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Remember that Thunderbolt ostensibly requires video output, so should only be available on APUs.
Technically.
AMD should be putting a 'base' Radeon into every Ryzen they ship anyway, so maybe they'll rectify that with Ryzen 2?
Here is the deal with you insisting what AMD is using is such a inferior process...
These next chips will allow higher speed and that is really all AMD needs
JFC! He isn't predicting, or like pretending to have predicted, anything. He is stating the greater share of the populous doesn't give a flying horse poop about 12nm/lp... But rather the performance over last gen/series. But your posts as usual in their attempt to derail and diffuse the positive upbeat have once again missed the point entirely.Mentioning what 12LP is not wouldn't hurt anyone really interested in tech: 12LP is not a die shrink. 12LP is not 12nm, 12LP is not 12FDX, 12LP is not related to Samsung 11LPP...
12LP is an extension of 14LPP, even Globalfoundries chief admits it!
We have known for a while (myself since 2015) that Pinnacle Ridge brings higher clocks than Summit Ridge. So stop repeating something that no one is debating.
Mentioning what 12LP is not wouldn't hurt anyone really interested in tech: 12LP is not a die shrink. 12LP is not 12nm, 12LP is not 12FDX, 12LP is not related to Samsung 11LPP...
12LP is an extension of 14LPP, even Globalfoundries chief admits it!
We have known for a while (myself since 2015) that Pinnacle Ridge brings higher clocks than Summit Ridge. So stop repeating something that no one is debating.
I remember reading somewhere that not only is it a chance to clean up the first gen process for cpu, but they're also doing the same on the motherboard chipset side. Sounds like a good iterative step. I'm still on intel x58, so I'm just deciding if I should jump early to Zen+ or holdout until Zen2 haha.
A lot of posts about whether AMD using the name "Zen+" is good or not. Who cares? It's not even a marketing name, really, since we already know from a marketing perspective it will be Ryzen 2xxx. Ryzen 1xxx -> 2xxx. No different than Core ix 6xxx -> 7xxx for Skylake to Kaby. Just like Skylake had a different internal name than Kaby, same with Summit Ridge vs Pinnacle Ridge. So who cares if AMD also has another name they use for it? The process names are admittedly confusing as hell but that's not AMD's fault. Blame GloFo for that.
Can we go back to speculating about what Zen+ will actually offer in terms of performance increases? That's what I'm interested in. I was wondering earlier if the 2600 might only incorporate a +200MHz bump because to go any higher would push it past the 1600X. I am wondering if we'll see a bigger clockspeed bump on the X branded products than we see on the vanilla flavors.
Mentioning what 12LP is not wouldn't hurt anyone really interested in tech: 12LP is not a die shrink. 12LP is not 12nm, 12LP is not 12FDX, 12LP is not related to Samsung 11LPP...
12LP is an extension of 14LPP, even Globalfoundries chief admits it!
We have known for a while (myself since 2015) that Pinnacle Ridge brings higher clocks than Summit Ridge. So stop repeating something that no one is debating.
no thanks i don't need an IGP on my gaming system. i'd prefer them to keep doing what they're doing by not putting igp's on their high end processors.
I can say, as a system builder, Ryzen looses a LOT of sales because of its lack of integrated video.
You still dont get the fact no one cares, it's just a name.
Least it's more inventive naming then 14nm +++.
A lot of posts about whether AMD using the name "Zen+" is good or not. Who cares? It's not even a marketing name, really, since we already know from a marketing perspective it will be Ryzen 2xxx. Ryzen 1xxx -> 2xxx. No different than Core ix 6xxx -> 7xxx for Skylake to Kaby. Just like Skylake had a different internal name than Kaby, same with Summit Ridge vs Pinnacle Ridge. So who cares if AMD also has another name they use for it? The process names are admittedly confusing as hell but that's not AMD's fault. Blame GloFo for that.
I was wondering earlier if the 2600 might only incorporate a +200MHz bump because to go any higher would push it past the 1600X. I am wondering if we'll see a bigger clockspeed bump on the X branded products than we see on the vanilla flavors.
The Captain obvious award goes to ..............A list of differences between Skylake and Kabylake was given in #139 including the new graphics microarchitecture. Everyone agrees that Kabylake and Skylake have the same CPU cores, despite Kabylake uses a different process node (14nm+) and has improvements as Speed Shift v2. However, AMD guys pretend that Pinnacle Ridge has different cores than Summit Ridge only by using 14nm+ and having Precision Boost 2.
Not only I am using the same standard for both Intel and AMD, but those 'innovations' that are attributed to Zen+ are already present in the Zen cores in Raven Ridge.
The chip leaked is a qualification sample. Usually qualification samples have the same specs than the commercial processors. E.g. the qualification samples for the 1800X/1700X/1700 had the same clocks than the final processors you can get in stores, as demonstrated in this thread.
It is true that the CPU clocks for Raven Ridge qualification samples differ from the clocks for the final processors. However, those processors are APUs. A minimal change/improvement in the iGPU side, can reduce the power consumption and leave more thermal room for increasing the clocks on the CPU side. This freedom is not available on Pinnacle Ridge.
The leaked qualification sample for 6C/12T Pinnacle Ridge brings 200MHz extra over the corresponding 6C/12T Summit Ridge processor.
