New Notebook came with Win10 :(

[auntjemima]

p.s. There is another major update coming out for Win10 soon. I am not having my time wasted by Microsoft like happened when I first got the laptop. Buy laptoop, fire it up, find out it is not the latest build, spend next day in frustration updating the damn thing. Yea, that really pissed me off and don't want it to happen again anytime soon. Seriously, Microsoft has dun goofed, IMO.

You will never buy a prebuilt system with the newest OS updates on it. Even Linux systems will need to be updated. My Mint install has had daily updates through the manager. Unless you expect a third party reseller to start and update every Windows laptop they have every time an update comes out, you will always have this issue.

This is a software issue, not a Windows 10 issue. Windows 7 was in no better a place when it was their flagship OS. Windows XP as well. Systems were sold without their Service Pack updates and those took ages and had a habit of destroying your windows install.

Your unwavering hate for Windows 10 is adorable.

 

[auntjemima]

Why even bundle Windows with these cheap devices? It adds no value, users hate 10, and most people would have a better experience with a decent sized SSD and Linux Mint.

No, "users", don't hate Windows 10. People who want to make a pointless point hate Windows 10. They cry and cry about spying and then quickly install Chrome and off they go. Google has been doing this for years, yet people happily give it away and don't care.

You ask a random person who just wants a laptop and they don't care about what's on it. Their extent of Windows 10 is running their browser and sending their children stupid forwarded emails.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

No, "users", don't hate Windows 10. People who want to make a pointless point hate Windows 10. They cry and cry about spying and then quickly install Chrome and off they go. Google has been doing this for years, yet people happily give it away and don't care.

What a dishonest argument. I own my computer, I have a right to privacy on my desktop. I don't own Google's servers. I don't have a right to privacy if I send data to their servers.

And yeah, they hate it. Windows 10 is so bad they literally couldn't give it away. It's already practically flatlined, Windows 7 actually did better than 10 back in December.

 

[rezerekted]

You will never buy a prebuilt system with the newest OS updates on it. Even Linux systems will need to be updated. My Mint install has had daily updates through the manager. Unless you expect a third party reseller to start and update every Windows laptop they have every time an update comes out, you will always have this issue.

This is a software issue, not a Windows 10 issue. Windows 7 was in no better a place when it was their flagship OS. Windows XP as well. Systems were sold without their Service Pack updates and those took ages and had a habit of destroying your windows install.

Your unwavering hate for Windows 10 is adorable.

I had ElementaryOS installed in five minutes and updates done in another five. ElementaryOS is a lightweight version of Ubuntu and why I use it. After you install it you go get the software you want installed and it has a built in prog for that. Out of the box it just comes with some basic stuff and the GUI is similar to Mac.

In regards to Win10. I'm talking about the major build version mandatory update and not regular updates.

I could make Win10 work by installing classicshell as I do with Win8 but these build updates really turn me off.

 

[Stoly]

I had ElementaryOS installed in five minutes and updates done in another five. ElementaryOS is a lightweight version of Ubuntu and why I use it. After you install it you go get the software you want installed and it has a built in prog for that. Out of the box it just comes with some basic stuff and the GUI is similar to Mac.

In regards to Win10. I'm talking about the major build version mandatory update and not regular updates.

I could make Win10 work by installing classicshell as I do with Win8 but these build updates really turn me off.

This classicshell thing is hillarious. Back when XP was released. Many people wanted the Windows98 look and feel. Fast forward to Vista, and that same people wanted the XP look and feel, skip to Windows 7 and people cried because AERO was removed and wanted it back... and so on and so forth...

 

[Chuklr]

What a dishonest argument. I own my computer, I have a right to privacy on my desktop. I don't own Google's servers. I don't have a right to privacy if I send data to their servers.

And yeah, they hate it. Windows 10 is so bad they literally couldn't give it away. It's already practically flatlined, Windows 7 actually did better than 10 back in December.

Everyone is welcome to their own opinions, but it's a mistake to conflate their own opinion to be the opinion of "everybody". Opinions are like rectums, everybody has one.

As for "...practically flatlined ..."? I would rather have a 1% increased on a 100,000,000 population base than a 5% increase on a 100,000 population base.

Just my 2¢.

 

[Ur_Mom]

The webcam works fine in Linux, I was talking about a boresight cam I have that doesn't work.

https://www.amazon.com/niceEshop-Wa...qid=1487997571&sr=8-2&keywords=bore+sight+cam

My mistake... I did read through the thread, I swear!

 

[DeathFromBelow]

This classicshell thing is hillarious.

Because being able to customize your start menu is hilarious? I used ClassicShell on Vista for the customization options. That was long before Microsoft started going nuts with the start menu.

