Andrew_WOT
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How big is the IQ difference between Game and PC mode?
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New Samsung 4k for everyone.
- Thread starter seanclayton
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Lateralus
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Note that the following applies to the 6 and 7 series. I can't say with certainty that it applies to the 8 and 9 series because so far, I don't think anyone here has tested them.
Prior to firmware 1207, there was a very noticeable difference in image quality between PC and Game mode. Game mode was still usable, but you could tell pretty easily that you were sacrificing quality for input lag. For firmware 1207 and later, it's virtually identical.
For desktop/general Windows use, the biggest difference that I see is that red text is noticeably fuzzier. Everything else looks the same.
For gaming, I can no longer discern a difference since firmware 1207. See the following pictures that another member posted comparing the two modes:
PC mode (4:4:4) is first, game mode (4:2:2) is second.
In game mode below, the lines of the plane, such as the wings, appear smoother... it seems the reduced chroma in games actually acts as a form of anti-aliasing. It's very subtle, yet functional.
Just an update if anyone cares on my screen going black for a few seconds on 60hz 4k. After several HDMI cables, including a 1FTer, 3 video cards, driver re-installs, and windows 8.1 reinstall, I finally got 60hz stable at 4k. Windows 10 was the answer for me, I was desperate and hoping it would work and sure enough. I have no idea why it works. There must be something in my hardware configuration that's just ultra fussy, but it's working now so I'm happy.
Also Windows 10 is pretty nice so far. HiDPI looks great in Windows related stuff. It defaulted me to 300% and everything looked crispy a fuck. 300% almost looks more crisp than 125% . Non MS related text looked like shit at that level though.
But yeah, I'm sure no one cares, but hopefully it might help some pour soul with the same issue that's desperate, searching google.
Also Windows 10 is pretty nice so far. HiDPI looks great in Windows related stuff. It defaulted me to 300% and everything looked crispy a fuck. 300% almost looks more crisp than 125% . Non MS related text looked like shit at that level though.
But yeah, I'm sure no one cares, but hopefully it might help some pour soul with the same issue that's desperate, searching google.
Spacy9
Scotch is my Lord and Savior
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From some more reading I've done it sounds like it's an Nvidia issue with the 352.86 driver. I went back to the 350 driver and it's been working fine again. Hopefully the next Nvidia driver will fix the bug.
Lateralus
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Well that's cool. I can't believe that the 4' or 1' HDMI cable didn't resolve your issue. Myself and others had the same issue with the display going black at 4:4:4/60, and shorter/better cables worked for everyone except you.
Glad to hear that it's resolved, but I wonder what difference Windows 10 would make regarding the signal sent from the GPU to the monitor? Weird.If it is like the 7500 I have now it wont do more that 60hz at 1080p
Impressions vs the 7500 series, as a monitor and tv PLEASE!
TBH I still am, they are both compromises for me and I am choosing whether I want to use the 9000 48 as a monitor till a less compromised monitor/tv comes out then move it to a tv after vs using the Predator which is nice but not as big as I want.
If I go with the TV I want a 48 and the 9000 series as it will do better tv duty later... I think the tv makes my eyes a little fatigued PWM so if I get the TV I am thinking to do the PWM mod mentioned a while back (I am in WA state) so hope he can help out with instructions.
I might be getting a second TX next week a second Titan X would work well for the 4k, the 1440 is better with a single titan x.
So I am still not totally decided because they are both such good choices and both have such compromises. right now my biggest worry is the PWM I do not like tired eyes LOL
Well that's cool. I can't believe that the 4' or 1' HDMI cable didn't resolve your issue. Myself and others had the same issue with the display going black at 4:4:4/60, and shorter/better cables worked for everyone except you.
Yeah very bizarre.
Everything looking great now. Blacks not quite as black as the Seiki and probably the Phillips, but the colors and white point is 100x better so not a big deal. Blacks are still pretty black compared to most monitor/tvs. Input lag and blur is also way better.
PWM though... worst I've ever dealt with. Never really noticed PWM until this thing. It's awful on a pure white or black background. It's mentally trippy on black backgrounds. You'll have inky blacks, but they're not really black becasue you can see the white light flickering through them. On white backgrounds with black text it's a bit hard to focus. It's like I have to unfocus my eyes on when reading/writing text or else it's a bit mentally difficult to do. It doesnt really casue me fatigue or give me a headache it's just not relaxing. All text looks like its moving or bouncing a bit, and the flickering white lights kind of kill some of the immersion at times.
Hoping the guy a few pages back or someone else creates a PWM mod for dummies step by step for this thing.
