New Samsung 4k for everyone.

Honeydew

Weaksauce
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Jun 2, 2015
Messages
88
I received my replacement monitor from Crutchfield today. The unit arrived in good condition (i.e., no apparent shipping damage), and I'm pleased to report the PQ is fantastic. Less backlight bleeding than my Amazon display and no picture anomalies (which was the reason for my initial return with Crutchfield).

I'm a happy camper right now.
 

mkia

n00b
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
24
Run a image test... color pallette... something. There is no confusion. HDMI LOW = limited range. Dark colors are crushed to straight black and at the other end color values are boosted increasing vibrance, which loses detail. HDMI should be set to NORMAL.

Interesting anecdote, after reading those articles I played around a bit with TV and Nvidia settings.

Samsung HDMI Black Level: Auto; Nvidia RGB: Full = Passes Contrast and Black Level tests
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Normal; Nvidia RGB: Full = Passes Contrast and Black Level tests but appears slightly washed out (brightness) compared to Auto:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Low; Nvidia RGB: Full = Looks like Auto:Full

Samsung HDMI Black Level: Auto; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Normal; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Low; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full

Take that for what you will, as they are only my observations. My previous point was to use the settings that look good to you, not that one particular setting is right or wrong.
 

gizmotweak

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Jul 8, 2015
Messages
2
Hello all,

First post and I want to thank the contributors on this thread for all the info on the Samsung displays.

I had an 8 year old 30 inch lg 2560 display and it felt cramped when working in dev environments and had been planning on getting the Phillips 40 inch for months but thankfully it was always out of stock.

Then I ran across this thread and I am really happy I did.

After reading this thread I ended up getting the 9000 and I couldn't be happier with it.
For those wondering if the 48 inch 9000 might be too big, I find it to be the perfect size.

For comparison, here is my old setup with a 30 inch LG and now with the JS9000:


mount.jpg




Some people here were wondering about mounting options.

I picked up this one from amazon for pretty cheap and so far it works great. No Height adjustment but there is tilt and turn and lateral adjustment. Was a super easy installation.

ECHOGEAR Full Motion Articulating TV Wall Mount Bracket for 26-50" LED, LCD, OLED and Plasma Flat Screens with VESA patterns up to 400 x 400 - Include

Pretty happy with it and would recommend it.

I will post my settings later in the hopes that one of you guys who are experienced can go over them and make sure i have it set up right.

Now if I could just figure out how to get that ugly one connect box off my desk...will probably have to build an under desk mount for it...wish it was black so it would not be so visually intrusive.

btw,

Are you guys buying the extended warranty from Samsung on these monitors?

Samsung offers a 3 year for like 300 and it kicks in after your first year so its like 4 years of coverage...parsed out its not bad considering we are dropping two grand on these things...I am not sure though. Samsung said you can buy it anytime within the first year of ownership while its under warranty.

Should I get it?
 
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MistaSparkul

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
2,012
So I haven't kept up with this thread for months and now I'm hearing about a new series JS7000 that's suppose to be coming out soon. Instead of reading through tons of pages of info I'm hoping someone can answer a few questions I got about the JS series.

1. I remember a while back that people said the PWM and motion blur on the JU7000 series is "better" than the JU6000 series. What about the PWM and motion blur/response time on the JS series? Is it EVEN BETTER than the JU7000? Or is it the same?

2. What's the input lag on the JS series in 4k60hz 4:4:4 mode?

3. With this display being "quantum dot", what benefits is that going to give it (if any) in terms of use a PC monitor for web browsing and some gaming?

4. Are there any misc. problems on the current JS lineup such as sleep problems, HDMI problems, etc?
 

ForgedReality

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
129
Why are people lazy? It seems these answers get re-answered every other page or so. There are search tools you can use to search the thread, you know.
 

ForgedReality

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
129
Sigh I figured I would get a reply like that... :rolleyes:

Well come on man, we just talked about the PWM a page or two back, complete with awesome graphs showing the differences between the models, and the JS series is by far the best in that respect.

Then a page or two before that, we went over input lag times, and actually it seems like people keep posting their input lag as they receive their units for comparison with others, so the thread is full of measurements.

Quantum dot technology is easy to learn about, and this thread isn't even required. Basically, it is an additional layer that adds color gamut, accuracy, and vibrance. It's kind of a stop-gap solution until OLED becomes mainstream (read: actually available).

