New EU rule will require all phones and electronics to use a standard charger

harmattan

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While This is convenient for everyone involved, I think, simply put, a government telling someone that they have to change their product to meet convenience requirements is pretty fucking stupid.

If it was a major problem, Apple would have changed it already, like they have with the iPads.
While convenience (and reduction of clutter and ewaste) is certainly one of the benefits of this ruling, it's not the entire impetus of it (albeit that's how it's being sold). The EU is trying to reign in Apple's anti-consumer behaviors, of which forcing users to purchase expensive proprietary devices that simply deliver power is a prime example.

I do agree, however, this could be a slippery slope. Having a rule that requires a single power delivery standard (arguably the simplest part of most electronics) is one thing; dictating standards for more complex componentry that may stifle innovation is another.
 

Juliya

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https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/07/tech/europe-uscb-requirement/index.html

Washington (CNN Business)Apple and other smartphone makers will be required to support USB-C as part of a single charging standard for mobile devices across the European Union by as early as the fall of 2024 under a new law announced Tuesday by EU officials.
The legislation is aimed at reducing e-waste and eliminating "cable clutter," said Margrethe Vestager, European Commission Vice President. Under the legislation, according to a release, "mobile phones, tablets, e-readers, earbuds, digital cameras, headphones and headsets, handheld videogame consoles and portable speakers that are rechargeable via a wired cable will have to be equipped with a USB Type-C port, regardless of their manufacture."


Will be interesting to see how far this goes. On the surface it makes sense but if you're already in the Apple-verse, you have no need for USB-C and thus no "cable clutter".
I don't understand what will change, because every gadget comes with a charger. Or am I wrong?
 

Darunion

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I don't understand what will change, because every gadget comes with a charger. Or am I wrong?
no, apple and samsung stopped including chargers, not sure who else may or may not have. So I believe the argument is if you have an apple product and say a samsung one then you have to buy two different chargers and depending which phone you get next, then one of those chargers ends up in a landfill and you have lots of cables in your house causing clutter. But if they used the same charger and cable, all would be better.
 

1_rick

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I don't live in EU, but I would be in favor of this in America.
You have to go all the way down to the Galaxy A01 to find a phone without USB-C (it's micro-B; the A11 has USB-C). or the $30 cheapass ones from other brands.

Edit: and switching the cheap phones to USB-C would probably raise the cost $5-10 or more, based on the video Gamers Nexus did a year or two back talking about USB-C ports in computer cases.
 

Axman

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The EU is trying to reign in Apple's anti-consumer behaviors, of which forcing users to purchase expensive proprietary devices that simply deliver power is a prime example.

Uh, no, one of their primary goals in this is forcing all users to purchase charging devices separately. The only thing is that they're not proprietary.

Who cares about that, now it gets to be outdated and too big.
 

Ebernanut

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Uh, no, one of their primary goals in this is forcing all users to purchase charging devices separately. The only thing is that they're not proprietary.

Who cares about that, now it gets to be outdated and too big.
The law allows manufacturers to bundle chargers with an item they just have to have an option to buy it without the charger as well.

It also might open up the market to more higher quality third party chargers if everyone isn't already getting one with every device they buy.
 

LukeTbk

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Uh, no, one of their primary goals in this is forcing all users to purchase charging devices separately. The only thing is that they're not proprietary.

Who cares about that, now it gets to be outdated and too big.
Almost all users already have (many) USB plug with power.
 

sharknice

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It is actually beneficial to the environment if you are just going to resuse your old one anyways. But that isn't why they do it.

The reason they don't include power adapters is because they want to make more money. They charge the same price as when they did include them, so their costs are lower and they make more money.
And even better, if you buy an "official" one separately you just paid them even more money, which many people will do because of the below.

The funny thing is that for new phones the biggest new feature they always tout is "ultra fast charging 10,000 watts, 22 nano seconds until 80% charged" which isn't possible unless you buy a brand new $50 charger, sold separately.
 

