New Ryzen 2 (Pinnacle Ridge) gets only 200 MHz boost according to a leak

If I do a Zen+ build, I'm going to tell my friends and neighbors it's on a 5nm process. Because.

;)
 
Remember that Thunderbolt ostensibly requires video output, so should only be available on APUs.

Technically.

AMD should be putting a 'base' Radeon into every Ryzen they ship anyway, so maybe they'll rectify that with Ryzen 2?

You mean RyZen 3 and I don't see this happening.
 
Here is the deal with you insisting what AMD is using is such a inferior process...

Mentioning what 12LP is not wouldn't hurt anyone really interested in tech: 12LP is not a die shrink. 12LP is not 12nm, 12LP is not 12FDX, 12LP is not related to Samsung 11LPP...

12LP is an extension of 14LPP, even Globalfoundries chief admits it!

These next chips will allow higher speed and that is really all AMD needs

We have known for a while (myself since 2015) that Pinnacle Ridge brings higher clocks than Summit Ridge. So stop repeating something that no one is debating.
 
Mentioning what 12LP is not wouldn't hurt anyone really interested in tech: 12LP is not a die shrink. 12LP is not 12nm, 12LP is not 12FDX, 12LP is not related to Samsung 11LPP...

12LP is an extension of 14LPP, even Globalfoundries chief admits it!



We have known for a while (myself since 2015) that Pinnacle Ridge brings higher clocks than Summit Ridge. So stop repeating something that no one is debating.
JFC! He isn't predicting, or like pretending to have predicted, anything. He is stating the greater share of the populous doesn't give a flying horse poop about 12nm/lp... But rather the performance over last gen/series. But your posts as usual in their attempt to derail and diffuse the positive upbeat have once again missed the point entirely.
 
This was a garbage thread by the op anyhow. At least they are staying here with all of this fake 12nm stuff.

So please keep leading them on here. This thread is an effective trash bin for the rest of the forum.

Gotta love the CNL excitement over in the Intel forums. So is that like Skylake 4.0? Actually maybe it is Skylake 5.0 since there are rumors of Whiskey Lake. 14nm+++? LOL!!!
 
Mentioning what 12LP is not wouldn't hurt anyone really interested in tech: 12LP is not a die shrink. 12LP is not 12nm, 12LP is not 12FDX, 12LP is not related to Samsung 11LPP...

12LP is an extension of 14LPP, even Globalfoundries chief admits it!



We have known for a while (myself since 2015) that Pinnacle Ridge brings higher clocks than Summit Ridge. So stop repeating something that no one is debating.

You still dont get the fact no one cares, it's just a name. Secondly I dont think Kyle is busting out a electron microscope to just to see what nm those gates are for Intel or AMD, cause no one cares. Least it's more inventive naming then 14nm +++.
 
I remember reading somewhere that not only is it a chance to clean up the first gen process for cpu, but they're also doing the same on the motherboard chipset side. Sounds like a good iterative step. I'm still on intel x58, so I'm just deciding if I should jump early to Zen+ or holdout until Zen2 haha.
 
I remember reading somewhere that not only is it a chance to clean up the first gen process for cpu, but they're also doing the same on the motherboard chipset side. Sounds like a good iterative step. I'm still on intel x58, so I'm just deciding if I should jump early to Zen+ or holdout until Zen2 haha.

Tough to say, nice thing is if you make the jump to Zen+, Zen2 will work on it if it ends up being a lot better. I'm in a wait and see mode, if the top chip (2800X?) does 4.0 all core XFR and 4.4 on 2 core XFR, I might just grab one of the chips as that will be a pretty big jump from my 1700 and no guarantee Zen2 will work on the b350/x370's. If it gets confirmed that zen2 will work on the 3xx chipset, then I'll probably wait for that.
 
A lot of posts about whether AMD using the name "Zen+" is good or not. Who cares? It's not even a marketing name, really, since we already know from a marketing perspective it will be Ryzen 2xxx. Ryzen 1xxx -> 2xxx. No different than Core ix 6xxx -> 7xxx for Skylake to Kaby. Just like Skylake had a different internal name than Kaby, same with Summit Ridge vs Pinnacle Ridge. So who cares if AMD also has another name they use for it? The process names are admittedly confusing as hell but that's not AMD's fault. Blame GloFo for that.

Can we go back to speculating about what Zen+ will actually offer in terms of performance increases? That's what I'm interested in. I was wondering earlier if the 2600 might only incorporate a +200MHz bump because to go any higher would push it past the 1600X. I am wondering if we'll see a bigger clockspeed bump on the X branded products than we see on the vanilla flavors.
 
