New Samsung 4k for everyone.

Masejoer

Gawd
Joined
Mar 11, 2001
Messages
698
Zarathustra[H];1041655906 said:
I just wish there were a version of these without speakers or any of that smart-TV nonsense.

I don't like paying for things I'll never use :p

You aren't - you're likely paying for something with much higher production numbers/economies of scale, letting you get MORE for your money than you would otherwise. Would rather pay $1000 for something that has what you want, plus more features, or $2000 for some other company's product that has what you want, but no extras? Even if both were $1000, getting more, but being able to turn the features off, still should have no drawbacks.
 

ed409

n00b
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
1
Oh boy, so ready to buy the JS9000 but I can only use it if the PWM is at least ~240hz.

I'm surprised I didn't see anyone mention it in this thread, but you can get a pretty good look at the PWM if you make the screen display something white and then you hold your hand a few inches away and wave it rapidly.

No PWM, your hand will look like a smooth blur. But if you have the TV brightness down some you will be able to see the strobe.

The difference between 120 and >=240 should be pretty clear so I hope that someone with both Samsungs might please check this for me. I would order it and check myself, but I just can't waste all that shipping.
 

SlippinJimmy

Weaksauce
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
104
I ended up taking back the 50 ju6500 and getting a 40. The 50" was nice for movies and games, but there was less strain on my eyes when viewing text on the 40 (I found it similar to my 27 1440p monitor even on the edges of the screen). It seems like it's easier to see what's going on in the periphery, which might be helpful for games. The biggest downside is that people might not want to sit so close to a small TV to watch movies/shows, but at least it'll be a nice solo gaming and web browsing experience. It was a hell of a lot cheaper than an acer predator too with a coupon and reward certificates.
 
Last edited:

greyx

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
503
Noticeable to who? You or me? I saw the differences immediately, but others didn't think it was that big a difference. So there you have it.

What differences you saw, between 6500 and 7100 ??
 

vorpel

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Messages
394
Oh boy, so ready to buy the JS9000 but I can only use it if the PWM is at least ~240hz.

I'm surprised I didn't see anyone mention it in this thread, but you can get a pretty good look at the PWM if you make the screen display something white and then you hold your hand a few inches away and wave it rapidly.

No PWM, your hand will look like a smooth blur. But if you have the TV brightness down some you will be able to see the strobe.

The difference between 120 and >=240 should be pretty clear so I hope that someone with both Samsungs might please check this for me. I would order it and check myself, but I just can't waste all that shipping.

Don't get stuck on a number if this is something you really would like. Give it a try - if it doesn't work out, then at least you know.
 

vorpel

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Messages
394
With that stand, how low can you get the bottom of the monitor to the desktop?

I'm assuming that your question was to me. With the ShopJimmy stand the 48" JU6700 can be lowered to 1.5" off the desktop. The 48" JS9000 can be lowered to 2.5" off the desktop. Both of these measurements are to the bottom of the bezel - not the viewable area.
 

Zarathustra[H]

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 29, 2000
Messages
33,859
Oh boy, so ready to buy the JS9000 but I can only use it if the PWM is at least ~240hz.

I'm surprised I didn't see anyone mention it in this thread, but you can get a pretty good look at the PWM if you make the screen display something white and then you hold your hand a few inches away and wave it rapidly.

No PWM, your hand will look like a smooth blur. But if you have the TV brightness down some you will be able to see the strobe.

I'm a big fan of micking actual use when testing things.

If you test something by waving your hand in front of it, this test is only relevant if you use your monitor by waving your hand in front of it :p

If you can't tell in normal use then it isn't a problem.

Keep in mind that fluorescent lighting flickers at 60hz, and we spend all day every day illuminated by it without a problem :p
 

Zarathustra[H]

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 29, 2000
Messages
33,859
You aren't - you're likely paying for something with much higher production numbers/economies of scale, letting you get MORE for your money than you would otherwise. Would rather pay $1000 for something that has what you want, plus more features, or $2000 for some other company's product that has what you want, but no extras? Even if both were $1000, getting more, but being able to turn the features off, still should have no drawbacks.

Fair point, but it assumes there wouldn't be a real market for monitor style version of these panels.

I guess my take is also, that extra features you don't use can detract from the whole. The same reason I prefer baerbones motherboards with only the essentials integrated on board, and the first thing I do is go into the bios and disable everything I won't be using.

Is there a way to completely disable the smart TV functions on these units?

What would be really cool would be a custom firmware that essentially turns it into a monitor and allows the entirety of the on board processor to be used for display purposes, reducing input lag.
 

