Yea, I system restored, then installed all but the two April updates. Seems to not be annoying me now. So I guess that's the end of security updates for my windows 8.1 system that is supposed to still be in full support. That's the issue.
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New Processors Are Now Blocked from Receiving Updates on Old Windows
- Thread starter Megalith
- Start date
Yea, I system restored, then installed all but the two April updates. Seems to not be annoying me now. So I guess that's the end of security updates for my windows 8.1 system that is supposed to still be in full support. That's the issue.
Hagrid
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I wonder why any software/hardware company would want to make an item Win 10 only. How many potential customers are lost from 7/8/8.1? Just seems weird to me.
Is it really that difficult to make it compatible with 7/8?
Is it really that difficult to make it compatible with 7/8?
Nenu
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It is compatible, it works fine.
Microsoft dont like that because it doesnt promote downgrading to Windows 10.
They had a hissy fit and redefined what support means.
Their word means nothing.
Its simple really....
As others have said windows is in decline... Developers play nice but all secretly (and some very much not secretly) hate MS. All the anti MS hate you see around here you also see on programmer hang out sites. The numbers of people willing to say Man I hate MS grow all the time. lol
I have pulled out my crystal ball many times... and if you want me to tell you how I believe it will go down this is it.
First I never said it will happen tomorrow... I would say 4-5 years is what MS has left and here are my reasons.
- game development takes an average of 4 years or so. Currently Vulkan is catching fire with developers... there are more games being developed to support vulkan then DX12. There are even more games being developed for Sonys GNMX.
- Sony has started playing very nice with Google. Recently Sony open sourced a bunch of Audio codecs that they have been hyper protective of for close to 20 years. They allowed the Mini disc platform to die rather then allow other companies to use their compression tech... and now they have made it free so Google could add it to android.
- Google has been pushing into MS territory for years. They started with phones... and we can say that wasn't MS territory. But it was wasn't it. Apple got the news but MS was selling devices longer and did not bad at one time. They squeezed BB and MS right out of the market. They have also set their sights on lower end laptops (and previous desktop users) with chrome books... and have been improving chromeos ever since.
- IMO its only a matter of time before google goes in for the kill in regards to consumer class devices. ChromeOS Pro is coming... and MS knows it. Its only a matter of time before google goes after the higher end laptop market and I don't believe its far off. When they go their running ChromeOS Pro on a desktop PC shouldn't be a bit deal.
- Now assuming that happens.... Sony likes to keep things locked down, and ChromeOS is for sure locked down. I would not be shocked at all to see one of 2 things happen. One Sony just goes all in and open sources GNMX for use in ChromeOS Pro... and populates a Sony/Google Chrome Game store with PS4 class games. Or they provide tools to convert GNMX to Vulkan.
- A Sony/Google store doesn't populate a Linux Store of course.... but unless google makes some crazy change a ChromeOS pro will still be Linux powered. At that point a company like Steam that already has great developer support could be in a great position to strike a direct deal, and heck might even find itself on a ChromeOS Pro desktop over a Sony/Google version. Or worst case developers themselves may be able to publish their games on Steam easier then they can for Windows.
That is how I see it unfolding for MS... we'll see. Its far out. I have never said Linux was the best game platform today. It won't be tomorrow either. In a few years though... yes I doubt MS is able to hang on to their current position.
DeathFromBelow
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This is the key to growth. Most 'other OS' market share is Chrome OS simply because there are cheap Chromebooks in Walmarts everywhere.
I have a 15" HP i3 notebook that I got for $400. The first thing I did was rip out the slow 1TB hard drive with Windows 10 and put in a 250GB SSD with Linux Mint. OEM's really need to question the value of bundling a Windows 10 license in these budget and midrange machines when Linux and an SSD offers a vastly superior user experience. What value does 10 add for most users? Software compatibility is less of an issue than ever, and I imagine most users who 'need' Windows for a particular program or feature are going to be going with a Pro version anyway.
heatlesssun
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Software availability.
heatlesssun
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I couldn't care less about being called a shill in an anonymous forum. It's just that I actually agree that Microsoft shouldn't be blocking these updates and so like how does that make me a shill when I'm flat out saying that I disagree with Microsoft? Perhaps some don't understand what a shill is I guess?
