when well cooled.

Your 140% scaling figure was - admittedly - kind of cherry picked to illustrate your argument, though. Average scaling in this test at 4k resolutions was 172%, which would be MUCH harder, if not impossible to make up by OC:ing.
 

WorldExclusive

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Sorry, but I dismiss all Witcher 3 benches from Nvidia and AMD.
The visuals doesn't match the performance demands of that game. From my conclusion it's an unoptimized port, the reason why SLI/CF suffers.
 

Cyph

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Zarathustra[H];1041676867 said:
You do make a good point. I've had horrendous experiences with dual GPU setups in the past (but granted, that was AMD, and I was playing new titles, now we are discussing Nvidia and - for me - older titles.

Sometimes I wonder if an investment in a Corsari HG10 N980 and a good AIO cooler for overclocking is a better one than an investment in a second GPU, but I can't find them for sale anywhere...

That, and the 980Ti has a disappointingly low TDP limit which will limit OC potential, even when well cooled.

Your 140% scaling figure was - admittedly - kind of cherry picked to illustrate your argument, though. Average scaling in this test at 4k resolutions was 172%, which would be MUCH harder, if not impossible to make up by OC:ing.

I did cherry pick the Witcher 3 game. However, I didn't pick GTA V which is only 126% and Batman which is 121%. Shadow of Mordor 117%. Average of 8 tests at 4k is 148% and not 170%. If every game were 170% it may be more of a no brainier. Edit: I looked at the second chart not the first. Oops. My point stands that one card with a little tweaking could hit 140% vs 170% which admittedly at full Ultra everything does not hit 60 for GTA V or Witcher 3. Gotta lower the settings, on single or dual.

http://www.techpowerup.com/mobile/reviews/Gigabyte/GTX_980_Ti_G1_Gaming/33.html

G1 custom can hit 1512 without hitting its thermal limit of 84 degrees.
 
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Nenu

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Sorry, but I dismiss all Witcher 3 benches from Nvidia and AMD.
The visuals doesn't match the performance demands of that game. From my conclusion it's an unoptimized port, the reason why SLI/CF suffers.

Maybe you have the brightness too high.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I did cherry pick the Witcher 3 game. However, I didn't pick GTA V which is only 126% and Batman which is 121%. Shadow of Mordor 117%. Average of 8 tests at 4k is 148% and not 170%. If every game were 170% it may be more of a no brainier. Edit: I looked at the second chart not the first. Oops. My point stands that one card with a little tweaking could hit 140% vs 170% which admittedly at full Ultra everything does not hit 60 for GTA V or Witcher 3. Gotta lower the settings, on single or dual.

http://www.techpowerup.com/mobile/reviews/Gigabyte/GTX_980_Ti_G1_Gaming/33.html

G1 custom can hit 1512 without hitting its thermal limit of 84 degrees.


I completely missed the second chart. Minimum frame rate is - IMHO - even more important than average frame rate, and this chart really makes your point.

148% average scaling for minimum fps across 8 titles at 3840x2160
 

Masejoer

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Maybe you have the brightness too high.

Sarcasm? Witcher 3 visuals are just lacking all around, no matter the display settings or type. I haven't seen any good visual improvements in games in many years - the Witcher series isn't the only one. Adding a couple things such as ambient occlusion doesn't do anything but modify the lighting - environment details, water, particles, etc don't seem to get any improvements. Character models on PC games haven't seen big improvements in a decade.

It seems almost everything is console ports now days. I don't mind though, other than for performance. I just turn the graphic settings down if needed - graphics are only a small part of what makes a game. Same reason I've seen peoples' digital creations of photos or video at 1/3 a megapixel of detail be far more amazing than other content at 1080P or 20+ megapixels. The bad part is content in games is also pretty lacking/stagnant. It's rare to see something new. Now I usually only play games that are more arcade-like - something I can jump in and out of with friends every so often - few games out there can pull you in now days, even with the best of displays or any size. Playing horror games on the oculus rift is enjoyable though - the new style of play makes many games far more tolerable.
 

TDSlam720

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Sorry, but I dismiss all Witcher 3 benches from Nvidia and AMD.
The visuals doesn't match the performance demands of that game. From my conclusion it's an unoptimized port, the reason why SLI/CF suffers.

