New Processors Are Now Blocked from Receiving Updates on Old Windows

[heatlesssun]

Then why try to twist things all the time to make it seem like the shitty thing they have done isn't so bad. Sometimes its best to just say yep sure that is shitty.

Because I don't. And you said yourself on this issue that it wasn't worth the hit because who is actually going to do this.

I like Windows 10. It's running with a wide variety of hardware and software. And moment I mention "VR" I'm a shill.

 

[Shotglass01]

True, but not randomly. I simply pointed out that software updates, at least in an enterprise environment, cannot be refused as a matter of policy because of the security implications that may be associated with them. I work in an environment that schedules Linux upgrades every month, just like Windows. It's non-negotiable.

In some ways, I do think that Microsoft is kind of taking a page out of its experience at the enterprise level and applying it to consumers. Monthly patches, forced reboots up to three days delay, no choice at by the end user. It's just amazing how the things that people complain about with Windows 10 are so close to how it gets managed in true enterprises.

I have to truth this. We're running a metric ton more than 200k+ desktops now company wide. And we get updates. But, for our environment, there are a few excluded, maybe 5%, of just our office, that do get a little more control over the updates. It's because the systems in question are literally not allowed to be rebooted at the time they might be required to. However, inevitably, they will reboot due to updates. And, it's non-negotiable, and it's going to happen. And, we've got policy, that at least, one a month, a non-negotiable maintenance window is going to happen. And, I fully agree with you. MS should not have made this move in blocking updates on Kaby and Ryzen.

 

[ChadD]

At least two of my harshest personal critics on Windows and Windows 10 specifically will NEVER agree with you on this one. VR is out there and it's a compelling tech. If I had to run Linux to get advantage from it I'd be running an expensive piece of hardware with a Linux host to use it. But of course it's just easier to call me a shill than to talk about VR and your experience with it.

Well I guess we are well off topic now. lol Keep layering things on the sandwich your building though. It gets tastier every page.

 

[heatlesssun]

I have to truth this. We're running a metric ton more than 200k+ desktops now company wide. And we get updates. But, for our environment, there are a few excluded, maybe 5%, of just our office, that do get a little more control over the updates. It's because the systems in question are literally not allowed to be rebooted at the time they might be required to. However, inevitably, they will reboot due to updates. And, it's non-negotiable, and it's going to happen. And, we've got policy, that at least, one a month, a non-negotiable maintenance window is going to happen. And, I fully agree with you. MS should not have made this move in blocking updates on Kaby and Ryzen.

I'm simply conveying what our process is. I didn't design it and had nothing to do with it. We patch everything on a schedule at least once a month, if the issue is deemed super critical we'll do it out of band. It's pretty much the same policy everywhere for large enterprise environments that is agonistic of the OS.

 

[ChadD]

And moment I mention "VR" I'm a shill.

When you bring it up in a thread about windows updates blacklisting hardware. It is hard to understand how "Windows is the best VR platform in the world" has anything to do with the subject.

 

[heatlesssun]

Well I guess we are well off topic now. lol Keep layering things on the sandwich your building though. It gets tastier every page.

You say all of this and yet I agree that Microsoft shouldn't have blocked Windows Update for 7 & 8.1. So you and others are the ones making the shit sandwich. I'm simply trying to convey information and advocate on behalf of those that call me a shill. It's a tough job. But you're never going to get what you want from a developer of a project talking to them like you guys to me. You guys treat food waiters better.

 

[ChadD]

You guys treat food waiters better.

Not at all... I also insist they not serve me any shit sandwich.

 

[heatlesssun]

When you bring it up in a thread about windows updates blacklisting hardware. It is hard to understand how "Windows is the best VR platform in the world" has anything to do with the subject.

Is anyone who bought a piece of hardware with Windows 7 or 8.1 being blacklisted from getting updates through Windows Update? If you can prove this, on this forum publicly, I'll give you a GTX 1080 FE Gigabyte for free. I've got two gathering dust and I hate selling and honestly would just like to get rid of one while it's still useful rather than have 20 GPUs stacking up in storage that got old.

 

[heatlesssun]

Not at all... I also insist they not serve me any shit sandwich.

