New Eizo EV - Series - PWM-free (partially)

In a dark environment most users will use something between 80 and 120 cd, going up higher only if more lights are turned on in the room.
The real question is, can this Eizo monitor get PWM free at a brightness of 80 cd? If 20 % means for something like 200 cd then is totally worthless for home usage. Oh, and lets not forget the contrast that is able to deliver at desired brightness usage.

According to prad review, it seems that it gets 800+ contrast at 20% brightness, and just a tiny bit under 100 cd. Not bad at all.
 
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I've tried two EV2436WFS monitors now and both were more or less equivalent in backlight uniformity, which is to say fairly even, but I sent them both back. I've since tried an HP zr2440w, and previously a Dell U2713HM and a Dell U2412M. My overriding experience with IPS monitors is that the "glow", a separate issue from backlight uniformity, is an unavoidable (and unacceptable, to me) characteristic of every IPS monitor on the market. Therefore, I have officially given up on the technology, and I don't understand how so many people can believe IPS panels to be so superior.

Every single one of the IPS monitors I've tried has suffered from blindingly obvious glow, primarily originating in the lower right corner of the screen, where it makes black appear more or less white, and then gradually fades to darker shades of gray as it approaches the center of the screen. The net result is horribly washed out blacks across the entire lower right quadrant of the screen (regardless of whether the monitor is displaying a bright or dark scene), but the other three corners are affected by a modicum of glow as well, the lower and upper left appearing to be a more purple-ish color, and the upper right being a darker gray, but none as severe or distracting as the lower right. Coming from a Dell 2407WFP with MVA panel I used for years, I decided to try getting accustomed to the IPS glow, since I had finally tired of the gamma shift characteristic of VA panels. But I just can't do it. Maybe it's just how close I sit to my screen (about 1.5 ft), because if I scoot back the glow issue lessens greatly, and eventually disappears at about 3 ft way or so, but I can't imagine most people are sitting so far away from their screens. Also, it's not an issue of brightness. I ran every screen I tried from 20-30% brightness. The glow is less noticeable at 20-30% brightness than at higher levels, but not enough to keep it from being distracting.

Beyond the glow problem I've experienced with every IPS monitor I've tested, I find the black/contrast level of IPS screens to be very poor in general, resulting in varying levels of shadow detail loss. I've noticed that with more ambient room lighting, perceived black levels improve dramatically, and the glow becomes much less noticeable, but I prefer to keep ambient light at a lower, more comfortable level. I have a 25w bulb in a floor standing lamp off to the side of my desk that puts out ~200 lumens, and a 3-bulb xenon under-cabinet style light the rests level pointing upwards behind my monitor that probably puts out 400-500 lumens illuminating the wall behind my desk, so the room is by no means dark.

I just don't understand why no one else seems to experience this problem with IPS glow that I do. What am I doing wrong?

In the meantime, I've decided to try a TN panel, specifically the Dell S2409W, which I found on eBay and is scheduled for delivery later today. I wanted to try a BenQ G2420HD, and found one on eBay in the UK, but the seller was unwilling to ship to the US. I can't find any G2420HD's on the market stateside. Yes, the color shift characteristic of TN panels is annoying, but compared to the gamma shift of VA, and the poor contrast and atrocious glow of IPS, I find the TN color shift to be by far the lesser of evils. I selected the Dell S2409W and BenQ G2420HD as possible candidates because they are both well regarded by the community, and most importantly, CCFL backlit. I'd gladly try the newer LED TN monitors, but unfortunately I am one of the unlucky people sensitive to PWM flicker :(

Is there anyone else out there who has had the same experience with IPS tech as I have? Anyone have any recommendations if the Dell S2409W doesn't pan out?
 
I think people just deal with the glow to be honest. Kind of a downer for me too because I have yet to find a suitable replacement monitor for my Asus VH226H(TN).

The Dell U2312H I have is pretty good except for the glow coming from the bottom left corner. It's very apparent and distracting even in normal use in a well lit room. And I don't even keep the brightness up that high.

I'm debating whether to try and exchange it in the hopes of getting one with a lesser "bleed" or going with a refurbed Eizo FS2332 purchased directly from them.