Wade88

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I like to buy new chargers when their power per cubic meter goes up, idk about y'alls opinions but the 100w and 230w, 330w tiny bricks are awesome.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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any examples of those devices..?

My Dell XPS 9510 my work issued me only seems to charge properly from its included charger.

Other chargers either issue warnings that they can not be verified to be adequate (but still charge the thing) or do not seem to charge the laptop at all.

I don't have a ton of USB-C chargers to test with though.
 

fist003

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My Dell XPS 9510 my work issued me only seems to charge properly from its included charger.

Other chargers either issue warnings that they can not be verified to be adequate (but still charge the thing) or do not seem to charge the laptop at all.

I don't have a ton of USB-C chargers to test with though.
thanks. i only had charging issue if using those no-brand cables. the only charging issue that i've seen is on the new Samsung A series phones where they couldnt get fast charging using third party chargers.
 

Axman

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I like to buy new chargers when their power per cubic meter goes up, idk about y'alls opinions but the 100w and 230w, 330w tiny bricks are awesome.

The brick that ships with the Steam Deck is pretty nifty, but the cable is only about 6 feet long. That's six lengths of an American's foot in Foreign.

It's shorter than any charger I've ever had, even in Gameboy times I think.
 

Wade88

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I haven't shopped for any longer than 10' type c cables, though I do have some 3 meter a to a extensions. I only do quick charging on short trips in cars and trucks and I like those cables to be 6" (android auto), 3' for front seats, and 6' for the back seats if the back outlet is used or 10' if it's emanating from center console innards instead of the back. I don't remember how long the gameboy cables were, it's been 20 years since I switched to pc and sold all my console shit to buy pc parts. I already have 45w type c chargers in the vehicles for the Deck, and several 100w multiport GaN chargers with 2 c and 2 a that could be used for it and are otherwise used by guests with macbooks like my sister in law and my nieces. Also got a lot of older 4 a and 1c ones running around, and some that are 5 a ports. Almost all of my charging is at 1.5a on my phones since type c came out regardless of how fast it's pd or whatever is, and a little bit less in the vehicles new enough to have come with android auto. It's sufficient to keep it from draining when navigating and streaming flac, and on long enough trips it charges while doing that too. https://www.spigen.com/collections/...3-0-car-charger-pc2000?variant=40166187040815
 
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rinaldo00

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There are mounting rumors Apple will move to USB-C for the iPhone, so in that sense the legislation has already succeeded.

With that said, the same concerns remain: the EU is effectively dictating tech standards. USB-C sounds great now; it might not sound great in 2032 if the spec is holding everyone back.
Time to bring back one of my favorite quotes
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
 

GoodBoy

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... but on the flipside legislation like this can stagnate innovation ...

USB-C is amazing, you guys are on crack or something... stifle innovation (lol)... more like make Apple throw a Tantrum.. lol, I would pay to see that.

Work laptop is fully connected (port replicator) but also gets 130W of power thru its USB-C connection. 1 single cable, 130W of power, video passthru, and the port replicator contains (usb based) network, sound, multiple usb3 ports. It's pretty sweet and convenient.

It's the USB we have been waiting for.

It's more than fast enough for data transfer for phones, tablets, and plenty of power. If they can pass this, then if or when something actually better comes along, then surely they can pass another ruling to update it.

It's a good idea because many companies are too greedy to use anything that is 'standard' , be it a battery, a charger, the connectors. It used to be an insane myriad of shit for the chargers for old cell phones, ipods, cameras. Proprietary when there was 0 reason to be so other than my previously stated reasons. You can't trust companies to do the right thing, so more power to the EU for trying this.
 
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Lakados

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The law allows manufacturers to bundle chargers with an item they just have to have an option to buy it without the charger as well.