That simple little menu is more functional than the entire Windows 8 start screen (and yes, you can search like normal with it, too). I have yet to meet a single person in real life who can actually use Windows 8/10 without a start menu replacement. Over time I think it's become clear that Microsoft deliberately broke the start menu as part of their efforts to push people towards apps, just like they deliberately broke Windows Update for 7 users.

And rezereckted is right, one of the things I love about Linux is how easy it is to set up. It's at the point now where everything usually 'just works.' Installs are fast, updates are fast, and in my case Linux Mint requires almost no additional work to configure to my liking, I just load my Firefox plugins and Steam/games.

 

[Ur_Mom]

I have yet to meet a single person in real life who can actually use Windows 8/10 without a start menu replacement.

I agree with most, but this I have to call BS. Either you don't get out much, or you're talking shit. I know a lot of people that use a Start Menu replacement (we use it at work if we deploy a Windows 8 machine). But, there are still a ton of people that don't.

 

[SuperSubZero]

I never used a Start menu replacement through 8-10.

 

[BulletDust]

I never used a Start menu replacement through 8-10.

I did on Windows 8, couldn't stand that Start mess under 8. There is, however, a number of users that are completely confused by the overall layout and fragmented UI of Windows 10.

 

[heatlesssun]

I did on Windows 8, couldn't stand that Start mess under 8. There is, however, a number of users that are completely confused by the overall layout and fragmented UI of Windows 10.

I'm guessing that the majority of Windows 7 users that move to 10 aren't completely confused. I know one thing that you mention is the Control Panel/Settings issue but how many Windows 10 users are spending a great deal of time with that? Settings does more closely mirror the settings on mobile devices and I've seen younger people pick on that pretty quickly.

I see the UI in Windows 10 like the Ribbon UI in Office. As much as the Ribbon is hated by many, the mass confusion that some predicted would be caused by it simply didn't happen. There is a certain level of change that is easier to adapt to than others. Windows 8 has too much change for too many desktop users and I long said that it was and I stressed in particular the always full screen elements like the Start Screen that I said from day one needed to be resizable and more naturally fit in an windowed OS.

You ask the average Windows users what the Control Panel is or what's even in the CP you're going to get a lot of blank stares. If you are a person that committed the CP or anything to muscle memory then any change will be disruptive.

 

[modi123]

Agreed. Win10 was rolled out to our entire company with little issue outside of the occasional "where's my cheese". Folks noticed things like the boot time was faster and they had more space.

Though I still wouldn't mind knowing this boresight cam's make and model to see which linux version would work best for it... but seems the convo derailed far from that.

 

[Ur_Mom]

You ask the average Windows users what the Control Panel is or what's even in the CP you're going to get a lot of blank stares.

If you've ever worked in tech support, you know how true this is. You have to explain how to get there most of the time.

The more advanced people? They can figure out the difference in Windows 10.

 

[ManofGod]

If you've ever worked in tech support, you know how true this is. You have to explain how to get there most of the time.

The more advanced people? They can figure out the difference in Windows 10.

It is real easy in Windows 10 to explain. Right click the start button and then left click the control panel.

 

[heatlesssun]

It is real easy in Windows 10 to explain. Right click the start button and then left click the control panel.

That option has been removed from the Creators Update. The only way to access the Control Panel is through All Programs under Windows System->Control Panel or by typing "Control Panel" from Start. It's clear that Microsoft is slowly deprecating Control Panel.

And I don't think that's a problem per se, but they are removing/replacing things like the ability to control font sizes on system elements. And I get why people don't like that sort of them but these particular settings are problematic for a number of particularly older programs that never accounted for this soft of thing. And the only reasons most people touched these particular settings were around scaling issues, and 10 is simply much better at scaling that 7 and even better than 8.

 

[Ur_Mom]

It is real easy in Windows 10 to explain. Right click the start button and then left click the control panel.

It's gone in the newest builds. Microsoft has stated that they are moving things from control panel to the new Settings app.

Windows Defender in the newest builds is a big change, too.

 

[BulletDust]

I'm guessing that the majority of Windows 7 users that move to 10 aren't completely confused. I know one thing that you mention is the Control Panel/Settings issue but how many Windows 10 users are spending a great deal of time with that? Settings does more closely mirror the settings on mobile devices and I've seen younger people pick on that pretty quickly.

I'm guessing you have no idea how computer illiterate the average user is. The [H] user base is a minority.

 

[heatlesssun]

I'm guessing you have no idea how computer illiterate the average user is. The [H] user base is a minority.

If people are confused by going from Windows 7 to Windows 10 then they must have developed some literacy with Windows 7.

