New Samsung 4k for everyone.

Joined
Apr 14, 2015
Messages
6
My UA50JU6400 has been delayed due to freight issues twice over here in Australia :mad:

I ordered the TV on the 24/04 and it was due on the 30/04 however it was dropped during transit from the supplier to the retail shop.

Another was ordered straight away (props to the retailer) and it has gotten stuck in transit between flood zones :(

I should hopefully have a TV to try out in the next few days.

I ended up getting the TV through a friend for $1800 instead of $2200 so i can afford to wait a little longer for it as i have already waited a few years for a good 4K TV/Monitor to exist :D
 

Nitemare3219

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
206
Is that with uhd on with dvi/pc? How many frames of lag are we looking at in 4k?

Another interesting development... when I went to confirm DVI PC mode with lower lag at the end of testing all 3 modes - DVI PC (first time), game mode, and PC mode (all with RGB and YcBcr444) - the lag got as bad as all the other modes!

I restarted the TV and tested again, this time in PC mode with full RGB color and UHD on - the lag was as low as DVI PC was the first time.

This means either of two things... the TV gets laggy over time from being on, OR, switching inputs causes the TV to lag until it's restarted. I'm betting firmware 1210 is good to go as long as you restart after switching inputs. I've been on PC mode for about 15 minutes now and it has not gotten any laggier. I'll check again after it's been on for awhile.
 

coolhandm3

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
386
Another interesting development... when I went to confirm DVI PC mode with lower lag at the end of testing all 3 modes - DVI PC (first time), game mode, and PC mode (all with RGB and YcBcr444) - the lag got as bad as all the other modes!

I restarted the TV and tested again, this time in PC mode with full RGB color and UHD on - the lag was as low as DVI PC was the first time.

This means either of two things... the TV gets laggy over time from being on, OR, switching inputs causes the TV to lag until it's restarted. I'm betting firmware 1210 is good to go as long as you restart after switching inputs. I've been on PC mode for about 15 minutes now and it has not gotten any laggier. I'll check again after it's been on for awhile.


Just so I understand, dvi/pc, pc and game mode all are now the same? The only hitch is if you change inputs you need to turn the tv off and on again?
 

Nitemare3219

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
206
Just so I understand, dvi/pc, pc and game mode all are now the same? The only hitch is if you change inputs you need to turn the tv off and on again?

To me, this appears to be the case. I spent a good hour taking pictures of different modes and such... only to come to the conclusion that they are basically indistinguishable to me (at 4K and UHD color on). Switching input creates lag right away. After using the display for awhile, it seems to be a little laggier too... but this could just be my imagination. At any rate, firmware 1210 seems to be the best so far. YcBcr444 also shouldn't really be different than RGB. I feel like there is a hair less lag with it, so I am using that setting. A color comparison with game mode will happen sometime early this week.
 

coolhandm3

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
386
To me, this appears to be the case. I spent a good hour taking pictures of different modes and such... only to come to the conclusion that they are basically indistinguishable to me (at 4K and UHD color on). Switching input creates lag right away. After using the display for awhile, it seems to be a little laggier too... but this could just be my imagination. At any rate, firmware 1210 seems to be the best so far. YcBcr444 also shouldn't really be different than RGB. I feel like there is a hair less lag with it, so I am using that setting. A color comparison with game mode will happen sometime early this week.


Thanks for doing these tests!

How many frames are we looking at?

All 3 modes are the same now for lag?

Basically if yournot changing inputs or input types then the lag should stay the same right?

Do you have instant on in the general settings? I wonder with it off would change anything...
 

Tyler-Durden

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
2,302
I've never noticed lag on any of the LCD monitors I've used, even with my old Dell 3008WFP which was reputed to have excruciating lag. I desperately hope my gift of not noticing lag continues with the 7500 I ordered, yesterday.
 

Brahmzy

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
4,958
I notice no lag with my 7500. I must not be uber-sensitive to any lag....
 

CyJackX

n00b
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
50
Having trouble deciphering a 4:4:4 issue, or whether there even is an issue. As far as I can tell I'm passing the 4:4:4 test, it passes the test but slightly blurry? It does not look like the failure version of the 4:4:4 test.

3AK4Y9g.jpg

On the right is with UHD mode turned OFF, and on the left it is ON. It passes but is still a little...off?

