New MSI 7950 Twin Frozr 3 PCB

BababooeyHTJ said:
Guys, what do you find funny about this 7950? :D

Yes, this is an MSI TF3!

SgDwf.png
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Is that your card?


I see HD7970 shaders.

Is that a glitch?

What is your shader count on a screen shot of individual cards? May be a crossfire glitch on GPU-Z. Not sure.

HWinfo64 picks up 2048 shaders on my card.
 
SonDa5 said:
Is that your card?


I see HD7970 shaders.

Is that a glitch?
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No sir, I flashed an MSI 7970 bios onto it. The bottom card which I haven't flashed yet is still reporting 1792. I'm going to play around with the top card to see what happens first.
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
No sir, I flashed an MSI 7970 bios onto it. The bottom card which I haven't flashed yet is still reporting 1792. I'm going to play around with the top card to see what happens first.
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That is neat if you were able to flash it.


I'm going to have to try your MSI TF3 BIOS then flash it to MSI HD7970. :)
 
I don't think that'll make much of a difference. It should either flash or it won't. I'll upload if you really want to try though.

I will say this. The one thing that I'm not liking is that it uses the fan profile of the reference card which is no where near aggressive enough. I wonder if Wizzard could make a utility like he did for 6950?
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
I don't think that'll make much of a difference. It should either flash or it won't. I'll upload if you really want to try though.

I will say this. The one thing that I'm not liking is that it uses the fan profile of the reference card which is no where near aggressive enough. I wonder if Wizzard could make a utility like he did for 6950?
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Somebody from OCN sent me the new MSI TF3 BIOS dated from May. I was able to flash it onto my card and it wasn't as stable at 1300mhz so I went back to my SApphire. I am going to try your bios again but this time right after flashing the HD7950 BIOS I will try flashing the HD7970 BIOS.

Could you post a link to the MSI HD7970 BIOS from TPU that you used to flash your card?
 
Well it seems card 1 doesn't like more than 1100MHz on the core at 1.2V.

On to card 2 testing!
 
SonDa5 said:
Thanks.


That is without a water block?
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Yes without waterblock. Seeing as temps never got above 75C though, I think I'm silicon limited here and not thermally limited.

I'll probably return this card anyways. It has coil whine that is so high pitched it drives me crazy sometimes (older folks wouldn't hear it).

Card 2 has an ASIC score of 90.0%.
 
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FaRKle0079 said:
I'll probably return this card anyways. It has coil whine that is so high pitched it drives me crazy sometimes (older folks wouldn't hear it).
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Interesting. So I guess even MSI's solid state chokes are prone to whine. What a shame, it was marketing after all. Is nothing' sacred anymore?

... Good thing I just bought the Gigabyte 7950 instead. :D
 
Is there any good reason to go with a universal block with these cards? There is a good chance that the 7970 version of the MCW82 won't fit on future cards and once you combine the price of that and a uni-sink you're getting pretty close to the price of a full cover block. Am I wrong here?
 
I got the Swiftech MCW82-7900 when it came out. I didn't get the PCB heat sink because my stock PCB heatsink works well.


The MCW82-7900 performs very well for me. I'm happy with it. Also there are adapters for it that will convert it to fit NVIDIA and other ATI cards. I think its a very well designed block.

I feel like a got a good water cooling block for the money.

I came close to buying a HEatkiller HD7970 block but I'm fine with what I have.


Other reference HD7970 water blocks should fit our HD7950 without any problems because we have the HD7970 reference PCB design.
 
Ajiki-kun said:
Interesting. So I guess even MSI's solid state chokes are prone to whine. What a shame, it was marketing after all. Is nothing' sacred anymore?

... Good thing I just bought the Gigabyte 7950 instead. :D
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Good luck with your card. Hope it over clocks well and doesn't whine.



My Sapphire HD7950 950mhz Edition doesn't whine. :)
 
SonDa5 said:
I got the Swiftech MCW82-7900 when it came out. I didn't get the PCB heat sink because my stock PCB heatsink works well.


