New Glitch Hits HealthCare.gov Site

maverikv said:
LOL @ CNS News
Click to expand...

Take your pick, big boy.

How about this one directly from the CBO, thats "Congressional Budget Office" Mr. LOL.

Also, the ACA’s subsidies effectively boost the income of recipients, which will lead some of them to decide they can work less and still maintain or improve their standard of living.
Click to expand...

There is a broader question as to whether the society and the economy will be better off as a result of those choices being made available. Even though the individuals making decisions to work less presumably feel that they will be happier as a result of those decisions, total employment, investment, output, and tax revenue will be smaller. (Those effects are included in CBO’s budget and economic projections under current law.) To be sure, the health insurance system in place prior to the ACA generated its own distortions to people’s work decisions, but many of the decisions to work less under the ACA will be made possible by government-funded subsidies, the burden of which will be borne largely by other people.
Click to expand...

No problem, just tax the Rich. Take from the producers give to the couch abusers, Socialism/Democrats.

Funny huh?
 
Again, socialism is where the government owns the means of production. Obamacare provides public funds to private entities to provide health care. Not socialism.

Also, I would love to see the effect that (hopefully) innovative people don't feel tied down to a job to keep them/their family in healthcare, and can start their own businesses without going bankrupt or not being able to take care of Little Susie because of it.
 
Site is pathetic. Virtually every step errs or times out and I have screen shots to prove it. Haven't gotten to the end yet.
 
Runningflame570 said:
There is no point attempting to reason with the irrational. They'll either die off by changing their minds as reality continues to intrude or just die off period.
Click to expand...

Isn't that the natural order of things anyway? What has changed?
 
TwistedAegis said:
Again, socialism is where the government owns the means of production. Obamacare provides public funds to private entities to provide health care. Not socialism.
Click to expand...

Public Funds =
The Public Funds definition is liable to be varied as benefits are abolished from time to time, and new benefits are introduced. Public funds include a wide range of benefits which are given to people who are on a low income, as well as housing support.
Click to expand...

And, since we know Obamacare was found "Constitutional" and passed the Supreme Court as a "Tax", thus public funds are "Taxes" and who "owns" / controls the taxes? You guessed it, Government....

Yes Socialism, but nice attempt to mask/sugar coat it.
 
LurkerLito said:
Yeah you can argue about emergencies, and it's a valid point, and maybe if they offered some kind of affordable catastrophic plan I would enroll, but since I know exactly how much I spend on health, there is no chance I am going to pay them 3x what I spend annually on health care where I still have to pay for the healthcare I am using now, and if I get really sick or into an emergency, I still end up paying half the bill. That to me is too much of a scam.
Click to expand...

This is exactly the problem. The government thinks it knows what plan is best for you.

If obamacare had been a high deductable, catastrophic plan for everyone, then I would have had less of a problem with it. Instead all it has done in increase my insurance cost even more, while giving me worse insurance by increasing my deductable.

Other than basic checkups, my family has only had 1 major medical problem (broken bone) in the past 8 years, and even that didn't cost as much as I pay in insurance each year. We don't need coverage for drug treatment, counseling, acupuncture, birth control, etc. It would be much cheaper for me to buy a catastrophic plan and pay for office visits out of pocket, but that's not allowed. Instead I need to subsidize all the people who smoke, use drugs and don't take care of themselves.
 
TwistedAegis said:
As someone who's parent was just fired for the most bullshit reason, and who has a very serious illness, my perspective on this has changed. Instead of several hundred dollars per month for COBRA, she was able to choose between $9/mo for a "Bronze" package and ~$135/mo for a "Silver" package. This was the difference between having health insurance at all while having cancer. No way to afford a mortgage, even a reasonable one, and that health care cost, on unemployment.
Click to expand...

Way to palm your families healthcare cost off onto everyone else......

80% of the people signing up are being subsidzed, and of course if you rob from Peter to give Paul a handout, you can alway depend on Pauls support.
 
PinchedNerve said:
Public Funds =


And, since we know Obamacare was found "Constitutional" and passed the Supreme Court as a "Tax", thus public funds are "Taxes" and who "owns" / controls the taxes? You guessed it, Government....

Yes Socialism, but nice attempt to mask/sugar coat it.
Click to expand...

Huh? Socialism doesn't hinge on public funds or not. By your definition, any government of any kind, because it would need some level of taxation to support itself, would be socialist because it used "public funds."

Socialism is when you must go to a hospital that is owned by the government, with doctors that are government employees. That is absolutely not what is happening here. This isn't an opinion or interpretation; this is quantifiable fact.

nutzo said:
Way to palm your families healthcare cost off onto everyone else......

