New Processors Are Now Blocked from Receiving Updates on Old Windows

heatlesssun said:
True, but not randomly. I simply pointed out that software updates, at least in an enterprise environment, cannot be refused as a matter of policy because of the security implications that may be associated with them. I work in an environment that schedules Linux upgrades every month, just like Windows. It's non-negotiable.

In some ways, I do think that Microsoft is kind of taking a page out of its experience at the enterprise level and applying it to consumers. Monthly patches, forced reboots up to three days delay, no choice at by the end user. It's just amazing how the things that people complain about with Windows 10 are so close to how it gets managed in true enterprises.
Click to expand...

Companies hire these providers though based on the fact they will never get pushed crap. There is a reason the Enterprise class Linux providers run years old kernels. (sort of the truth is they are custom kernels... as they back port support for new hardware and features that have undergone some extreme vetting)

There is no need to pick and choose which updates to install if your running RHEL or SUSE.... cause they aren't going to be upgrading home user type software like the Steam client or something. :)
 
ChadD said:
Indeed and not really the type of "linux" server I was referring to. I think you make a semi good point though. Stuff like that sure they can force whatever they want... but they tend to not be to heavy handed. Telling a company that just spent 100s of thousands on powerpc racks one year that they have to switch them all out a year later if they want support is a no go. I doubt highly that is the way their switch went down. For the more common smaller Linux servers... like the type that some hospitals use that do things like host Virtualized desktops to thin clients. Companies like Red Hat don't tie security updates to basic hardware updates. If a hospital running a redhat virt setup went and bought new hardware running a new Intel chip, they would hardly have Red Hat cut off security updates. On the contrary Red Hat would bend over backwards ensuring that it worked. As they have recently as I stated 4 pages back Red hat RHEL V 7.1 and 7.2 did backport all the newer Intel CPU features into the 3.1 Kernel RHEL runs on.
Click to expand...

Not arguing with anything you're saying here, just gave an example of where Linux is used and doesn't mean anything near free.
 
ChadD said:
Companies hire these providers though based on the fact they will never get pushed crap. There is a reason the Enterprise class Linux providers run years old kernels. (sort of the truth is they are custom kernels... as they back port support for new hardware and features that have undergone some extreme vetting)

There is no need to pick and choose which updates to install if your running RHEL or SUSE.... cause they aren't going to be upgrading home user type software like the Steam client or something. :)
Click to expand...

Again, every month, Linux server get patched. Period. No exceptions. Yes, we control the updates but the update process is inevitable.
 
heatlesssun said:
Not arguing with anything you're saying here, just gave an example of where Linux is used and doesn't mean anything near free.
Click to expand...

Didn't realize we where arguing about anything to do with Linux being free or not. BTW The RHEL software is free... its called the CentOS. Purchasing RHEL is purchasing support. Ya commercial support costs money. No Linux person is ever going to have a problem with that. Companies like Red Hat and Suse contribute a lot of code back to the projects they use in their products. They also go out of their way supporting their free and experimental versions like Fedora and Opensuse.
 
heatlesssun said:
Again, every month, Linux server get patched. Period. No exceptions. Yes, we control the updates but the update process is inevitable.
Click to expand...

I patch my distros daily whats your point ? You just said it your in control... MS has removed that. /thread
 
ChadD said:
I patch my distros daily whats your point ? You just said it your in control... MS has removed that. /thread
Click to expand...

Not at the enterprise level. However, every month we patch Windows and Linux. Period. So no, there's really no control over having to update, it's just a matter of timing. I just find it funny that even with Windows 7, once or twice a month we get updates, you get three days at most, and that's it, reboot. We don't go for record uptimes either. EVERYTHING server or desktop, Linux or Windows, is forced to reboot once a month.
 
Uh oh! Bad things about Win10!
[clicks Show Ignored Content]
*sees red herrings and straw men all over*
Yep, nothing to see here, move along; totally no shills here. :whistle::whistle::whistle:
 
zero2dash said:
[clicks Show Ignored Content]
*sees red herrings all over*
Yep, nothing to see here, move along; totally no shills here. :whistle::whistle::whistle:
Click to expand...