Problems seem to keep being fixed with each firmware revision. You can read about that here as well. It wasn't until the last 20 or 30 pages that this thread really blew up about the JS series, so it's not that much to sift through. :p
 

goldpok

n00b
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
11
1. I remember a while back that people said the PWM and motion blur on the JU7000 series is "better" than the JU6000 series. What about the PWM and motion blur/response time on the JS series? Is it EVEN BETTER than the JU7000? Or is it the same?

we just talked about the PWM a page or two back, complete with awesome graphs showing the differences between the models, and the JS series is by far the best in that respect

Interesting, to me these graphs looked like there is not much difference between JS and the JU7xxx

JU7100 - http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/ju7100/ju7100-backlight-large.jpg
JS8500 - http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/js8500/js8500-backlight-large.jpg

Am I misunderstanding something ?

I agree, the 6500 looks very drastic with sharp falls, and if those graphs are correct, it can probably be more troublesome for PWM sensitive people.
http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/ju6500/ju6500-backlight-large.jpg

I do not know about motion blur/response time on the JS series in comparison to JU7xxxx, it might be better than even the JU7100, but this is just a pure guess :)
 

ForgedReality

Limp Gawd
Joined
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Messages
129
Interesting, to me these graphs looked like there is not much difference between JS and the JU7xxx

JU7100 - http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/ju7100/ju7100-backlight-large.jpg
JS8500 - http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/js8500/js8500-backlight-large.jpg

Am I misunderstanding something ?

I agree, the 6500 looks very drastic with sharp falls, and if those graphs are correct, it can probably be more troublesome for PWM sensitive people.
http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/ju6500/ju6500-backlight-large.jpg

I do not know about motion blur/response time on the JS series in comparison to JU7xxxx, it might be better than even the JU7100, but this is just a pure guess :)

Oh you're probably right. I kind of skimmed that page at work, and I tend to disregard the JU series as it's older. :p
 

goldpok

n00b
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
11
Just in case anyone finds this useful, I snapped some pictures of my JU7100 at different backlight settings to get a feeling of what the different PWM look like

Backlight: 2
7SZRjdK.jpg


Backlight 8
LWGEbmv.jpg


Backlight 12
MwXIM08.jpg


Backlight 16
eN4xfcO.jpg


Backlight 18
qdy4dfp.jpg


Backlight 20
qWa8X5N.jpg


These were taken at 1/25 shutter speed, as you can probably guess by the number of lines visible. I do apologize for my shaky hands and terrible photography skills :)

These actually look very similar to the graphs from the rtings.com, which makes sense
http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/ju7100/ju7100-backlight-large.jpg

I can even sort of see the sine wave curve (as opposed to the alleged square wave for the 6500). Although it would be interesting to compare this against similar photos of the 6500.

I was using the monitor at Backlight 12 so far, but these pictures now tempt me to maybe at least switch to a setting of 16.
 

Cyph

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
812
With the sine wave, it looks more like PWM of 360-480 with various degrees of intensities. I think it's trying to emulate flourescent PWM.

Also, be careful with the JS7000. CMR of 120 tells me it may be a 60hz panel which infers that it has a backlight similar to the 6 series. May want to wait for the Rtings review on that one.
 

Lateralus

More [H]uman than Human
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
16,984
With the sine wave, it looks more like PWM of 360-480 with various degrees of intensities. I think it's trying to emulate flourescent PWM.

Also, be careful with the JS7000. CMR of 120 tells me it may be a 60hz panel which infers that it has a backlight similar to the 6 series. May want to wait for the Rtings review on that one.

Yowza. That would definitely help explain how they're able to deliver the quantum dot sets at that price point.

Of course for some, I suspect that it wouldn't matter one bit. Lots of people enjoying their JU6500/6700s despite the differences. :)
 

Cyph

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
812
True that. PWM doesn't bother me in the least. But I know there are some who prefer to avoid just because PWM is a dirty word.
 

Q-BZ

Fully [H]
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
19,495
True that. PWM doesn't bother me in the least. But I know there are some who prefer to avoid just because PWM is a dirty word.

Some people really do have a sensitivity to it or at least certain forms of it.
 

vorpel

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Messages
394
I received my replacement monitor from Crutchfield today. The unit arrived in good condition (i.e., no apparent shipping damage), and I'm pleased to report the PQ is fantastic. Less backlight bleeding than my Amazon display and no picture anomalies (which was the reason for my initial return with Crutchfield).

I'm a happy camper right now.

That is great news - congrats!!! Now, enjoy!
 

Bastich

n00b
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Messages
42
I personally have no problem with PWM as far as eye strain or headaches, but find the effect it has on motion clarity to be dreadful. It's the primary reason why I returned the Samsung JU7100.
 