It also might open up the market to more higher quality third party chargers if everyone isn't already getting one with every device they buy.
Manufacturers aren’t going to do up multiple box options unless there is strong financial incentive to do so. They will take the cheapest path of least resistance which means USB-C and no charging cables or bricks. Stores will instead then stock up on multiple charging blocks and cables of varying lengths, colours, and quality. It’s then on the sales guys there to push the accessories and not the cellphone manufacturer who just cut their costs and increased their margins by that much more. Because you know they won’t pass any savings from the smaller boxes or lack of charging equipment onwards.
 

Juliya

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no, apple and samsung stopped including chargers, not sure who else may or may not have. So I believe the argument is if you have an apple product and say a samsung one then you have to buy two different chargers and depending which phone you get next, then one of those chargers ends up in a landfill and you have lots of cables in your house causing clutter. But if they used the same charger and cable, all would be better.
Then this solution really makes sense. The main thing is that the new rule should not interfere with the development of technology.
 

Mystique

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I like how some people can be against this.

Just blows my mind; it's like you need to unleash some inner problem with authority out on everything.

How about we stop filling South America and Asia with useless trash like 5 types of cellphone charging cables, and stop giving companies money for creating that trash needlessly.

That's what this is about. Not 5G radiowaves in your homes, kay? The rest is details that don't matter to you. All types of cables would work with your precious phone if that's the one that they designed it to work with.

It's actually embarassing that the apple users accept that for some reason they already aren't using what should be a standard cable. It's like buying Pepsi in a container that doesn't even want to pretend to be recyclable.
 
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emphy

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There are mounting rumors Apple will move to USB-C for the iPhone, so in that sense the legislation has already succeeded.

With that said, the same concerns remain: the EU is effectively dictating tech standards. USB-C sounds great now; it might not sound great in 2032 if the spec is holding everyone back.
While it certainly gives "good feels" to bash eu bureaucrats, they're not actually so idiotic as to not take the need for an updated standard into account in their legislation.
 

Aurelius

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While it certainly gives "good feels" to bash eu bureaucrats, they're not actually so idiotic as to not take the need for an updated standard into account in their legislation.
Oh, I don't think they're that naive... but it might take more effort than usual to move the industry to another spec.
 

Darunion

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So I was having trouble finding the actual regulation (also didnt spend too much time) but I am wondering if companies can just toss in a small adapter to comply with this.

So my apple wireless chargers all came with usb-c cables so actually had to buy new chargers to accommodate apple because my wife an I's samsungs came with usb-a connectors which worked with all my multiport chargers. Still not finding a whole lot in the way of multiport C chargers (at least from companies i trust).
 

1_rick

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Still not finding a whole lot in the way of multiport C chargers (at least from companies i trust).
Chargers with more than one C port seem relatively rare. 1 or 2 A ports and a C are much more common, but you can find mutl-C chargers.

Anker's got a dual-C charger where both ports 20W. I see a UGREEN multiport charger on Amazon for $55 (not an endorsement, I just searched for "multiport USB C chargers"). It's 65W total, 3 USB-C ports and an A. Two devices will do 45 and 18--although the third C port will only ever do 18W. The thing's got a big image showing you every combination available. They've also got a 100W version. Check out this tome (and note, again, the third port won't do more than 22.5W even if it's the only thing plugged in):

1654783171322.png
 

Darunion

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Chargers with more than one C port seem relatively rare. 1 or 2 A ports and a C are much more common, but you can find mutl-C chargers.

Anker's got a dual-C charger where both ports 20W. I see a UGREEN multiport charger on Amazon for $55 (not an endorsement, I just searched for "multiport USB C chargers"). It's 65W total, 3 USB-C ports and an A. Two devices will do 45 and 18--although the third C port will only ever do 18W. The thing's got a big image showing you every combination available. They've also got a 100W version. Check out this tome (and note, again, the third port won't do more than 22.5W even if it's the only thing plugged in):
Thanks, yea i was really sad not finding an equivalent to my 10 port usb-a chargers but i suppose at the wattage requirements per port for C it does make sense, i do like that one though thanks
 

Zarathustra[H]

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USB-C is amazing, you guys are on crack or something... stifle innovation (lol)... more like make Apple throw a Tantrum.. lol, I would pay to see that.