The top 4C/8T Summit Ridge has 3.5/3.7GHz clocks. The top 4C/8T Raven Ridge has 3.6/3.9GHz clocks. Is it causality that the 14nm+ chip also runs at 100/200MHz higher than the 14nm chip?
All info available points to Pinnacle Ridge processors having about 6% extra MHz for base/boost and about 12% extra MHz for XFR compared to Summit Ridge analogs. Higher clocks for Pinnacle Ridge processors cannot be totally ruled out, of course, but 200--400MHz extra seems a good estimation.
The Captain obvious award goes to ..............
You do realize you said absolutely nothing here right? You see most here are taking a wait and see or a better way to put it is "They will believe it when they see it" kinda thing. No one cares about nitpicking naming nomenclature or stating the same thing over and over.
The Captain obvious award goes to ..............
You do realize you said absolutely nothing here right? You see most here are taking a wait and see or a better way to put it is "They will believe it when they see it" kinda thing. No one cares about nitpicking naming nomenclature or stating the same thing over and over.
because you don't know shit. You only attempt to obfuscate any positive discussions by derailing them into a circle jerk of irrelevant drivel.My contributions to this thread are:
(1) Stating the leaked chip is a qualification sample, not an engineering sample.
(2) Explanation of the differences between qualification samples and engineering samples.
(3) Some discussion about 400-series mobos and memory.
(4) Analysis of the leaked clocks and comparison with clocks achieved by RR on the same process node.
(5) Refutation of hype about rebranded cores and process nodes.
I am not the only that is posting here irrelevant messages about WoW gameplay on FX 8350.
seem like ice lake is the thing to go with. cause they will always deliver, and we migth get them 8c/16 thread. it will destroy amd for sure sadly.
no i wont do that, but by past. i do think amd is not far behind, it's superior on alot of ways. but gaming it fell short. but if we get that sweet ipc increase ontop of another 500mhz clocked. no doubt. for all we know they release a 10 core variant. im not too up to date but.
While Ryzen didn't win the gaming benchmark, they are actually not that far behind if you look at [H] comparison. If you want pure gaming performance, by all means go Intel, but Ryzen is no slouch in the department and especially if you have a budget. I don't expect IPC increase with Zen2, just clock increase, I do expect IPC increase in Zen3 but then it will go against IceLake. I gotta say, I enjoy CPU competition again, been very lacking for the past decade.
Ryzen makes sense for the 4C/8T that are priced below the 8600k- but at that point, there's little reason to go with a part with slower clocks and lower IPC for a gaming-focused rig.
While Ryzen didn't win the gaming benchmark, they are actually not that far behind if you look at [H] comparison. If you want pure gaming performance, by all means go Intel, but Ryzen is no slouch in the department and especially if you have a budget. I don't expect IPC increase with Zen2, just clock increase, I do expect IPC increase in Zen3 but then it will go against IceLake. I gotta say, I enjoy CPU competition again, been very lacking for the past decade.
I agree, I built a 8700k specifically for gaming, but going with Ryzen for gaming isn't a slouch either.
If I understand you correctly you are using Zen2 to refer to Zen+ cores (aka Zen) and using Zen3 to refer to Zen2 cores.
Although I agree with you on that Zen+ cores will not bring any IPC increase (they are just rebranded Zen cores), Pinnacle Ridge processor will bring a small IPC increase compared to Summit Ridge.
Total IPC of a processor is a nonlinear function of the IPC of the cores, the IPC of the last level cache, and the IPC of the memory. Pinnacle Ridge has higher IPC_L3 and higher IPC_mem by virtue of clocking both higher. It is the same reason why a 1800X with memory at 3200MHz has slightly higher IPC than a 1800X with memory on stock settings.
Like IdiotinCharge said, I do expect AMD to iron out most of the memory compatibility issue.
Ryzen makes sense for the 4C/8T that are priced below the 8600k- but at that point, there's little reason to go with a part with slower clocks and lower IPC for a gaming-focused rig.
Intel is always pricier at 6/8/12/16 cores all the way up, and they don't have a track record of reducing prices when they have a better product. A likely $379 consumer 8C/16T part would still likely be only 15-20% faster than AMD but cost 33-40% more money.
A 8600k is $270. Pretty much the entire Ryzen lineup is under that if you shop around. You can get a Ryzen 7 1700 for $250. So 8C/16T Ryzen clocking 3.8-4Ghz or a 6C/6T Intel part clocking to 5Ghz for more money?
A likely $379 consumer 8C/16T part would still likely be only 15-20% faster than AMD but cost 33-40% more money.
Pricing is a nonlinear function of performance. E.g. getting 15% more IPC from A CPU requires about 30% more transistors in the design. So the faster chip will cost at least 30% more...
Your argument is invalid.
So you continue to spread mis information......bangs headWow I cannot believe this thread went on that long with nothing but misinformation! Wonder if I will get banned too.....hmmmmmm! Those of you saying that 12nm LP is not this or that are totally WRONG! Every process is an evolution of the prior process so 12nm is an refinement of 14nm geez....why is that concept so difficult for you to understand! The information is out there for those that have an open mind....it is not marketing speak but a real concept.