The MCW82-7900 performs very well for me. I'm happy with it. Also there are adapters for it that will convert it to fit NVIDIA and other ATI cards. I think its a very well designed block.

I feel like a got a good water cooling block for the money.

I came close to buying a HEatkiller HD7970 block but I'm fine with what I have.


Other reference HD7970 water blocks should fit our HD7950 without any problems because we have the HD7970 reference PCB design.
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Would the 7900 version work with other cards with that base? Did it come with the standard flat base that the normal MCW82 comes with?

My gripe is that the MCW82 and heatsink would cost almost $100 while an XSPC full cover block is $80. If there was any guarantee that the block would fit later cards for the price of a $10 mounting kit I would be happy to go that route.
 
Can't hear any whine from my card. Well that's a lie, when I was at absurd fps from a stress test triangle I could hear some whine, but that was in the thousands of fps if I remember.

Also re the XSPC 7970 block. I was initially planning to get it, but the VRM part is attached to the rest of the block, so it doesn't pass water over them afaik. (Still is probably adequate though.)
 
JS_ said:
Can't hear any whine from my card. Well that's a lie, when I was at absurd fps from a stress test triangle I could hear some whine, but that was in the thousands of fps if I remember.

Also re the XSPC 7970 block. I was initially planning to get it, but the VRM part is attached to the rest of the block, so it doesn't pass water over them afaik. (Still is probably adequate though.)
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Yeah, it seems like every other full cover block on the market is going for well over $100 though. I'm sure that the XSPC is adequate, like you said.
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
Yeah, it seems like every other full cover block on the market is going for well over $100 though. I'm sure that the XSPC is adequate, like you said.
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I would stay away from that XSPC block. Looks like it was designed to trick people into thinking it is a full cover water cooling block but if you look at the surface contact area you can see how poorly it is designed.


You are better off getting a Aquacool or HEatkiller which are top quality and you wont have no regrets if you really want a decent full cover block.

EK has gotten alot of crap thrown on them recently but their block design is decent just stay away from their mixed metal ones that have had problems. All copper should be fine and I have seen good deals on them. Way better than XSPC design.
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
Would the 7900 version work with other cards with that base? Did it come with the standard flat base that the normal MCW82 comes with?
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I bought it with the base for the 7970 but Swiftech also sells different bases kits for it. A little more money but still alot cheaper than buying a whole new full cover block that doesn't have any use for other video cards.

I like full cover blocks but I'm getting great temps and performance from my card with the MCW82-7900 and I will keep it for my next card.

Upgrading video card blocks can get expensive fast.
 
SonDa5 said:
I bought it with the base for the 7970 but Swiftech also sells different bases kits for it. A little more money but still alot cheaper than buying a whole new full cover block that doesn't have any use for other video cards.

I like full cover blocks but I'm getting great temps and performance from my card with the MCW82-7900 and I will keep it for my next card.

Upgrading video card blocks can get expensive fast.
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Isn't a new base and mounting hardware another $35? If you need component cooling its still another $40.

The mcw82-7900 and 7900 heatsink is as expensive as a full cover block. If you want to use that mcw82 it'll still cost you a pretty penny to use with a different card. I also don't see a standard mcw-82 base on their site. I just see the 7900 mounting kit. Maybe amd will use the same design for the gpu on their next cards and you'll get lucky but as things stand now you won't really save anything over an $80 full cover block. Unless you don't need component cooling.
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
Isn't a new base and mounting hardware another $35? If you need component cooling its still another $40.

The mcw82-7900 and 7900 heatsink is as expensive as a full cover block. If you want to use that mcw82 it'll still cost you a pretty penny to use with a different card. I also don't see a standard mcw-82 base on their site. I just see the 7900 mounting kit. Maybe amd will use the same design for the gpu on their next cards and you'll get lucky but as things stand now you won't really save anything over an $80 full cover block. Unless you don't need component cooling.
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I have component cooling on my card. My PCB heat sink has decent cooling.

I'm running 1300/1600 and with the hot summer heat my card barely hits 50C on the core with Furmark.
 
SonDa5 said:
I have component cooling on my card. My PCB heat sink has decent cooling.