Zarathustra[H]

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 29, 2000
Messages
33,807
Interesting anecdote, after reading those articles I played around a bit with TV and Nvidia settings.

Samsung HDMI Black Level: Auto; Nvidia RGB: Full = Passes Contrast and Black Level tests
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Normal; Nvidia RGB: Full = Passes Contrast and Black Level tests but appears slightly washed out (brightness) compared to Auto:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Low; Nvidia RGB: Full = Looks like Auto:Full

Samsung HDMI Black Level: Auto; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Normal; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Low; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full

Take that for what you will, as they are only my observations. My previous point was to use the settings that look good to you, not that one particular setting is right or wrong.

Did you also check the YCBR 444 mode?
 

vorpel

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Messages
394
3. With this display being "quantum dot", what benefits is that going to give it (if any) in terms of use a PC monitor for web browsing and some gaming?

4. Are there any misc. problems on the current JS lineup such as sleep problems, HDMI problems, etc?

Colors are more vibrant on the JS9000 (and I would assume 8500, but I haven't tried that one). That being said, I have 40" JU6700's on either side and unless I'm specifically looking for it, the JU6700's still blow me away with how good they look. Blacks are a little bit deeper on the JS9000, but again unless you are really looking hard at it I don't see the difference in day to day use.

I think the OneConnect box and possibly the HDR will be the biggest differentiators, but that is future proofing stuff that there is no concrete answer for.

When used as a TV, I think the JS9000 is better with the higher motion rate, so if you are going to be viewing a lot of non-PC input video, it might be worth the upgrade to either the 7100/7500/8500/9000 series.

Like someone else posted regarding issues with the JS9000 - Samsung seems to be on top of the issues and have released new firmwares that are only making the TV better.

Hope this helps. There really is a lot of good info in the last 1/3 of this forum topic - worth reading.

Enjoy and let us know what you decide!
 

Q-BZ

Fully [H]
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Messages
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Stupid question. I've tried to keep up with this thread but for the folks leaning more towards gaming focus... the 120 or 240CMR... are you all even bothering with that or do you shut it all off anyways when you go into either PC and/or Game mode? (If that's applicable)
 

Q-BZ

Fully [H]
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Messages
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Zarathustra[H];1041720030 said:
I don't even know what the CMR is, lol

Clear Motion Rate. Refresh rate although I know the distinction about "real" 120Hz on monitors vs what a lot of TVs still do.
 

ssj92

n00b
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Apr 20, 2015
Messages
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Does anyone know how much of the sRGB and AdobeRGB color space these TVs can show? Specifically the JU6500/6700?
 

Zarathustra[H]

Extremely [H]
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Clear Motion Rate. Refresh rate although I know the distinction about "real" 120Hz on monitors vs what a lot of TVs still do.

Ahh.

I don't recall seeing any option named CMR or clear motion rate in the TV configuration menu.


That doesn't mean it isn't there (there are lots of options and I don't remember them all) but if it is disabled on mine it would likely be something automatic as part of PC mode and Game mode.
 

Masejoer

Gawd
Joined
Mar 11, 2001
Messages
698
Zarathustra[H];1041720066 said:
Ahh.

I don't recall seeing any option named CMR or clear motion rate in the TV configuration menu.


That doesn't mean it isn't there (there are lots of options and I don't remember them all) but if it is disabled on mine it would likely be something automatic as part of PC mode and Game mode.

Yeah, not sure. I believe Auto Motion Plus (AMP) has to do with using the LED backlight to improve the quality of the higher refresh rate. I know AMP is an option, but not sure if it's what controls CMR. It may enable CMR also?

Edit:
Found this discussion: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...msung-s-clear-motion-rate-processor-work.html

From Mike99 in the thread:

"
I emailed Samsung & here's their reply. Maybe someone else will get a different answer, I don't know. But this is what I was told.

Thank you for contacting Samsung. I will be glad to assist you in providing the information regarding the auto motion plus and clear motion rate of the TV.
a) Auto motion plus and clear motion rate are not related to each other.
b) You can only turn on and off the auto motion plus option, there is no option to turn off clear motion rate.
"
 
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Zarathustra[H]

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Yeah, not sure. I believe Auto Motion Plus (AMP) has to do with using the LED backlight to improve the quality of the higher refresh rate. I know AMP is an option, but not sure if it's what controls CMR. It may enabled CMR also?

Ahh, I've never tinkered with it. I recall someone here saying that it introduces a metric ton of lag though.
 