 

[BulletDust]

If people are confused by going from Windows 7 to Windows 10 then they must have developed some literacy with Windows 7.

Windows 7 is simple and straightforward, Windows 10 is not. Click one wrong icon and the whole appearance of the OS changes. For the bulk of the population this is an issue.

Do you think I'm making this up to highlight some point?

 

[Deleted member 245375]

You two do realize you're going off the rails yet again into territory that really has nothing to do with the actual OP topic, right?

Beating so many dead horses, I swear P.E.T.A. is gonna have a field day with you at some point.

 

[BulletDust]

The thread topic is the OP voicing his preference for an OS other than Windows 10? I don't see this discussion going off topic at all.

 

[heatlesssun]

Windows 7 is simple and straightforward, Windows 10 is not. Click one wrong icon and the whole appearance of the OS changes. For the bulk of the population this is an issue.

Do you think I'm making this up to highlight some point?

There's only one thing that does what you're saying that I know of, the Tablet Mode button and that only works in specific situations. Since the last time I mentioned it this I realized that the Tablet Mode button will be enabled on a device that has no touch capability if you take the OS drive and install it a system that doesn't have touch capability.

In any case, that one button and everyone is confused thing as far as I know isn't a common thing on a non-touch system.

 

[BulletDust]

There's only one thing that does what you're saying that I know of, the Tablet Mode button and that only works in specific situations. Since the last time I mentioned it this I realized that the Tablet Mode button will be enabled on a device that has no touch capability if you take the OS drive and install it a system that doesn't have touch capability.

In any case, that one button and everyone is confused thing as far as I know isn't a common thing on a non-touch system.

What?! Your comment about Tablet Mode makes no sense whatsoever, and I mean that, it literally makes no sense. I can activate Tablet Mode just fine on my Windows PC without a touch interface in sight and that OS has never been installed on anything but my desktop PC. The same with the NUC 615SYH demo machine I have here, I can enable Tablet Mode just fine and that OS has only every been installed on the NUC with no touch interface. Furthermore people don't like the active tiles, in fact many are totally opposed to the idea and just want them turned off. Windows 10 Mail doesn't even show certain attachments with no real pattern whatsoever, people don't like the alphabetised Start Menu with Windows Applications right down the bottom and they can't be arsed pinning things to the Start Menu itself, SD cards don't automatically open on certain machines....The list goes on, I hear this all day, every day.

The fact is a great many people were not one bit happy with waking up one morning and turning on their PC only to find Windows 10 installed, it rightly pissed the masses off.

To the average user, compared to Windows 7 and every other OS around ATM, Windows 10 with it's colours, flashy active tiles and fragmented UI is a mess. It's better than Windows 8/8.1, but you have to consider that many totally skipped 8/8.1 so most have no benchmark for comparison.

 

[BulletDust]

That option has been removed from the Creators Update. The only way to access the Control Panel is through All Programs under Windows System->Control Panel or by typing "Control Panel" from Start. It's clear that Microsoft is slowly deprecating Control Panel.

And I don't think that's a problem per se, but they are removing/replacing things like the ability to control font sizes on system elements. And I get why people don't like that sort of them but these particular settings are problematic for a number of particularly older programs that never accounted for this soft of thing. And the only reasons most people touched these particular settings were around scaling issues, and 10 is simply much better at scaling that 7 and even better than 8.

Your bias is impressive sometimes, for a change it would be nice to see some reasoning for once, an acceptance when Microsoft makes a stupid decision. The 'Settings Menu' sucks. It's simplistic, dumbed down - But to no real advantage as it's simply non intuitive.

In direct comparison, the Control panel works, as it always did. The Control Panel is intuitive, icons relate closer to the options they're designed to represent in comparison to the limited selection pallet available in the dumbed down Settings Menu. The Control Panel offers a broader level of control than the Settings Menu. The Control Panel is more suited to desktop application, the Setting's Menu is obviously biased more towards touch application with it's simpler interface designed more for a 'fat fingered approach' as opposed to a more superior mouse/keyboard perspective.

The push towards the Settings Menu has little to do with DPI scaling when it's so obviously designed for touch application. There was nothing wrong with the Control Panel, it worked - Change is only ever really good when necessary and better DPI scaling could have been added to legacy, but very useful and superior Control Panel applications.

And now, once again in an attempt to push the way the user does everything with their PC towards the way Microsoft would prefer the user interact with Microsoft's PC the Control Panel is deliberately being hidden from the user, I assume soon the intention is to remove it altogether in future updates?