And my shit sandwich is a free GTX 1080.

 

[BulletDust]

I'm loyal to Microsoft because I've said countless times Microsoft was wrong on this and many other things? People attacking those that say flat out that Microsoft made a bad choice and yet are still getting attacked are the true shills.

But you don't really say it, You sort of beat around, trying to imply no bias but the whole time loving every second of the Microsoft dwindling stronghold. Realistically, that's all you're attempting to do, you're attempting to fend off the well known notion on the [H] Forums (and beyond) that you're in every regard a Microsoft shill.

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to simply click one button and have ALL of those OS updates, Software patches, Driver updates all done for you auto magik like.

Windows is such a mess, I can't imagine ever going back to tending a windows install with a ton of software installed.

I look forward to updates on my Linux PC, always something new!

 

[BulletDust]

And my shit sandwich is a free GTX 1080.

I don't want the 1080, couldn't give a stuff about it. I've already said send me that Vive and lets get some real experience under Linux. Because your Linux VR experience is less than zero considering you proudly flaunt the fact that you avoid desktop Linux like some medal of honour, and while you may have experience playing with your little VR setup under Windows, it's obvious you have no Linux desktop experience and no Linux VR experience - Yet you comment on VR under Linux like our resident expert on the matter!

As others have stated, it's all deflection. The topic is Microsoft forcing adopters of newer hardware onto Windows 10 and somehow we've discussed how your employer deploys updates and now we're onto VR of all things! Look everyone, over there, what's that! I think I hear Mum (Mom) calling!

 

[zero2dash]

I'm a shill.

The fact of the matter and the topic is, the security only updates now check CPU architecture, and some CPUs which should be immune are being flagged and systems are now essentially dead for people. On top of that, the update cannot be removed once installed. That's an even bigger dick move.
There is no defense for that. We get it, you like Win10, greatest thing since sliced bread, yadda yadda. Has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

I'm gonna answer this one and then I'm gonna back away from you once again. (And hell yes I'm absolutely selectively quoting that.)
You are a shill. 43K posts and I'd bet that 3/4 of those are in defense of Win10 in some form or another. (And no, I don't give enough of a shit to dig up your search history and actually look because I've seen enough of it by casually browsing threads.)
Multiple times in this thread, you've thrown up red herrings and strawmen at attempts to divert attention from the topic at hand.
You are unequivocally IMHO a shill and you always will be. That's who you are. Your post history dictates that and it would take another 43K posts for me to consider you as not being a shill.

I used to somewhat see your points, I used to somewhat see where you were coming from. I don't anymore. It's just complete shill post one right after the other.
You're continuing to do it, now. "No, I don't think they should have done this, but here's some random topic that has nothing to do with any of this so I can divert attention further".
You've brought more OT ideas and topics into this thread than I think I've ever seen you do, in any other thread. Stop man, just stop.
I have no idea how other posters here can just continue on with arguing with you, it's like arguing a brick wall. I'm not going to do it. I haven't, and I'm not about to start. This is the last reply you'll ever see from me on anything you ever say.

Coincidentally, ManofGod is there nearly every time you are. Actually, I'm sorry/not sorry at calling that a "coincidence" because it's not. (Similar here - last time I'm bringing up their name.)

MS has gone from a once great company to a shit company. IMHO.
I've been to enough rodeos and been around the block more than a few times, probably more times than you (and most others). I've dealt with this stuff a long time.
What they're pulling now is horseshit. People above me in age/seniority/skill, who have been to more rodeos than even me, they're even further aggravated by MS 2017.

Again I say, it's tiring. It's easier to step by and add people to ignore lists and just bypass anything they have to say.
That's IMHO, that's what I think. You think what you want, that's your prerogative.

MS can do no wrong in your view. Oh, you can say NOW that "this is wrong", but again, post history dictates otherwise. You'd be better off just walking away, but you can't. You continue replying. You continue posting more red herrings and more strawmen. Why? Just stop, man.
You make yourself look bad IMHO by continuing to argue points about Win10 each and every time. Defend, defend defend. Even on a rare occasion that you're not defending, you're still slyly defending because you're bringing up OT shit and saying "well Linux does this" or "Linux is this way".
At this point for all the things I've seen you say about Linux, I can't even say I've believed any but a handful of them because the majority of it was all half-truths or just outright lies.