USB-C is awesome, but no one tech is going to be awesome, the best, or even serviceable forever.

When a government legislates that "you must use X" it prevents companies from making their own improvements. That is what is meant by stifling innovation.

There have been plenty of other innovations in power connectors over the years, some of which have been great, but are not part of USB-C. As much as I am not an Apple fan, their magnetic charge points were freaking brilliant. No more tripping over the charging cable and sending the device flying across the room. Some of the round style Dell chargers were pretty cool too, in that they had an LED illuminated tip, so you could find them in the dark, or under a desk. USB-C - while awesome - also has some wearout problems. After a couple of years of plugging and unplugging them you can wind up with loose charging cables.

So, USB-C is great, but it is not the "end all" of power charging. No one tech is. I agree, that if everyone moved to USB-C right now, it would overall be a huge improvement, but then what? Once this transition is complete, then we are stuck at the same level forever, unless there is an act of congress / Parliament.
 

Jagger100

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They tried to fix this before. The makers responded by putting in electronics so if their product is not detected, charging is throttled. They should segregate charging from data. Charging could be standardized for decades and decades. The rest no so much. they need a plug that can be expanded and have old plugs still plug.
also a magnetic clasp system would help with a lot of wear and accidential damage. The magnet connector on the Microsoft surfaces, gen1, were the only good thing there.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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They tried to fix this before. The makers responded by putting in electronics so if their product is not detected, charging is throttled. They should segregate charging from data. Charging could be standardized for decades and decades. The rest no so much. they need a plug that can be expanded and have old plugs still plug.
also a magnetic clasp system would help with a lot of wear and accidential damage. The magnet connector on the Microsoft surfaces, gen1, were the only good thing there.

Good points.

Also, I am not familliar enough with the USB-C standards, but we should make sure that the different charging modes are standardized. You know, voltage and current combinations. Not every device and charger will meet every voltage and current combinations, but if a charger and a device both meet one, it should be a requirement that it work, so a device can't lock out advanced charging modes on anything but its own (probably expensive) charger.
 

Ididar

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I imagine the idea is also in part by the time that it would be any issue for a mobile device (USB-C), wireless will have took over for that type of mobile device like it is already the case for 99.99%, I imagine a giant amount of people never use a cable for their phone, outside charging when they are out of their nightly contact charger routine.
I think your "99.99%" is very optimistic. I see people charging with cables all the time. My brother's whole family only charges with cables. They don't have a single wireless charger in the house despite having four phones with wireless charging capability.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I imagine the idea is also in part by the time that it would be any issue for a mobile device (USB-C), wireless will have took over for that type of mobile device like it is already the case for 99.99%, I imagine a giant amount of people never use a cable for their phone, outside charging when they are out of their nightly contact charger routine.

I think your "99.99%" is very optimistic. I see people charging with cables all the time. My brother's whole family only charges with cables. They don't have a single wireless charger in the house despite having four phones with wireless charging capability.

Agreed,

I don't use wireless charging. Period. I am not open to using it at all, ever.

I tried it when it was new, and I found it underwhelming, inefficient, and unreliable. If a device slid a little or fell off the charging pad, it just didn't get charged.

It's also fundamentally inefficient. There is a lot of power loss in inductive charging. With our power grid as limited as it is, and the demand on power ever increasing, we should not be focusing on inefficient technologies. Sure, these are only small, low voltage, low power devices, but there's more than a BILLION of them in this country alone. Shit adds up.

For me it's wired charging and wired charging only, and as long as this option doesn't disappear completely, I'll be wired charging until the day I die. If a device doesn't come with a wired charging port, I just won't buy that device. I'll buy the competition. It's totally conceivable that wired charging ports will some day go the way of the microSD card slot on phones, and if that day comes I'll be forced to adapt, but as long as it is an option, I'll be shunning wireless charging and using a cable.