I thought I was the only one. Anytime I say that either Witcher 3 isn't graphically impressive or that it's a horrible port I take a bunch of heat for it. Just no way a PS4 shoud look visually similar to a PC game with Ultra settings unless you're trying to say PS4 is almost as powerful as a modern mid-high end PC or that it's a bad port.
 

TDSlam720

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I did cherry pick the Witcher 3 game. However, I didn't pick GTA V which is only 126% and Batman which is 121%. Shadow of Mordor 117%. Average of 8 tests at 4k is 148% and not 170%. If every game were 170% it may be more of a no brainier. Edit: I looked at the second chart not the first. Oops. My point stands that one card with a little tweaking could hit 140% vs 170% which admittedly at full Ultra everything does not hit 60 for GTA V or Witcher 3. Gotta lower the settings, on single or dual.

http://www.techpowerup.com/mobile/reviews/Gigabyte/GTX_980_Ti_G1_Gaming/33.html

G1 custom can hit 1512 without hitting its thermal limit of 84 degrees.

The original link you posted used 4XMSAA on all the tests, kind of hard to determine based on that. I guarantee if you take 4XMSAA off GTA V that scaling is going to up 20-50%
 

Nenu

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Sarcasm? Witcher 3 visuals are just lacking all around, no matter the display settings or type. I haven't seen any good visual improvements in games in many years - the Witcher series isn't the only one. Adding a couple things such as ambient occlusion doesn't do anything but modify the lighting - environment details, water, particles, etc don't seem to get any improvements. Character models on PC games haven't seen big improvements in a decade.

It seems almost everything is console ports now days. I don't mind though, other than for performance. I just turn the graphic settings down if needed - graphics are only a small part of what makes a game. Same reason I've seen peoples' digital creations of photos or video at 1/3 a megapixel of detail be far more amazing than other content at 1080P or 20+ megapixels. The bad part is content in games is also pretty lacking/stagnant. It's rare to see something new. Now I usually only play games that are more arcade-like - something I can jump in and out of with friends every so often - few games out there can pull you in now days, even with the best of displays or any size. Playing horror games on the oculus rift is enjoyable though - the new style of play makes many games far more tolerable.
Yeah a bit of sarcasm but also my experience :)

It looks bloody great here now.
I have a problem calibrating the Witcher 3 on my projector, Gamma is always too high even when on the lowest setting.
For a while I wasnt pleased with the graphics quality and a friend commented that it doesnt look good.
I turned the brightness down a few notches and it made a huge difference, looks fantastic.

I'm sorry it doesnt do it for you.
It might be worth trying a lower gamma/brightness?
 

Brahmzy

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I've had nothing but great luck with SLi. Been using it for a decade or more. If you run the highest res displays, you'll always need it. You can wait til Pascal all you want, but a single Pascal card won't cut it either. Just the way it is. When I made the decision to go 2160p over 1600p I took into account all of the GPU horsepower it'd take to drive it. I like AA and I don't play games @ 30FPS.
So SLi for me. Gotta pay to play!
 
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Dang I thought Pascal was due next year.

SLI gains also depends heavily on the motherboard/CPU configuration. With my X99 motherboard, if I install a CPU with 28 lanes, the 2nd card runs at only x8, and if I install a CPU with 40 lanes, the 2nd card runs at full x16.
 

WorldExclusive

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The original link you posted used 4XMSAA on all the tests, kind of hard to determine based on that. I guarantee if you take 4XMSAA off GTA V that scaling is going to up 20-50%

4xMSAA kills GPUs in 4K.
But, a Titan X OC can hang in there with 980 SLI. Pretty impressive and it's because scaling isn't that great.

Dang I thought Pascal was due next year.

Small pascal I would say yes. Big Pascal I would say no.
I think the smart customer will wait for the top card in 2017.
 

dpoverlord

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Would love to hear more on this, can anyone guide me here? I have 1 JS9500 65" and 1 JS900 55" I really do want to keep the JS9500, but 65" is just WAY too big.

So this leaves me with returning the 65" and staying with the JS9000, anyone able to help me figure out if I have a good monitor or not?

Sad to hear... but probably necessary due to the full array backlighting. That is the only difference, correct?

I'd actually really like to have full array backlighting. I use Smart LED - surely it will make darker areas look better in games, and especially in movies.

But is it worth the price difference? Probably not...

Zarathustra[H];1041675910 said:
I'd like to know this as well.