I did put the VH226H next to the Dell for comparison and there's no doubt the Dell gave a much better picture, but the downsides, ugh. Why can't we just develop decent tech? I feel like this is a something that could be solved, but just isn't. Like they don't care enough.
 
Surlias said:
Is there anyone else out there who has had the same experience with IPS tech as I have? Anyone have any recommendations if the Dell S2409W doesn't pan out?
Click to expand...

I think your basic issue is that you sit closer than most to their monitor, especially for those with larger panels (24-27) -- it's better to sit further back, than way up close. I sit about 30" away from my 24"er.

And yeah, I noticed glow back when I had my 2412 briefly, although I was so distracted by the AG coating that I never got around to figuring out if glow bothered me a lot or not. But... it certainly does make black levels look less than black, even more so than it normally would with an IPS panel.

As for alternatives... look for older tech? You probably would have to go used, but you could pick up a NEC 2490 (IPS + A-TW) or one of the bigger S-PVAs (Nec 2470/Samsung 244, etc). Eizo was selling a 24" S-PVA refurb for like $200 + shipping the other day, but I see someone grabbed it up. Anyway, you can keep an eye out for something like that, if you are okay with S-PVA limitations.
 
Well, the Dell S2409W was a bust. Beyond having a faulty DVI port, the vertical shift is crushing shadow detail, something that wasn't an issue on a smaller 20" TN panel I evaluated. Also, it has kinda crummy backlight uniformity.

Namelessme said:
Anyway, you can keep an eye out for something like that, if you are okay with S-PVA limitations.
Click to expand...

I like VA black level and uniformity, but the main reason I started shopping IPS and now TN panels was that I got fed up with the off axis gamma shift in VA panels, which causes shadow detail crush in your direct line of sight.

Someone said that the aggressive AG coating on some IPS panels has a detrimental effect on contrast ratio and perceived black level. Does anyone know of any glossy, semi-gloss, or or at least light AG 24" IPS monitors with PWM-free backlight?
 
Surlias said:
I like VA black level and uniformity, but the main reason I started shopping IPS and now TN panels was that I got fed up with the off axis gamma shift in VA panels, which causes shadow detail crush in your direct line of sight.

Someone said that the aggressive AG coating on some IPS panels has a detrimental effect on contrast ratio and perceived black level. Does anyone know of any glossy, semi-gloss, or or at least light AG 24" IPS monitors with PWM-free backlight?
Click to expand...

I think sitting too close to VAs results in viewing cone issues, hence the gamma shift problems. Black crush seems to vary a bit on the specific panel, as some mention it, others don't. It was never a big problem for me.

At 24", maybe the Samsung 850 is PWM free, but am not sure if it was the 24" model or 27". It also has some bleed problems, which I am sure won't help black levels much. There is the Eizo 2336 with a light coating, and it's PWM free (20% brightness and higher), but it's 23". And the Dell 2413, but it's wide gamut and rather expensive -- same 20% and higher thing too. All will have IPS glow.

I want to add that if you are unhappy with glow, contrast and black levels of the IPS monitors you've tried, I'm not so sure if the coating will really make a giant difference there. Perceived black levels may be a bit better with semiglossy, but I am not so sure they'll be that great really. The coating makes a bigger difference with whites, than blacks, in my opinion -- whites won't be as sparkly or grainy.
 
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Namelessme said:
I think sitting too close to VAs results in viewing cone issues, hence the gamma shift problems.
Click to expand...

So you're saying there's a chance if I sat further away from a VA panel, the crushed shadow detail in the center of the screen (when my head/perspective is focused on the center of the screen, that is) would be less severe? I just rearranged my desk in a way that would allow me to sit up to about 32" from my monitor. However, at that distance I might want to consider a screen larger than 24". Certainly something larger than the 20" HP S2031 TN panel I'm using at the moment until I find a worthy successor to my old Dell 2407WFP :rolleyes:

I believe there are some new VA panels on the market with PWM-free backlighting. If what you say is true, maybe I'll have to revisit the option. Are there any you might recommend?