Teenyman45
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Samsung is really big on featuring culling to differentiate market / price segmentation. On last year's HU series, all the good features were reserved for the 8XXX and 9XXX series, the 6XXX and 7XXX were gimped in some pretty heavy features. This year as well, clear motion of 240+ and the faster processors (which will probably be artificially necessary for a good gaming mode) are reserved for the better models.
Some of last year's models could do 60hz 4:4:4, though most of them apparently needed a BIOS update. I'm still running 7970s so I haven't tried out mine for 4K gaming yet. Full 4:4:4: should probably be more common this year, but I would expect Samsung to limit the firmware controlling the HDMI 2.0 ports on the lower end models to cap at something like 4:2:2 just to force people into a pricier model.
ok so I ended up RUNNING (driving like a madman) to frys and literally got there AS THEY CLOSED THE DOOR to return my 7500 (40) and get the 9000 48.
The smart remote seems to be broken, ARGGG but I am using the samsung remote app for my phone plus the physical controls.
on the 1007 firmware so the colors in the game mode SUCK but it is really low lag guys! WOW LIKE NICE
The PC more has GREAT colors but much more lag than game mode ... so I am gonna stick with this firmware till tomorrow at least HOPE others with the 9000 test the stock firmware then update and see if the game mode feels as low lag before I do
is the PWM the same? this feels easier on my eyes
got to get used to 48 as the PPI is lower it is not as crystal clear from the same distance and since I do not have the 40 with me now I can not compare side by side.
The smart remote seems to be broken, ARGGG but I am using the samsung remote app for my phone plus the physical controls.
on the 1007 firmware so the colors in the game mode SUCK but it is really low lag guys! WOW LIKE NICE
The PC more has GREAT colors but much more lag than game mode ... so I am gonna stick with this firmware till tomorrow at least HOPE others with the 9000 test the stock firmware then update and see if the game mode feels as low lag before I do
is the PWM the same? this feels easier on my eyes
got to get used to 48 as the PPI is lower it is not as crystal clear from the same distance and since I do not have the 40 with me now I can not compare side by side.
SlippinJimmy
Weaksauce
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Have most of you guys been using PC or game mode for PC gaming? I played through the Battlefield 3 campaign and a bit of online mode in PC mode. I wasn't bothered by display lag, but I did get my ass kicked online, though that is probably more due to being a rookie. I also tried Sega All-Stars Racing Transformed, and it looks excellent in 4k. It's amazing that it was available for a $1 at one point, and I think it's of comparable quality to Mario Kart 8.
coolhandm3
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I went out and got a Asus ROG Swift the other day at Micro Center to compare to the Samsung....
The ROG Swift is a TN panel, even though it is an 8 bit panel, the color and viewing angles are very poor compared to IPS or even a good VA like these Samsungs.
The only two thing that were nice about the ROG was 144hz for games that can take advantage of it and gsync. Gsync really is a game changer guys, no tearing, much less input lag and so smooth.
Problem is your still using a TN panel... no matter how smooth, no matter how little or no input lag... evyerthing looks subpar versus these Samsungs. Plus to me I see a huge difference between 4k native and 1440p native.
It all comes down to your priorities. If you want the absolute lowest lag and littel blur etc, a pc monitor is what your stuck with right now. If you value image quality first and foremost then these Samsungs are top notch. Again, if you dont feel the lag... dont go looking for it!!
Overall I would say the Saumsungs are way more engaging and engrossing experience then the ROG Swift. I would go Ju7500/ju6700/6500/7100 all day long over the pc monitors available right now.
I would agree with your recommendations! Gsync is a real shift (if only we had it on these larger panels
)The swift is a good tn but still a tn, which is why I bought an IPS the xb270hu from Acer also called the predator. It has less total lag than the swift a semi gloss vs matte finish which not a full gloss but pretty darn close. And the colors are really great! It takes the bad parts of the swift and does away with them. The only limit is the 27 inch size.
I agree the depth and size of these TVs is more engrossing, though the lack of tearing and smooth play even at 30-40fps in say the witcher with great colors to boot is a strong case for the predator.
The Samsung TV any of them is an easy choice for me over the swift, but Tue xb270hu well that is a much harder choice. Adding downscaling from say 4k to 1440p makes a big difference, it is the same PPI as the 40 Sammy (nearly) so once the game is processing it as 4k it becomes as clear as the Sammy but still loses the enguagment of the larger format the Sammie's bring.
Gsync IPS is an experience bro! So is the 9000 lol to be fair!
Yes the 4k still has more clarity esp being a full gloss (7500 , 9000).
I was really torn between the 7500 and the Predator. I will still compare the 9000 and predator but man I like the 9000 more than the 7500, feels like less motion blur and pmw bothers me less and I like the colors more...