I think most people say what's on their mind. They call out companies regardless of standing or what they use when they pull BS. Not you. Not ManofGod. You guys continue to be apologists for anything and everything MS does, other than now, where it's almost like you realize people probably think of you one way, so you're trying to earn goodwill or come out smelling like a rose to those who don't think that. It's ok. Me, I don't care what people think about what I say. This is a message board, public, for giving opinions. Everyone has an opinion. Anyone can say anything (within reason). I find it hilarious (and somewhat troublesome) that people such as yourself constantly have to throw their 2 cents in on any topic just in defense of something, almost like a reverse troll.

I'm not sticking up for Linux here because it's not a part of the topic. I happen to like Linux, especially Ubuntu, but it's not perfect. It damn sure is a sight better than Win10, and it leaves my system alone where I'm still in control. That's all I care about at this point, which is one more reason why I'll never reinstall Win10 on any system that I don't have to. Windows 7 is the best OS MS has come out with since 2k/XP and that's the way it'll end for me.

 

[SmokeRngs]

I look forward to updates on my Linux PC, always something new!

You know, it's not something I've consciously noticed before but for the last nine or ten years that I've been using Linux (always as a fileserver and sometimes as the main OS on my primary machine) I've had the same feeling. Oddly enough, in that time I've had the exact opposite feeling with MS. Even though I've never had a showstopping Windows update which hosed my machine (mostly because I wait at least a couple of weeks before installing updates to see if anything happens first), I still cringe anytime I see the notification that there are new updates. Part of that is the absolutely horrible update process that I've grown to hate with a passion over the years but not all of it.

 

[Shotglass01]

I'm simply conveying what our process is. I didn't design it and had nothing to do with it. We patch everything on a schedule at least once a month, if the issue is deemed super critical we'll do it out of band. It's pretty much the same policy everywhere for large enterprise environments that is agonistic of the OS.

Yep, pretty much the same. Super critical though? Well, I haven't had the pleasure of finding that out yet. Either it happened silently, or we could do a defer. They offer that option sometimes. And, each time I see the box, I advise everyone that I can to close everything, hands-off, and run the patch. Makes my life easier if they run hands-off. Truth be told, we're getting pretty good at it on both 7 and 10. It's not bad for our patching. I will say, on my 10 laptop, I do see some minor issues popping up that did not happen in 7. However, I can't confirm it's completely 10's fault. It could be due to some policies we have applied and patches. I can't be sure. I will say this, I am a sand pebble in basically an ocean front. There's a lot, a lot, of sand here.

 

[Meeho]

Nope. I've said more about Microsoft being wrong about this in specific terms and providing thought as to why beyond simplistic notions.

"Yes, MS is wrong...but, really, look at the next ten posts on how they actually aren't, or they are just like Linux, it is because of HIPPA, PETA, NSA, NBA, it's like that in the Enterprise, you know, where it matters, but I'm not shilling, look how MS is wrong but actually right in ten other ways, Linux, Linux, Linux, Enterprise, compliance, better, 1080 giveaway, VR, Microsoft, I can understand why they did it, Linux, Linux, Linux, corporate, Enterprise, standards, support, Microsoft, Windows 10, 10, my devices, Windows, multiple orgasms..."

 

[BulletDust]

Coincidentally, ManofGod is there nearly every time you are. Actually, I'm sorry/not sorry at calling that a "coincidence" because it's not. (Similar here - last time I'm bringing up their name.)

First of all, well said.

Second of all, Heatlesssun and ManOfGod continuously backing each other up is no coincidence.

 

[BulletDust]

You know, it's not something I've consciously noticed before but for the last nine or ten years that I've been using Linux (always as a fileserver and sometimes as the main OS on my primary machine) I've had the same feeling. Oddly enough, in that time I've had the exact opposite feeling with MS. Even though I've never had a showstopping Windows update which hosed my machine (mostly because I wait at least a couple of weeks before installing updates to see if anything happens first), I still cringe anytime I see the notification that there are new updates. Part of that is the absolutely horrible update process that I've grown to hate with a passion over the years but not all of it.