A lot of posts about whether AMD using the name "Zen+" is good or not. Who cares? It's not even a marketing name, really, since we already know from a marketing perspective it will be Ryzen 2xxx. Ryzen 1xxx -> 2xxx. No different than Core ix 6xxx -> 7xxx for Skylake to Kaby. Just like Skylake had a different internal name than Kaby, same with Summit Ridge vs Pinnacle Ridge. So who cares if AMD also has another name they use for it? The process names are admittedly confusing as hell but that's not AMD's fault. Blame GloFo for that.

Can we go back to speculating about what Zen+ will actually offer in terms of performance increases? That's what I'm interested in. I was wondering earlier if the 2600 might only incorporate a +200MHz bump because to go any higher would push it past the 1600X. I am wondering if we'll see a bigger clockspeed bump on the X branded products than we see on the vanilla flavors.

Agree, people are getting work up over a trivial matter. I do expect 5% to 10% increase in clock while still having the same power envelope, though to be honest, I am more interested what X470 chipset will bring.
 
As a genuine hardforum prophet, my prediction is that AMD didn't like the fact that everyone who reviewed the Ryzen line-up decided to go for the non-X Ryzen chips in their recommendations. The major "people's champ" products are the 1600 and the 1700. The X versions costing more, not having huge increases in clockspeed and requiring an additional cooler purchase.

It's hard to sell someone a 1600X + decent cooling only to see the combo within spitting distance to a 1700 price-wise, and the 1700 comes with a legitimate cooler.

So my guess is that AMD will try to widen the gap between the standard SKUs and their X counterparts.
 
Mentioning what 12LP is not wouldn't hurt anyone really interested in tech: 12LP is not a die shrink. 12LP is not 12nm, 12LP is not 12FDX, 12LP is not related to Samsung 11LPP...

12LP is an extension of 14LPP, even Globalfoundries chief admits it!



We have known for a while (myself since 2015) that Pinnacle Ridge brings higher clocks than Summit Ridge. So stop repeating something that no one is debating.

Nobody cares what that guy calls it.
 
no thanks i don't need an IGP on my gaming system. i'd prefer them to keep doing what they're doing by not putting igp's on their high end processors.

It's always nice to have video output regardless of external GPU, and many use these for extra displays, even while (or especially while) gaming.
 
I can say, as a system builder, Ryzen looses a LOT of sales because of its lack of integrated video.
 
per the last report, iGPU solutions account for up to 30% of total Desktop sales, this is why maybe the Ryzen/Vega APU's were a little to slow to market, AMD lost out a lot of sales in a very prominent sector. A ryzen APU just about beats Intel solutions in overall experience for a person in that segment will need it for ie: multimedia. So it was the only blemish on a successful 2017 for unit sales.
 
A lot of posts about whether AMD using the name "Zen+" is good or not. Who cares? It's not even a marketing name, really, since we already know from a marketing perspective it will be Ryzen 2xxx. Ryzen 1xxx -> 2xxx. No different than Core ix 6xxx -> 7xxx for Skylake to Kaby. Just like Skylake had a different internal name than Kaby, same with Summit Ridge vs Pinnacle Ridge. So who cares if AMD also has another name they use for it? The process names are admittedly confusing as hell but that's not AMD's fault. Blame GloFo for that.

A list of differences between Skylake and Kabylake was given in #139 including the new graphics microarchitecture. Everyone agrees that Kabylake and Skylake have the same CPU cores, despite Kabylake uses a different process node (14nm+) and has improvements as Speed Shift v2. However, AMD guys pretend that Pinnacle Ridge has different cores than Summit Ridge only by using 14nm+ and having Precision Boost 2.

Not only I am using the same standard for both Intel and AMD, but those 'innovations' that are attributed to Zen+ are already present in the Zen cores in Raven Ridge.

I was wondering earlier if the 2600 might only incorporate a +200MHz bump because to go any higher would push it past the 1600X. I am wondering if we'll see a bigger clockspeed bump on the X branded products than we see on the vanilla flavors.

The chip leaked is a qualification sample. Usually qualification samples have the same specs than the commercial processors. E.g. the qualification samples for the 1800X/1700X/1700 had the same clocks than the final processors you can get in stores, as demonstrated in this thread.

It is true that the CPU clocks for Raven Ridge qualification samples differ from the clocks for the final processors. However, those processors are APUs. A minimal change/improvement in the iGPU side, can reduce the power consumption and leave more thermal room for increasing the clocks on the CPU side. This freedom is not available on Pinnacle Ridge.