I feel the same way about just about everything else that is wireless.
  • Mouse and Keyboard? Wired only (Except for a Bluetooth Microsoft Arc mouse I use with my laptop on occasion) Wireless tech results in needing a battery that could die at the very worst moment. There is potential for interference, resulting in disconnection, or latency or other reliability problems. I just don't want to deal with that shit. The potential issues of wireless far outweigh the minor inconveniences of a cable.
  • Headphones/Audio? Wired only. Bluetooth is crap. Compressed poor quality audio. Also, all of the same reliability and battery issues of the above.
  • WiFi? Sure, I use it for mobile devices and laptops, but anything that stays stationary absolutely must be wired, no exceptions. WiFi is half duplex and never hits the full advertised transfer speeds. In fact it usually only hits pennies on the dollar compared to the numbers on the box of that fancy router you bought. Wireless has reliability issues (congestion, cordless phones, microwaves, thick walls, you name it). Not to mention the security implications of broadcasting your WiFi access point to the entire neighborhood.
  • Mobile (4g, LTE, 5G etc.) Broadband? Again, great for temporary light use while on the move, but heavy lifting should absolutely always be done over land lines.
The thing is, anything and everything wireless is less reliable, higher latency, lower performance, lower quality, less secure, and usually relies on a battery that may or may not be charged at the worst possible moment. That, and you are adding expense and more e-waste for no reason.

I get it. The people who like Apple-styled "sleek" things think wireless is cool, and wired is uncool. But something being "cool" is the absolutely worst reason to ever do it.

Whenever there is a choice between wireless and wired technologies, always always always choose the wired. It doesn't matter was it is. Only go wireless when it is absolutely necessary.

Don't tell me you've never been in your car, trying to connect your fancy bluetooth device for playback, and it tries, says connected, and then says not connected and just refuses to work. WTF? Plug in a 3.5mm audio line in jack, and it just works, and does so reliably.

There is an age old rule when it comes to engineering. KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. The simpler the design, the better it is. The more complication and bullshit you add to it, the more reliability of the design will suffer, and the worse it will be.

And this is not talking about the user interface. It's talking about the design. Bluetooth has authentication protocols, encryption, negotiation protocols, digital audio compression, digital audio decompression, etc. etc. etc. Complicated. A 3.5mm jack is simple.

There are applications in which wireless technologies are necessary. A mobile phone wouldn't be very useful if it had to be tethered to a cable when on the go. In these cases use wireless tech. For everything that absolutely does not need to be wireless in order for it to function as designed, wired solutions should always be used.

Examples of things that don't absolutely need to be wireless:
- Audio integration with your phone in the car.
- Network connectivity on a stationary computer or device, like a Desktop or Console. If it sits still, wire it.
- Headphones on a mobile device. If your device is in your pocket, there is absolutely no reason you can't have a wire running to your head.
- Charging. Inductive charging is extremely short range anyway, so why not just plug it in? It's not like wireless charging allows you to charge while out walking around.

I'm always for technological advancement, but in most applications wireless technologies are a step backwards, not a step forwards, driven mainly by some stupid "eww, ugly wires" response.

The wireless option should always be the last resort.

/rant
 
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1_rick

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Thanks, yea i was really sad not finding an equivalent to my 10 port usb-a chargers but i suppose at the wattage requirements per port for C it does make sense, i do like that one though thanks
Oddly enough, I just started watching an LTT video and the sponsor was UGREEN and that very 65W 3-port charger.
 

LukeTbk

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I think your "99.99%" is very optimistic. I see people charging with cables all the time. My brother's whole family only charges with cables. They don't have a single wireless charger in the house despite having four phones with wireless charging capability.
Outside charging, then ? Must be getting close to all wireless (by 2024...). Maybe one day too much current go through an USB-C sized cable for them to be relevant.
 
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Zarathustra[H]

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Outside charging, then ? Maybe one day too much current go through an USB-C sized cable for them to be relevant.

Possibly.

I mean USB-C obviously can't handle everything in the world.

With Rev 2.1 max power over USB-C is now 48v, 5a, so 240w.