:cry::notworthy:(n):whistle::vomit: Need I say more? (All this typed from my solid, stable Windows 10 Pro and AMD Ryzen build. :) ) Hmmm, guess I will not have not be worried about my updates being blocked after all. :D
 
Aw, ain't he cute!
Must...defend...Win10...no...matter...what.
You boys really should get a room. :love:
 
zero2dash said:
Aw, ain't he cute!
Must...defend...Win10...no...matter...what.
You boys really should get a room. :love:
Click to expand...

Lets see, arguing with someone I do not even know on the internet. Guess I am not going to get any sleep tonight, I just have to prove him wrong. :D
 
heatlesssun said:
Not at the enterprise level. However, every month we patch Windows and Linux. Period. So no, there's really no control over having to update, it's just a matter of timing. I just find it funny that even with Windows 7, once or twice a month we get updates, you get three days at most, and that's it, reboot. We don't go for record uptimes either. EVERYTHING server or desktop, Linux or Windows, is forced to reboot once a month.
Click to expand...

Now your talking about your companies policies... not the manufacturers.

And record uptimes don't mean not doing updates. The only updates that require me to reboot most linux systems are kernel updates.
 
ManofGod said:
:cry::notworthy:(n):whistle::vomit: Need I say more? (All this typed from my solid, stable Windows 10 Pro and AMD Ryzen build. :) ) Hmmm, guess I will not have not be worried about my updates being blocked after all. :D
Click to expand...

As one individual that's never had a problem with Windows 10 updates, don't assume like some form of blanket statement that the Windows 10 updating process isn't terribly flawed and by no means fault free. Because as someone that has access to a larger pool of machines that aren't protected by corporate/enterprise networks I can assure you this is far from being the case in any way whatsoever.

heatlesssun said:
Not at the enterprise level. However, every month we patch Windows and Linux. Period. So no, there's really no control over having to update, it's just a matter of timing. I just find it funny that even with Windows 7, once or twice a month we get updates, you get three days at most, and that's it, reboot. We don't go for record uptimes either. EVERYTHING server or desktop, Linux or Windows, is forced to reboot once a month.
Click to expand...

Who cares? What has this got to do with Microsoft forcing people off Windows 7 due to them upgrading their hardware in an attempt to force Windows 10 onto the user? I personally couldn't care less about the methods your workplace choose when it comes to updating. The fact is, at consumer level, the Windows updating process needs more user control and less Microsoft control as it's the consumer's PC.

But MS want everyone on Windows 10 as that's their new revenue base, centred around advertising and the exploitation of user data.
 
Worst part about this is the enterprise impact. I've currently got an issue where we are having to change our common user workstation off of LTSB and get onto more of the mainstream builds (so, more crapware that we don't need...) to be able to support coffee lake when it comes out...
 
xrealm20 said:
Worst part about this is the enterprise impact. I've currently got an issue where we are having to change our common user workstation off of LTSB and get onto more of the mainstream builds (so, more crapware that we don't need...) to be able to support coffee lake when it comes out...
Click to expand...
Change to CBB, you should be fine. We're going to rollout GP changes enforcing CBB while we still can before our systems get updated to CU.
 
zero2dash said:
Change to CBB, you should be fine. We're going to rollout GP changes enforcing CBB while we still can before our systems get updated to CU.
Click to expand...

Yep, that's what we are doing. It's just a major PITA to change RIGHT before we deploy a standard for 70k workstations ;)
 
zero2dash said:
Aw, ain't he cute!
Must...defend...Win10...no...matter...what.
You boys really should get a room. :love:
Click to expand...

Nope. I've said more about Microsoft being wrong about this in specific terms and providing thought as to why beyond simplistic notions.
 
xrealm20 said:
Worst part about this is the enterprise impact. I've currently got an issue where we are having to change our common user workstation off of LTSB and get onto more of the mainstream builds (so, more crapware that we don't need...) to be able to support coffee lake when it comes out...
Click to expand...

