New HTC headsets. Vive PRO 2 and Focus 2

rgMekanic

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Welp, HTC is officially out of the market. If they release anything after these I'll be shocked.
 

LurkerLito

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I am sticking to my Vive Pro. I only really want the higher resolution, but looking at the product itself, it seems like that is the only upgrade. The lenses look the same, the headphones look the same. It seems to have a few sensors inside, but not eye tracking and given those vive lenses that's probably a good thing. So IMHO it's a pretty big ask at $799 (or $749 preorder) for just the headset. With no reviews especially about the audio which IMHO wasn't good on the Vive pro so I removed them and use better over the ear type headphones, I am not going to buy it now.
 

MaZa

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I am sticking to my Vive Pro. I only really want the higher resolution, but looking at the product itself, it seems like that is the only upgrade. The lenses look the same, the headphones look the same. It seems to have a few sensors inside, but not eye tracking and given those vive lenses that's probably a good thing. So IMHO it's a pretty big ask at $799 (or $749 preorder) for just the headset. With no reviews especially about the audio which IMHO wasn't good on the Vive pro so I removed them and use better over the ear type headphones, I am not going to buy it now.

There is also (apparently) slightly higher FOV. If you combo this with Index controller and lighthouse kit (cheaper than the full kit from Vive!) then it just might be an Index killer.

https://uploadvr.com/vive-pro-2-index-controllers-cheaper/

Oh, and the lenses are not the same.
 

reaper12

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There is also (apparently) slightly higher FOV. If you combo this with Index controller and lighthouse kit (cheaper than the full kit from Vive!) then it just might be an Index killer.

https://uploadvr.com/vive-pro-2-index-controllers-cheaper/

Oh, and the lenses are not the same.

At over $1300 I don't think it's an Index Killer. People were already complaining that the Index price was too high.
 

reaper12

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Welp, HTC is officially out of the market. If they release anything after these I'll be shocked.

It certainly looks like the are more focused on the Business/enterprise customer than competing in the consumer market.
 

MaZa

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At over $1300 I don't think it's an Index Killer. People were already complaining that the Index price was too high.

Index has only 2x1440p screens. Vive Pro 2 is 2x2.5k. If the FOV is similar then I disagree. Not on the price, both are still too fricking expensive. But if you are on a market for Index then you just might want to add couple of hundred more and get something much better. That is if Vive Pro 2 is what specs seem to promise.
 

reaper12

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Index has only 2x1440p screens. Vive Pro 2 is 2x2.5k. If the FOV is similar then I disagree. Not on the price, both are still too fricking expensive. But if you are on a market for Index then you just might want to add couple of hundred more and get something much better. That is if Vive Pro 2 is what specs seem to promise.

I think it's just our definition of killing something is very different. I wouldn't call offering more for a much higher price almost two years later as killing something.
 

RazorWind

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I am sticking to my Vive Pro. I only really want the higher resolution, but looking at the product itself, it seems like that is the only upgrade. The lenses look the same, the headphones look the same. It seems to have a few sensors inside, but not eye tracking and given those vive lenses that's probably a good thing. So IMHO it's a pretty big ask at $799 (or $749 preorder) for just the headset. With no reviews especially about the audio which IMHO wasn't good on the Vive pro so I removed them and use better over the ear type headphones, I am not going to buy it now.
According to the article it's now also 120Hz and has a wider FOV.

I'm still pretty satisfied with my Vive Pro, since it's not the limiting factor in any of the games I play, but that actually does sound like a nice upgrade if you're just buying in now. Subjectively, I think Vive Pro is more comfortable than any of the other HMDs I've used.

Before I can really use a higher resolution HMD, I need a WAY faster graphics card and CPU than my 2080 Ti and 9900K, and I don't think either of those things really exists in practical terms yet.
 

rgMekanic

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I think it's just our definition of killing something is very different. I wouldn't call offering more for a much higher price almost two years later as killing something

The only thing that this product is going to kill is HTCs marketshare. With the other, cheaper, and arguably better options out there, these are some dumb products to launch.

Apparently they learned nothing from their smartphones.
 

bobzdar

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Yeah, no way I'm going back to external tracking. I'd probably pay that for an inside out (WMR) style solution, but even then I'm getting spoiled by Quest 2 airlink...$1300 for the focus 3 is just too steep for better screens (not sure on FOV).
 
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sharknice

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Yeah, no way I'm going back to external tracking. I'd probably pay that for an inside out (WMR) style solution, but even then I'm getting spoiled by Quest 2 airlink...$1300 for the focus 3 is just too steep for better screens (not sure on FOV).

I feel the same way. Being able to just play anywhere wirelessly and not have to setup external tracking devices is awesome. I don't want to compromise on that.