Cyph

Gawd
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Messages
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CMR is the marketing term from Samsung. I have no idea how they manage to double the refresh rate, then call it CMR120/240. All I know is 120 = 60, 240 = 120.
 

Masejoer

Gawd
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Messages
698
Zarathustra[H];1041720103 said:
Ahh, I've never tinkered with it. I recall someone here saying that it introduces a metric ton of lag though.

Of course - any processing of signals will need time to complete (lag). Motion interpolation is one of the heaviest processing jobs it can do, and adds a good amount of delay before displaying the final image. The tv must look a frame ahead before it can generate a new frame and insert it, so just waiting for the next frame before starting the processing work adds further delay.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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CMR is the marketing term from Samsung. I have no idea how they manage to double the refresh rate, then call it CMR120/240. All I know is 120 = 60, 240 = 120.

I did some reading on this here.

Apparently they (the entire industry, not just samsung) do two things.

1.) They rapidly flash the backlight on and off (faster than is noticeable to humans, so it doesn't introduce flicker). Somehow they are able to be dark during portions of time that the ghosting is visible, and thus minimize the appearance of it.

2.) The do active frame motion interpolation, which adds a bunch of lag, but blends frames together in a way that minimizes the appearance of ghosting when they transition.

This page over at rtings shows tables of actual and marketing refresh rates for a number of currently popular models
 

Honeydew

Weaksauce
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Messages
88
Stupid question. I've tried to keep up with this thread but for the folks leaning more towards gaming focus... the 120 or 240CMR... are you all even bothering with that or do you shut it all off anyways when you go into either PC and/or Game mode? (If that's applicable)

Although individual preferences will vary, I find the available AMP schemes to be irrelevant to my gaming needs. I use PC mode exclusively with this display.

Based on the discussion above, the following may help:

- AMP is the term Samsung uses for the various interpolation schemes that provide the CMR frequencies listed above.
- AMP is not available in PC mode.
 
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
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Got my 48" 6700 delivered today, got it setup and currently running the firmware update. I know the file is like 1.5GB but holy crap it's slooooow. Been going for 30 minutes now and still only 27%.

First impressions: I'm VERY happy I went with the 48" over the 40". After using my 30" + 2 portrait 24" setup for so long, doing multi-tasking on anything smaller than this 48" would have drove me nuts. That's about the only impression I have so far, LOL, still waiting for this ridiculously long firmware update.
 

Ziran

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
173
Interesting, to me these graphs looked like there is not much difference between JS and the JU7xxx

JU7100 - http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/ju7100/ju7100-backlight-large.jpg
JS8500 - http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/js8500/js8500-backlight-large.jpg

Am I misunderstanding something ?

I agree, the 6500 looks very drastic with sharp falls, and if those graphs are correct, it can probably be more troublesome for PWM sensitive people.
http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/ju6500/ju6500-backlight-large.jpg

I do not know about motion blur/response time on the JS series in comparison to JU7xxxx, it might be better than even the JU7100, but this is just a pure guess :)

The major differences are:

Red color looks significantly redder and brighter on JS9000 (if you put them side by side the JU7500 red looks like muddy orange)

Green color is brighter on JS9000 (looks similar just brighter). So given the two above you can use Warm1 setting as the blue is not as overwhelming as it is on JU7500

It comes with full (upgradeable) one connect box (has 8 core processor instead of 4). So in theory when the 2016 models come out you can buy a 2016 one connect box and connect it to JS9000 and get whatever upgrades it brings.

Basically JU7500 is great until you put it side by side with JS9000 then it looks kinda muddy in comparison. The end result is similar to difference between regular and wide gamut LED back lights.

The only thing I don't like about the JS9000 is the stand. I like the JU stand better

One additonal thing. JS9000 has a 10 bit panel and supports HDR. JU7500 has an 8 bit panel with no HDR support. Does not really matter for gaming but there is starting to be some HDR TV content available:

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/te...-next-big-shift-in-home-entertainment-1280990
 
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Ziran

Limp Gawd
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Mar 26, 2015
Messages
173
Interesting anecdote, after reading those articles I played around a bit with TV and Nvidia settings.

Samsung HDMI Black Level: Auto; Nvidia RGB: Full = Passes Contrast and Black Level tests
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Normal; Nvidia RGB: Full = Passes Contrast and Black Level tests but appears slightly washed out (brightness) compared to Auto:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Low; Nvidia RGB: Full = Looks like Auto:Full

Samsung HDMI Black Level: Auto; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Normal; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Low; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full

Take that for what you will, as they are only my observations. My previous point was to use the settings that look good to you, not that one particular setting is right or wrong.