What does this have to do with Windows 7 & 8.1 not getting automatic updates?
 
heatlesssun said:
but the bottom line is that 7 and 8.1 aren't truly compatible with these new CPUS, just like over versions of Linux, or at least older versions of the kernel.
Click to expand...

there is a diferance between not been compatible and not supporting some features of the CPU

Linux issues was that it was treating all threads as cores, just disable SMT and it work fine, (same issue with bulldozer CPUs due to its shared nature, the extra cores on each modula really should of been labeled as SMT on the bulldozer and later cpus)

windows 7 only problem with RYZEN and 7th gen intel (due to lack off EHCI hand off feature removed on most motherboards ) is finding the correct USB 2 port that windows 7 can use without drivers or toast a windows 7 disk with the relevant drivers so you can use mouse and keyboard or use PS2 port if the mobo has one

windows 8 has no problems with RYZEN/7th gen intel as it supports the newer way USB host is offloaded (something like EHCI hand off was removed and only windows 8 or higher supports XHCI ? method, but some of the USB ports mostly the ones off the south bridge windows 7 can normal work for mouse and keyboard )

(hmm why was i not able to see the other pages until i posted lol)
 
Last edited:
xrealm20 said:
Yep, that's what we are doing. It's just a major PITA to change RIGHT before we deploy a standard for 70k workstations ;)
Click to expand...

is there any reason why you need to change of the current LTSB build (2015 or 2016) what new features does it offer
 
heatlesssun said:
So every day you're patching your OS. Every day?o_O
Click to expand...

Almost everyday yes. What do you think it means when I say I'm on a rolling release. lol

When I patch I am not only patching OS files, some days nothing OS related is changed yet I still may have a python revision or a new version of VLC might be ready ect. Its also hardly the annoying pain in the ass Windows update is. My package manager is always running anyway... it lights up when It has updates I could download. I take a look if I want them I hit install it downloads them patches my software and even 1gb of patches takes a few min... and consider I'm also running an Arch based distro where quite a few of my software packages are built from code. My system can download 100s of mbs of patches where half is just the code... compile it update everything, and still be done in a few min. I don't have to reboot I don't have to stop what I'm doing. Its painless so its no big deal. Windows will drive you made for just a few updates sometimes restarting more then once forcing you to watch blue screens while it counts down. Updating MS products always drives me insane.

I love my personal machine on a rolling release everything I run is the latest version, and yes in most cases it means my software is a few days old at most. I would never set a client up that way... but sure I have a good idea what features are being added where and what may cause me issues down the road if they don't get resolved. Its nice to know how things you use all the time are progressing.

For yourself think of it as running a developer version of Chrome.... ahh ok sorry Edge for you. :) You get a good idea of all the new features coming down the pipe. So sure you would never install the developer branch on your work machines... but running the developer branch on your own machine you would have a good idea what new features where coming to stable.

Yes heatle not many Linux users run rolling releases cause no doubt.... if you don't log in for a week your going to log in and sometimes discover 800mb of patches depending what your running and how much work has been done that week. :) For most regular users non rolling releases are what you would expect updates every week or two and not often massive amounts.
 
Last edited:
likeman said:
there is a diferance between not been compatible and not supporting some features of the CPU

Linux issues was that it was treating all threads as cores, just disable SMT and it work fine, (same issue with bulldozer CPUs due to its shared nature, the extra cores on each modula really should of been labeled as SMT on the bulldozer and later cpus)

windows 7 only problem with RYZEN and 7th gen intel (due to lack off EHCI hand off feature removed on most motherboards ) is finding the correct USB 2 port that windows 7 can use without drivers or toast a windows 7 disk with the relevant drivers so you can use mouse and keyboard or use PS2 port if the mobo has one

windows 8 has no problems with RYZEN/7th gen intel as it supports the newer way USB host is offloaded (something like EHCI hand off was removed and only windows 8 or higher supports that method, but some of the USB ports mostly the ones off the south bridge windows 7 can norm use)

(hmm why was i not able to see the other pages until i posted lol)
Click to expand...

And you might be entirely correct on this, that said, little is ever this simple with complex software and at this point simple or not, Microsoft ended support for these kinds of changes two years ago with Windows 7 and that had nothing to do with Windows 10. Period. I agreed with Megalith in the OP, Windows 8.1 should have been supported. But again, nothing to do with Windows 10 because, Windows 8.