80% of the people signing up are being subsidzed, and of course if you rob from Peter to give Paul a handout, you can alway depend on Pauls support.
Click to expand...

You're right, unfortunately I couldn't take on the $700 per month, either. But I'm sure her just passing away at the old age of 52 would be preferable in your ideal society?
 
gamerk2 said:
Actually, costs are growing at their slowest rate in the past 50 years.
Click to expand...

Wrong. This is nothing more than a spin (lie) from this administration. The numbers they used to come up with this lie is like comparing a Lexus to a Fiat and saying car prices are coming down.

When you compare the same insurance coverage over the past 2 years, the cost have grown even faster than before.

gamerk2 said:
Of course, a public option would be better since you basically have to cover just the cost of care, rather then cost + 20%, and guarantee some basic form of coverage for everyone without exception. This is an improvement, but not the end all.
Click to expand...

As for a the public option, we know that's the goal, as soon as Obamacare finishes destorying what's left of the private health care system. Then we can all stand in line and end up dead before we finally get to see a doctor.
 
nutzo said:
As for a the public option, we know that's the goal, as soon as Obamacare finishes destorying what's left of the private health care system. Then we can all stand in line and end up dead before we finally get to see a doctor.
Click to expand...

Um, really, that's the goal of Obamacare, not to get more people access to doctors? Wow, coulda fooled me, I guess this must have been an early Obamacare test case:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=5284151
 
TwistedAegis said:
Huh? Socialism doesn't hinge on public funds or not. By your definition, any government of any kind, because it would need some level of taxation to support itself, would be socialist because it used "public funds."

Socialism is when you must go to a hospital that is owned by the government, with doctors that are government employees. That is absolutely not what is happening here. This isn't an opinion or interpretation; this is quantifiable fact.



You're right, unfortunately I couldn't take on the $700 per month, either. But I'm sure her just passing away at the old age of 52 would be preferable in your ideal society?
Click to expand...
Couldn't your extended family chip in and help? Is that too much to ask of you and them?
 
I don't have an extended family. Only a younger sibling who makes under $30k per year working at a charity.
 
TwistedAegis said:
Huh? Socialism doesn't hinge on public funds or not.
Click to expand...

You're fooling yourself.

Social democracy is a form of socialism that tries to mix parts of communism with capitalism. In this system, the government redistributes wealth from the rich to the poor like a communist state, but people can also run their own businesses and own private property like a capitalist state. Unlike communism, it is public money raised from taxes being redistributed to the poor, rather than private property eg. seizing all funds over $1 million to give to everyone. It supports gradual reform over revolution. Much of the time the people collectively (as a group) contribute money or other goods for the benefit of the entire community. An example of this would be the U.S. fire departments. They rely on taxes paid by the people to keep equipment and staff for the benefit of the community, should something catch on fire. Some of these countries use a progressive tax, where richer people are taxed more than poorer people. This tax, and other measures, helps to reduce the inequality between rich and poor in a nation.
In many countries that practice social democracy, specific services, and some industries, are subsidized and/or partially controlled by the government. For example, education, health care, housing, utility companies or public transportation are some industries that might be owned/maintained by the government in a socialist system. For the most part, people working in these industries are paid by the government, with money paid by the people as taxes. Welfare is likely offered under socialism.
Click to expand...

nutzo said:
As for a the public option, we know that's the goal, as soon as Obamacare finishes destorying what's left of the private health care system.
Click to expand...

Yes, to get to a Single Payer System. Government owned and run...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE
 
That entire section has not a single attribution and poorly written, not to mention being flagged as being biased by editors.
 
Honestly though, it isn't the website any of you should be fearing. Eventually it will get fixed and run smooth. It's the ACA itself that you should be more concerned with and all of the regulations that will be written against it by nameless and faceless bureaucrats, that we will never know about. This law is a horror show.
 
Methadras said:
It's the ACA itself that you should be more concerned with and all of the regulations that will be written against it by nameless and faceless bureaucrats, that we will never know about. This law is a horror show.
Click to expand...

I'm not a fan of ACA, despite it being personally helpful. I think it's a clusterfuck. But let's not pretend the system before it was even good, or that nameless and faceless insurance company bureaucrats weren't running it all before anyway.
 
nutzo said:
Way to palm your families healthcare cost off onto everyone else......

80% of the people signing up are being subsidzed, and of course if you rob from Peter to give Paul a handout, you can alway depend on Pauls support.
Click to expand...

You were paying and subsiding these people already, as they still went to the emergency room without insurance, racking up huge bills they couldnt pay and the hospital / other patients had to.