Nenu

[H]ardened
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
20,078
Zarathustra[H];1041657832 said:
Keep in mind that fluorescent lighting flickers at 60hz, and we spend all day every day illuminated by it without a problem :p
Fluorescent lights flicker at twice the mains frequency.
Each cycle has 2 peaks.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2015
Messages
48
I'm assuming that your question was to me. With the ShopJimmy stand the 48" JU6700 can be lowered to 1.5" off the desktop. The 48" JS9000 can be lowered to 2.5" off the desktop. Both of these measurements are to the bottom of the bezel - not the viewable area.

Yes thank you. I'm looking to have it less than an inch somehow.
 

stewartjm

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 10, 2003
Messages
400
Zarathustra[H];1041657832 said:
Keep in mind that fluorescent lighting flickers at 60hz, and we spend all day every day illuminated by it without a problem :p

Most modern(since the 1990s) fluorescent lights have electronic ballists that operate at a frequency of 20kHz or higher. Though I well remember the days of 60Hz fluorescent lighting combined with 60Hz refresh rate CRTs. The headaches, after a few hours, were excruciating.
 

tegirinenashi

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Messages
140
...65" Toshiba 4k TV and we noticed that there was more depth to the content. The higher bitrate 1080p source we used the better the image. The difference was very noticeable - even family members have seen the difference. This is from 12-14' away.

Some will dismiss this out of hand citing some website or another "proving" that the human eye can't possibly see the difference. , or other "knowledgeable" source. You can almost always guarantee than most of the people saying this have never actually tried it themselves. Heck, we have seen that time and again in this thread where - just read back. The only reason we kept the Toshiba 4k is that our viewing experience got better.

Human eye anatomy is well known. The factors that affects its resolution abilities are understood even better. So, unless you have genetic mutation with 16K retina plus your eye pupil is twice large as normal, your resolution is one angular minute. So what assertion do you think sounds more plausible:
1. The centuries of optics progress and accumulated knowledge is wrong, or
2. You have placebo effect
?
 
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
882
JS8500 review is up. PC mode was measured around 37ms. Perhaps this applies to other models as well due to later firmware.
 
Last edited:

TDSlam720

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 30, 2014
Messages
366
Human eye anatomy is well known. The factors that affects its resolution abilities are understood even better. So, unless you have genetic mutation with 16K retina plus your eye pupil is twice large as normal, your resolution is one angular minute. So what assertion do you think sounds more plausible:
1. The centuries of optics progress and accumulated knowledge is wrong, or
2. You have placebo effect
?

I have to agree with Vorpel. Nerds will swear all day long by the distance/resolution thing, but it just doesn't always compute. Any image that has been recorded with more data ( pixels ) is going to be better looking than one with less data, ceteris paribus.

I don't care if you can't pick out the detail differences from a certain difference between a 720/1080 picture and a 4k one. The 4k one has more data and could have picked up more detail in the shot than a 1080 shot, therefore the picture will always be better. I'm sure there's information in a 4k shot that your brain picks up versus a 1080 shot that you wouldn't be able to isolate and point out. That doesn't mean you're not actually seeing it.
 

Zarathustra[H]

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 29, 2000
Messages
33,859
I have to agree with Vorpel. Nerds will swear all day long by the distance/resolution thing, but it just doesn't always compute. Any image that has been recorded with more data ( pixels ) is going to be better looking than one with less data, ceteris paribus.

I don't care if you can't pick out the detail differences from a certain difference between a 720/1080 picture and a 4k one. The 4k one has more data and could have picked up more detail in the shot than a 1080 shot, therefore the picture will always be better. I'm sure there's information in a 4k shot that your brain picks up versus a 1080 shot that you wouldn't be able to isolate and point out. That doesn't mean you're not actually seeing it.

Well, this is the "just in case" argument.

In other words, lets pump up that resolution just in case some little granule of it is perceptible.

That is great, as long as there are no downsides, which there are plenty.

At some point a line in the sand has to be drawn where we say, this is good enough. The marginal increase in cost (media/bandwidth/decoding hardware/new screens/etc) outweighs the increase in quality.

Otherwise we are just playing the fools to the consumer electronics business who have to come out with something new they can sell us every year.


Right now, my take is that with a big enough screen (40" or larger), at computer distances (~2.5ft), 4k makes a big difference and is great.

However, at normal viewing distance from a TV, 4k makes little sense at all, unless your screen is absolutely fricking HUGE.

I will likely get one of these curved Samsung 40" screens for my desktop in the next few months (unless something better and cheaper crops up in that time) but my 60" Panny Plasma in my livingroom is here to stay, at least until 60"+ OLED/AMOLED TV's sell for less than a grand.
 

TDSlam720

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 30, 2014
Messages
366
Zarathustra[H];1041658278 said:
Well, this is the "just in case" argument.

In other words, lets pump up that resolution just in case some little granule of it is perceptible.

That is great, as long as there are no downsides, which there are plenty.

At some point a line in the sand has to be drawn where we say, this is good enough. The marginal increase in cost (media/bandwidth/decoding hardware/new screens/etc) outweighs the increase in quality.