The leaked qualification sample for 6C/12T Pinnacle Ridge brings 200MHz extra over the corresponding 6C/12T Summit Ridge processor.

The top 4C/8T Summit Ridge has 3.5/3.7GHz clocks. The top 4C/8T Raven Ridge has 3.6/3.9GHz clocks. Is it causality that the 14nm+ chip also runs at 100/200MHz higher than the 14nm chip?

All info available points to Pinnacle Ridge processors having about 6% extra MHz for base/boost and about 12% extra MHz for XFR compared to Summit Ridge analogs. Higher clocks for Pinnacle Ridge processors cannot be totally ruled out, of course, but 200--400MHz extra seems a good estimation.
 
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A list of differences between Skylake and Kabylake was given in #139 including the new graphics microarchitecture. Everyone agrees that Kabylake and Skylake have the same CPU cores, despite Kabylake uses a different process node (14nm+) and has improvements as Speed Shift v2. However, AMD guys pretend that Pinnacle Ridge has different cores than Summit Ridge only by using 14nm+ and having Precision Boost 2.

Not only I am using the same standard for both Intel and AMD, but those 'innovations' that are attributed to Zen+ are already present in the Zen cores in Raven Ridge.



The chip leaked is a qualification sample. Usually qualification samples have the same specs than the commercial processors. E.g. the qualification samples for the 1800X/1700X/1700 had the same clocks than the final processors you can get in stores, as demonstrated in this thread.

It is true that the CPU clocks for Raven Ridge qualification samples differ from the clocks for the final processors. However, those processors are APUs. A minimal change/improvement in the iGPU side, can reduce the power consumption and leave more thermal room for increasing the clocks on the CPU side. This freedom is not available on Pinnacle Ridge.

The leaked qualification sample for 6C/12T Pinnacle Ridge brings 200MHz extra over the corresponding 6C/12T Summit Ridge processor.

The top 4C/8T Summit Ridge has 3.5/3.7GHz clocks. The top 4C/8T Raven Ridge has 3.6/3.9GHz clocks. Is it causality that the 14nm+ chip also runs at 100/200MHz higher than the 14nm chip?

All info available points to Pinnacle Ridge processors having about 6% extra MHz for base/boost and about 12% extra MHz for XFR compared to Summit Ridge analogs. Higher clocks for Pinnacle Ridge processors cannot be totally ruled out, of course, but 200--400MHz extra seems a good estimation.
The Captain obvious award goes to ..............

You do realize you said absolutely nothing here right? You see most here are taking a wait and see or a better way to put it is "They will believe it when they see it" kinda thing. No one cares about nitpicking naming nomenclature or stating the same thing over and over.
 
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The Captain obvious award goes to ..............

You do realize you said absolutely nothing here right? You see most here are taking a wait and see or a better way to put it is "They will believe it when they see it" kinda thing. No one cares about nitpicking naming nomenclature or stating the same thing over and over.

lol is he still on the naming scheme tangent? honestly starting to think he's just a bot at this point..
 
The Captain obvious award goes to ..............

You do realize you said absolutely nothing here right? You see most here are taking a wait and see or a better way to put it is "They will believe it when they see it" kinda thing. No one cares about nitpicking naming nomenclature or stating the same thing over and over.

My contributions to this thread are:

(1) Stating the leaked chip is a qualification sample, not an engineering sample.
(2) Explanation of the differences between qualification samples and engineering samples.
(3) Some discussion about 400-series mobos and memory.
(4) Analysis of the leaked clocks and comparison with clocks achieved by RR on the same process node.
(5) Refutation of hype about rebranded cores and process nodes.

I am not the one that is posting here irrelevant messages about WoW gameplay on FX 8350.
 
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all out of warnings... banned permanently
My contributions to this thread are:

(1) Stating the leaked chip is a qualification sample, not an engineering sample.
(2) Explanation of the differences between qualification samples and engineering samples.
(3) Some discussion about 400-series mobos and memory.
(4) Analysis of the leaked clocks and comparison with clocks achieved by RR on the same process node.
(5) Refutation of hype about rebranded cores and process nodes.

I am not the only that is posting here irrelevant messages about WoW gameplay on FX 8350.
because you don't know shit. You only attempt to obfuscate any positive discussions by derailing them into a circle jerk of irrelevant drivel.
1. Nobody cares
2. Still nobody cares
3. You have no clue
4. Nobody cares
5. And finally again... Nobody cares.