I'm running 1300/1600 and with the hot summer heat my card barely hits 50C on the core with Furmark.
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Thats fine but for my initial question on the card that this thread is about....
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
Thats fine but for my initial question on the card that this thread is about....
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Run Furmark at stock clocks with HWinfo64 and closely monitor temps If VRM temps get close to 120c then the pcb heat sink is not working well.



Also if GPU is hitting in the 80c then the tf3 heatsink isn't working very well. High 60c is ok.


Does the TF3 heating have the diamond offset contact area for proper contact on GPU die?
 
SonDa5 said:
Run Furmark at stock clocks with HWinfo64 and closely monitor temps If VRM temps get close to 120c then the pcb heat sink is not working well,
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Like I said earlier more than once, it works fine with the stock heatsink. I wouldn't trust it with just a gpu block without a lot of air flow over the vrm plate, especially in crossfire.

A full cover block like the XSPC only costs $25 more than the mcw82 for the 7970 which you might not be able to use with future cards anyways.


Also if GPU is hitting in the 80c then the tf3 heatsink isn't working very well. High 60c is ok.


Does the TF3 heating have the diamond offset contact area for proper contact on GPU die?
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On a hot day you aren't going to stop these cards from getting near 80c especially when overclocking, especially in crossfire. Heat limits overclocks on these cards. Even being in the mid 70s might from what I hear. The cooler that you can keep the card the better that it'll overclock. I don't get why you would be surprised to hear that. Oh, and the default fan profile with these cards is loud.

SonDa5 said:
If over clocking this card isn't working out very well it may be related to the BIOS. I posted my BIOS at this thread at overclock.net if you guys want to try it out. http://www.overclock.net/t/1281711/hd7950-revised-with-reference-hd7970-pcb-club#post_17764613

It seems to be be working well for one of the guys there.
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I'm not so sure that you understand how a bios effects the card. The gpu is either going to hit a certain clock speed or it isn't. There are many factors that can make a difference like heat, asic quality, voltage regulation, and even luck of the draw but I don't see how the actual bios would make a difference unless its applying a different voltage which I can just do with Trixx or afterburner.
 
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Just putting the info out there. Just try if you would llike. The BIOS works well.

I have had locked BIOS that wouldn't allow high OC and then with a flash to a different BIOS the card works better.
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
A full cover block like the XSPC only costs $25 more than the mcw82 for the 7970 which you might not be able to use with future cards anyways.
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Swiftech makes a few adapter kits for the MCW82 for different GPUs. I think it will be around for awhile because it is a proven good performer. I think Swiftech will continue to support it in the event there is new hole spacing on a new video card.

If you had the regular MCW82 all you would have to do is buy the 7900 adapter kit.

http://www.swiftech.com/MountingKitMCW82-7900.aspx

If I was going full block for the HD7970/HD7950 I would not get the XSPC. It is poorly designed.


If you want to save money and get a decent full cover block I would look at these.

1st choice for the cheap but good is the new EK:


http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...-FC7970_-_Acetal_CSQ.html?tl=g30c87s143#blank


2nd choice for cheap but good is the Koolance VID AR797

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...t_info&cPath=59_971_240_581&products_id=33281


Ultimately I would just fork up a little more money and get a Heatkiller HD7970.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...erage_Water_Block_15020.html?tl=c309s1590b180
 
The XSPC block is within a few degrees of the EK block for considerably less. When you say something is poorly designed you really should back up that statement with an explanation as to why you feel that way. Yes, I know that the vrms aren't water cooled with that block. I doubt that its a big deal. Here is a good round up of 7970 full cover blocks.



Again, I'm not sure that the MCW82 7900 will be compatible with other cards later on down the road which sort of kills the point of using a gpu only block imo. There is no kit to convert the 7900 version to the standard mcw82. That base fits no other card and I don't where you can buy just the standard mcw82 base.
 
Why anyone with half a brain would suggest EK at this point eludes me. Their plating is crap. Their milling is crap. Their Customer Service is crap. Not to mention how ugly they are now. Just. blech.
 