Also just wanted to show that 0 sharpness on PC mode introduces no sharpening artifacts and thus is most natural. Artifacts most noticeable around the logos.
OVtjw28.jpg
 

Nitemare3219

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
206
Thanks for doing these tests!

How many frames are we looking at?

All 3 modes are the same now for lag?

Basically if yournot changing inputs or input types then the lag should stay the same right?

Do you have instant on in the general settings? I wonder with it off would change anything...

I do have instant-on enabled.

The lag seems to be about the same as before - 1.5~ frames behind the Catleap. When the lag is not present... it almost seems variable. Some images, the Catleap and 7500 look equal. Others, it is less than a frame behind. I don't know if that's something the TV is doing or the PC. I don't think it's the camera because some of these images where it is less than a frame behind, the Catleap begins to illuminate the split block before the 7500 does meaning it's not an exposure issue. Although, I suppose it could also be an issue of pixel response time itself! Hard to say, but considering it is a VA panel... that is a possibility.

I just got my 48". It's still in the box but I'll be taking it out shortly.

I've never noticed lag on any of the LCD monitors I've used, even with my old Dell 3008WFP which was reputed to have excruciating lag. I desperately hope my gift of not noticing lag continues with the 7500 I ordered, yesterday.

Stand by and wait for me to test the boxed firmware. If it's as good as I think it is, just don't update the TV!
 
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Nitemare3219

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
206
Also just wanted to show that 0 sharpness on PC mode introduces no sharpening artifacts and thus is most natural. Artifacts most noticeable around the logos.

You're right, those aren't sharpening artifacts, they're softening artifacts! Trust me, unless it's somehow different on your TV (different series?) 50 on PC mode SHOULD be default with no sharpness added compared to any other display. 0 sharpness on PC mode looks like ass and is a muddy, blurry MESS. Maybe it needs to be a little less than 50... I'll test this too, but I guarantee 0 is not correct.
 

CyJackX

n00b
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
50
You're right, those aren't sharpening artifacts, they're softening artifacts! Trust me, unless it's somehow different on your TV (different series?) 50 on PC mode SHOULD be default with no sharpness added compared to any other display. 0 sharpness on PC mode looks like ass and is a muddy, blurry MESS. Maybe it needs to be a little less than 50... I'll test this too, but I guarantee 0 is not correct.

I need to see some manufacturer's text for this guarantee! I can see sharpening artifacts down to 10, and with sharpness at 50 I feel it is a poorer image because it feels...visually cluttered? Oversharpened? I notice the harder edges that don't naturally exist in the image.

And I find it incredibly hard to believe that there'd be a "softening" function. 40JU6500 for reference.

Edit: Also, I probably should have used a tripod for the comparisons...don't let the moire fool you! I actually shot the images a little out of focus in order to avoid the pattern but it still shows up in the "50" picture. The artifacts are those lighter splotches surrounding the logos
 
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Mako360

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
336
You're right, those aren't sharpening artifacts, they're softening artifacts! Trust me, unless it's somehow different on your TV (different series?) 50 on PC mode SHOULD be default with no sharpness added compared to any other display. 0 sharpness on PC mode looks like ass and is a muddy, blurry MESS. Maybe it needs to be a little less than 50... I'll test this too, but I guarantee 0 is not correct.

Good job CyJackX :rolleyes:

Man, the past week we are getting some downright imbecilic posts about these displays, from fools claiming lag is "identical" between PC and Game mode, to a misunderstanding of WTF sharpness actually IS.

Disheartening.

If you don't know what the FK you're talking about, don't speak. It's very easy.

Back to Alien: Isolation, at 4k, with no lag that a human can feel, at 48". Bliss.

/thread
 

crb806

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
82
I just got my JU7100 and I can't figure out how to get it in to PC mode. I've checked through all the menus. Can someone help me out?

Also any recommended settings for PC usage?

anything that helps with PWM(I'm not really sure if I understand what it is, but asking anyway)
 
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Cyph

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
812
I do have instant-on enabled.

The lag seems to be about the same as before - 1.5~ frames behind the Catleap. When the lag is not present... it almost seems variable. Some images, the Catleap and 7500 look equal. Others, it is less than a frame behind. I don't know if that's something the TV is doing or the PC. I don't think it's the camera because some of these images where it is less than a frame behind, the Catleap begins to illuminate the split block before the 7500 does meaning it's not an exposure issue. Although, I suppose it could also be an issue of pixel response time itself! Hard to say, but considering it is a VA panel... that is a possibility.