You have no relevant information, only self-contrived crap. You argued semantics on nodes and nomenclature, nobody cares. You attempt to split hairs about whether the CPU is different or same even in the face of facts that you have yet to respond DIRECTLY to( note the fn bold ). Again nobody cares.

In general all your points have garnered the same reaction, NOBODY CARES.
 
seem like ice lake is the thing to go with. cause they will always deliver, and we migth get them 8c/16 thread. it will destroy amd for sure sadly.
 
seem like ice lake is the thing to go with. cause they will always deliver, and we migth get them 8c/16 thread. it will destroy amd for sure sadly.

Might be a little premature to say that since Zen3 (actual Zen2 not Zen+) will be out around the same time, gotta wait until then before predicting the demise of AMD.
 
no i wont do that, but by past. i do think amd is not far behind, it's superior on alot of ways. but gaming it fell short. but if we get that sweet ipc increase ontop of another 500mhz clocked. no doubt. for all we know they release a 10 core variant soon. i know it wont come with zen+ but. im not too up to date but.
 
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no i wont do that, but by past. i do think amd is not far behind, it's superior on alot of ways. but gaming it fell short. but if we get that sweet ipc increase ontop of another 500mhz clocked. no doubt. for all we know they release a 10 core variant. im not too up to date but.

While Ryzen didn't win the gaming benchmark, they are actually not that far behind if you look at [H] comparison. If you want pure gaming performance, by all means go Intel, but Ryzen is no slouch in the department and especially if you have a budget. I don't expect IPC increase with Zen2, just clock increase, I do expect IPC increase in Zen3 but then it will go against IceLake. I gotta say, I enjoy CPU competition again, been very lacking for the past decade.
 
While Ryzen didn't win the gaming benchmark, they are actually not that far behind if you look at [H] comparison. If you want pure gaming performance, by all means go Intel, but Ryzen is no slouch in the department and especially if you have a budget. I don't expect IPC increase with Zen2, just clock increase, I do expect IPC increase in Zen3 but then it will go against IceLake. I gotta say, I enjoy CPU competition again, been very lacking for the past decade.

Ryzen makes sense for the 4C/8T that are priced below the 8600k- but at that point, there's little reason to go with a part with slower clocks and lower IPC for a gaming-focused rig.
 
Ryzen makes sense for the 4C/8T that are priced below the 8600k- but at that point, there's little reason to go with a part with slower clocks and lower IPC for a gaming-focused rig.

I agree, I built a 8700k specifically for gaming, but going with Ryzen for gaming isn't a slouch either.
 
While Ryzen didn't win the gaming benchmark, they are actually not that far behind if you look at [H] comparison. If you want pure gaming performance, by all means go Intel, but Ryzen is no slouch in the department and especially if you have a budget. I don't expect IPC increase with Zen2, just clock increase, I do expect IPC increase in Zen3 but then it will go against IceLake. I gotta say, I enjoy CPU competition again, been very lacking for the past decade.

If I understand you correctly you are using Zen2 to refer to Zen+ cores (aka Zen) and using Zen3 to refer to Zen2 cores.

Although I agree with you on that Zen+ cores will not bring any IPC increase (they are just rebranded Zen cores), Pinnacle Ridge processor will bring a small IPC increase compared to Summit Ridge.

Total IPC of a processor is a nonlinear function of the IPC of the cores, the IPC of the last level cache, and the IPC of the memory. Pinnacle Ridge has higher IPC_L3 and higher IPC_mem by virtue of clocking both higher. It is the same reason why a 1800X with memory at 3200MHz has slightly higher IPC than a 1800X with memory on stock settings.
 
I agree, I built a 8700k specifically for gaming, but going with Ryzen for gaming isn't a slouch either.

Now that they memory compatibility issues have been mostly ironed out, I'd recommend them for most things except pure gaming, including a mixed-use box.

Of course, AMD's window is slim here: they're unlikely to get clockspeeds or IPC up to Intel's standard- which Intel will be working on improving- and Intel needs only reduce prices and/or release an 8C16T consumer part to reduce Ryzen's appeal to practically nothing.

And a good part of me feels that Intel is specifically not doing this just to make sure AMD as some breathing room.
 
If intel kills AMD... someone in the goverment ( eventually ) will label them as a monopoly..
 
If I understand you correctly you are using Zen2 to refer to Zen+ cores (aka Zen) and using Zen3 to refer to Zen2 cores.

