New Samsung 4k for everyone.

Nitemare3219

Limp Gawd
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Apr 2, 2015
Messages
206
Glossy panels are ALWAYS better then any type of anti-glare polarization. It is simply a fact. You are blurring the image, so it is less sharp and color is less vivid. But Samsung's semi-gloss is very very light, so perhaps it is not a big difference at all. But I am sure it is there (maybe need a microscope!), nonetheless.

As far as the motion blur, fire up this baby: http://www.testufo.com/#test=ghosting and take a picture of the 6700 and 7500 close up with the UFO's so we can compare the motion blur! Try to force the camera settings to be the same (such as setting exposure/ISO) as much as you can. I've gotten some pretty great comparisons doing this just off my Note 4 camera.

Anyway, some questions I forgot to ask earlier before I purchased this thing!

  • With the chroma (right now) being 4:2:2 Game Mode and 4:4:4 PC Mode, how will this affect gaming? Do games use 4:4:4 chroma on PC, or are they limited to 4:2:2 for console couterparts? People say they are mostly concerned with desktop usage. Gaming is the biggest deal to me.
  • Why is everyone wanting these displays so much?! I get it... they're big. They can function as a monitor. Is that it? I walk into stores and get "wow"'d by some TVs all the time. Do TV panels possess that much better image quality for some reason, or is that out the window with post-processing off in game mode? I'm stoked about the multiple uses I'll get out of this, but I'm wondering if it's going to blow away previous monitors I've ever used!
 
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Joined
Apr 14, 2015
Messages
6
Reading everyone taking their lower end models back is a little disappointing as this is the smallest JU7500 i can get,

http://www.samsung.com/au/consumer/tv-audio-video/television/uhd-tv/UA55JU7500WXXY.

Trying to figure out if it is worth the price increase + size differential to make it as view-able as the 40-48" is to you all.

Or i just go with the below,

http://www.samsung.com/au/consumer/tv-audio-video/television/uhd-tv/UA40JU6400WXXY

Does this above actually match up to the model you all get in specifications below or is it a poorer model?

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/UN40JU6500FXZA
 

Wag

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
1,144
Everyone is not taking their 6500/6700s back. Plenty of us are more than happy with them.
 

Mako360

Limp Gawd
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Mar 1, 2006
Messages
336
How do you set the desktop at 2160p? I tried 100% with my 55JU7100 but everything is too small!!! Instead, if you zoom in 150% or more it seems that games are zoomed in too...

Those of us who ran Dell 30" displays at 2560x1600 have no problem with the 48" units at 4k at 100%. Small is what you paid for knuckles, you WANT the extra desktop real estate, it's the whole point.
 

Mako360

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
336
Firmware just auto-updated to 1209, no idea what changes or differences there are yet.

Edit: Just checked, still 4:2:2 in Game Mode, can't find any changes in GUI or elsewhere.
 
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Agent00F

Limp Gawd
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Aug 26, 2013
Messages
207
There you go again telling me I have no idea what I'm seeing and that my eyes are wrong. You are making conclusions based on a review and pictures that have no bearing on gaming whatsoever.

I'm making conclusions based on some understanding of how displays and eyes work. Knowing what goes on underneath tends to make a difference in analysis.
 
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Those of us who ran Dell 30" displays at 2560x1600 have no problem with the 48" units at 4k at 100%. Small is what you paid for knuckles, you WANT the extra desktop real estate, it's the whole point.

So, with the desktop at 150% games are zoomed in too?
 

Agent00F

Limp Gawd
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Messages
207
Agent00F, you have no idea WTF you are talking about. Serious.

It has already been proven that PWM still exists at level 20 brightness. Can you not read? I believe Ziran proved this way early on in the thread. No blur in test pics?? WTH are you talking about? The 7500 still has ghosting, but significantly less ghosting than the 6700. Ghosting on the 7500 is still clearly visible in the review UFO pictures.

Go re-read the thread, be amazed at your wrongness. And PLEASE STOP TROLLING this thread.

Ziran's photo showed negligible off duty cycle at 20. This is not visible to the human visual system, but there's something to be said about the power of belief.

rting's test pic shows zero noticeable image blur on the 7500. It does however show typical pwm stop-motion artifact (again, similar stuttering to non-blurred CG game images) which for whatever reason people confuse with "blur" when it's the exact antithesis. Ironically, that opposing quality to pwm/stutter artifacts called blur, which results when motion-tracking DC/current-backlight dimming, is considered desirable in contrast for this situation.