As a frame of reference, here is a shot of my new desktop arrangement. I don't have any real reason to post a pic, but I'm really happy with the new setup, so I guess I just want to show it off a bit :)

IMG_1040_zps64620539.jpg


This is how it was set up before. The shelf blocked the arm from being able to go as far back as necessary to push the monitor very far back and still keep it centered:

IMG_1023_zps5737cd2c.jpg


I recently saw a new LG with IPS panel that looks pretty interesting, has anyone had any experience with it? It's the LG EA63 27EA63V. Looks like it could be interesting. Users are reporting really good contrast and black levels. Perhaps they are using dynamic contrast, though, which I always disable.
 
Surlias said:
So you're saying there's a chance if I sat further away from a VA panel, the crushed shadow detail in the center of the screen (when my head/perspective is focused on the center of the screen, that is) would be less severe? I just rearranged my desk in a way that would allow me to sit up to about 32" from my monitor. However, at that distance I might want to consider a screen larger than 24". Certainly something larger than the 20" HP S2031 TN panel I'm using at the moment until I find a worthy successor to my old Dell 2407WFP :rolleyes:

I believe there are some new VA panels on the market with PWM-free backlighting. If what you say is true, maybe I'll have to revisit the option. Are there any you might recommend?
Click to expand...

The only VA with PWM free backlighting that I know of is the BenQ 2760HS, but it may not be released in N. America. I'm not entirely sure where it has even been released.

As for black crush, I don't know if distance matters. It may depend on the panel and calibration settings more. I never really noticed it on S-PVA and PVA monitors I've used, or at least not to the level where it altered the image or bothered me. Color shift, however, could differ based on distance, due to VA viewing cones. That may matter more with AMVA panels more than older S-PVA -- guessing the old split vs single pixel structure comes into play there.

I can't tell by pictures exactly, but it does look like you are a decent distance from your monitor. Unless you have a really small desk or something -- it's not like you are super, super close to it.

Some 27" IPS 1080ps have been reported to have higher than avg contrast, when compared to most IPS models (1200-1400:1). But at the same time, I know NCX mentioned black levels didn't look as dark due to the way the glass + dark bezel sort of made the blacks look worse than they really are. It may be one of those things you'll just have to try yourself, and see if it's acceptable or not to you.
 
Hardware calibrating your screen will help reduce the color tints of the glow, reducing it pretty much to white.

I believe that you notice IPS glow so much is that you have to tilt the monitor back-forward to such an angle that the glow will pretty much disappear.
The reason people don't get that so annoyed at IPS Glow is that it doesn't affect the quality of the color, it just adds white on the screen. As the other 2 alternatives TN and PVA are just not nearly there, especially TN is totally off axis colors wise, people accepted the IPS glow as being the best compromise, instead of sticking with TN/PVA.

Do you want to know who is responsible for such an "awesome" technology? Is us, everyone, for accepting the deal of getting a thin monitor, and sacrificing almost every quality that was on the market at that time, and for what? Just for having the latest tech regardless of how good it is? ....Pathetic..

PWM flickering is affecting your ability to look at the screen over long time. But things like coating, will improve the way you are able to perceive the details, helping readability, contrast, white color quality.

All those details combined will improve your experience, together with not washed out colors that you can find on TN panels.

IPS Glow is not present in screens that have A-TW polarizer, HP LP2480zx seems to use a A-TW polarizer. But I don't think you want to know the price...

Honestly, I am not sure why you bother so much about ips glow since the color change of a TN panel is sooo much more annoying and image quality degrading, and instantly appearing, regardless of what other colors are out there.
But seriously, TN panels?...
 
Maybe someone here can help me.

Since yesterday I have the EV2436, which is my first IPS (except for my laptops 12" display) and something puzzles me. According to my Spyder3, brightness/contrast out of the box is:
  • 0.45 cd/m^2 black level
  • 331.99 cd/m^2 white level
  • 733:1 contrast ratio
After calibration to 6500K, contrast ratio falls to 603:1. If I choose 5000K it drops further to about 500:1. Does anyone have an idea what I may be doing wrong? Eizo specs it at 1000:1, and most reviews surpass this.