I was planning on filling the screen with an all white window and looking for dead pixels, followed by an all grey window looking for uniformity, but I am not sure of this is sufficient.

Any recommendations are very appreciated.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Well, that was an unexpected surprise!


I received my JS9000 early today, and am starting to set it up.


Can anyone point me to a good guide to configuring it for PC use? it's a lot less straight forward than I was picturing.

I've figured a bunch out by trial and error thus far. I figured out how to set UHD color mode, figured out where they hid game mode, and turned off that ANNOYING auto dimming feature.

It is worth noting I didn't get my 980ti yet, so I am doing all this testing using my old Titan, at 30hz without 4:4:4. Text quality is suffering.

I tried doing a input lag comparison using my Dell 2007 FP side monitor, and nearly scared myself when I measured the JU9000 67ms slower than the old Dell IPS panel, before I realized that this was likely in part due to scaling. Going to have to find a way to test lag without mirroring the displays...

Can anyone point me to where in the menu they hid the checking for latest TV firmware? I found something to check updates for Smart Control, but I am not even sure what that is. I'm assuming it is different from the TV firmware though, as my revision (A0531000) seems very different from everyone else's here.

Also wish there were a way to angle this thing down. I don't feel like I am sitting NEARLY high enough :p Hopefully this is something I will get used to.
 

vorpel

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Auto update is in the Support sub-menu (iirc).

How long do you have to wait for your 980Ti?
 

supermi

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Would love to hear more on this, can anyone guide me here? I have 1 JS9500 65" and 1 JS900 55" I really do want to keep the JS9500, but 65" is just WAY too big.

So this leaves me with returning the 65" and staying with the JS9000, anyone able to help me figure out if I have a good monitor or not?

Hey buddy!
Suoermi here from OCN!!! REPRESENTING HAHAHA

Just Google stuck pixel tester, open on run browser in F11 full screen , cycle through the colors, comb the screen for hot/stuck pixels.

If you are pressed for time try white screen for dark dead pixels and black screen for hot pixels.

If you wanna check backlight uniformity etc then use the black screen, and even grey screen at your desired brightess/backlight level.

Then it is up to your eyes whether it meets your quality expectations! :D
 

supermi

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Zarathustra[H];1041677613 said:
Well, that was an unexpected surprise!


I received my JS9000 early today, and am starting to set it up.


Can anyone point me to a good guide to configuring it for PC use? it's a lot less straight forward than I was picturing.

I've figured a bunch out by trial and error thus far. I figured out how to set UHD color mode, figured out where they hid game mode, and turned off that ANNOYING auto dimming feature.

It is worth noting I didn't get my 980ti yet, so I am doing all this testing using my old Titan, at 30hz without 4:4:4. Text quality is suffering.

I tried doing a input lag comparison using my Dell 2007 FP side monitor, and nearly scared myself when I measured the JU9000 67ms slower than the old Dell IPS panel, before I realized that this was likely in part due to scaling. Going to have to find a way to test lag without mirroring the displays...

Can anyone point me to where in the menu they hid the checking for latest TV firmware? I found something to check updates for Smart Control, but I am not even sure what that is. I'm assuming it is different from the TV firmware though, as my revision (A0531000) seems very different from everyone else's here.

Also wish there were a way to angle this thing down. I don't feel like I am sitting NEARLY high enough :p Hopefully this is something I will get used to.


Go down to the bottom choice in menues (on left hand side) then you will see listed something like update, select that and you will be given the option to check for updates as well as toggle auto update in and off and you will also be shown your firmware version which will likely be 1007 if right out of the box :)
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Auto update is in the Support sub-menu (iirc).

How long do you have to wait for your 980Ti?

Go down to the bottom choice in menues (on left hand side) then you will see listed something like update, select that and you will be given the option to check for updates as well as toggle auto update in and off and you will also be shown your firmware version which will likely be 1007 if right out of the box :)

It actually auto updated on me after I posted that.

I am now at 1217, and it DOES feel a lot more responsive than it was out of the box.

I should get my 980Ti (and my high bandwidth HDMI cable) tomorrow.

By 10:25pm tonight, my 48 hours since my order will have passed, and I can order my second 980 Ti. (they canceled my first order, I didn't notice that they had a 1 per customer limit)
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Whats amazing is, the whites on my Dell S-IPS side monitors seem yellow compared to the JS9000.

I've had to set it to a warmer white balance for them not to look stupid next to it :p
 
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