Totally, my experience exactly!

Sometimes I click that update icon under Linux and I'm all disappointed when there's no offering from the Linux Gods.

 

[Shotglass01]

First of all, well said.

Second of all, Heatlesssun and ManOfGod continuously backing each other up is no coincidence.

I've seen that too. But I don't believe they're the same or buddies. Now, just from an Enterprise perspective, I do agree with SOME of what Heatless has to say. Consumer space, not so much, but my eyes were very widened when I got to work where I am now. And, he's not completely incompetent when Enterprise comes to mind. I really don't agree with him on much. But Enterprise, we do share some of the same pain now.

 

[ChadD]

Totally, my experience exactly!

Sometimes I click that update icon under Linux and I'm all disappointed when there's no offering from the Linux Gods.

I haven't had a manjaro update in 3 days. I took a min and double checked my mirror list and double checked my keys just in case. Guess its just a slow week ending in a long weekend. lol

 

[BulletDust]

I haven't had a manjaro update in 3 days. I took a min and double checked my mirror list and double checked my keys just in case. Guess its just a slow week ending in a long weekend. lol

So disheartening.

I offer you an e-hug.

 

[naib]

And there is me sitting with my i7 Gentoo setup, updating DAILY (Yes daily.. https://packages.gentoo.org) with either security updates that are daily ( https://security.gentoo.org/glsa )or product updates, that are daily...

All the while my new motherboard, ram and ryzen CPU are being shipped so i can rebuild on Friday all to continue receiving daily updates which i apply daily

 

[VRT]

That's like reading a menu listed with only three dishes to eat in an expensive 5 star restaurant which used to have over 30 to pick from just months ago.

I don't see how anyone could confuse anything MS with being a 5 star restaurant LOL.

I only read part of this thread, but my thoughts are that this is going to push people more away from MS and more towards Linux the others just won't upgrade. The more people that don't upgrade and even though they stay with MS they will hurt the entire PC industry as a whole, because the new computers won't be built.

Earlier today I was using a PC that had to run Windows 7 because some of the software for the CNC machine which it runs will not run on 8.1 or 10. I still see people using Windows XP and DOS(not very many) for corporate applications that still run just fine and don't need/want the downtime. I used to do a lot of work with United Space Alliance and NASA down at Johnson and the legacy applications that they had from decades ago was astounding. If you have something that works and works well, why screw with it?

This is like telling me that I can't use the new roads in my classic car.

 

[BulletDust]

I don't see how anyone could confuse anything MS with being a 5 star restaurant LOL.

I only read part of this thread, but my thoughts are that this is going to push people more away from MS and more towards Linux the others just won't upgrade. The more people that don't upgrade and even though they stay with MS they will hurt the entire PC industry as a whole, because the new computers won't be built.

Earlier today I was using a PC that had to run Windows 7 because some of the software for the CNC machine which it runs will not run on 8.1 or 10. I still see people using Windows XP and DOS(not very many) for corporate applications that still run just fine and don't need/want the downtime. I used to do a lot of work with United Space Alliance and NASA down at Johnson and the legacy applications that they had from decades ago was astounding. If you have something that works and works well, why screw with it?

This is like telling me that I can't use the new roads in my classic car.

Windows is far from 5 star, by definition it's the McDonalds of operating systems - Popular due to clever marketing, filling that fat point on the bell curve regarding the masses but by no means the best.

 

[MV75]

Ok, we all know the shill false flag attempt has gone south. Can we get to the actual thing?

Seems like it's the April updates that are doing this. So what to do? Just don't update? I'm on an os that is supposed to be serviced for another year at least. This shit is really pissing me off. Where is the go to to be able to run my dx11 steam library under Linux? BTW, this will hit graphics cards next. Why is dx12 been given open sourcing? To make dx12 only games. Time to just give up and hate using my computer? That's what win10 is to me.

 

[ChoGGi]

MS has gone from a once great company to a shit company. IMHO.

Eh, Microsoft has always been at least a bit scummy/very scummy.
I was surprised how decent they became under monkey boy, but with the new blood it's seemingly right back to the usual shenanigans (well not as bad as some of the shit they pulled in the nineties, but give them time).
That said I am enjoying the open sourcing/WSL efforts, but I guess that's just how badly they want people upgrading to 10.