Even though these are 120hz monitors, the frames only update once every 60 seconds. So you're only getting a frame update every 16.67ms. The camera method is really an inexact method. If the CatLeap is 120hz, then it gets to update every 8.33ms. It's always going to be ahead of the Samsung based on that alone. Are you testing both at 60hz?

If it's that difficult to ascertain if there's a lag, perhaps it's not an issue? It passes the "feeling" test, and even the camera test is not conclusive. I'd chalk it up to no issue if I have to pick one or the other.
 

Cyph

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
812
I just got my JU7100 and I can't figure out how to get it in to PC mode. I've checked through all the menus. Can someone help me out?

Also any recommended settings for PC usage?

anything that helps with PWM(I'm not really sure if I understand what it is, but asking anyway)


Source -> Device Type -> Change it to PC or PC/DVI.

If you don't know what PWM, then don't worry about it. The PWM scare is the greatest marketing gimmick of the 21st century. I'm not a denier of PWM as I do believe it's real, but 99% of people in the world should have no issues with it. Samsung wouldn't be selling as many TV's as they currently do if that were the case.
 

Nitemare3219

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
206
I need to see some manufacturer's text for this guarantee! I can see sharpening artifacts down to 10, and with sharpness at 50 I feel it is a poorer image because it feels...visually cluttered? Oversharpened? I notice the harder edges that don't naturally exist in the image.

And I find it incredibly hard to believe that there'd be a "softening" function. 40JU6500 for reference.

Edit: Also, I probably should have used a tripod for the comparisons...don't let the moire fool you! I actually shot the images a little out of focus in order to avoid the pattern but it still shows up in the "50" picture. The artifacts are those lighter splotches surrounding the logos

Perhaps that is what I saw. I do see the artifacts at 50 that you're talking about - very strange. I haven't noticed this on my display but I haven't looked that closely. I will soon.

Good job CyJackX :rolleyes:

Man, the past week we are getting some downright imbecilic posts about these displays, from fools claiming lag is "identical" between PC and Game mode, to a misunderstanding of WTF sharpness actually IS.

Disheartening.

If you don't know what the FK you're talking about, don't speak. It's very easy.

Back to Alien: Isolation, at 4k, with no lag that a human can feel, at 48". Bliss.

/thread

You're wrong my friend. Say what you want but I can tell a difference as can others.

Even though these are 120hz monitors, the frames only update once every 60 seconds. So you're only getting a frame update every 16.67ms. The camera method is really an inexact method. If the CatLeap is 120hz, then it gets to update every 8.33ms. It's always going to be ahead of the Samsung based on that alone. Are you testing both at 60hz?

If it's that difficult to ascertain if there's a lag, perhaps it's not an issue? It passes the "feeling" test, and even the camera test is not conclusive. I'd chalk it up to no issue if I have to pick one or the other.

Both monitors are running at 60 Hz. Obviously 120 Hz would make the Catleap way ahead. But they're at 60 Hz...

Guys, I have the 48" hooked up running version 1003 firmware... as of right now I highly recommend nobody update their TV's from the factory firmware. The ghosting issue is still here, but it feels 10x faster than my 40" running the latest firmware, and this is in PC mode with UHD color on! It is just as fast as I remember the 40" when I pulled it out of the box. I will clone the displays and run tests to prove this to you all. Even the menu navigation is 10x faster. I can't make this stuff up guys...
 

chrono69

n00b
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3
I have a un40ju6700 that I'm mounting with a universal ultra thin mount. pretty basic stuff.

The tv came with these samsung 'holder rings', that while not mentioned in the manual at all, according to the internet, appear to be meant for use with 3rd party mounts (which is what I have).

The holder ring plastic packaging has a depiction as to how to use these things but the description they give is not that clear -you can't really tell exactly which way the holder ring goes. I think I'm going to ditch these stupid things and just use the spacers to fill the space (and some washers on the lower mounts because they are recessed more...)