As mentioned before the problem here that some folks simply can't discern the difference between knowing how things work and its counterpart, and thus cannot make any effort to effect progress.
 

Agent00F

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 26, 2013
Messages
207
That all sounds right to me Cyph, the only thing I consciously noticed are the blacks. It's very slight, I don't want to overstate it as it's so close that I might fail a blind A/B on it, but it SEEMS like the black are a hair better on the 7500. And that could be anything, it may also just be my imagination as well, I don't want 6700 owners thinking there's a possible benefit there and feeling they need to reach for it...it could be nonsense.

But I'll throw you a bone and say it might be because of the gloss versus matte heheh...:D:D

The way these matte coatings work is spreading the same amount of light around. So whichever is "better" depends on how you measure, namely if you're bothered more by brighter reflected sources or dispersions of them.

Also, why would supposedly less blur be "smoother"? How does that make sense? The main reason why a motion picture at 24fps looks so much smoother than a juddery CG game at 24fps is due to blur.
 

Mako360

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
336
I'm making conclusions based on some understanding of how displays and eyes work. Knowing what goes on underneath tends to make a difference in analysis.

Ziran's photo showed negligible off duty cycle at 20. This is not visible to the human visual system, but there's something to be said about the power of belief.

rting's test pic shows zero noticeable image blur on the 7500. It does however show typical pwm stop-motion artifact (again, similar stuttering to non-blurred CG game images) which for whatever reason people confuse with "blur" when it's the exact antithesis. Ironically, that opposing quality to pwm/stutter artifacts called blur, which results when motion-tracking DC/current-backlight dimming, is considered desirable in contrast for this situation.

As mentioned before the problem here that some folks simply can't discern the difference between knowing how things work and its counterpart, and thus cannot make any effort to effect progress.

The way these matte coatings work is spreading the same amount of light around. So whichever is "better" depends on how you measure, namely if you're bothered more by brighter reflected sources or dispersions of them.

Also, why would supposedly less blur be "smoother"? How does that make sense? The main reason why a motion picture at 24fps looks so much smoother than a juddery CG game at 24fps is due to blur.

Cool stories bro.
 

Cyph

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http://wccftech.com/witcher-3-batma...upport-post-patch-check-witcher-3-screenshot/

Witcher 3 and Batman to get Directx12 support.

“The most exciting part of Windows 10 for gamers is the introduction of DirectX 12. You are likely to start seeing the benefits of the new graphics technology already in The Witcher 3, Batman: Arkham Knight and more games released later this year. Some CPU-bound games like MMO’s are able get a performance bump of up to 50% according to Microsoft.”

If we get just 25% increase, then the era of single card 4k is already here.
 

Brahmzy

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
4,958
Ziran's photo showed negligible off duty cycle at 20. This is not visible to the human visual system, but there's something to be said about the power of belief.

rting's test pic shows zero noticeable image blur on the 7500. It does however show typical pwm stop-motion artifact (again, similar stuttering to non-blurred CG game images) which for whatever reason people confuse with "blur" when it's the exact antithesis. Ironically, that opposing quality to pwm/stutter artifacts called blur, which results when motion-tracking DC/current-backlight dimming, is considered desirable in contrast for this situation.

As mentioned before the problem here that some folks simply can't discern the difference between knowing how things work and its counterpart, and thus cannot make any effort to effect progress.
Blah blah blah.
You don't know what you're talking about. Quit telling people what is and isn't visible to them.
You own none of these displays, yet you continue to spout off at the mouth, discrediting well known facts. Go away already.
 

seku

n00b
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
42
Running a ole Titan here ... the graphics card upgrade question really is not a trivial one :rolleyes:

Do i wait for 980ti (in the hopes of fusionned VRAM SLI later), do i go for a Titan X for starters (which takes a toll on holiday budgets) or do i wait for 390x and live with meh Titan 4:2:0 4k ... choices over choices :eek:
 

Lateralus

More [H]uman than Human
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Messages
17,319
If you have the money, go with Titan X. Not only is it available right now, you won't be so dependent on the future of stackable VRAM.
 

Nitemare3219

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Messages
206
http://wccftech.com/witcher-3-batma...upport-post-patch-check-witcher-3-screenshot/

Witcher 3 and Batman to get Directx12 support.



If we get just 25% increase, then the era of single card 4k is already here.