DeathFromBelow
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I have more Linux compatible games than free time to play. All my favorite games run on Linux and all my hardware 'just works.' I don't need to keep a Windows machine around for random programs like I did years ago. Linux on the desktop has become a viable platform for home users.
How's that Windows app store going?
BulletDust
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The analogy I'm making is that Linux gaming it currently in a better position than Windows gaming was in the 90's, you've got it the wrong way around. Furthermore, while I don't have specific figures I'd be surprised if Windows was always the dominant platform marketshare wise from inception due to outright price of the machines alone. I remember my P100 machine with no accelerator and 100MB HDD costing me well over $2000.00 AU in the day, now convert that to current $$ , it was ludicrous money!
And as a long time Amiga user I wasn't one bit happy about buying it.
As a retro gamer and collector it's one thing that always suprises me about the people that collect early PC hardware and get all nostalgic about it - I don't get it, in the day the PC was a POS in comparison to other offerings. If Commodore weren't (mis)managed by a moron of a CEO things may be vastly different today.
BulletDust
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The reason you grit your teeth and point out what you consider to be a minor MS issue is nothing more than an attempt to deflect the well known on the [H] and more forums that you're a MS shill. Out of all of your 43,000 posts you can pretty guarantee 80% of those would have the word Microsoft in them.
The reason people are hating on MS ATM is perfectly valid and reasonable. As a company they're shunning their customer base not only with Windows 7/8, but with Windows 10 and all of it's issues.
heatlesssun
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There's just many more software options for Windows regardless if you care about them or not. As for the Windows Store, yeah, it's not great but there's useful stuff there. If you're a Netflix user there's not reason not to use the app, tablet or desktop. It's just another option to get software.
heatlesssun
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People have long hated on Microsoft, nothing new.
BulletDust
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As time goes on and more applications move to the cloud that's something that's going to become less of an issue. Hell, since MS fixed their mistake with Office online you can run MS Office under Linux no problem.
Running applications in a browser just makes sense.
rezerekted
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Nope, I have way too many games that will not run on Linux. Unfortunate because I would like to switch completely to Linux.
Name ONE.
I'm being serious.
Name one program an AVERAGE user needs that isn't on Linux.
Don't say MS office... 1) average users don't need an office program anymore. and 2) those that do have already been using Google Docs
Don't say Photoshop... average users buying sub $1000 machines don't buy software that costs $250 a year.
Don't say X or Y 3D game... only 17% of computers even ship with an actual 3d card. Average users don't use their computers to game outside of facebook.
BulletDust
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I wouldn't go that far.
rezerekted
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But why? You should care why so many people hate your beloved software company.
heatlesssun
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So don't say anything that's not Linux compatible. LOL!
You really seem upset about being called a shill. If it really doesn't bother you just drop it.
If it really does bother you just.... say unequivocally without making any sandwiches. MS is wrong... this is a bad decision and there is zero upside for them here >.<
I know it will be really hard to not follow that up with a BUT. Still I believe in you heatle you can do it.
heatlesssun
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Meh, not my problem. Windows does what I need and it does for millions of others. If there's something better that would do the job, we'd all be using it.
So I'm still waiting then.
Name one Killer average user APP that makes windows a must have for average users.
Careful what you wish for in public MS may ask for their employee badge back.
Seriously though... you are right people just want a device that does what they want when they want where they want. Which is why Android is now the worlds #1 OS.
BulletDust
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Which is solely due to marketing, popularity is no measurement of better. You're comparing an OS that's aggressively marketed and quantified by retail sales, to an OS that has little to no marketing and can't in any way even remotely quantified with any accuracy at all.
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Yarite. MS is more consumer hostile than they have ever been. No comparison. They've done some shady stuff over the years - threatening OEMs and IHVs if they dared support competing API standards, or made Linux equipped PCs available for order; and they've crapped on PC gamers for 17 years, but nothing compares to this current 10 era of underhanded, malware level tactics with upgradegate and telemetrygate. It's like they're going out of their way to alienate their most longtime customers.
That's just consumers. Microsoft has also never understood its product is "mission critical" to its business and professional customers, and misconstrued their repeat business as an invitation to abuse our trust and interfere with our work.