That seems like plenty for mobile devices, even laptops.

Remember, in everything (except maybe GPU's judging by the leaks from next gen GPU's) power use is going down not up. The overall industry goal is to drive up perf/watt, and reduce the total number of watts used.

You are probably never going to use USB-C to charge your Tesla.
 

sharknice

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Possibly.

I mean USB-C obviously can't handle everything in the world.

With Rev 2.1 max power over USB-C is now 48v, 5a, so 240w.

That seems like plenty for mobile devices, even laptops.

Remember, in everything (except maybe GPU's judging by the leaks from next gen GPU's) power use is going down not up. The overall industry goal is to drive up perf/watt, and reduce the total number of watts used.

You are probably never going to use USB-C to charge your Tesla.

Power usage will go up as new tech emerges. A "phone" isn't really a phone anymore, it's much more, and will continue to be much more. People browse and create social media all day on their phones, game on them, etc. Soon they'll be used even more for augmented reality. More AI processing will be happeing on the phone to identify everything you see, etc. Also a lot ot other tech is already developed and just waiting for more power to be viable, and more tech will be developed as the hardware becomes more capable.

For example imagine revolutionary battery tech where your phone takes on the role as a mobile power source. Your electric vehicle uses your phone as the battery. Remember how 50 years ago computers used to take up entire buildings?
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Power usage will go up as new tech emerges. A "phone" isn't really a phone anymore, it's much more, and will continue to be much more. People browse and create social media all day on their phones, game on them, etc. Soon they'll be used even more for augmented reality. More AI processing will be happeing on the phone to identify everything you see, etc. Also a lot ot other tech is already developed and just waiting for more power to be viable, and more tech will be developed as the hardware becomes more capable.

For example imagine revolutionary battery tech where your phone takes on the role as a mobile power source. Your electric vehicle uses your phone as the battery. Remember how 50 years ago computers used to take up entire buildings?

Well yeah, 50 years from now, all bets are off.

I also certainly hope we will no longer be holding the product development teams of 2072 to the same USB-C standard requirement as we are today.

Convincing regulators that an update is in order may delay us in getting to the next big thing though, and that where the whole "stifles innovation" concern comes into play.
 

N4CR

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Good, the amount of times not having 'insert correct apple/USB variant' here has caused issues before, makes this welcome.
 

ElementDave

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A "phone" isn't really a phone anymore, it's much more, and will continue to be much more. People browse and create social media all day on their phones, game on them, etc.
Right, and one can't help but wonder how that might be effecting "innovation", among other things. Removing the phones instead of the cables would make for an interesting social experiment.;) The resulting chaos could secure a permanent place in the Top 10 charts on Netflix, displacing the other apocalyptic zombie movies and television series competing for the spot.

Back on topic, I believe the following USB cable law still applies:
usb_cables.png
 

DukenukemX

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EU doing EU stuff again. Not sure how this improves what they say. Either there is ewaste or cable clutter, not both.

This will get in the way with the next standard or an improved usb-c later on. IMO this does more harm than good.
It's a wire. How can we improve a wire? For the past 20 years we're making changes to wires just to keep you buying new wires. USB-C should be the last wire we'll ever need. USB type A hasn't changed in over 20 years and nobody complained.

USB-types-2x-1024x334.png
 
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The funny bit is that USB as a body has managed to make Apple look positively pro-consumer and anti e-waste.

Nevermind that USBc is a pretty decent downgrade compared to lightning when we compare the actual connector. Too bad Apple pulled an Apple and just stopped developing lightning once they had their initial design done.

I think this case probably comes down to a win for consumers but only because Apple is perpetually enamored with their next big shiny. We're still waiting for those absurdly powerful iPads to start to work more like a grown up computer, the hardware is ready, but Apple is Apple.
 

sfsuphysics

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I gotta say that I chuckled a bit about the claim to reduce ewaste for the charging cord of devices that often are replaced every 2 maybe 3 years because companies have made replacing things like batteries prohibitively difficult
 
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