The only thing I crave is higher FOV and higher resolution to go with it, which would realistically require foveated rendering with an eye tracker which the pro 2 won't even have. They're selling it later as a $300 add-on...
New features like face tracking and haptic feedback that the new Playstation VR headset is going to have could be really awesome, but the Pro 2 is missing those too.
 

noko

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Sign me up for the Vive Pro 2, Vive Pro is a fantastic headset and comfortable. My current base stations are getting "Long in the tooth" but they still work.
 

Krazy925

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I still have my OG Vive that i've had since launch. I love the thing but never found a huge reason to upgrade to the pro.

I have wireless on mine along with the upgraded headphones.

I am definitely in the market for the Pro2 but I have to imagine this is it. My nephews and nieces have the Quest 2 and I don't think HTC/Valve has the ability to compete. I won't own one because of the FB requirement but when you have kids that's not as important.

I'm not gonna be happy having to deal with Oculus in 5 years if the tech even makes it.

I didn't see if the pro2 will be wireless, and that's a big deal to me.
 

gsilver

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I'll get it if they bring out a new wireless adapter or get the old one to run the headset at full resolution. While I'm far happier with the resolution of the Vive Pro compared to the original Vive, it could definitely be better.
...And going back to wired isn't going to happen.

The Pro 2 does work with the original wireless adapter, but it's severely limited (Worse than Pro 1 at launch, and "eventually" getting just above parity)
 

MaZa

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The Pimax 8KX is 1299... That is 4k rez per eye too.

Thats the price of the headset alone, no controllers or lighthouses. The actual clarity/SDE is roughly comparable to Quest 2, just with much bigger FOV. Which is still good result, don't get me wrong, but the resolution gives a wrong impression. The panels are just wider, much like ultrawide monitors, which add to the pixel count.
 

MaZa

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The 120 degree FOV is confirmed to be horizontal. This is huge because it is bigger than Valve Index! Not as huge as Pimax obviously but Pimax's FOV is problematic anyway with their distortions and all. Anyway, if money is no object then I think Vive Pro 2 with Index controllers would be the optimal headset to get as far as features go, features that gamers need that is. IF lighthouses are not a problem foe you.
 

bobzdar

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I still have my OG Vive that i've had since launch. I love the thing but never found a huge reason to upgrade to the pro.

I have wireless on mine along with the upgraded headphones.

I am definitely in the market for the Pro2 but I have to imagine this is it. My nephews and nieces have the Quest 2 and I don't think HTC/Valve has the ability to compete. I won't own one because of the FB requirement but when you have kids that's not as important.

I'm not gonna be happy having to deal with Oculus in 5 years if the tech even makes it.

I didn't see if the pro2 will be wireless, and that's a big deal to me.

I don't get the FB concern - create an account, make it private, don't friend anyone and don't post to it. It's no different at that point to creating a steam login, google account or any other online account. Just because you create an account doesn't mean you have to share any info that you wouldn't on any other service. Unless it's just that people don't think they can resist the temptation? The hangup makes no logical sense to me.
 

Krazy925

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I don't get the FB concern - create an account, make it private, don't friend anyone and don't post to it. It's no different at that point to creating a steam login, google account or any other online account. Just because you create an account doesn't mean you have to share any info that you wouldn't on any other service. Unless it's just that people don't think they can resist the temptation? The hangup makes no logical sense to me.
No temptation. Don’t care for their business practices or the company. I also like that revive allows me to not have to use their service to play exclusives.
Why do I NEED social media to play with a VR headset? You didn’t at first.
could also just use my wife’s account lol
 

ProfessorUtopia

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I don't get the FB concern - create an account, make it private, don't friend anyone and don't post to it. It's no different at that point to creating a steam login, google account or any other online account. Just because you create an account doesn't mean you have to share any info that you wouldn't on any other service. Unless it's just that people don't think they can resist the temptation? The hangup makes no logical sense to me.
Because Facebook will simply suspend your account for being "fake". Try it and see; even if you make an effort to evade the algorithm with obscure stock images and plausible fake personal info, you're likely only prolonging the inevitable. Their A.I. for fake account detection is uncanny.

As far as Facebook is concerned, you will share your personal life, or no VR for you.
 

Koldur

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Because Facebook will simply suspend your account for being "fake". Try it and see; even if you make an effort to evade the algorithm with obscure stock images and plausible fake personal info, you're likely only prolonging the inevitable. Their A.I. for fake account detection is uncanny.