Back in the day when "GUI" was all the rage and desktop computing was the solution to slow mainframe application deployment, Microsoft was part of the solution. 20 years later, their myopic, incompetent greed has made them part of the problem.
We should not kick people lying on the floor, it's heartless. Heatlesssun and CO can not stand up and answer our questions without revealing the sad truth of MS incoming downfall
Joking aside, it's hard to predict how fast MS will fall, it is mostly big companies that keep it going, apps that are so long in the tooth that everyone forgot who wrote them and are crucial to workflow, but it will change and the biggest reason for it will be cloud computing. Along with changes in workplace, the need for compatible software at home will lessen so will MS penetration at work@home environment.
Faster networks that allow for game streaming from cloud servers, charging for performance by the hour, so even less users will feel the need to buy expensive hardware and specific OS to play games, casual gamers will welcome that most of all. Only the hardcore ones will insist on top performance and lowest latency and even they will falter when games quit coming out for Windows. Let's see, there are few services that offer gaming by the hour and, correct me if I'm wrong, but Origin? offers monthly plan for playing any game in the Vault? How hard would it be to sell that along the monthly pay plan to stream games - to any compatible OS, say 75h a month playing games for XX $ from a list of available titles or pay premium for latest and best, maybe less if you like only RPGs, possibilities are endless. You could play on a 400$ machine and the 1000$ you saved on components would buy you years of free gaming.
Yes, latency is a big issue here, that's why I say competitive gaming will remain local, for now. It is worth remembering that the only problem with that setup is quick transmission of video from server to user, with increased network of servers delays will get lower, finally to fall below typical 20-50ms of online gaming. Because the streaming server we are playing on will have much better connection to typical gaming server then we ever could have at home, or maybe they will be at the same location, in the same server cluster or the same room. We will probably have to pay more for faster network connections but we would like to have them anyway. This scenario is also a big problem for console gaming, and it may happen that they will also evolve to be a "dumb terminals" for online gaming that we only connect to TVs and game controllers.
Probably the only saving grace for MS is for now an advent of VR gaming, mostly due to additional hardware required for gamer positioning, but it is conceivable that such data could also be gathered and sent to servers to process, with adequate network connections. What is more important is that VR have a much more even starting ground on every system, it can work as well on Android, Linux or Windows, using the same OpenGL or Vulkan APIs, there is no huge advantage of MS on this ground, all platforms start more or less equal.
The lesson from all those possibilities is simple, MS is getting to be less and less indispensable and no longer the only one to turn to for good experience. For now it's the best for quality gaming, but it won't last, there are too many alternatives and the noose that MS is trying to use will scare users away (the programmers are already running away).
Joking aside, it's hard to predict how fast MS will fall, it is mostly big companies that keep it going, apps that are so long in the tooth that everyone forgot who wrote them
and are crucial to workflow, but it will change and the biggest reason for it will be cloud computing. Along with changes in workplace, the need for compatible software at home will lessen so will MS penetration at work@home environment.Faster networks that allow for game streaming from cloud servers, charging for performance by the hour, so even less users will feel the need to buy expensive hardware and specific OS to play games, casual gamers will welcome that most of all. Only the hardcore ones will insist on top performance and lowest latency and even they will falter when games quit coming out for Windows. Let's see, there are few services that offer gaming by the hour and, correct me if I'm wrong, but Origin? offers monthly plan for playing any game in the Vault? How hard would it be to sell that along the monthly pay plan to stream games - to any compatible OS, say 75h a month playing games for XX $ from a list of available titles or pay premium for latest and best, maybe less if you like only RPGs, possibilities are endless. You could play on a 400$ machine and the 1000$ you saved on components would buy you years of free gaming.
Yes, latency is a big issue here, that's why I say competitive gaming will remain local, for now. It is worth remembering that the only problem with that setup is quick transmission of video from server to user, with increased network of servers delays will get lower, finally to fall below typical 20-50ms of online gaming. Because the streaming server we are playing on will have much better connection to typical gaming server then we ever could have at home, or maybe they will be at the same location, in the same server cluster or the same room. We will probably have to pay more for faster network connections but we would like to have them anyway. This scenario is also a big problem for console gaming, and it may happen that they will also evolve to be a "dumb terminals" for online gaming that we only connect to TVs and game controllers.