 

[MV75]

Eh, Microsoft has always been at least a bit scummy/very scummy.
I was surprised how decent they became under monkey boy, but with the new blood it's seemingly right back to the usual shenanigans (well not as bad as some of the shit they pulled in the nineties, but give them time).
That said I am enjoying the open sourcing/WSL efforts, but I guess that's just how badly they want people upgrading to 10.

Meh, they're all skunks. Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, apple. They're all bottom feeders with their current products.

 

[ChadD]

Ok, we all know the shill false flag attempt has gone south. Can we get to the actual thing?

Seems like it's the April updates that are doing this. So what to do? Just don't update? I'm on an os that is supposed to be serviced for another year at least. This shit is really pissing me off. Where is the go to to be able to run my dx11 steam library under Linux? BTW, this will hit graphics cards next. Why is dx12 been given open sourcing? To make dx12 only games. Time to just give up and hate using my computer? That's what win10 is to me.

Windows only games in Linux are still spotty if we are being honest. Wine v2.6 just released with a few performance features added that have been in the experimental staging version for awhile. It helps but you are still going to loose performance vs windows native, and some games are still just not going to run no matter what you do.

The Linux library is growing though... lots of very solid ports. A good number of Linux steam games have also started getting vulkan patches. I had a Talos principle patch today that for sure got me a few more FPS under Vulkan.

Gaming is coming along under Linux... we won't replace windows tomorrow. It will happen though.

As for MS and their recent spat of Open sourcing BS stuff like DX compilers. F them. Open sourcing tools but not the api... who cares really. I guess they are hoping it will help push the engine building companies to build custom tools that build for DX 12. With unreal, unity, source, ID tech6, Cryteams serious engine all building in Vulkan support.... open sourcing their compiler seems like a real hail marry. It could even be more related to their Xbox issues... developers LOVE sonys GNMX tools. As a result a lot of games are coded in GNMX first and ported to DX. Perhaps MS is hoping developers will come up with their own = DX tools, or better conversion tools then the ones Sony provides them. lol

 

[mat9v]

Can I add one more thing?

Give me an option on install to install just the desktop interface, no touch interface at all, no Settings Panel.

But.... then you would have Windows 7 all over because that is all that have changed on the user end. Of course DX12 and drivers were added under the hood, some changes in kernel and most visible to users svchost task grouping.
The all encompassing reason that Win10 is "better" then Win 7 is "Telemetry everywhere™"

 

[mat9v]

This no different from Windows. There are various branches with Windows also but within that branch you don't get to pick and choose updates and maintain compatibility in that branch. The difference with Windows is that consumers get pushed to the current branch. Which if they weren't, would lead to compatibility issues.

This is one area where I will defend Microsoft because it's no different, even from Linux.

What do you mean compatibility? As in, after update my program will no longer work where before it did? Did it keep compatibility or break it? Updates will never "keep compatibility" they can only "break compatibility".
Unless you mean one computer being compatible with some other because an update changed how some software piece worked between versions.
Or did you mean that without installing one update you would not be able to install some other?

Could you expand on those mysterious compatibility issues between machines having updates and not having them in the same branch? Preferably with at least few examples?

 

[tetris42]

Gaming is coming along under Linux... we won't replace windows tomorrow. It will happen though.

Care to walk me through how that might happen? Honestly, I'm not seeing how the situation is going to change dramatically 10, 20 years from now. It's like Linux are thorium reactors and Windows are uranium. There can be an endless number of reasons why one is better over the other and should theoretically take over, yet here we are without thorium reactors.

If anything, I'm even more pessimistic about Windows losing its stranglehold than ever. Look at Windows 10. If ever there was an OS that should get people to quit Windows, that's it. Hell, even PC Gamer had an article recently complaining about the problems it causes. From my perspective, its measures go far beyond what a personal OS should ever do control-wise. Yet, not only is it being tolerated, it now has the majority marketshare for gamers. For this generation at least, the market has spoken. There are holdouts like me on Windows 7, but we'll eventually cave to 10 once we're left behind by too many games (which I don't see happening before 2020, but still). The foreseeable future for PC gaming is still Windows, now matter how many missteps Microsoft seems to take.

