New Paypal Terms

SamirD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 22, 2015
Messages
6,025
Anyone read these yet? Seems like they are removing Seller protections for platforms not owned by paypal as well as quite a few other changes:
  • We are expanding our Seller Protection Program to include certain intangible goods and providing the terms and conditions with respect to the coverage of such intangible goods.
  • We are clarifying that our Seller Protection Program does not cover Unauthorized Transactions initiated in an environment not hosted by PayPal.
  • For “Significantly Not as Described” claims under our Seller Protection Program, we are clarifying that the item may not be returned to sellers or sellers may be required to accept the returned item and pay for the return shipping costs.
  • We are providing the terms and conditions under which we will automatically enroll eligible charities with PayPal Giving Fund (which relationship will be governed by the Nonprofit User Agreement) with the option to opt-out at any time.
  • We are excluding items intended for resale, including single item transactions or transactions that include multiple items, from reimbursement eligibility under our Purchase Protection Program.
  • We are requiring that buyers attempt to resolve their issues directly with sellers prior to filing a claim with us in order to be eligible for reimbursement under our Purchase Protection Program.
  • We are requiring that you notify us of any pricing errors or discrepancies within ninety (90) days of having access to your account statement(s) or other account activity information, otherwise we shall have no obligation to make any corrections.
  • We are clarifying the fees payable by sellers in relation to transactions processed through QR codes, which will be payable on and from October 1, 2020 (or a later date as determined and offered by us). Prior to this date, transaction fees on QR code payments are temporarily waived to help businesses impacted by COVID-19. Other fees for using the PayPal services may apply.
  • We are adding payments made in respect of gold (in physical form or in exchange-traded form) to the list of ineligible items and transactions under our Seller Protection Policy.
Sounds like some of these would affect transactions here on HF. Thoughts?
 

Joust

Supreme [H]ardness
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Nov 30, 2017
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Hmm. Maybe I should start accepting something more beneficial to me as a seller. What's popular? Zelle?
 

SunnyD

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Messages
3,264
It's okay, I got an update from BofA telling me that purchasing crypto on their credit cards will now be considered a "cash advance" transaction. I guess that settles the question of whether bitcoin is a currency or not.
 

DPOSCORP

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Mar 10, 2000
Messages
9,970
It's okay, I got an update from BofA telling me that purchasing crypto on their credit cards will now be considered a "cash advance" transaction. I guess that settles the question of whether bitcoin is a currency or not.
Me 2
 

Spartacus09

[H]ard|Gawd
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Apr 21, 2018
Messages
1,896
Thanks, That plus the seller refund thing has been enough to drive me away. I’m doing whatever I can to avoid using it.
 

the_real_7

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
1,370
Its sounds like all the same bullshit rules passed from ebay now us forum sellers will have to deal with paypal , main reason i use heatware for over 10 years , scammer may burn you once if you let him get by without out heatware
 
D

Deleted member 89018

Guest
"At PayPal, we understand that people like to do business, sometimes in places we haven't even heard of. We want a cut of that business. We'll side with the buyer because it means we get to keep our fees."

Nothing new here, sadly. But they're still the most widely used option for payments by far, in large part because of the protection they offer buyers.
 

Tengis

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Jun 11, 2003
Messages
5,631
"At PayPal, we understand that people like to do business, sometimes in places we haven't even heard of. We want a cut of that business. We'll side with the buyer because it means we get to keep our fees."

Nothing new here, sadly. But they're still the most widely used option for payments by far, in large part because of the protection they offer buyers.

Im getting sick of the oh so credible:

what yall cashapp is im ready to refill yall what your cashtag is
 

kirbyrj

Fully [H]
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
30,241
Just had my first $.99 charge on a F&F payment for less than $10. F' that.
 

Westwood

[H]F Junkie
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Nov 17, 2012
Messages
8,487
So are the issues with PayPal mostly on the seller side of things? My account has been active since 2002, and I've never had a single issue. However, I've never sold anything so I'm guessing that's why?
 

kirbyrj

Fully [H]
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
30,241
So are the issues with PayPal mostly on the seller side of things? My account has been active since 2002, and I've never had a single issue. However, I've never sold anything so I'm guessing that's why?