I don't anticipate any increases unless the GPU utilization is below 100% (CPU bound games). GTA 5 would be a fantastic addition to DX 12, but I don't even know if that's possible.

I'll take any free upgrade I can get though :D

Anyone able to comment on my questions from last night?

  • With the chroma (right now) being 4:2:2 Game Mode and 4:4:4 PC Mode, how will this affect gaming? Do games use 4:4:4 chroma on PC, or are they limited to 4:2:2 for console couterparts? People say they are mostly concerned with desktop usage. Gaming is the biggest deal to me.
  • Why is everyone wanting these displays so much?! I get it... they're big. They can function as a monitor. Is that it? I walk into stores and get "wow"'d by some TVs all the time. Do TV panels possess that much better image quality for some reason, or is that out the window with post-processing off in game mode? I'm stoked about the multiple uses I'll get out of this, but I'm wondering if it's going to blow away previous monitors I've ever used!
 

Lateralus

More [H]uman than Human
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Messages
17,319
I just confirmed that it's possible to have perfect 4:4:4 in PC mode without renaming the source to PC. Apparently you can name it whatever you like. I wasn't ever sure why that mattered anyway.
 

Brahmzy

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Messages
4,958
I just confirmed that it's possible to have perfect 4:4:4 in PC mode without renaming the source to PC. Apparently you can name it whatever you like. I wasn't ever sure why that mattered anyway.

Yeah, the name has always been meaningless since I've owned both of these - just the 'Device Type' matters.
 

Seyumi

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 30, 2011
Messages
367
I guess this is the million dollar question. Is there ANY degrade in visual quality when running on GAME mode 4:2:2 versus PC mode on 4:4:4? This is for PC gaming not desktop/office work.
 

Brahmzy

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Messages
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Color saturation and overall brightness levels are different between the two, at the same settings. Whether they can be adjusted to match, I'm not sure. Only you can decide if anything looks 'degraded' while you're playing a game. I couldn't tell, other than the things I mentioned.
 

Lateralus

More [H]uman than Human
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
17,319
Yeah. Before the firmware update I could discern a pretty big difference when Game mode was enabled. Even in games, you could tell that something was "off." After the 1207 update, I can't tell a big difference on the desktop and I can't discern any difference in games. That update made a HUGE difference.

Have you updated past 1207 yet, Brahmzy? If so, are there any notable differences?
 

SlippinJimmy

Weaksauce
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
104
Is this update to game mode just for the 7100, or for lower models as well?

Also, did anyone purchase the 55ju6500? I'm wondering if that's too big.
 
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Cyph

Gawd
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Mar 24, 2015
Messages
812
I don't anticipate any increases unless the GPU utilization is below 100% (CPU bound games). GTA 5 would be a fantastic addition to DX 12, but I don't even know if that's possible.

I'll take any free upgrade I can get though :D

Anyone able to comment on my questions from last night?

  • With the chroma (right now) being 4:2:2 Game Mode and 4:4:4 PC Mode, how will this affect gaming? Do games use 4:4:4 chroma on PC, or are they limited to 4:2:2 for console couterparts? People say they are mostly concerned with desktop usage. Gaming is the biggest deal to me.
  • Why is everyone wanting these displays so much?! I get it... they're big. They can function as a monitor. Is that it? I walk into stores and get "wow"'d by some TVs all the time. Do TV panels possess that much better image quality for some reason, or is that out the window with post-processing off in game mode? I'm stoked about the multiple uses I'll get out of this, but I'm wondering if it's going to blow away previous monitors I've ever used!

There should be upgrades as the API is closer to the metal. Any time there is less middlemen abstraction, efficiencies improve. The question is how much.

Games as far as I know don't use 4:4:4 chroma. If someone has information to dispute this, I'd love to see it. PS4 and Bluray uses 4:2:0 chroma. Has anyone ever said, "boy, I wished X-Men was in 4:4:4 choma, or GTA5 is just missing some colors on the PS4?"