So explain to me how this situation is going to change. What is going to make gamers drop Windows and move to Linux by the truckload? It sure as hell doesn't seem to be drifting that way for the near future. I think if gamers now tolerate Windows 10, they'll tolerate anything. The most I'm hearing is devs aren't thrilled with DX12 and Microsoft APIs, but that's hardly enough to stop making devs release Windows-first. I suspect 10 years from now, the story will be largely the same, with either consoles or Windows being the lead skew, PC gaming still being largely synonymous with Windows, easier porting to Linux because of more portable code, but not substantial change for Linux gaming in marketshare. That's it. So what am I missing?

 

[BulletDust]

Stop with the VR Heatle... you live in a world where only 17% of all PCs sold even have card based GPUs. The number of those that are really capable of decent VR isn't great. Should the time come that the masses care about VR Linux support will be just fine.
https://www.engadget.com/2017/02/22/valve-launches-steamvr-support-for-linux/
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/category/Virtual-Reality

According to the Steam hardware survey, the most popular discrete DX12 GPU is the GTX970 @ 5.89%. However, the most popular GPU is in the DX11 class of GPU's and is actually Intel HD Graphics 4000 @ 20.21%. The most popular VR headset is the HTC Vive @ 0.24%.

Hardly supportive of the technology of the future as claimed by some on these forums. More like the Laser Disc of the 2017's.

DX11:

DX12:

VR:

I disagree with Microsoft on many issues and have pointed it out many times in this forum over the years. However I don't disagree with them on EVERYTHING. And that's the difference between someone being honest and someone being a shill.

The problem that you refuse to acknowledge is that at this point in time there is nothing positive to say about Microsoft. The path they are headed down is one of absolute disaster.

 

[BulletDust]

Care to walk me through how that might happen? Honestly, I'm not seeing how the situation is going to change dramatically 10, 20 years from now. It's like Linux are thorium reactors and Windows are uranium. There can be an endless number of reasons why one is better over the other and should theoretically take over, yet here we are without thorium reactors.

If anything, I'm even more pessimistic about Windows losing its stranglehold than ever. Look at Windows 10. If ever there was an OS that should get people to quit Windows, that's it. Hell, even PC Gamer had an article recently complaining about the problems it causes. From my perspective, its measures go far beyond what a personal OS should ever do control-wise. Yet, not only is it being tolerated, it now has the majority marketshare for gamers. For this generation at least, the market has spoken. There are holdouts like me on Windows 7, but we'll eventually cave to 10 once we're left behind by too many games (which I don't see happening before 2020, but still). The foreseeable future for PC gaming is still Windows, now matter how many missteps Microsoft seems to take.

So explain to me how this situation is going to change. What is going to make gamers drop Windows and move to Linux by the truckload? It sure as hell doesn't seem to be drifting that way for the near future. I think if gamers now tolerate Windows 10, they'll tolerate anything. The most I'm hearing is devs aren't thrilled with DX12 and Microsoft APIs, but that's hardly enough to stop making devs release Windows-first. I suspect 10 years from now, the story will be largely the same, with either consoles or Windows being the lead skew, PC gaming still being largely synonymous with Windows, easier porting to Linux because of more portable code, but not substantial change for Linux gaming in marketshare. That's it. So what am I missing?

Do you believe Windows was always the dominant computing platform? Because I can assure you there was a time when it was pure shit compared to the competition, especially in comparison to gaming.

Time moves on, Microsoft are in a weakened state ATM with DX12 and it's comparatively low uptake in comparison to previous generations of DirectX and it's obvious Chronos aren't going to make the same mistakes as the OGL consortium's of the past and they're fighting hard with Vulkan, they're not sitting on their hands squabbling like the consortium's of the past regarding OGL.

If MS loose that DX stronghold anything's possible. If Microsoft keep heading on their current path I give Windows another 10 years.

Remember, the uptake of Windows 10 is largely skewed by the fact MS are literally forcing it onto the consumer, hence the reason for this thread.