EKs strong suit is ..... they make a water block for darned near EVER GPU ever put out onto the market! Try finding another brand for a lightning, or and ASUS DirecCU GTX 680. They're kind of the whores of the water cooling world lol
 
MaadDaawg said:
EKs strong suit is ..... they make a water block for darned near EVER GPU ever put out onto the market! Try finding another brand for a lightning, or and ASUS DirecCU GTX 680. They're kind of the whores of the water cooling world lol
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Just because they make for everything doesn't make them any good.
 
Jorona said:
Just because they make for everything doesn't make them any good.
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EK hits all the hot spots and works well, its a true full cover water block with copper heat sink touching all the hot spots and water flowing directly above hot spots taking the heat away.

XSPC doesn't have water flow over all the hot spots. The XSPC block surface area only makes contact with the gpu, ram. There is a mixed material that makes contact with the VRMS and doesn't have water flow. It's an odd design. I don't care how much hate EK has had over the last few weeks over some screw ups on recent designs. EK has improved the HD7970 block and with the bubble imprint or with the older version you can find them for around $100 and if you go with the all copper you don't have to worry about any cheap mixed metal finishes coming off. For about $100 EK offers a block that works well.
 
SonDa5 said:
EK hits all the hot spots and works well, its a true full cover water block with copper heat sink touching all the hot spots and water flowing directly above hot spots taking the heat away.

XSPC doesn't have water flow over all the hot spots. The XSPC block surface area only makes contact with the gpu, ram. There is a mixed material that makes contact with the VRMS and doesn't have water flow. It's an odd design. I don't care how much hate EK has had over the last few weeks over some screw ups on recent designs. EK has improved the HD7970 block and with the bubble imprint or with the older version you can find them for around $100 and if you go with the all copper you don't have to worry about any cheap mixed metal finishes coming off. For about $100 EK offers a block that works well.
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Then get a Heatkiller or Aquacomputer block. Same price, better performance, no crap nickel plating, and no brand that craps on its community.

If you buy EK, you're telling them that this is OK.

5c21f37c_IMG_1421.jpeg


That's a 7970 block.
 
OMG, you have got to be kidding me. Thats a block that can't be more than six months old?
 
Jorona said:
Then get a Heatkiller or Aquacomputer block. Same price, better performance, no crap nickel plating, and no brand that craps on its community.

If you buy EK, you're telling them that this is OK.

5c21f37c_IMG_1421.jpeg


That's a 7970 block.
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That looks like crap.

Looks like mixed metals with lots of oxidation and possible shorting out on the video card pcb.

One shoddy made component of a loop from radiator, barbs, blocks can cause serious problems in any loop.

I'd like to see the full thread about the rusted EK block.


I like the new EK design wh a clear cover to keep an eye on the oxidation of the block.
 
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SonDa5 said:
That looks like crap.

Looks like mixed metals with lots of oxidation and possible shorting out on the video card pcb.

Once shoddy made component of a loop from radiator, barbs, blocks can cause serious problems in any loop.

I'd like to see the full thread about the rusted EK block.


I like the new EK design wh a clear cover to keep an eye on the oxidation of the block.
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Distilled with no mixed metals and silver kill coils. That's it. The new design with the bubbles is "frosted" so you likely won't see anything until its too late.

Link to that pictures thread
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1690511&page=4

Heres a pic of it after he cleaned it with alcohol.

 
SonDa5 said:
I don't care how much hate EK has had over the last few weeks over some screw ups on recent designs.
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Try a few years over multiple manufacturing, customer service, and general ass-hattery "screw ups." It's not just recent, but the most recent ones have been their worst. (I'm not even talking about their aesthetic design decisions.)
 
Cruiza said:
Try a few years over multiple manufacturing, customer service, and general ass-hattery "screw ups." It's not just recent, but the most recent ones have been their worst. (I'm not even talking about their aesthetic design decisions.)
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I had a problem with a EK reservoir of theirs and contacted them and they sent me a new one.

I've cleaned oxidation from copper blocks before. It happens.

I really think there may have been some type of electrical contact with that rusted block photo. A little low voltage coming from a touching capacitor could cause massive oxidation and rust fast.
 
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