Otherwise we are just playing the fools to the consumer electronics business who have to come out with something new they can sell us every year.


Right now, my take is that with a big enough screen (40" or larger), at computer distances (~2.5ft), 4k makes a big difference and is great.

However, at normal viewing distance from a TV, 4k makes little sense at all, unless your screen is absolutely fricking HUGE.

I will likely get one of these curved Samsung 40" screens for my desktop in the next few months (unless something better and cheaper crops up in that time) but my 60" Panny Plasma in my livingroom is here to stay, at least until 60"+ OLED/AMOLED TV's sell for less than a grand.


Yeah I at least get your point that it's probably not worth the money upgrading your already amazing Panny Plasma. When factoring value into the equation then yes 4k TV probably useless for most people, but I don't like to pretend there isn't a difference.

Anyone know of a good PPI per distance calculator or any sort of quick formula for that sort of thing. I find it interesting that in the phone world 300PPI now days is basically dog shit, but TVs/monitors 100ish seem great to most people. 1080 60 inch is 37 PPI versus a 5 inch 1080 phones 440 ppi. At what distance does the 37 ppi TV have the same effective ppi as viewing the phone from about a foot?
 

bulbrook

n00b
Joined
Jun 4, 2015
Messages
32
Hmm. I am using HDMI 2 and noticed that option disappearing in the NVCP as well, but my text seems as sharp as ever. You noticed a difference in text quality between HDMI inputs 1 and 2? I'm at work but your post has me curious if there are in fact functional differences between the inputs.

Isolated the problem. hdmi 1 if you go into picture settings and turn on the Samsung High Color UCS (or something like that), the picture goes blank. turn it off and it works correctly. The downside is when it is off the nvidia control panel doesn't show the RCP and Full color option. Need to try the setting on other hdmi ports. Also have had two random issues where colors on screen go pink/purple. Need to figure out if this is a cable, one connect box, or signal issue. Will call samsung support again to see if they can fix.
 

Zarathustra[H]

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 29, 2000
Messages
33,859
Yeah I at least get your point that it's probably not worth the money upgrading your already amazing Panny Plasma. When factoring value into the equation then yes 4k TV probably useless for most people, but I don't like to pretend there isn't a difference.

Anyone know of a good PPI per distance calculator or any sort of quick formula for that sort of thing. I find it interesting that in the phone world 300PPI now days is basically dog shit, but TVs/monitors 100ish seem great to most people. 1080 60 inch is 37 PPI versus a 5 inch 1080 phones 440 ppi. At what distance does the 37 ppi TV have the same effective ppi as viewing the phone from about a foot?

I remember doing these calculations a while back, I'll see if I can find the link.

As I recall there were a lot of variables though, like - for instance - how large of a percentage of your field of view you feel the screen covering is adequate/ideal.

Some others have done the work based strictly on resolution though.

optimal-viewing-distance-television-graph-size.png



From a phone perspective, you DO hold your phone a lot closer to your face than you do a TV, and sometimes hold it even closer when looking at something small. This kind of behavior is difficult/unusual when it comes to a TV.

That being said, a lot of phone resolution is overkill these days. I count my Droid Turbo with its 565ppi 1440x2560 5.2" screen in this category. I probably would have been just as happy with a 1080x1920 screen in this size.
 

TDSlam720

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 30, 2014
Messages
366
Zarathustra[H];1041658612 said:
I remember doing these calculations a while back, I'll see if I can find the link.

As I recall there were a lot of variables though, like - for instance - how large of a percentage of your field of view you feel the screen covering is adequate/ideal.

Some others have done the work based strictly on resolution though.

optimal-viewing-distance-television-graph-size.png



From a phone perspective, you DO hold your phone a lot closer to your face than you do a TV, and sometimes hold it even closer when looking at something small. This kind of behavior is difficult/unusual when it comes to a TV.



That being said, a lot of phone resolution is overkill these days. I count my Droid Turbo with its 565ppi 1440x2560 5.2" screen in this category. I probably would have been just as happy with a 1080x1920 screen in this size.


Yeah yeah, that chart is tired. A 480P image isn't going to look as detailed as a 4k image even at 15+ ft.



What say you about this study?

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jsid.186/abstract
 

Cyph

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
812
Yeah yeah, that chart is tired. A 480P image isn't going to look as detailed as a 4k image even at 15+ ft.



What say you about this study?

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jsid.186/abstract

Good counterpoint. This is actually a study, the other chart is not.

I should also add that human vision is varied. 20/15 is good vision, and 20/20 is just merely normal. The best vision is 20/12. So "normal" does not cover the complete human spectrum of vision.
 

Brahmzy

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
4,958
That chart sucks bigtime. People musta been blind who made it.