Here are the 2 ways these holder rings can go. Neither look very correct, but the first one more closely follows the packaging deception of how to use them..Still doesn't seem right.

iVYuQ92.jpg

XK1Tmve.jpg
 

coolhandm3

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
386
Guys, I have the 48" hooked up running version 1003 firmware... as of right now I highly recommend nobody update their TV's from the factory firmware. The ghosting issue is still here, but it feels 10x faster than my 40" running the latest firmware, and this is in PC mode with UHD color on! It is just as fast as I remember the 40" when I pulled it out of the box. I will clone the displays and run tests to prove this to you all. Even the menu navigation is 10x faster. I can't make this stuff up guys...

Interesting... very interesting....

The firmware my 48JU7500 had was 1006 I believe so getting a new one probably would have the 1006 firmware on it, not sure if there is a difference with the 1003 firmware.

Looking forward to your pics, I assume it will now between the two Samsungs to see the difference?

When you mean faster, your referring to input lag correct?
 

Cyph

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
812
Guys, I have the 48" hooked up running version 1003 firmware... as of right now I highly recommend nobody update their TV's from the factory firmware. The ghosting issue is still here, but it feels 10x faster than my 40" running the latest firmware, and this is in PC mode with UHD color on! It is just as fast as I remember the 40" when I pulled it out of the box. I will clone the displays and run tests to prove this to you all. Even the menu navigation is 10x faster. I can't make this stuff up guys...

Document this and send it to Samsung so they can fix this. On the other hand, stock firmware, game mode is BORKED.
 

Masejoer

Gawd
Joined
Mar 11, 2001
Messages
698
If you don't know what PWM, then don't worry about it. The PWM scare is the greatest marketing gimmick of the 21st century. I'm not a denier of PWM as I do believe it's real, but 99% of people in the world should have no issues with it. Samsung wouldn't be selling as many TV's as they currently do if that were the case.

I think it's a bigger issue than some may believe. Most people do not care about the details, or know how things work, but they may unexpectedly get tired without knowing the cause(s). Worse yet, in 100 years we may find that PWM was harmful to us - after all, our bodies are only used to glowing/burning sources of light (sun, incandescent bulbs). Continuously glowing light sources, even if a blue LED shining though a phosphor coating, should be easier on our bodies/brains/eyes than anything that has a flicker (PWM, fluorescent, mercury vapor, other arc types).

I think people do blow the issue out of proportion, but it is also something that any potential shopper should know about. More than that, if it affects other people, I also think potential buyers should know about it and make an educated decision (for example, some car tail lights have really low PWM frequencies and I simply have to look away, as if I were staring into someone's high beams - it's a really bad flickering mess). Then again, since when does a random person on the street care about others around them?
 

crb806

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
82
Source -> Device Type -> Change it to PC or PC/DVI.

If you don't know what PWM, then don't worry about it. The PWM scare is the greatest marketing gimmick of the 21st century. I'm not a denier of PWM as I do believe it's real, but 99% of people in the world should have no issues with it. Samsung wouldn't be selling as many TV's as they currently do if that were the case.

Thanks! That did the trick! seeing 4:4:4 chroma now.
 

WorldExclusive

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
11,419
Guys, I have the 48" hooked up running version 1003 firmware... as of right now I highly recommend nobody update their TV's from the factory firmware. The ghosting issue is still here, but it feels 10x faster than my 40" running the latest firmware, and this is in PC mode with UHD color on! It is just as fast as I remember the 40" when I pulled it out of the box. I will clone the displays and run tests to prove this to you all. Even the menu navigation is 10x faster. I can't make this stuff up guys...

I thought this thread doesn't give any importance on "how it feels"?
Recommending no one upgrade from factory for a "better feeling" is bad advice.

This thread has turned into a witch hunt. :eek:
 

Nitemare3219

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
206
Interesting... very interesting....

The firmware my 48JU7500 had was 1006 I believe so getting a new one probably would have the 1006 firmware on it, not sure if there is a difference with the 1003 firmware.

Looking forward to your pics, I assume it will now between the two Samsungs to see the difference?

When you mean faster, your referring to input lag correct?

Input lag/response time. Yes, between the two Samsungs. Check my findings below.

Document this and send it to Samsung so they can fix this. On the other hand, stock firmware, game mode is BORKED.

Game mode isn't borked, it just has lesser chroma than the newer firmwares.