Now blocking these updates, yeah, that has a lot to do with Windows 10 and as I've said more then anyone in this thread while still being called a Microsoft shill, MICROSOFT SHOULD NOT HAVE BLOCKED WINDOWS UPDATE HERE.

Fairly amazing how I'm the Microsoft shill but one the side of those calling me a Microsoft shill. Hell, Microsoft listens better than that.
 
ChadD said:
Almost everyday yes. What do you think it means when I say I'm on a rolling release. lol

When I patch I am not only patching OS files, some days nothing OS related is changed yet I still may have a python revision or a new version of VLC might be ready ect.
Click to expand...

Patching Python or VLC is not at all the same thing as OS patching. I have countless apps across multiple devices, daily patching of something this scenario is how it goes.
 
heatlesssun said:
Patching Python or VLC is not at all the same thing as OS patching. I have countless apps across multiple devices, daily patching of something this scenario is how it goes.
Click to expand...

Well I don't piss around updating OS files and App files by themselves heatle. I run a real OS.
$ pacman -Syu
:: Synchronizing package databases...
core is up to date 0.0 B 0.00B/s 00:00 [----------------------] 0%
extra is up to date 0.0 B 0.00B/s 00:00 [----------------------] 0%
community is up to date 0.0 B 0.00B/s 00:00 [----------------------] 0%
multilib is up to date 0.0 B 0.00B/s 00:00 [----------------------] 0%
:: Starting full system upgrade...
there is nothing to do

Its as simple as that...

Kidding I mostly use the GUI update cause honestly its easier to go through and unselect the odd update here and there if need be.

I mean if I want to get technical... I only update my kernel every couple months or so. So you could say I only update Linux that often. Everything else be it my Desktop or Xorg or bash is all just software, which you could argue perhaps is the OS or isn't.
 
blocking windows update outright is still bad part on MS i agree

more likely going to be use LTSB build on my system as can't be bothered with random software been removed because mS thinks its incompatible (makes it completely useless in a small business environment as a feature upgrade can remove software or brake the whole pc and waste 2 hours of work time performing the upgrade as well (and my time fixing somthing that was not broke)
 
heatlesssun said:
You're out if HIPAA compliance if you are running software with known vulnerabilities and do nothing to address the problem. We patch Linux servers every month just like Windows servers to cover this.
Click to expand...
You are playing word games. Again not all software that goes unpatched is necessary a security risk. This is basic understanding of software development. I understand you like Windows but that does not mean you can say things that are blatantly untrue just because you like that software. I mean good grief there are fanboys and then there are people who are grown ass people who need to be adults. You are in the latter category.
 
kac77 said:
You are playing word games. Again not all software that goes unpatched is necessary a security risk. This is basic understanding of software development. I understand you like Windows but that does not mean you can say things that are blatantly untrue just because you like that software. I mean good grief there are fanboys and then there are people who are grown ass people who need to be adults. You are in the latter category.
Click to expand...

If you are running software with known vulnerabilities that have been fixed and don't patch, there's a potential HIPAA violation there because that's negligence if those vulnerabilities are exploited. Where I work we are expected to fix known vulnerabilities. The impact of having massive amounts of customer data comprised are an incalculable risk to a large bank.

The exploit that empties tons of bank accounts. That's where you're just fucked as a bank and probably can't recover.
 
heatlesssun said:
If you are running software with known vulnerabilities that have been fixed and don't patch, there's a potential HIPAA violation there because that's negligence if those vulnerabilities are exploited. Where I work we are expected to fix known vulnerabilities. The impact of having massive amounts of customer data comprised are an incalculable risk to a large bank.

The exploit that empties tons of bank accounts. That's where you're just fucked as a bank and probably can't recover.
Click to expand...

Word games. Windows 10 is a vulnerability. Best uninstall. :p
 
ChadD said:
Word games. Windows 10 is a vulnerability. Best uninstall. :p
Click to expand...