Well, for most folks, 40" and 48" curve screens don't exist as a monitor. It's the only display out there at a price that's reasonable. Curve 34" LG widescreen is a smaller monitor that cost more than the 6700. The Phillips was my first choice, but the fact that it has ghosting, color contrast issues, non-squared pixels, and image persistence drove me this direction. Add to the fact that the samsung is also a 4K TV with smart Apps (comes with a quadcore processor) is a huge plus. Plex is amazing as a home movie streamer, once you use it, it will be difficult to go back (check it out):

plex-home-theater-screenshot-01.jpg


I have a NAS that serves TV shows and movies to my F8500 and (eventually) the JU7100 once Plex is converted over to Tizen. TV's can still be used once it's no longer a monitor. Monitors are monitors, there's not much more you can do with it. If all you're looking for is a monitor, well, there's plenty of choices. You can save a few bucks and go play the Korean panel lottery, which I never feel is worth it. As they all are using the TPVision panel, unless it's a software issue which I doubt, then all those panels have the same issues as the Phillips.

Titan X + 6/7 series + 4K gaming will blow away any 1080P image quality-wise. :cool: Unfortunately, you're going to need the combo, or some sort of SLI. 4K gaming isn't for the faint of heart.
 

Nitemare3219

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
206
There should be upgrades as the API is closer to the metal. Any time there is less middlemen abstraction, efficiencies improve. The question is how much.

Games as far as I know don't use 4:4:4 chroma. If someone has information to dispute this, I'd love to see it. PS4 and Bluray uses 4:2:0 chroma. Has anyone ever said, "boy, I wished X-Men was in 4:4:4 choma, or GTA5 is just missing some colors on the PS4?"

Well, for most folks, 40" and 48" curve screens don't exist as a monitor. It's the only display out there at a price that's reasonable. Curve 34" LG widescreen is a smaller monitor that cost more than the 6700. The Phillips was my first choice, but the fact that it has ghosting, color contrast issues, non-squared pixels, and image persistence drove me this direction. Add to the fact that the samsung is also a 4K TV with smart Apps (comes with a quadcore processor) is a huge plus. Plex is amazing as a home movie streamer, once you use it, it will be difficult to go back (check it out):

I have a NAS that serves TV shows and movies to my F8500 and (eventually) the JU7100 once Plex is converted over to Tizen. TV's can still be used once it's no longer a monitor. Monitors are monitors, there's not much more you can do with it. If all you're looking for is a monitor, well, there's plenty of choices. You can save a few bucks and go play the Korean panel lottery, which I never feel is worth it. As they all are using the TPVision panel, unless it's a software issue which I doubt, then all those panels have the same issues as the Phillips.

Titan X + 6/7 series + 4K gaming will blow away any 1080P image quality-wise. :cool: Unfortunately, you're going to need the combo, or some sort of SLI. 4K gaming isn't for the faint of heart.

That is a good point. Hopefully the increase in efficiency brings about some great numbers.

I'm less concerned with color, and more concerned with sharpness. Afterall, this is a 4K display for a reason! From what I saw with the quick brown fox tests, and some info I found on Google, compressed video (lower chroma) can result in pixelation. If my 4K is going to look less sharp because of 4:2:2 in game mode, then that is a major issue in my book. Hopefully I'll be able to compare this easily by switching modes while in-game somehow (maybe just swapping ports on the Mini One Connect box?)

I have TITAN X SLI, and have used SLI since the 500 series. Prior to making the 4K jump a few months ago, I gamed at 1440p 120Hz on a Catleap. That glossy IPS is gorgeous for $300 (+$200 for OC capable PCB), but it had color accuracy issues due to lack of OSD calibration. That monitor was still lovely, and I plan on keeping it for awhile just in case I want fluid gameplay like that again. G-Sync really doesn't even seem necessary at those refresh rates. I had it hooked up side-by-side with an ROG Swift, and noticed ZERO difference.
 

coolhandm3

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
386
That is a good point. Hopefully the increase in efficiency brings about some great numbers.

I'm less concerned with color, and more concerned with sharpness. Afterall, this is a 4K display for a reason! From what I saw with the quick brown fox tests, and some info I found on Google, compressed video (lower chroma) can result in pixelation. If my 4K is going to look less sharp because of 4:2:2 in game mode, then that is a major issue in my book. Hopefully I'll be able to compare this easily by switching modes while in-game somehow (maybe just swapping ports on the Mini One Connect box?)

I have TITAN X SLI, and have used SLI since the 500 series. Prior to making the 4K jump a few months ago, I gamed at 1440p 120Hz on a Catleap. That glossy IPS is gorgeous for $300 (+$200 for OC capable PCB), but it had color accuracy issues due to lack of OSD calibration. That monitor was still lovely, and I plan on keeping it for awhile just in case I want fluid gameplay like that again. G-Sync really doesn't even seem necessary at those refresh rates. I had it hooked up side-by-side with an ROG Swift, and noticed ZERO difference.