I thought this thread doesn't give any importance on "how it feels"?
Recommending no one upgrade from factory for a "better feeling" is bad advice.

This thread has turned into a witch hunt. :eek:

For gaming? Input lag is pretty important... that's why a lot of people are getting this display.

What I've found so far:

-PC mode on the stock firmware is less than a frame faster than game mode on the newest firmware (yes, game mode is faster than PC mode still - I was wrong). BUT the stock firmware is still FASTER on PC mode than the newest on GAME MODE.
-Game mode on the stock firmware (BUT HAS LOWER CHROMA - NOTICEABLE) is 1-2 frames faster than game mode on the newest firmware.
-Also comparing standard mode on stock firmware (for 120 Hz smoothing) vs game mode on the latest firmware... will let you guys know tonight.

I'll post up pictures tonight. I am busy until then, sorry!
 

coolhandm3

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
386
Input lag/response time. .

What I've found so far:

-PC mode on the stock firmware is less than a frame faster than game mode on the newest firmware (yes, game mode is faster than PC mode still - I was wrong). BUT the stock firmware is still FASTER on PC mode than the newest on GAME MODE.
-Game mode on the stock firmware (BUT HAS LOWER CHROMA - NOTICEABLE) is 1-2 frames faster than game mode on the newest firmware.
-Also comparing standard mode on stock firmware (for 120 Hz smoothing) vs game mode on the latest firmware... will let you guys know tonight.

I'll post up pictures tonight. I am busy until then, sorry!

Ok so let me throw out a couple of ideas.

First run game mode at 4k with UHD off. I think you will see the numbers for that should match the stock firmware.

Second in game mode with 4k UHD on, how much faster is it versus pc mode uhd on 4k?

If you could provide a clear breakdown of the modes and the lag versus stock firmware.

If what your saying is true then sucks for us gaming at 4k on the updated firmware.

I knew game mode was faster then pc mode at 4k...


In other news I tried the Lagom shaprness test in pc mode, 50 gives some vertical ringing, lowering shaprness to 47 now allows the tv to pass the test and gamma on the tv in pc mode needs to be at -1.
 

mkia

n00b
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
24
WorldExclusive is probably commenting on the use of the word "feel" when people are looking for empirical evidence. Too many folks in this thread make/made comments based on "feelings" versus actual data. Proof may be forthcoming but I suspect he is getting frustrated with statements that are declared without proof in this thread. Leading the sheep astray so to speak...
 

Darwin32

Weaksauce
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
85
Theodore 'T-Bag' Bagwell once famously said:

"Maybe you're one of them milk chickens, all confused-like?"

Certainly feel like one right now, reading the findings you guys are sharing. :))

But keep up the good work. There could still be a bright light at the end of the tunnel..
 

Darwin32

Weaksauce
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
85
Does anyone knows if Samsung UE40JU6450 supports 4:4:4 / 4k 60Hz ?

Hi again. ;) I'm also from Europe, but most of the info in this thread has come from US, so it's hard to confirm anything with 100 % certainty..

What we know is that 6500 model is the same TV for both markets (US and EU), with the only difference that the EU version is curved.

Then the 6400 EU model (and all it's different design variants: 6450, 6470, 6480) should be the same, but flat, TV, just without the smart control remote.

In short, yes it supports 4:4:4 at 4k@60Hz, but I cannot say with 100 % certainty..
 
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Darwin32

Weaksauce
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
85
I'd like to phone the Samsung support center, but i'm affraid they can't help to much about that

No, they will probably simply refer you to the manual, which I think confirms the 4:4:4 at 4k@60Hz. But you can find this same confirmation also in the manuals of 2014 models, which in reality did not support 4:4:4.

But anyways, I am fairly certain 64XX models support 4:4:4, so I believe you are not risking much by just going for it.. I mean, it's practically the same TV as 6500, only a flat version, so it makes no sense what so ever for this TV not to support 4:4:4.
 

Nitemare3219

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
206
Ok so let me throw out a couple of ideas.

First run game mode at 4k with UHD off. I think you will see the numbers for that should match the stock firmware.

Second in game mode with 4k UHD on, how much faster is it versus pc mode uhd on 4k?

If you could provide a clear breakdown of the modes and the lag versus stock firmware.

If what your saying is true then sucks for us gaming at 4k on the updated firmware.