I only used the 9000 for a few hours last night, I will use it more today and TBH, the Predator is gonna be a hard sale afterwards lol 27 inches noooooo lol.
The predator is in a different league than the swift you tried.
And the 9000 in my opinion is in a different league than the 7500.
Of course for engulfment by your surroundings nothing beats VR, speaking of which time to get some time in my DJ2
HEHEHE
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seanclayton
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I wonder how much better the 9000 is versus my ex 8500. Dat 4 extra cores doe.
Well the panels are the same, so as a monitor in game or PC mode likely not much besides being curved.
If you use the processing for something or if the one connect gets updated in a year or 2 for some VRR tech or something then there will ve more but at the moment not much. Just more $$ and curved for the monitor usage. Both SUHD panels
Edit:
Ooops still not awake, ex 8500? I thought you meant the JS8500 LOL
And that's the problem. I cannot do TN. No way no how. HATE looking at one. Managed to get all TNs out of my life - not about to let one back in it.
Yes TN suck , but that has nothing to do with the 1440p 144hz gsync options ...l there are two, 1 is TN (BLAH) and the other is IPS...
so yes none of us need to get a TN for anything again !!! YAY
update 48 inches feels better than 40 to me so far for desktop use, I DID NOT expect that LOL
Lateralus
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Just tried out the AMP feature on my UN48JU7500...wow!!! Much ghosting/blur reduction. And the input lag is very tolerable. I've not played any FPS yet, but so far games feel great. The lag increase isn't very noticeable to me, but the improvement in motion smoothness/clarity definitely is.
Curious about the 9xxx series but holy cow, these sets just get better and better.
Curious about the 9xxx series but holy cow, these sets just get better and better.
Just tried out the AMP feature on my UN48JU7500...wow!!! Much ghosting/blur reduction. And the input lag is very tolerable. I've not played any FPS yet, but so far games feel great. The lag increase isn't very noticeable to me, but the improvement in motion smoothness/clarity definitely is.
Curious about the 9xxx series but holy cow, these sets just get better and better.
AMP feature?
Lateralus
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Auto Motion Plus. It's Samsung's implementation of BFI (black frame insertion) to smooth motion. This is commonly known as the "soap opera effect" that started appearing on 120Hz LCD TVs several years ago. I've never really cared for the effect when viewing TV/movies, but from what I've seen so far, it works great with games and it's noticeable on the desktop, too. The 7500/7100 have an AMP rate of 240Hz (120Hz on the 6xxx series)
I'm the other way on this. I don't mind it for movies and TV but I don't like that anywhere else.
Black frame insertion is an option called LED motion plus. If your screen didn't darken, then it's not turned on. AMP by default is just frame interpolation creating 120 frames from 60 frames. It's very effective with the cost being input lag.
Oh that, yeah got that going my first say with the set
The soap opera effect I believe is due to frame interpolation and not just black frame insertion... You can choose between those options in the AMP settings.
Lol on mr missing the acrynom. I knew what you were talking about but hoped it was some other feature as the lag between that and gaming mode is noticeable for me (but at times I can go either way on which one I like better)
Where is the LED motion plus
in the same menus area as the AMP settings?BTW a full happy day with the 9000, eyes seem happier with this set. Could it be the pwm is different than the 7500 series, also loving the colors.
Still on stock firmware.
Anyone else puck up a 9000 or 8500 heck a 9500 for that matter?
Lateralus
More [H]uman than Human
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Again, thanks for the info/clarification. The screen is definitely darker (I assumed that was due to the insertion of black frames).
Where is the LED motion plus
Yep, when you select an AMP level of Custom (rather than Clear, Standard, or Smooth), LED Clear Motion option becomes enabled.
supermi said:
How would you describe the difference in image quality? Is it only worth it for TV duty, or PC/gaming use also?
Anxiously awaiting vorpel to get his 9000 and post impressions.
Again, thanks for the info/clarification. The screen is definitely darker (I assumed that was due to the insertion of black frames).
Yep, when you select an AMP level of Custom (rather than Clear, Standard, or Smooth), LED Clear Motion option becomes enabled.
How would you describe the difference in image quality? Is it only worth it for TV duty, or PC/gaming use also?
Anxiously awaiting vorpel to get his 9000 and post impressions.
Oh that's just the clear option ok then used that one too
.Well I have not used it for a TV yet, just a monitor.
So far like I have said it does not seem to irritate my eyes where the 7500 did (pwm) I believe.
Yes keep in mind this is also 48 vs the 40 I had and that is a difference too but better blacks and colors and whitrs and I believe there is less goasting or smearing in game and desktop even in PC as well as game modes than the 7500 has.