Probably the only saving grace for MS is for now an advent of VR gaming, mostly due to additional hardware required for gamer positioning, but it is conceivable that such data could also be gathered and sent to servers to process, with adequate network connections. What is more important is that VR have a much more even starting ground on every system, it can work as well on Android, Linux or Windows, using the same OpenGL or Vulkan APIs, there is no huge advantage of MS on this ground, all platforms start more or less equal.
The lesson from all those possibilities is simple, MS is getting to be less and less indispensable and no longer the only one to turn to for good experience. For now it's the best for quality gaming, but it won't last, there are too many alternatives and the noose that MS is trying to use will scare users away (the programmers are already running away).
WorldExclusive
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Microsoft is really emphasizing the Micro these days.......as in micromanagement.
heatlesssun
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You really seem upset about being called a shill. If it really doesn't bother you just drop it.
It just makes no sense to be called a Microsoft when you're saying Microsoft is wrong. Not upset, just confused at how one can say "Microsoft is wrong." and then be called a Microsoft shill. It's just bizarre and not based in anything I said.
I know I used a vulgar saying earlier... I guess you didn't understand the point I was making.
Lots of CEOs even will admit to making a bad decision.... then proceed to list 20 positive things about their company.
So yes no one is denying you said this is a bad decision. We are simply noticing that you spent 20 follow up posts arguing how it doesn't matter, it makes sense ect...
Companies hire spin doctor types to do exactly what you are doing right now. Yes what we did was bad... however we would like to point you to all this wonderful humanitarian work we are doing.
heatlesssun
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I never said anything positive about this particular move by Microsoft. In fact I agreed with you when you said the stupidity of this is in how few people this really effects yet it draws much negative PR. For what? To prevent a small group of people who'd install an old OS on brand new CPUs.
Simmonz
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So for those with new CPUs you have 1 Windows OS forcing updates on you and 2 Windows updates blocking updates from you. Microsoft never heard of a middle ground ? Also the fact Windows 8.1 is being blocked while being in mainstream support is abysmal.
Nobified[H]
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Is there a way for all of us software developers to get together and make a perfect OS for the whole world? Free.....Yeah Linux is a good desktop but not equal to windows.
Simmonz
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That's the great thing about Linux: you can make it better. What's stopping you improving Linux ?
heatlesssun
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Yarite. Because no one thought Microsoft was hostile to consumers when it was being sued under anti-trust laws almost 20 years ago. Really, sometimes people here say some crazy shit to make no point at all.
heatlesssun
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Funny thing about that though, everyone attacking me in this thread denounced Windows 8.1.
Simmonz
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I think it is a case of Microsoft being the same old evil but suddenly pissing people off who tolerated them before.
People hate Windows 8.1 until it helps support their points. Tells you how much they hate 10.
heatlesssun
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Have you looked at the library of VR games on Steam? There are 3 Linux compatible VR games on Steam. And 1242 Windows compatible VR games. What do you honestly think a person that spends the money on PCVR is going to run under these circumstances? But hey Microsoft shill, because common sense.
BulletDust
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I think that would come back to that thing called personal opinion.
People seem to cope just fine with macOS, my Linux desktop isn't terribly dissimilar with the exception I can read/write to NTFS partitions without using the terminal (yes, under macOS the terminal is still necessary in many cases and the commands are almost identical to the commands used under Linux) and I have a far better file manager.
There's nothing perfect about the Windows desktop.
heatlesssun
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Whatever the case, the idea that Microsoft hatred is a new thing is ridiculous. It's been a big issue for years.
Except there is one big difference. Enterprises are going to adopt Windows 10 on a large scale. That wasn't the case for Windows 8.x.
BulletDust
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And time doesn't stand still. There are people that don't want to use Windows [mindblown!], prefer Linux [mindblown again!] and are excited by the prospect of Linux adopting VR. Furthermore it's obvious Nvidia and Chronos are on the VR bandwagon regarding Linux so things will continue to advance as time goes on.
Nobified[H]
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