Think of it as birth control. Proper access to birth control radically reduces costs associated with childcare and food stamps. Proper access to healthcare *may* reduce the need of so much expensive surgery that isnt paid for. I say *may* because I am not aware of a study that actually shows it does that.
 
TwistedAegis said:
I'm not a fan of ACA, despite it being personally helpful. I think it's a clusterfuck. But let's not pretend the system before it was even good, or that nameless and faceless insurance company bureaucrats weren't running it all before anyway.
Click to expand...

Hey, I'll take private sector bureaucrats over government ones. At least I'll have some litigation recourse if things go screwball. With the government it will most likely be a no-go. Who the hell do I sue to get something I do or do not need with ACA if things go batshit crazy? The system before ACA worked and worked quite well. Not for everyone and I do consider things like lifetime caps and pre-existing conditions to be onerous for getting insured, but you know what the most valued property in health/life insurance are? The actuarial tables, that's what.
 
Cali3350 said:
You were paying and subsiding these people already, as they still went to the emergency room without insurance, racking up huge bills they couldnt pay and the hospital / other patients had to.

Think of it as birth control. Proper access to birth control radically reduces costs associated with childcare and food stamps. Proper access to healthcare *may* reduce the need of so much expensive surgery that isnt paid for. I say *may* because I am not aware of a study that actually shows it does that.
Click to expand...

No one has the generational patience it would take to see these theories run their course. It's about the costs of now. Not in the next generation.
 
Methadras said:
Hey, I'll take private sector bureaucrats over government ones. At least I'll have some litigation recourse if things go screwball. With the government it will most likely be a no-go. Who the hell do I sue to get something I do or do not need with ACA if things go batshit crazy? The system before ACA worked and worked quite well. Not for everyone and I do consider things like lifetime caps and pre-existing conditions to be onerous for getting insured, but you know what the most valued property in health/life insurance are? The actuarial tables, that's what.
Click to expand...

That's the thing, the prior system is still there. If you're employed, the vast majority of healthcare is still through your employer. It's primarily for those who didn't have insurance; I know that has changed for some, but I don't believe it is the majority.
 
It's not the website I am afraid of nor the ACA, I am afraid of a people who willingly let a terrorist president who has broken 27 Constitutional laws, a Senate and Congress who are nothing more than thieves continue to run this country into the ground and even give the liar in chief major props.

My forefathers died and created a nation were I would not be forced into such catastrophic laws and I will stand my ground. The old insurance was run by crooks and could have been cleaned up, no need to force feed me a bunch of crap. We used to be number on in the world and now we are nothing more than a food stamp nation.
 
Madoc said:
Thanks, but I get a military funeral. So that's covered.
Click to expand...

So let me get this straight: You're complaining about socialism while being employed by and presumably having the vast majority of your basic expenses paid by one of the (if not THE) largest taxpayer-funded institutions in the United States?

Makes sense.

You don't have the moral high ground to complain about paying for anyone else when the feds have paid millions of dollars to train, house, feed, and transport you. Your whole life is fully subsidized by the U.S. government.
 
Anything that requires indefinite subsidy to function isn't a healthy system. It'll collapse under it's own weight after it's consumed enough of the middle class.

We're getting closer to the point where there's only the rich and the poor. Politicians will love it when we're all poor, and they can essentially bribe us with public assistance to do whatever they want. At least until they run out of gimmicks to create money and find the public on their doorstep with rope and torches.

The planet is over-populated. Global warming and economic calamity are the natural result.
 
So much right wing nonsense on these forums. I don't know why it surprises me every time.
 
maverikv said:
So much right wing nonsense on these forums. I don't know why it surprises me every time.
Click to expand...

It's AMAZING :p

As someone with no meaningful stake in the discussion I find they whole things incredibly entertaining.
 
Runningflame570 said:
So let me get this straight: You're complaining about socialism while being employed by and presumably having the vast majority of your basic expenses paid by one of the (if not THE) largest taxpayer-funded institutions in the United States?

Makes sense.

You don't have the moral high ground to complain about paying for anyone else when the feds have paid millions of dollars to train, house, feed, and transport you. Your whole life is fully subsidized by the U.S. government.
Click to expand...

Please. Your ignorance is painful. I was a member of the US military for 6 years (1988-1994). As a veteran, I am entitled to a military funeral. Since when is six years my "whole life"? Especially since I haven't gone to the VA for anything after I got out. The way I see it, paying to put me into the ground is part of the compensation I get for my service, not living off the teat of the federal government.

In fact, it is in part *because* I have experienced first-hand the joys of being the property of the US government that I *do not* want any part of the ACA. So no, I'm not ceding the high ground here.
 