I think the fees are getting out of control is really the biggest problem. If they start charging to transfer money from PayPal to my own bank account, I probably will stop using it completely other than eBay purchases.
 

Burticus

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
4,798
If Paypal has finally figured out the F&F loophole, it took them long enough.

The Paypal fees don't bother me too much, it's just kind of the cost of using them. Nothing is free in this world. I read the new Policy Update twice and don't see anything that mentioned a fee for transferring money INTO your paypal account. I think they would be nuts to try to charge us for making a deposit.

I don't trust ANY direct money transfer like Zelle or Venmo. Once that money is transferred it is gone, just like you threw a ball of cash out the car window. Banks have zero interest in trying to resolve buyer/seller disputes.
 

Dave65

Gawd
Joined
Nov 30, 2006
Messages
706
I have a shit load of parts but refuse to deal with this crap and the people who will use this to their advantage.
 

cjcox

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
2,454
so... paypal users have zero reputation... do I have that correct?

IMHO, they've opened the door wide open for a competitor. Anyone?
 

SamirD

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Mar 22, 2015
Messages
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This is an interesting discussion. I wonder if anyone has opened the door to a true 'escrow' service that works for micro transactions?
 

Gillbot

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Messages
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Serve used to be a great alternative but they bailed as soon as they started gaining popularity.
 
D

Deleted member 89018

Guest
Apple Pay Cash and Google Pay are options, though not as popular for private traders. Works well in a small community but you'd want to lean hard on knowledge of members and rep like heatware. Exchanging texts helps.

Basically you're down to: deal with paypal's fees or use the digital equivalent of western union. /shrug
 

SamirD

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So there's room here for an 'mini-escrow ' player of some sort if someone can work out the legalities, efficiencies, and profit model. (y)
 

SPARTAN VI

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Messages
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So there's room here for an 'mini-escrow ' player of some sort if someone can work out the legalities, efficiencies, and profit model. (y)
OfferUp does this, but they charge a 12.9% (to a minimum of $1.99) fee for the peace of mind.

Not directed at you specifically, but to anyone who is curious about how it operates.
  • Buyer purchases merchandise and pays shipping costs.
  • OfferUp provides seller with a prepaid shipping label.
  • Seller has 6 days to ship out the merchandise. Reminders are sent after 48, and again at 72 hours. Order is cancelled by the 6th day.
  • Seller ships the merchandise. OfferUp provides tracking updates to both parties.
  • Funds are held in escrow until the merchandise is delivered.
  • Once delivered, the buyer has 48 hours to inspect the goods.
  • If the buyer approves (or the 48 hours elapses), the funds are released via ACH (electronic payment) to the seller's account minus the 12.9% fee (minimum of $1.99 fee) from OfferUp.
Made several purchases on OfferUp but have never had to file a claim for goods not received \ as described.
 
Last edited:

SamirD

Supreme [H]ardness
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Mar 22, 2015
Messages
6,025
OfferUp does this, but they charge a 12.9% (to a minimum of $1.99) fee for the peace of mind.

Not directed at you specifically, but to anyone who is about curious how it operates.
  • Buyer purchases merchandise and pays shipping costs.
  • OfferUp provides seller with a prepaid shipping label.
  • Seller has 6 days to ship out the merchandise. Reminders are sent after 48, and again at 72 hours. Order is cancelled by the 6th day.
  • Seller ships the merchandise. OfferUp provides tracking updates to both parties.
  • Funds are held in escrow until the merchandise is delivered.
  • Once delivered, the buyer has 48 hours to inspect the goods.
  • If the buyer approves (or the 48 hours elapses), the funds are released via ACH (electronic payment) to the seller's account minus the 12.9% fee (minimum of $1.99 fee) from OfferUp.
Made several purchases on OfferUp but have never had to file a claim for goods not received \ as described.
Interesting! Thank you for posting the details! I'm always curious about business stuff like this. :)
 

NIZMOZ

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Oct 23, 2007
Messages
2,212
12.9% seems a bit much too. Any other places that we can use for protection like Paypal? Or we just sol?
 

SPARTAN VI

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Messages
8,483
Noticed today that Paypal allows buyers to elect to pay for the seller fees upfront. This used to be the primary excuse for sellers asking for F&F payments, but as we know from past trolls & tricks threads, using F&F will screw both the buyer and seller out of recourse options if the deal goes sideways.
 