I have it connected via VGA, but I don't believe this should affect contrast. Last night I did notice quite bright corners, maybe ips glow or bleed, perhaps that could be the cause? I'll post photos tonight.


@HU : Just curious, why do you run Saturation -3 ?
 
Evening all,

I took some photos of the screen, first centered on the display, then
moved the camera clockwise, facing perpendicular on each corner,
to capture any shift in glow which might occur.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable will chime in and help identify
what's ips-glow and what's backlight-bleed.

As this is my first IPS display I'd appreciate your opinion of the quality
of the panel. For instance, is ips-glow commonly this pronounced?
And is it normal that contrast-ratio falls well below that advertised by
the manufacturer?



Photos were taken from a distance of 3 feet / 91 cm.
ISO 800, f/5.6, 1/25.

1: Center
IMG_8586.jpg


2: Top-right
IMG_8589.jpg


3: Bottom-right
IMG_8590.jpg


4: Bottom-left
IMG_8591.jpg


5: Top-left
IMG_8592.jpg
 
What about the Eizo 2336W, does it have heavy coating like the 24"? I wanna buy and test one of these so called semi-gloss monitors to see if it can replace my Dell ST2220T glossy monitor.

EDIT: Nvm, saw Namelessme says it has light coating. But is it semi-gloss like Eizo Foris FS2333?
 
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Hello

I just received a new EV2436 gray bezel (manufactured in January 2013, usage time: 0 hours) from ALB Computers in Germany. I am in the USA.

I am comparing it with my Eizo L685 (manufactured in November 2001, usage time: 23073 hours).

As other people posted here, the EV2436 passes my finger shake test for PWM flicker at above brightness 18.


I am still thinking whether I will return the EV2436 or not. Any suggestion is welcome.

(1) On the 8th screen of eizo-test.exe, the EV2436 flickers far more than my L685. I do not why. I do not know what kind of flicker this is: it does not seem to be caused by PWM.

(2) With my bare eyes, I feel that the EV2436 has far worse brightness uniformity than my L685.



P.S.: I do not have any sophisticated tool to measure brightness uniformity or flicker.

P.S.: The EV2436 has no defective pixel. My Eizo L685 has one defective red pixel.

P.S.: On the 6th screen of eizo-test.exe (completely blue screen), I feel flicker on both the EV2436 and the L685. When I stare at lower right corner, the other part of the screen flickers. When I stare at upper right corner of the screen, the other part of the screen flickers. . . . . . I do not know what kind of flicker this is.



Below are pictures of the EV2436 and the L685.

EV 2436: factory setting, RGB, brightness -> 55.

L685: factory setting, contrast 100% (this corresponds to contrast 50 on EV2436), brightness 60%

There are two red dots from camera defect.

IMG_1848.JPG

IMG_1849.JPG

IMG_1944.JPG

IMG_1946.JPG

IMG_1945.JPG
 
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I'm not sure if there are any gradients on the screen when you see flicker, but I guess it's technically possible you are seeing FRC flicker? I believe the 2436 is 6 bit + 2 bit FRC... no idea what your older monitor uses. I didn't think most people could actually see FRC flicker though.

I'm also not sure if the 2436 has any special uniformity features or not. I know the more expensive Eizos do, but don't recall if that one has it.
 
My Eizo L685 does not have DUE either. iMacs do not have it either, I guess. Anyway, their screen show better brightness and color uniformity than the EV2436 I received.

I tried to adjust my eyes to the poor uniformity of EV2436 for a few hours, but I still do not feel comfortable when I work on spreadsheet. There are dark green patches and bright pink patches.


FRC flicker is new to me. The 8th screen in the Eizo monitor test program is one of the 3 moire test patterns.
 
Hello,

You said PWN free is only above 20 of brightness. But is it really needed to use < 20 to work of documents, internet etc. ? And in this case, is flickering really annoying ?

Thanks for your answers.
 
Piero,

I am one of those who do not like overly bright screen. I could keep the brightness at above 20 using the Paper Mode. The Paper Mode reduces the contrast and lowers the color temperature (the screen becomes more yellowish) so that it feels less bright than other modes at the same brightness (backlight) setting.