Windows 10 had potential to be a Windows 7 killer, the issue with the mess available now is that it's simply too intrusive with too much crap built into it with no real benefit to anyone but Microsoft to really hold a candle to Windows 7, OSX/macOS and Linux as a true desktop OS. No one cares about continuity between touch/desktop devices, that's the line Microsoft are trying to feed the lost masses. A desktop machine uses a desktop OS, the touch machine can use a touch OS with the addition of a desktop OS if the end user wants it while using a stylus. Trying to argue the point "well it's popular, so it can't be that bad" is like claiming that McDonalds is popular so they must have great food, or a turd is popular because it attracts hundreds of flies. We all know "popular" is never an absolute measurement of "great", especially when Windows 10 usage statistics are flat lining.

 

[heatlesssun]

Your bias is impressive sometimes, for a change it would be nice to see some reasoning for once, an acceptance when Microsoft makes a stupid decision. The 'Settings Menu' sucks. It's simplistic, dumbed down - But to no real advantage as it's simply non intuitive.

In direct comparison, the Control panel works, as it always did. The Control Panel is intuitive, icons relate closer to the options they're designed to represent in comparison to the limited selection pallet available in the dumbed down Settings Menu. The Control Panel offers a broader level of control than the Settings Menu. The Control Panel is more suited to desktop application, the Setting's Menu is obviously biased more towards touch application with it's simpler interface designed more for a 'fat fingered approach' as opposed to a more superior mouse/keyboard perspective.

The push towards the Settings Menu has little to do with DPI scaling when it's so obviously designed for touch application. There was nothing wrong with the Control Panel, it worked - Change is only ever really good when necessary and better DPI scaling could have been added to legacy, but very useful and superior Control Panel applications.

And now, once again in an attempt to push the way the user does everything with their PC towards the way Microsoft would prefer the user interact with Microsoft's PC the Control Panel is deliberately being hidden from the user, I assume soon the intention is to remove it altogether in future updates?

I think what you're calling intuitive has more to do with age. Of course any change from the way things have been done for a long time will have some issues. I think it's fair to debate functional differences but I do think Settings makes sense today when that's where people do similar things on a phone.

Windows 10 had potential to be a Windows 7 killer, the issue with the mess available now is that it's simply too intrusive with too much crap built into it with no real benefit to anyone but Microsoft to really hold a candle to Windows 7, OSX/macOS and Linux as a true desktop OS. No one cares about continuity between touch/desktop devices, that's the line Microsoft are trying to feed the lost masses. A desktop machine uses a desktop OS, the touch machine can use a touch OS with the addition of a desktop OS if the end user wants it while using a stylus. Trying to argue the point "well it's popular, so it can't be that bad" is like claiming that McDonalds is popular so they must have great food, or a turd is popular because it attracts hundreds of flies. We all know "popular" is never an absolute measurement of "great", especially when Windows 10 usage statistics are flat lining.

There are far too many 2 in 1 and other Windows touch devices to say that no one cares about continuity between touch/desktop devices.

 

[rezerekted]

Agreed. Win10 was rolled out to our entire company with little issue outside of the occasional "where's my cheese". Folks noticed things like the boot time was faster and they had more space.

Though I still wouldn't mind knowing this boresight cam's make and model to see which linux version would work best for it... but seems the convo derailed far from that.

I will try to find the box it came in. It is this one: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00H08GN24/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

To the other's saying we don't need classicshell. I say BS. Maybe on Win10 you can get by without classicshell but on Win8 it is a must have. There is no way I would use Win8 without classicshell. Nope, never. Win8 with classicshell is better than Win7, IMO.

See here? That is how I use the control panel, don't even have to go to a control panel screen, set it up with classicshell so it just cascades from the start menu. It is brilliant, let's see you do that with your Fisher Price
default start menu in Win10.

 

[heatlesssun]

To the other's saying we don't need classicshell. I say BS. Maybe on Win10 you can get by without classicshell but on Win8 it is a must have. There is no way I would use Win8 without classicshell. Nope, never. Win8 with classicshell is better than Win7, IMO.

I can see the reasoning here. The full screen nature of the Start Screen in 8.x I said from day one needed to change. For most people Start in Windows 7 and 10 would be about equivalent on a keyboard and mouse driven device. One thing that's been added to upcoming Creators Update, tile folders. That fixes what I consider a huge problem with Start in 10 currently, no way to group things into a folder like structure.

I know there are those that hate tiles but ultimately I think Start in 10 tends to six of one compared to half a dozen of the other compared to Start in 7.

 

[BulletDust]

I think what you're calling intuitive has more to do with age. Of course any change from the way things have been done for a long time will have some issues. I think it's fair to debate functional differences but I do think Settings makes sense today when that's where people do similar things on a phone.



There are far too many 2 in 1 and other Windows touch devices to say that no one cares about continuity between touch/desktop devices.

A vast, although expected generalisation.