The only issue I have with SLi is the extra frame.of lag it introduces with AFR and Nvidia does a full frame buffer aswell to combat microstutter.

Anyone felt a difference with lag or microstutter going to a dual titan x sli??
 

Mako360

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
336
The only issue I have with SLi is the extra frame.of lag it introduces with AFR and Nvidia does a full frame buffer aswell to combat microstutter.

Anyone felt a difference with lag or microstutter going to a dual titan x sli??

No SLI here, but in several Titan X SLI reviews they measured it and a variety of cards for microstutter and came away saying that it's definitely there, but it's lower than any other card on the market.

Which sucks, because it means that no amount of money we throw at it can solve the problem. It's the best if can be for this generation of GPUs basically. :confused:
 

Mako360

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
336
With the 7500 my Windows is doing some horseshit, it's randomly blanking the screen for 1-2 seconds, usually once every 10-20 minutes or so. Audio stays on, the apps that are open don't resize or anything, it's just the image itself shutting off for a sec.

I've isolated it to the desktop environment as it doesn't do it at all for the Smart Hub apps (watching hours of 4k Netflix/YouTube/Amazon, etc), nor does it do it in games at all at 4k (similar hours, no blanking of the screen), just the 4k desktop.

Checked all the power settings within Windows, the rest of the usual culprits, and the TV settings are all fine. Wonder what I can play with to determine what's causing it.
 

Agent00F

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 26, 2013
Messages
207
Cool stories bro.

"As mentioned before the problem here that some folks simply can't discern the difference between knowing how things work and its counterpart, and thus cannot make any effort to effect progress."
 

Nenu

[H]ardened
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Apr 28, 2007
Messages
20,166
With the 7500 my Windows is doing some horseshit, it's randomly blanking the screen for 1-2 seconds, usually once every 10-20 minutes or so. Audio stays on, the apps that are open don't resize or anything, it's just the image itself shutting off for a sec.

I've isolated it to the desktop environment as it doesn't do it at all for the Smart Hub apps (watching hours of 4k Netflix/YouTube/Amazon, etc), nor does it do it in games at all at 4k (similar hours, no blanking of the screen), just the 4k desktop.

Checked all the power settings within Windows, the rest of the usual culprits, and the TV settings are all fine. Wonder what I can play with to determine what's causing it.

HDMI cable.
 

Mako360

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
336
HDMI cable.

The cable seems solid, worked fine with the 6700 and it's that Amazon Mediabridge Ultra one we're all using basically.

I'm wondering though if that asinine port break-out box the 7500 uses might add to the cable's woes (10ft hdmi cable), worth a shot to swap it I guess.
 

Agent00F

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 26, 2013
Messages
207
Blah blah blah.
You don't know what you're talking about. Quit telling people what is and isn't visible to them.
You own none of these displays, yet you continue to spout off at the mouth, discrediting well known facts. Go away already.

Take a careful look at how short of a time that the backlight at 20 is off for. That's the equivalent of 50% pwm at >>1khz, except better because it's only off once in ~10ms instead of 10+ times. The more significant difference between this and a high freq pwm display at 50% is that the former lacks the other numerous off pulses and is therefore twice as bright, and whatever problems you're having likely stem from that.

Again, knowing how things work makes a considerable difference in analysis. Though to be fair, quality of analysis seems a very low stack rank priority atm.
 
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Agent00F

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 26, 2013
Messages
207
> Why is everyone wanting these displays so much?! I get it... they're big. They can function as a monitor. Is that it?

Pretty much. The 4k (instead of 1080p which can be had for much less) res is mostly useful for combating aliasing artifacts in CG elements like fonts/UI. Otherwise it's a matter of bragging rights which has social value.
 

Pastuch

Gawd
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
624
Ugh... The Canadian dollar is making buying a Samsung TV brutal. Fucking OPEC!

UN40JU6500FXZC - $1200
UN40JU6700FXZC - $1500

UN48JU6500FXZC - $1500
UN48JU6700FXZC - $1800

Bestbuy: JU7500 I can find is the 55 inch for $2700.

Jibbys Electronics (never dealt with them) has a decent price on:
Samsung UN48JU7500 48" - $1,599.99


Vizio M55C2 is only $1329

I miss the strong Canadian dollar.
 
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