I could set the brightness to 25 and even turn on the automatic brightness adjustment feature. In the evening, the EV2436 passed my finger shake test for PWM flicker. When I turn the lighting off, then the screen becomes darker and it does not pass my finger shake test.

It depends on your office environment and your personal preference, but my guess is that you can work on documents at the Paper Mode without PWM.
 
I just sent my EV2436 back to Germany. I could not stand the poor screen uniformity.

I think Eizo should sell a monitor at the quality level between EV2436 and CX240, replacing the old CCFL PWM SX2462W.

CX240 is too expensive and it has a permanently operating cooling fan that makes annoying sound, according to an online review.
 
Piero said:
Hello,

You said PWN free is only above 20 of brightness. But is it really needed to use < 20 to work of documents, internet etc. ? And in this case, is flickering really annoying ?

Thanks for your answers.
Click to expand...
First of all, Eizo models dim all the way to 0 cdm2. So 20% is lower than on regular monitors who usually dim down to about 30-100 cdm2 depending on model.
Secondly you can always reduce brightness further, without affecting PWM, by reducing 'contrast' setting on monitor. This will hamper dynamic range and contrast ratio, but that doesent matter at all for text work IMO. Only bother is that one might want to switch to neutral contrast when playing games, watch movies etc. But I guess Eizo would have configurable modes for this for easy switching back and forth.
 
highexpectation said:
There are product by product variation, but, in the case of the unit tested by prad, the brightness was close to 100 cd/m^2 at the 20% brightness setting (http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2012/review-eizo-ev2436wfs-bk-part7.html). Do NOT expect 300 cd/m^2 X 0.2 = 60 cd/m^2.

100 cd/m^2 can be too bright for text applications in some office environment. That is why Piero posted the question.
Click to expand...
Good point. The curve wasnt quite linear there. For comparison the U2412M (PWM) and U2713HM (PWM-free) they are also about 100 cdm2 at 20%. So Eizo is not less bright by Dell standards, anyhow.
EV2336W is rated lower though at 250. It might go down to 80-ish at 20% perhaps.
 
I would appreciate if you post your experience with the uniformity of EV2436. Below is my experience.

I received another EV2436 from another retailer. This time, it has black bezel and it is from a retailer in the USA (TheNerds.net). The unit was manufactured in February 2013.

I am glad that this one does not have a defective pixel either.

Unfortunately, the brightness/color/black uniformity is not much better than the previous one. I am wondering how PRAD could say that they could not detect brightness/color non-uniformity with bare eyes. Did they receive a unit specially selected by the manufacturer?

The black uniformity is good from a distance more than 1 meter. In my practical usage, however, the distance is 0.7 meter. At this distance the corners shine.

It is hard to convey the poor color uniformity (especially at Paper mode) to this web forum. My camera is not good enough.

The brightness uniformity is poorer than my 10 year old Eizo L685 by immediate subjective feel.

To convey the poor brightness uniformity to this web forum, I developed a method.

On the 20th screen in eizo-test.exe, I set the background to 255 (max) and the center square to 201. Then with the program Paint in Windows 7, I cut small squares from the center and pasted it to the edges and corners. Then I printed that picture with a black and white printer and saw that the cut piece from the center was approximately the same brightness as the upper right corner. I assume that my camera has uniform response. There is also gamma curve issue, but I just calculate things assuming "linearity."

The estimated brightness deviation by this method is 255/201 = 1.269, that is 27 %.


IMG_2048.JPG


IMG_2049%2520-%2520Copy.JPG




Also notice the brightness variation within the center square in the picture above. This is very noticeable with bare eyes too, and it is also noticeable with naked eyes when displaying full white. With the usual 9 point measurement, it will not come out, but I can feel the problem with bare eyes.

It is hard to see the severity on the picture, but there is a shiny spot (a little lower left from the exact center) that my bare eyes are feeling. When my eyes sweep on Word document, Excel spreadsheet, LaTex document, etc. my eyes feel tired due to the shiny spot around the center.

Furthermore, I feel some kind of flicker at above 20 brightness setting. I felt this in the previous one which I already returned.