Sad thing is I would just like to option to opt out of all this stupidity. Right or Left, whatever you want to call yourself I don't give a flying fuck just stay out of my fucking business and let me be and stop stealing my money.
 
Kor said:
It's AMAZING :p

As someone with no meaningful stake in the discussion I find they whole things incredibly entertaining.
Click to expand...

I find it amusing and ironic when some right wingers will talk about socialism as being such a bad evil, then in the next breath talk about how great things were in the 50's and 60's (even if they weren't even there), the most socialistic period in US history..

Then again, they also worship Ronald Reagan, the person that warped so many people's mind into thinking that anything short of bowing to oligarchs was socialism.

What baffles me is how he got the religious to pretty much renounce and denounce any form of helping of their fellow man as socialism.

Then they talk about freedom, and want to inflict theocratic law on people.

It's all twisted, fucked up, and makes absolutely no sense to me. The new Tea Party Republican symbol should be a man with a ball-peen hammer smashing the legs of a homeless person.
 
As far as glitches and hiccups go, are people that frequent this forum really seeing this as something unique? I mean, how many times has this very site been non-accessible? I've played many an MMO with serious issues at times. In the big scheme of things, the ACA website has had issues on par with many a new website out there. It shouldn't be anything surprising to anybody that actually uses the internet on a regular basis. To be knowledgeable and to act like it's something out of the ordinary is just disingenuous.
 
I'm so freaking happy I don't live in the US, I've never been severly sick, so I can see myself as not buying insurance, but about 3 years ago, I broke my leg, and had to be 8 days in hospital! I hated it, trust me could I have been out there any earlier I would, my laptop had broken as a result of my fall so I only had my phone, it was torture. I've obviously recovered since then and found a nice job that pays me quite well, I can't imagine how things would have gone if I had been bankrupted by medical bills, because I did have some time between then where I didn't have any job, without some support structure I might as well have been homeless.

I actually followed what happened in the US and found it quite amazing the amount of whining there was from US citizens about helping their fellow citizens.

Madoc said:
And while I can't state with certainty that I'll never see the inside of an emergency room in the future, I can say that if I do it won't be by my choice.
Click to expand...

As opposed to all those who gets hurt just to see the inside of the emergency room...
 
What, can there ever be more than one definition to a word?

Merriam-Webster appears to think so. Apparently, you both have accurate definitions of socialism, via 2-b and 3.

so·cial·ism noun \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
: a way of organizing a society in which major industries are owned and controlled by the government rather than by individual people and companies

Full Definition of SOCIALISM

1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2
a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3
: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
Click to expand...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism
 
maverikv said:
So much right wing nonsense on these forums. I don't know why it surprises me every time.
Click to expand...

I don't care about which wing it is that's flapping. This place is just crazy cakes sometimes and it's better to laugh about it since most people get really loud and silly about politics, but would never do some of the things they talk about.
 
UrielDagda said:
As far as glitches and hiccups go, are people that frequent this forum really seeing this as something unique? I mean, how many times has this very site been non-accessible? I've played many an MMO with serious issues at times. In the big scheme of things, the ACA website has had issues on par with many a new website out there. It shouldn't be anything surprising to anybody that actually uses the internet on a regular basis. To be knowledgeable and to act like it's something out of the ordinary is just disingenuous.
Click to expand...


You bring a valid point, many new web sites and such have horrid issues unfortunately we are not talking about any normal web site. We are discussing the healthcare web site of the United States. Listed by most major security sites and financial institutions as the most unsecure items on the internet. They willfully and intentionally began open enrollment on a program that just plain is full of holes and is a hacker haven. So here is my thought, our old system worked but was full of fraud mostly medicare/medicaid fraud which drove the price through the roof.

Our government is in place to ensure that our banks and credit cards are protected, that our insurance industry is not loaded full of fraud that our borders are controlled. Instead we have a government that wants to take them over thus resulting in an all time high of personal information being stolen and huge waste of consumer tax dollars given to house and feed and insure illegal border crossers just for a democratic vote. As for you louses saying that Christians just want to bust the knees of the homeless, go look at the stats. The Christian community gives and provided more than double at home and internationally to those in need.

Obama is a terrorist who uses the Constitution as toilet paper, a lawless loser whose only plan is to dismantle the fabric that holds America together.
 
amddragonpc said:
Really? Regular maintenance? On the last day of the month? On a deadline?

Let's just say they picked the wrong day to do "regular maintenance".
Click to expand...

Good point.

I work at a telecom carrier and we don't do maintenance during times of expected higher usage such as Christmas, New Years, and other holidays.

Hell we even put a moratorium in place for sporting events like the Super Bowl or the Olympics.

Why risk it?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top