As far as Facebook is concerned, you will share your personal life, or no VR for you.
What a load of croc, I made an account, no pictures, no friends or anything and this was in October. No issues with my headset and purchases made on the Oculus store.
 

reaper12

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Because Facebook will simply suspend your account for being "fake". Try it and see; even if you make an effort to evade the algorithm with obscure stock images and plausible fake personal info, you're likely only prolonging the inevitable. Their A.I. for fake account detection is uncanny.

As far as Facebook is concerned, you will share your personal life, or no VR for you.

Where did he say make a fake account? You can create an account and set it as private and not post anything at all.

And no, you don't have to share your personal life at all.
 

bobzdar

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Because Facebook will simply suspend your account for being "fake". Try it and see; even if you make an effort to evade the algorithm with obscure stock images and plausible fake personal info, you're likely only prolonging the inevitable. Their A.I. for fake account detection is uncanny.

As far as Facebook is concerned, you will share your personal life, or no VR for you.

Yeah - just fill the required fields in only (not with fake data) and set everything to private and don't post anything or friend anyone - there are no usage requirements. Then you're literally just creating another software ecosystem account. From the FB perspective it makes no sense to have two disparate systems that have the same info, so they just merged them and gain the data analytics that come with that. From the user perspective, just use the parts you want (Oculus) and not the ones you don't (social media).
 
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The Vive Pro 2 sounds tempting indeed with that resolution upgrade while retaining 120 Hz and having an optional eye-tracker upgrade, and now that I have a Valve Index full kit, all I'd really want is the HMD itself because all the Lighthouse tracking stuff is accounted for.

(No, I'm not going to inside-out tracking for PCVR; Lighthouse is still objectively superior as a tracking solution within a given room if you're willing to put up with the external base stations. No occlusion from one's own body, potential full-body tracking with extra trackers, probably less likely to spaz out instead of holding a straight line when swinging your controllers at very high speeds.)

The problem? Well, it's hard enough to drive a Valve Index as it is, what with my GTX 980 struggling and better GPUs being unobtanium from anyone who isn't a scalper. Now try driving a much-higher-res Vive Pro 2 at the full 120 Hz without the help of foveated rendering!

Consider how the more painfully unoptimized titles like DCS World and No Man's Sky all but require an RTX 3080 or 3090 to avoid framedrops on the Index as it is, and we had to wait so many years past the Rift CV1 and first-gen Vive (which released when the top-of-the-line gaming GPU was a GTX 980 Ti or Titan X Maxwell) just to get that level of GPU performance to begin with.

I feel like HTC picked a bad time to announce this stuff, in the sense that with the current semiconductor shortage going on, there's no way that anyone's going to be able to drive this stuff properly at anything resembling a sane cost, never mind how expensive the HMDs and supporting hardware themselves are to begin with.
 

DarkStar02

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I got banned from Facebook due to their shitty AI and lost hundreds of dollars worth of games. I tried appealing to Oculus and they said the ban was on Facebook's side and their hands were tied.
 

bobzdar

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The Vive Pro 2 sounds tempting indeed with that resolution upgrade while retaining 120 Hz and having an optional eye-tracker upgrade, and now that I have a Valve Index full kit, all I'd really want is the HMD itself because all the Lighthouse tracking stuff is accounted for.

(No, I'm not going to inside-out tracking for PCVR; Lighthouse is still objectively superior as a tracking solution within a given room if you're willing to put up with the external base stations. No occlusion from one's own body, potential full-body tracking with extra trackers, probably less likely to spaz out instead of holding a straight line when swinging your controllers at very high speeds.)

The problem? Well, it's hard enough to drive a Valve Index as it is, what with my GTX 980 struggling and better GPUs being unobtanium from anyone who isn't a scalper. Now try driving a much-higher-res Vive Pro 2 at the full 120 Hz without the help of foveated rendering!

Consider how the more painfully unoptimized titles like DCS World and No Man's Sky all but require an RTX 3080 or 3090 to avoid framedrops on the Index as it is, and we had to wait so many years past the Rift CV1 and first-gen Vive (which released when the top-of-the-line gaming GPU was a GTX 980 Ti or Titan X Maxwell) just to get that level of GPU performance to begin with.

I feel like HTC picked a bad time to announce this stuff, in the sense that with the current semiconductor shortage going on, there's no way that anyone's going to be able to drive this stuff properly at anything resembling a sane cost, never mind how expensive the HMDs and supporting hardware themselves are to begin with.

I agree the external tracking is better - but for me, not enough better to be worth the hassle either in setup or in not being able to move play spaces. I can bring my Quest 2 wherever (including my yard, which is mostly shaded). I think the focus 2 is the more interesting one due to that, but they're a little light on specs with it so far - as in it has the same resolution, but does it have the same FOV, are there any plans for wireless (even if via VD) etc. - and even if all of that pans out, is it enough better to be worth 4x the cost?