I knew game mode was faster then pc mode at 4k...


In other news I tried the Lagom shaprness test in pc mode, 50 gives some vertical ringing, lowering shaprness to 47 now allows the tv to pass the test and gamma on the tv in pc mode needs to be at -1.

Those two things you want me to test... you want me to test on the latest firmware display, correct? If so, against what on stock firmware - PC mode?

UHD off may equalize things as you mentioned since it's less data to process. But that's still no explanation for why PC mode (old firmware, full 4:4:4) is faster than game mode (new firmware, 4:4:2? Has anyone figured this out yet?)

The only downside I notice so far to using the stock firmware is game mode being noticeably less sharp than PC mode again, though hardly worth mentioning in fast paced action if you need that extra 16.7~ ms. Also, HDMI black level resets to auto and color warmth to standard whenever the TV turns off - I may just use the "picture off" setting to turn off the display instead of actually turning it off... I think that'll work, will have to test.

Those of you still within the return period for your TVs, you could return and order another to hopefully get the faster firmware - you're within your rights to do so. However, Samsung may improve upon the lag even more later on... but I probably won't be the one to find out as I have no plan of updating unless it's guaranteed the same lag levels. Maybe we'll discover a way to revert the firmware later as well.

Comments on 48" over 40"... haven't gamed yet but now the 40" looks small and the 48" looks fantastic. I wouldn't go any bigger but I'm glad I upgraded in size. Will post comparison pictures later.

The pictures I have so far won't be going up until tomorrow fellas. I'm helping my girlfriend move home from college and I'm not home tonight... you know how that goes, I had no choice but to get out the door before she killed me!
 

Seyumi

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 30, 2011
Messages
367
My 40" JU7500 is coming tomorrow. I'm not even going to open it until I hear your results Nitemare lol. I've lost track with what's been going on with this thread it's getting quite large. I'm just hoping I can run the newest firmware on game mode 4:2:2? on 4K and the lag isn't in the 52ms range like your source said but the 21~36ms range due to possibly using an older & more laggy firmware. Eagerly awaiting your results :)
 
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coolhandm3

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
386
Those two things you want me to test... you want me to test on the latest firmware display, correct? If so, against what on stock firmware - PC mode?

UHD off may equalize things as you mentioned since it's less data to process. But that's still no explanation for why PC mode (old firmware, full 4:4:4) is faster than game mode (new firmware, 4:4:2? Has anyone figured this out yet?)

The only downside I notice so far to using the stock firmware is game mode being noticeably less sharp than PC mode again, though hardly worth mentioning in fast paced action if you need that extra 16.7~ ms.e!

Yes that is correct, see if udh off on stock current firmware in game mode make a difference.

What would really help is an aprox amount of frames.total.lag we are looking at, as in game.mode.4k and pc mode 4k at stock and current firmware. We know 1080p is 20.7ms in game mode so just curious what it is in 4k.

Thanks for all your hardwork!!!
 

CyJackX

n00b
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
50
Good job CyJackX :rolleyes:

Man, the past week we are getting some downright imbecilic posts about these displays, from fools claiming lag is "identical" between PC and Game mode, to a misunderstanding of WTF sharpness actually IS.

Disheartening.

If you don't know what the FK you're talking about, don't speak. It's very easy.

Back to Alien: Isolation, at 4k, with no lag that a human can feel, at 48". Bliss.

/thread

I work in video and photo production. My relationship with artificial sharpening is fairly intimate.

Curious as to whether you have some sort of actual information to criticize me with or you're just leaping on the fact that someone else said something that just might sound right so you'll follow their words blindly. I won't deign to call you imbecilic.

"Softening" artifacts aren't really a thing. It'd just be blurring, which I couldn't fathom a practical reason for a TV manufacturer to add in. "Artifacts" being manufactured detail, whereas hypothetical blurring would just be a mixing of pre-existing pixel information.

Theory aside, watch this and perhaps you will see the difference as well. Sped up for clarity. 4K recording is available for download, too, but I don't think you'll need it. ;)

https://vimeo.com/126877565
pw: sharpening

It's much more noticeable at 100 but observe it as it comes back down to 50; the artificial increase in contrast at the edges is still there, for example around the Steam logo. Artificial sharpening darkens the spot to the left of the white part of the logo and lightens the parts to the left of the black part of the logo.