I think I need to return this (the second EV2436) too. In 2002, I just purchased Eizo L685 from Amazon and I did not need to return it. The first one was usable, and I have been using it for over 10 years.. I wonder why Eizo's quality control fell down even though LCD technology has significantly improved over the 10 years.
 
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According to TFT central http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2413.htm,

Dell U2413 also uses hybrid brightness adjustment. No PWM down to 20% setting. Below 20%, the PWM frequency is about 8kHz, much higher than 0.2kHz in Eizo EV2436.

The US retail prices of Dell U2413 and Eizo EV2436 are similar, but Dell receives 8bit panel from LG and Eizo receives 6bit panel from LG.

Dell U2413 has uniformity compensation, but the brightness is locked at 50% when this feature is used. A deal breaker for me.
 
I need to correct my estimete of 26% brightness variation.

According to LM240WU8-WLA3 datasheet ver. 1.2 page 24/32,

191 and 255 correspond to 53.0% and 100% relative luminance, respectively.

Thus 201/255 means brightness uniformity figure of about 60%, or (100-60)/100 = 40 %.
 
Well, a little update for anyone who's interested:

After returning my second EV-2436, an HP ZR2440w, and several 23" TN panels afterwards (wow, TN really is shit), I finally settled on a Dell U2311h. Gotta say, I'm pretty happy with it. The drawbacks, of course, are 23" 1080p instead of 24" 1200p and a grainier anti-glare coating, but I think overall it's a pretty good screen. Good contrast, tolerable corner glow, no ghosting or overdrive halos, and best of all, very little flicker due to CCFL. I'm glad I didn't give up on finding an IPS because I guess with a CCFL backlight, it's a decent panel type. Dunno what it is about LEDs, I guess because of how they are edge lit as opposed to a more uniform CCFL backlight.

Anyhow, thanks everyone for your advice and encouragement! And good luck to everyone with your Eizos, I hope it works out better for you than it did for me.
 
I got a Eizo EV2436W at work yesterday and and i must say i was deeply worried when i read this thread but after using it for 2 days i seem to have got a really good one.

There's no noticeable blb, no pixel defects or smudges. The AG coating is clearly grainier than the BenQ BL2411PT i got at home but i don't think it is that bad. Maybe the grainier coating is bearable because the EV2436W is flickerfree? or maybe it's because the office is brighter lit?

The initial calibrator (ColorMunki Photo) run gave the following out-of-box values:

Whitepoint: D6200
Whitelevel: 350 nits
Gamma average: 2.3
Contrast: 990
Average error dE (CIE2000): 4.5

The monitor settings to get as close as possible to D6500, G2.2, 120 nits is:

Mode: User1
Brightness: 29
Gamma: 2.0 (the calibrator measured value is 2.1)
Gain (R): 100
Gain (G): 95
Gain (B): 98

And the calibration results were:

Whitepoint = 6466
Whitelevel = 118
dEavg = 0.32
Gamma = 2.19
Contrast = 981

If i had to choose between my BenQ BL2411PT (at home) and the Eizo EV2435W (at work) i would go with the BenQ because of the coating but the Eizo is not bad at all and i think it will serve me really well for the years to come when i am at work.
 
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Hi all.
Its nice to be here.
My first post.

I just got my Eizo EV2436W and I think its not the best one.
Its hard for me to judge if it looks ok so if you could have a look at that image made with 30 brightness. Dose it look normal to you guys?

I also have a burned pixel but I don't mind it too much.
The worst thing for me is when I move closer to the monitor the bottom part is becoming a bit darker and I think yellowish. With this panel it all should look the same no matter where your eye level is, right? The monitor had been calibrated with i1 display pro.

One picture is with adjusting EV on camera - 2 to show the contrast.

1jrmfd.jpg


u3nrk.jpg


I also think it has a yellowish tint on the right side and a blue on the right.
Should I send it to Eizo?

Thank you .
 
Hello.
I also noticed I have a huge gradient banding in osx and in software like Photoshop.
It appears in bought OSX and Windows system. Plus there are vertical lines running from top to bottom of the screen. I tried to take a picture of it.

72bvuu.jpg


and a white point and luminance difference in different parts of my Eizo.

4k7a83.jpg


mh9kjt.jpg
 
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