 

[mat9v]

Care to walk me through how that might happen? Honestly, I'm not seeing how the situation is going to change dramatically 10, 20 years from now. It's like Linux are thorium reactors and Windows are uranium. There can be an endless number of reasons why one is better over the other and should theoretically take over, yet here we are without thorium reactors.

Simply by the way of numbers. At the moment Windows is on less then 50% of devices with active internet connection and it's share is slowly eroding. Linux and Android share a common platform, lately there came the possibility of natively running Android software on Linux without any emulator or virtual machine support. Next step is natively running Android games on Linux - it is a large collection of simple (and not so simple) games. I don't think developers will suddenly start porting all their Windows titles to Linux but I do think Windows is on a decline and while it will take many many years it will leave home and be replaced by Android/Linux/Chrome/Whatever while remaining at work for a time. MS is seeing the trend and it is why they are desperately trying to change the system model to "rental" and looking to materialize current user base browsing histories and so on as additional revenue source. Before it all falls down around them.
I just love doing predictions like that

 

[BulletDust]

But.... then you would have Windows 7 all over because that is all that have changed on the user end. Of course DX12 and drivers were added under the hood, some changes in kernel and most visible to users svchost task grouping.
The all encompassing reason that Win10 is "better" then Win 7 is "Telemetry everywhere™"

Here's a positive regarding Microsoft and Windows 10.....

....You know the single, best thing about Windows 10?

The fact I can reinstall Windows on any previously activated machine without searching for the damn key. It makes life sooooo much easier.

 

[mat9v]

Here's a positive regarding Microsoft and Windows 10.....

....You know the single, best thing about Windows 10?

The fact I can reinstall Windows on any previously activated machine without searching for the damn key. It makes life sooooo much easier.

I bet you one up. Install any version of Windows 7, use DAZ loader, install Windows 10 on top and you get an activated system.
Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not in any way advocating piracy I'm just pointing, how much MS wants to press everyone in using Windows 10 so much that they will even discard legality of Windows copies.

 

[MV75]

Here's a positive regarding Microsoft and Windows 10.....

....You know the single, best thing about Windows 10?

The fact I can reinstall Windows on any previously activated machine without searching for the damn key. It makes life sooooo much easier.

Can you then reinstall a new copy, fresh key, of windows 7 without it referencing your windows 10 key locked to that hwid and cock blocking you?

 

[MV75]

I bet you one up. Install any version of Windows 7, use DAZ loader, install Windows 10 on top and you get an activated system.
Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not in any way advocating piracy I'm just pointing, how much MS wants to press everyone in using Windows 10 so much that they will even discard legality of Windows copies.

Works 100% Didn't use that loader though, but yea, does work. Used it on a sacrificial laptop I have here to try win10. Got it for free free. Yep, double free. Still hate the crap though, even for free free.

 

[BulletDust]

I bet you one up. Install any version of Windows 7, use DAZ loader, install Windows 10 on top and you get an activated system.
Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not in any way advocating piracy I'm just pointing, how much MS wants to press everyone in using Windows 10 so much that they will even discard legality of Windows copies.

That's too hard. As a tech Windows will be a part of my life for as long as it exists, and I wouldn't be as bold as to assume that will be forever or anything like the versions of Windows prior to Windows 8. But I can achieve everything I want under Linux. Most of the software I run operates cross platform, the Nvidia drivers I'm running are awesome, I have more games than ever to choose from, but most important of all - Linux respects me as a user.

I'm done with Microsoft on my own machines.

 

[mat9v]

That's too hard. As a tech Windows will be a part of my life for as long as it exists, and I wouldn't be as bold as to assume that will be forever or anything like the versions of Windows prior to Windows 8. But I can achieve everything I want under Linux. Most of the software I run operates cross platform, the Nvidia drivers I'm running are awesome, I have more games than ever to choose from, but most important of all - Linux respects me as a user.

I'm done with Microsoft on my own machines.

I was responding outside Windows/Linux debate that it seems this thread a bit degenerated into. Again to point out how desperate MS is now.
I will continue using Windows because it is my work, troubleshooting Windows machines for end users and small business that has no money for dedicated IT guy. Have to be current with all mishaps awaiting Windows users. But I do have a Linux in VM that I'm playing with, trying to do on it all the everyday tasks that I do on Windows (beside compiling roms and kernels for Android phones that I own).