If you're already invested in the Valve/HTC lighthouses and have a static play area, it makes sense, but I think that's a pretty small market at this point. That's probably reflected in the price.
 

MavericK

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I got banned from Facebook due to their shitty AI and lost hundreds of dollars worth of games. I tried appealing to Oculus and they said the ban was on Facebook's side and their hands were tied.
This is why if I was ever going to buy an Oculus product, I would create a separate FB account with ONLY Oculus games and stuff on it.

EDIT: Just read above - that is some bullshit if they are flagging accounts as fake.
 

Koldur

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This is why if I was ever going to buy an Oculus product, I would create a separate FB account with ONLY Oculus games and stuff on it.

EDIT: Just read above - that is some bullshit if they are flagging accounts as fake.
Doesn't happen if it isn't fake. Don't create an account that is not BS and it will not be locked.
 

bobzdar

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Yeah, I still don't get it - if you have an FB account, just use it. If you don't, create (a real) one and don't use any of the social media and keep it private. If you are someone who periodically "quits" social media, just delete your social media content and make your account private until you get sucked back in and repeat as necessary. FB has "thoughtfully" (ie been pressured) to make it very easy to lock your account down completely if you so desire. I'm not a big FB fan but it's quite easy to tailor and use it how you want/need, including just for Oculus and for Oculus only if that's your bent.
 

Hagrid

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Would love the external tracking again. Price is high but if it works good, I see it lasting for a while.
 

MaZa

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If this review is accurate, turns out this headset is just crap (*edit* or atleast severely underperforming for the price) and HTC even lied about the FOV. It is not even near 120 degrees horizontal, and definetly not bigger than Index. And vertical FOV is just tiny. Also the lenses are poor with incredibly small sweetspot.

 
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reaper12

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If this review is accurate, turns out this headset is just crap (*edit* or atleast severely underperforming for the price) and HTC even lied about the FOV. It is not even near 120 degrees horizontal, and definetly not bigger than Index. And vertical FOV is just tiny. Also the lenses are poor with incredibly small sweetspot.



Not really surprised.

EDIT: Just clarifying. HTC seems to use very poor quality lenses in their headsets, so I am not surprised he doesn't like the lenses in the Vive Pro 2. And because the lens shape is different, the Gear mod won't work in the new headset.

It is just one review though. If anyone has pre-ordered, I Would wait for other reviews before cancelling.
 
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MaZa

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Not really surprised.

EDIT: Just clarifying. HTC seems to use very poor quality lenses in their headsets, so I am not surprised he doesn't like the lenses in the Vive Pro 2. And because the lens shape is different, the Gear mod won't work in the new headset.

It is just one review though. If anyone has pre-ordered, I Would wait for other reviews before cancelling.

Oh yeah, I will wait for more reviews before making a final judgement but this is a very worrying turn of events. I was hoping something new would dethrone Pimax 8KX and Index from their pedestals but so far it seems like this is not the case.
 

reaper12

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Largely same issues as VoodooDE's review but interestingly they got better FOV. 🤔

I wouldn't worry so much about the horizontal FOV, that's going to vary between person to person. There will be ways to improve it, like a better face pad etc. I am not expecting it to be 120 degrees, but I do think for most people it will be better than the Valve Index. I would be more worried about the Vertical FOV as that's going to be more or less the same for everyone. It seems to be very narrow.

My biggest concern is the lenses. The Legion review actually states that the Quest 2 using Virtual desktop is more clear than the Vive 2 Pro. And it gets worse if you don't use the Vive 2 Pro at native resolution.
 

MaZa

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I wouldn't worry so much about the horizontal FOV, that's going to vary between person to person. There will be ways to improve it, like a better face pad etc. I am not expecting it to be 120 degrees, but I do think for most people it will be better than the Valve Index. I would be more worried about the Vertical FOV as that's going to be more or less the same for everyone. It seems to be very narrow.

My biggest concern is the lenses. The Legion review actually states that the Quest 2 using Virtual desktop is more clear than the Vive 2 Pro. And it gets worse if you don't use the Vive 2 Pro at native resolution.

The review you linked also mentioned that even though Vive Pro 2 has higher resolution than G2 the latter is still much sharper.
 

reaper12

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The review you linked also mentioned that even though Vive Pro 2 has higher resolution than G2 the latter is still much sharper.

Yeah that suggest a lens problem.

But, new plot twist!! :) The Voodoo guy that you linked to has put up a new video. His Vive 2 Pro is already broken. So, you can take this two ways, either HTC quality control is terrible and Vive 2 Pro headsets are going to be plagues with issues going forward. Or that his Vive 2 Pro was faulty when he got it and his review is flawed because of that.
 
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