0 makes sense as a setting as the lack of artificial sharpening, or at least the most intuitive. I'd be surprised if it were something else. It's probably also why Game mode defaults to 0 (or so I've heard that is the default, I've never even turned it on as it's not something I need)

I know that while everyone is on a crusade for input lag, I'm still concerned about artificial sharpening, but that's what's important to me. I'm surprised it doesn't interest the gamers because anything that the TV is artificially creating would increase processing times, no?

Whether it looks "good" to a viewer is subjective; I'm sure a little bit of sharpening may be nice depending on what you're looking at. I, however, need to know pixel-precisely how contrasty an edge may actually be and it is clear from the video that PC Mode 50 is not good for that.
 

Cyph

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
812
No, they will probably simply refer you to the manual, which I think confirms the 4:4:4 at 4k@60Hz. But you can find this same confirmation also in the manuals of 2014 models, which in reality did not support 4:4:4.

But anyways, I am fairly certain 64XX models support 4:4:4, so I believe you are not risking much by just going for it.. I mean, it's practically the same TV as 6500, only a flat version, so it makes no sense what so ever for this TV not to support 4:4:4.

6500 is flat as well. They're probably the same unit.

I work in video and photo production. My relationship with artificial sharpening is fairly intimate.

Curious as to whether you have some sort of actual information to criticize me with or you're just leaping on the fact that someone else said something that just might sound right so you'll follow their words blindly. I won't deign to call you imbecilic.

"Softening" artifacts aren't really a thing. It'd just be blurring, which I couldn't fathom a practical reason for a TV manufacturer to add in. "Artifacts" being manufactured detail, whereas hypothetical blurring would just be a mixing of pre-existing pixel information.

Theory aside, watch this and perhaps you will see the difference as well. Sped up for clarity. 4K recording is available for download, too, but I don't think you'll need it. ;)

https://vimeo.com/126877565
pw: sharpening

It's much more noticeable at 100 but observe it as it comes back down to 50; the artificial increase in contrast at the edges is still there, for example around the Steam logo. Artificial sharpening darkens the spot to the left of the white part of the logo and lightens the parts to the left of the black part of the logo.

0 makes sense as a setting as the lack of artificial sharpening, or at least the most intuitive. I'd be surprised if it were something else. It's probably also why Game mode defaults to 0 (or so I've heard that is the default, I've never even turned it on as it's not something I need)

I know that while everyone is on a crusade for input lag, I'm still concerned about artificial sharpening, but that's what's important to me. I'm surprised it doesn't interest the gamers because anything that the TV is artificially creating would increase processing times, no?

Whether it looks "good" to a viewer is subjective; I'm sure a little bit of sharpening may be nice depending on what you're looking at. I, however, need to know pixel-precisely how contrasty an edge may actually be and it is clear from the video that PC Mode 50 is not good for that.

I believe you're right regarding sharpening. It makes no sense for one mode to have no sharpening at 50 and and 0 on another. That's pretty nonsensical. The superior processing on PC mode is the reason why people think there's no sharpening on 50.

I suspect the stock firmware was missing UHD on game mode which is the reason why it has less input lag (and also why it looked bad). Turning off UHD on the current firmware may lower the lag, and look just as bad as stock.

In any case, I'm having a blast playing games in PC mode. I don't have any issues with game lag (thanks to my inferior reflex :D) on PC mode. I would never trade 4:4:4 for 4:2:0 with less lag. However, I can see how others prefer lower input lag over quality. Godspeed and keep hunting. The Samsung is a great "monitor" and it has something for everyone. It's only been a month, so Samsung will keep churning those firmwares out and hopefully finally get it right. PC mode for quality, and game mode for lower lag and less processing.
 

greyx

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
503
Samsung UE40JU6450 has 4x HDMI 2.0 (MHL)
That means, its working 4:4:4 @4k 60 Hz ?
 

crb806

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
82
I've got the JU7100 50" and noticed a few things. When I turn my light off that is close to the TV the screen looses brightness and gains it back when I turn it back on. Anyone know what that is?

Also having some eye fatigue/strain. My settings are default except for being set to PC mode. Anyone have any suggestions for settings that could help me? Maybe the above is part of the reason for the fatigue since the light I leave on is at the other side of the room and not bright.
 
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