 

[tetris42]

Do you believe Windows was always the dominant computing platform? Because I can assure you there was a time when it was pure shit compared to the competition, especially in comparison to gaming.

Time moves on, Microsoft are in a weakened state ATM with DX12 and it's comparatively low uptake in comparison to previous generations of DirectX and it's obvious Chronos aren't going to make the same mistakes as the OGL consortium's of the past and they're fighting hard with Vulkan, they're not sitting on their hands squabbling like the consortium's of the past regarding OGL.

If MS loose that DX stronghold anything's possible. If Microsoft keep heading on their current path I give Windows another 10 years.

Remember, the uptake of Windows 10 is largely skewed by the fact MS are literally forcing it onto the consumer, hence the reason for this thread.

I think ever since DOS, yes, Windows has always been the dominant platform for PC gaming. You know something I'm forgetting?

As for Vulkan, I see that mostly as opening up the options for Linux ports. Windows is still going to get the lead skew on the PC because that's where the money is. Like you said, Windows is forced to the consumer. So for every victory Linux is making and every misstep Microsoft is taking, that gets undermined every time a new PC is sold with Windows pre-installed.

Simply by the way of numbers. At the moment Windows is on less then 50% of devices with active internet connection and it's share is slowly eroding. Linux and Android share a common platform, lately there came the possibility of natively running Android software on Linux without any emulator or virtual machine support. Next step is natively running Android games on Linux - it is a large collection of simple (and not so simple) games. I don't think developers will suddenly start porting all their Windows titles to Linux but I do think Windows is on a decline and while it will take many many years it will leave home and be replaced by Android/Linux/Chrome/Whatever while remaining at work for a time. MS is seeing the trend and it is why they are desperately trying to change the system model to "rental" and looking to materialize current user base browsing histories and so on as additional revenue source. Before it all falls down around them.
I just love doing predictions like that

You're comparing different markets. Here, how is Windows doing on the DESKTOP:

http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide/

84%, with Mac in second at 11%. Now how is it doing for PC GAMING?

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

96%. That sounds like utter dominance to me. You're comparing all of computing uses against PC gaming. Not the same markets at all. If I need to monitor power fluctuations across circuits for a hydroelectric plant, I don't necessarily need Windows. If I want to run Resident Evil 7, I need Windows.

The thing is, markets can split, and that still doesn't shake what Windows retains. So yes, mobile is huge right now, but the games that sell big on mobile often aren't the same kinds of games that sell big on the PC. There will be some overlap, then there will be other games that no headway is made at all, because the formfactor + perpetually being behind dedicated gaming hardware holds many games back. Are people really playing lots of things like MMORPGS on their smartphones? It sounds like you're arguing that mobile games will become so dominant that ALL OTHER games will cease being developed, which I don't see happening. Here's what Linux is up against from my perspective:

Early 90s - DOS dominates PC gaming
Late 90s - Windows dominates PC gaming
Early 00s - Windows dominates PC gaming
Late 00s - Windows dominates PC gaming
Early 10s - Windows dominates PC gaming
Present day - Windows dominates PC gaming

Consoles have risen and fallen this entire time, yet PC gaming kept on trucking, and on Windows. PC gaming didn't cease to exist during times when consoles were more popular, because again, they were different markets, even if there was a lot of overlap. With mobile I think there's a lot LESS overlap than there is between consoles and the PC. Linux has gained massively more game titles than it used to, yet barely made a dent in marketshare and seem to be backsliding, despite more titles being added.

Now if you're arguing Windows is going to DIE in about 10 years, then yes, that would kill the dominance. All I can say to that though is that I've heard predictions about that happening for a lot longer than 10 years. As stupid as MS is, they're not exactly going to let themselves go down quietly if they're being threatened.

Don't get me wrong, I would LIKE to see that happen, but some of these posts seem to completely underestimate just how much influence MS wields in computing and how many resources it has its disposal, ESPECIALLY pc gaming. When we start seeing double digits for consumer PCs being pre-installed with Linux or gamers on Linux, then I can see some potential for change. Until then, this really doesn't feel that drastically different than what's come before.