As Cyph pointed out the HDMI black level bug was fixed. So no more need of YCbCr mode.

Just set full RGB mode in control panel and HDMI black level to normal in TV. The monitor saves that setting now when its powered off.
 
Joined
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Messages
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I'm having a very difficult time deciding between the JU7500 and the Crossover 404k. While I feel I get a better guarantee of quality with the Samsung plus the curve, my concern is with the input lag while using 4:4:4.
 

Ziran

Limp Gawd
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Mar 26, 2015
Messages
173
I'm having a very difficult time deciding between the JU7500 and the Crossover 404k. While I feel I get a better guarantee of quality with the Samsung plus the curve, my concern is with the input lag while using 4:4:4.

Well samsung TVs have excellent input lag both in PC and GAME mode. I use PC mode for everything and I do not see any input lag.

If you are doing something that requires very fast moving images (i.e. first person shooters) just switch to GAME mode. You will never see the occasional tiny discolorations that 4-2-2 introduces in fast moving images. They are visible on desktop because you have a static image with fine text.
 

mkia

n00b
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Apr 6, 2015
Messages
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So with all this mention of YCbCr or RGB and HDMI Black Level, I became curious and found some interesting articles:

RGB Full vs Limited
Correcting HDMI Colour on Nvidia and AMD GPUs
Samsung Black Level and Nvidia Settings
HDMI Enhanced Black Levels, xvYCC and RGB

Interesting bits pulled from the links:
TVs use a video range from 16-235. It considers levels below 16 to be black, and information above 235 is white. A calibrated TV will never display anything below 16 as anything other than black. Most will also treat everything over 235 as white since it should not exist in video content.

PCs are different and use a range from 0-255. There is no data below 0 or above 255 with an 8-bit video signal as there are only 256 possible values. In short, this is much simpler to understand as the TV concepts of Blacker-than-Black and Whiter-than-White do not exist.

Nvidia/AMD may need tweaking to enforce full RGB over HDMI. Note: I think Nvidia fixed this in their drivers recently.

Samsung HDMI Level Normal/Low may have been and may still be swapped (i.e. Normal is Limited Ranged (Video Spec) and Low is Full Range (PC Spec). Evidently there are quite a few AVSforum posts about this.

The HDMI 1.3 Specification states that: "Black and white levels for video components shall be either “Full Range” or “Limited Range.” YCbCr components shall always be Limited Range while RGB components may be either Full Range or Limited Range. While using RGB, Limited Range shall be used for all video formats defined in CEA-861-D, with the exception of VGA (640x480) format, which requires Full Range."
Which implies when you force YCbCr from your video card over HDMI you are forcing limited range even though technically YCbCr can output full range.
FYI, it does not appear this portion of the specification has changed from 1.3 to 2.0. Still attempting to track this down but, it appears they added the capability for full range "YCbCr" in 1.3 as xvYCC.

What does all this mean? Well my take away is that configure your display/videocard the way that looks best to you and be done with it. In my case, that is a lower contrast ratio (not 100 more like 80), HDMI Level on Low and Nvidia set to RGB/Full. Your mileage may vary; void where prohibited.
Interesting anecdote, after reading those articles I played around a bit with TV and Nvidia settings.

Samsung HDMI Black Level: Auto; Nvidia RGB: Full = Passes Contrast and Black Level tests
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Normal; Nvidia RGB: Full = Passes Contrast and Black Level tests but appears slightly washed out (brightness) compared to Auto:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Low; Nvidia RGB: Full = Looks like Auto:Full

Samsung HDMI Black Level: Auto; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Normal; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Low; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full

Take that for what you will, as they are only my observations. My previous point was to use the settings that look good to you, not that one particular setting is right or wrong.

Zarathustra[H];1041719990 said:
Did you also check the YCBR 444 mode?

Just did.

YCBR444/Limited mode looks like Normal:Full
It should also be noted that HDMI Black Level is greyed out when choosing this output mode.

So based on my totally non-scientific A/B test does this imply that Auto/Low are both Full Range?
 
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Ziran

Limp Gawd
Joined
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Messages
173
Just did.

YCBR444 mode looks like Normal:Full
It should also be noted that HDMI Black Level is greyed out when choosing this output mode.

So based on my totally non-scientific A/B test does this imply that Auto/Low are both Full Range?

On Samsung TVs:

Auto/Low = limited range
Normal = full range
YCbCr = limited range (forced)
 
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