PLEASE LET THAT STUPID CHART DIE.
 

vorpel

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Messages
394
Human eye anatomy is well known. The factors that affects its resolution abilities are understood even better. So, unless you have genetic mutation with 16K retina plus your eye pupil is twice large as normal, your resolution is one angular minute. So what assertion do you think sounds more plausible:
1. The centuries of optics progress and accumulated knowledge is wrong, or
2. You have placebo effect
?

Let me take a wild ass guess here... you don't have, nor have had a 4K TV in your house/apartment.

Spout numbers all you want and make very astute assertions on human eye anatomy ad nauseam.

I am not trying or needing to justify my purchase. I was responding to the OP (of this particular topic) that trying it out if they are truly interested is worth it instead of dismissing it out of hand based on "the numbers".

Do what you want, enjoy what you have. I do!
 

vorpel

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Messages
394
That chart sucks bigtime. People musta been blind who made it.

PLEASE LET THAT STUPID CHART DIE.

Brahmzy, then haters don't have "facts" to back them up. What ever will they do... Most likely not try things for themselves!
 

greyx

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
503
What would you recommend for 40" only as a pc monitor : curved or flat ?
I will never use it as a TV
Viewing distance, about 2 ½ feet
Thanks
 

vorpel

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Messages
394
What would you recommend for 40" only as a pc monitor : curved or flat ?
I will never use it as a TV
Viewing distance, about 2 ½ feet
Thanks

I think the general consensus has been that at 40" it is great either way. The curve is nice but not really needed - you see more benefit on the 48/55".

There is a cost difference, so unless you want to try the curve out to see if it is something you like, go for the flat and save a few bucks.
 

Lateralus

More [H]uman than Human
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
17,006
I'm assuming that your question was to me. With the ShopJimmy stand the 48" JU6700 can be lowered to 1.5" off the desktop. The 48" JS9000 can be lowered to 2.5" off the desktop. Both of these measurements are to the bottom of the bezel - not the viewable area.

Bah. Thanks for the information. I'd like to bring my JS9000 down a bit closer to the desk, but I just measured 3.5" from the bottom of the bezel to the desk so that stand would only give me another inch. If it was 2.5" from the desktop to the bottom of the viewable area, that would be sweet.

Guess I'll have to keep looking. I wonder if the Ergotron LX tall pole setup would be an option. Time to research..
 

vorpel

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Messages
394
Bah. Thanks for the information. I'd like to bring my JS9000 down a bit closer to the desk, but I just measured 3.5" from the bottom of the bezel to the desk so that stand would only give me another inch. If it was 2.5" from the desktop to the bottom of the viewable area, that would be sweet.

Guess I'll have to keep looking. I wonder if the Ergotron LX tall pole setup would be an option. Time to research..

Please reply with what you find. I'm fighting the height issue as well, and I need to make some permanent decisions soon so I can get my new monitor shelf made.

I'm also on the hunt for speaker stands that can come up from behind the 40" 6700 and hover right above the top of the screen.

P. S. I will double check that the stand on the JS9000 is at it's lowest possible when I get home tonight.
 

mi7chy

2[H]4U
Joined
May 22, 2013
Messages
3,985
If using primarily as a PC display any noticeable difference between 6500 and 7500 aside from flat/curve? How about materials? I assume they're both metallic looking plastic except one is dark vs silver? What are you getting more for almost double the price aside from flat/curve, 3D and 240Hz? Thanks
 
Last edited:

vorpel

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Messages
394
If using primarily as a PC display any noticeable difference between 6500 and 7500 aside from flat/curve? How about materials? I assume they're both metallic looking plastic except one is dark vs silver? What are you getting more for almost double the price aside from flat/curve, 3D and 240Hz? Thanks

Curve
3D
120Hz (actual) vs 60Hz
Glossy vs semi-gloss
One Connect Box on 7500 vs inputs on the back of the TV
 

vorpel

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Messages
394
Which settings are available under Game mode, from all those ??
If i'm using Game mode, does it mean 4:2:2 chroma ??

http://postimg.org/image/jua9evrlf/
@Vorpel, do you think that glossy panels looks better than semi gloss ?
Thank you

Colors on the glossy panel pop a bit more, but the difference isn't that great.

It's been said many times in this thread - you really can't go wrong with any of these displays, 6000/7000/8500/9000 series. If I had to give up the JS9000 and just go with the JU6700, I would still be happy and still think these Samsungs are the best for what I use the monitors for - gaming (non-competitive), application, video and TV.
 

Brahmzy

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
4,958
If using primarily as a PC display any noticeable difference between 6500 and 7500 aside from flat/curve? How about materials? I assume they're both metallic looking plastic except one is dark vs silver? What are you getting more for almost double the price aside from flat/curve, 3D and 240Hz? Thanks

The 7K series has better pixel response - less ghosting/blur. I've had both and that was well worth the small cost difference.
 
Top