Also keep in mind I am on the 1007 firmware for the 9000 where I was up to date on the 7500.
I could have both the Predator and the 7500 for the price of this 9000 but I am not sure I will do that.
I can give more impressions later
@supermi
I picked up the 48" JS9000. Haven't had too much time to mess with it, but in comparison the the 48" JU6700 colors seem more vibrant. I really notice it when playing Diablo 3.
I haven't had a chance to do a side by side comparison, but I will this weekend or on my day off (Monday). I will also check out the TV features too.
I did pick up the HW-J6500 curved soundbar. Looks great and it will be hooked up tomorrow. I'm hoping to be wowed.
I picked up the 48" JS9000. Haven't had too much time to mess with it, but in comparison the the 48" JU6700 colors seem more vibrant. I really notice it when playing Diablo 3.
I haven't had a chance to do a side by side comparison, but I will this weekend or on my day off (Monday). I will also check out the TV features too.
I did pick up the HW-J6500 curved soundbar. Looks great and it will be hooked up tomorrow. I'm hoping to be wowed.
I have a hot pixel in the top right NOOOOOOO
I will need to bring it back to frys and buy from B&h tomorrow as B&h says their sale price ends on 30th, and frys well never gets stock so will be annoying to drive back and forth and waiting on them to get stock DARN.
backlight is as even as I could expect from an edge lit and no other issues, WHY did it get this hot pixel
I will need to bring it back to frys and buy from B&h tomorrow as B&h says their sale price ends on 30th, and frys well never gets stock so will be annoying to drive back and forth and waiting on them to get stock DARN.
backlight is as even as I could expect from an edge lit and no other issues, WHY did it get this hot pixel
what's the european version for JS9000 ?
would you recommend to send back the Philips bdm4065uc and get a Samsung?
How is the contrast and black, compared to Philips?
Much worse?
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I don't have, and have not had the Philips, so can't help you there.
Read through the thread - it is a personal choice as both have their pluses and minuses.
Zero - are you going to spam this thread for 8 pages again like you did before you bought the Phillips? Just go freakin buy or look at the Samsungs if you're interested in them. Nobody has anything else to tell you then what's already here. Sheesh. If you don't like it, send it back. Be a big boy.
People are giving you realistic advice. However, I think you're asking to be steered toward a decision. In that case, I'll help you. The Samsung is fantastic and it displays great colors. If you are going to choose the quantum dot displays, it's color is going to be even better, the best on any monitor. The contrast is going to be excellent, displaying contrasting colors properly. There won't be weird contrasting color fringes or a black hole when it display solid colors. It uses square pixels as well. The glossy screen makes the color pop, just make sure you are not close to a bright window.
Don't buy into the static contrast ratio because the Samsung has better perceived black contrast than the BL3200PT, even though they are supposedly equal. With the glossy panel and the ability to turn off backlight, solid black is extremely deep. Color and clarity is just better than most computer monitors except for IPS which lets out tons of light but suffers from IPS glow. Compared to other VA, color and clarity should be better because of the superior processing on these units coupled with its glossy screen. Also, watching movies and videos on these will be a much better than monitors because of its video processor.
Based on your previous questions, you value color and clarity over processing lag. These TVs are made for you. Go for it.
SilverSliver
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Got my JU6700. Am pleased with it. Only one potential problem I am noticing. On white screens, the center portion of the display is fine, but there are two oval shaped almost reddish 'smudges' where the white turns off color to the left and right of center.
That is exactly what I'm getting.. But I manged to solve this problem almost completely.
Go to menu/picture/advanced settings/white balance/2 point
and set R-Gain to -50
Try if it helps.
Sorry, i didn't mean to spam this thread
SilverSliver
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I didn't go quite down to -50 but this helps. -50 gets pretty blue for me. Thanks.
I do have the Samsung - several in fact. What I don't have is a Philips so I can't compare them.
As Cyph said - these are awesome displays. Give it a try.
I have a hot pixel in the top right NOOOOOOO
I will need to bring it back to frys and buy from B&h tomorrow as B&h says their sale price ends on 30th, and frys well never gets stock so will be annoying to drive back and forth and waiting on them to get stock DARN.
backlight is as even as I could expect from an edge lit and no other issues, WHY did it get this hot pixel
What is the sale price? Right now on B&H the 48" JS9000 is $1,997.99 , same as everywhere else.
SilverSliver
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Can anyone explain how to route sound from the Smart Hub apps into my Xonar Phoebus soundcard so I can listen through my headphones or PC speakers? I tried running an optical cable with a spdif adapter into the line in portion of my card with no success. Display is hooked up using an HDMI cable.