Although I agree with you on that Zen+ cores will not bring any IPC increase (they are just rebranded Zen cores), Pinnacle Ridge processor will bring a small IPC increase compared to Summit Ridge.

Total IPC of a processor is a nonlinear function of the IPC of the cores, the IPC of the last level cache, and the IPC of the memory. Pinnacle Ridge has higher IPC_L3 and higher IPC_mem by virtue of clocking both higher. It is the same reason why a 1800X with memory at 3200MHz has slightly higher IPC than a 1800X with memory on stock settings.

That is correct, Zen+ as Zen2 and Zen2 as Zen3, wish they just stick with Zen+ but and leave Zen2 the way it is but whatever. Like IdiotinCharge said, I do expect AMD to iron out most of the memory compatibility issue.
 
Wow I cannot believe this thread went on that long with nothing but misinformation! Wonder if I will get banned too.....hmmmmmm! Those of you saying that 12nm LP is not this or that are totally WRONG! Every process is an evolution of the prior process so 12nm is an refinement of 14nm geez....why is that concept so difficult for you to understand! The information is out there for those that have an open mind....it is not marketing speak but a real concept.
 
Like IdiotinCharge said, I do expect AMD to iron out most of the memory compatibility issue.

Apparently the new memory controller can be overclocked to 3600MHz stable and like AMD's James said: "400 Series motherboards are designed to improve memory stability and overclocking".
 
Intel is always pricier at 6/8/12/16 cores all the way up, and they don't have a track record of reducing prices when they have a better product. A likely $379 consumer 8C/16T part would still likely be only 15-20% faster than AMD but cost 33-40% more money.
Ryzen makes sense for the 4C/8T that are priced below the 8600k- but at that point, there's little reason to go with a part with slower clocks and lower IPC for a gaming-focused rig.

A 8600k is $270. Pretty much the entire Ryzen lineup is under that if you shop around. You can get a Ryzen 7 1700 for $250. So 8C/16T Ryzen clocking 3.8-4Ghz or a 6C/6T Intel part clocking to 5Ghz for more money?
 
Intel is always pricier at 6/8/12/16 cores all the way up, and they don't have a track record of reducing prices when they have a better product. A likely $379 consumer 8C/16T part would still likely be only 15-20% faster than AMD but cost 33-40% more money.

I'm sure you'll agree that performance increases rarely scale directly with price, and that the gap you mention is fairly reasonable given that you're going to Intel's top-of-the-line consumer SKU, especially given that it's the fastest consumer SKU available.

Further, the price difference should be considered in context of system price too.


A 8600k is $270. Pretty much the entire Ryzen lineup is under that if you shop around. You can get a Ryzen 7 1700 for $250. So 8C/16T Ryzen clocking 3.8-4Ghz or a 6C/6T Intel part clocking to 5Ghz for more money?

With more performance in applications that matter? For gamers, yes. Anyone else? I've regularly stated that's a hard no, unless the application(s) being used as an upgrade motivation are also extremely sensitive to single-core performance.
 
A likely $379 consumer 8C/16T part would still likely be only 15-20% faster than AMD but cost 33-40% more money.

Pricing is a nonlinear function of performance. E.g. getting 15% more IPC from A CPU requires about 30% more transistors in the design. So the faster chip will cost at least 30% more...
 
Pricing is a nonlinear function of performance. E.g. getting 15% more IPC from A CPU requires about 30% more transistors in the design. So the faster chip will cost at least 30% more...

Pricing has no correlation with performance beyond what Intel decides the market will bear.
Their asking price assuredly exceeds the production cost of their chips, else they would make no profit.
Identical chip architectures with the same transistor count are binned and sold at varying price points with different features enabled / disabled by fuses and microcode. The cost of physical die production for each of these SKUs will be essentially the same.
Your argument is invalid.
 
Your argument is invalid.

Your argument is invalid. You're using cost to determine pricing, when the two are only very loosely related- something you seem to understand yet choose to ignore in your non-rebuttal.

Maybe a little education will help. You know, before every computer processor price range from every significant manufacturer in the history of CPUs is listed as an example.
 
Wow I cannot believe this thread went on that long with nothing but misinformation! Wonder if I will get banned too.....hmmmmmm! Those of you saying that 12nm LP is not this or that are totally WRONG! Every process is an evolution of the prior process so 12nm is an refinement of 14nm geez....why is that concept so difficult for you to understand! The information is out there for those that have an open mind....it is not marketing speak but a real concept.
So you continue to spread mis information......bangs head

And the discussion above about value, your forgetting about the igp, ryzen loses value, it's not just cut and dry
 
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