Then you should take over our Windows 10 migration effort. Anyone with any decision making authority over that effort would waste their time in place like this and is probably prohibited from even talking about it, even anonymously.
 
heatlesssun said:
Patching Python or VLC is not at all the same thing as OS patching. I have countless apps across multiple devices, daily patching of something this scenario is how it goes.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to simply click one button and have ALL of those OS updates, Software patches, Driver updates all done for you auto magik like.

Windows is such a mess, I can't imagine ever going back to tending a windows install with a ton of software installed.
 
grtitan said:
I have to say, those two are always very entertaining and very, very loyal to ms.
Click to expand...

I'm loyal to Microsoft because I've said countless times Microsoft was wrong on this and many other things? People attacking those that say flat out that Microsoft made a bad choice and yet are still getting attacked are the true shills.
 
ChadD said:
Windows is such a mess, I can't imagine ever going back to tending a windows install with a ton of software installed.
Click to expand...

What exactly are you tending? You say "Windows" but then when was the last time any Linux user around here had to deal with if their Vive firmware was up to date? sudo apt-get install NEXT YEAR MAYBE?
 
heatlesssun said:
I'm loyal to Microsoft because I've said countless times Microsoft was wrong on this and many other things? People attacking those that say flat out that Microsoft made a bad choice and yet are still getting attacked are the true shills.
Click to expand...

I posted about one of my old jobs in another thread earlier. Reminded me of my days in management. The issue is my friend you often argue using the good old Shit Sandwich. Yes sure you agree its a bad PR move... then you spend another 20 posts defending MS's move 20 other ways. Which at some points get you to the point of arguing that MS forced auto updates with hardware killing code somehow has to do with HIPAA compliance. (a law I admit to not knowing the ins and outs of being Canadian... still I understand its been around since 97 or something, so I mean was Windows not Hippa compliant before ? .... or has it always been on users to ensure such things are followed if need be and not up to MS anyway)

If you disagree with MS on something for once ... just say that... and don't surround that statement with a shit sandwich of defense.
 
heatlesssun said:
What exactly are you tending? You say "Windows" but then when was the last time any Linux user around here had to deal with if their Vive firmware was up to date? sudo apt-get install NEXT YEAR MAYBE?
Click to expand...

Perhaps the last time a Windows user had to worry about downloading a new version of Apache ?

Stop with the VR Heatle... you live in a world where only 17% of all PCs sold even have card based GPUs. The number of those that are really capable of decent VR isn't great. Should the time come that the masses care about VR Linux support will be just fine.
https://www.engadget.com/2017/02/22/valve-launches-steamvr-support-for-linux/
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/category/Virtual-Reality

So now that Vive is Linux friendly can we please stop hearing your BS VR argument in every thread. lol

EDIT and not related at all... but now that Serious Sam VR is all good to go in Linux, I am a bit more interested then I was before. lol I joke I'm still waiting Khronos group just formalized a standard. I'll wait a bit still. LG is about to enter the VR headset game and I'm sure they won't be the only ones. When they all start using a standard I'll look it back over.... when Vulkan and hopefully OpenXR are standard I'll be sold. (it does appear to be going that way... which is very good for Linux VR)
 
Last edited:
ChadD said:
If you disagree with MS on something for once ... just say that... and don't surround that statement with a shit sandwich of defense.
Click to expand...

I disagree with Microsoft on many issues and have pointed it out many times in this forum over the years. However I don't disagree with them on EVERYTHING. And that's the difference between someone being honest and someone being a shill.
 
heatlesssun said:
I disagree with Microsoft on many issues and have pointed it out many times in this forum over the years. However I don't disagree with them on EVERYTHING. And that's the difference between someone being honest and someone being a shill.
Click to expand...

Then why try to twist things all the time to make it seem like the shitty thing they have done isn't so bad. Sometimes its best to just say yep sure that is shitty.
 
ChadD said:
Stop with the VR Heatle... you live in a world where only 17% of all PCs sold even have card based GPUs.
Click to expand...

At least two of my harshest personal critics on Windows and Windows 10 specifically will NEVER agree with you on this one. VR is out there and it's a compelling tech. If I had to run Linux to get advantage from it I'd be running an expensive piece of hardware with a Linux host to use it. But of course it's just easier to call me a shill than to talk about VR and your experience with it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top