SamirD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 22, 2015
Messages
6,025
Noticed today that Paypal allows buyers to elect to pay for the seller fees upfront. This used to be the primary excuse for sellers asking for F&F payments, but as we know from past trolls & tricks threads, using F&F will screw both the buyer and seller out of recourse options if the deal goes sideways.
Pretty cool! I was always using the tool here to calculate the fees if I wanted the seller to be fee free:
https://salecalc.com/paypal
 

bonehead123

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 27, 2011
Messages
1,445
OfferUp does this, but they charge a 12.9% (to a minimum of $1.99) fee for the peace of mind.

Not directed at you specifically, but to anyone who is curious about how it operates.
  • Buyer purchases merchandise and pays shipping costs.
  • OfferUp provides seller with a prepaid shipping label.
  • Seller has 6 days to ship out the merchandise. Reminders are sent after 48, and again at 72 hours. Order is cancelled by the 6th day.
  • Seller ships the merchandise. OfferUp provides tracking updates to both parties.
  • Funds are held in escrow until the merchandise is delivered.
  • Once delivered, the buyer has 48 hours to inspect the goods.
  • If the buyer approves (or the 48 hours elapses), the funds are released via ACH (electronic payment) to the seller's account minus the 12.9% fee (minimum of $1.99 fee) from OfferUp.
Made several purchases on OfferUp but have never had to file a claim for goods not received \ as described.

WARNING TO ALL:

For buyers, OfferUp has some serious issues, to wit:

5 times recently, my wife has bought stuff on there, and during the transaction it stated the shipping cost as a certain $ amount, which is usually a lot less than what you would think it would cost for shipping...most recently was a normal, 12cup coffeemaker shipping for $3.99.

Then when the USPS attempts to deliver it, they claim that there is $18.38 postage due.... F that...$22 to ship a small, lightweight $20 item... F that !

She has spoken to them several times on the phone & all they do is give her some bullcrap runaround about how the seller underestimated the shipping weight or some other nonsense....so she refuses the delivery & it goes back to the buyer....

I have bought & sold ALOT of stuff here in the Buy/sell forum, so I have a pretty good idea what it costs to ship stuff.... and the amounts they list during the transactions are way lower than normal.

Note that this happens only when you choose to ship the items through THEIR website & THEY generate the shipping labels for the sellers....

The 1 time I bought something there & asked the seller NOT to use OU's services, the shipping charges were pretty accurate & fair, and I received the item without any postage due notice from the USPS :)

We have yet to get a straight answer from them, and will not buy anything else there until it is resolved. If anyone knows how to fix this, please post it here for all to see, or pm me at your earliest convenience. TY
:)
 

dvsman

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Joined
Dec 2, 2009
Messages
3,628
I wasn't sure where else to post this question so - figured I'd drop it here.

Before when I used to use Paypal it would give you an option to friends and family or buy/sell. Pretty straight forward. Recently - it looks like they revamped their website - it goes straight to payment / enter email and doesn't give an option on FF or B/S. Then skips to form of payment right away (which for me is a credit card, but I also have a bank account attached).

Am I missing something on the page / a button or something? I have dark mode turned on due to eyesight issues but don't imagine that could be the issue.

Any ideas? This is on PC not the phone app BTW. I'm sure others who are dunces like me, would like to know too.
 

MissJ84

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Messages
2,155
I wasn't sure where else to post this question so - figured I'd drop it here.

Before when I used to use Paypal it would give you an option to friends and family or buy/sell. Pretty straight forward. Recently - it looks like they revamped their website - it goes straight to payment / enter email and doesn't give an option on FF or B/S. Then skips to form of payment right away (which for me is a credit card, but I also have a bank account attached).

Am I missing something on the page / a button or something? I have dark mode turned on due to eyesight issues but don't imagine that could be the issue.

Any ideas? This is on PC not the phone app BTW. I'm sure others who are dunces like me, would like to know too.
Click More, which is to the right of Crypto, then you'll see Send a gift in the drop down.
 

dvsman

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 2, 2009
Messages
3,628
Thanks!

Of course they hide it off in a corner where it's not on the actual transaction screen. What a great idea! /s
 
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