New Diesel and Petrol Vehicles to Be Banned from 2040 in UK

Megalith

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As a means of tackling air pollution, the UK government has decided to ban all new diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040. The effort is being spearheaded with a 255M GBP (355M US) fund that will be used for new, environmentally friendly technologies, the changing of road layouts, and ways to encourage residents to adopt public transport. Industry experts predict that electric cars will outcompete petrol and diesel vehicles on factors like cost by 2020.

The funding pot will come from changes to tax on diesel vehicles and reprioritizing departmental budgets - the exact details will be announced later in the year. Councils could change road layouts, retrofit public transport, and encourage local people to leave their cars at home. A Clean Air Fund would allow local authorities to bid for additional money to put in more air quality control measures. A new Automated and Electric Vehicles Bill will allow the government to require the installation of charge points for electric vehicles at motorway service areas and large fuel retailers.
 
This already won't work and the UK knows it. Only a 2% increase in the amount of Electric vehicles currently in use in the UK will overwhelm their powergrid. Thus, this is a scam idea that will not be enforceable. That is unless this is actually a announcement of a full implementation of hydrogen fuel cell stations across the UK. Plus they would need to probably build a new nuclear plant to produce the hydrogen. Then maybe this could work. Rare Earth mineral batteries + draw in the UK power infrastructure = failure. They already know this won't work so why write idiotic laws that can't possibly work? I get the idea of trying to move off gas and diesel, but you must have a plan that is actually possible first. Battery isn't it.
 
This already won't work and the UK knows it. Only a 2% increase in the amount of Electric vehicles currently in use in the UK will overwhelm their powergrid. Thus, this is a scam idea that will not be enforceable. That is unless this is actually a announcement of a full implementation of hydrogen fuel cell stations across the UK. Plus they would need to probably build a new nuclear plant to produce the hydrogen. Then maybe this could work. Rare Earth mineral batteries + draw in the UK power infrastructure = failure. They already know this won't work so why write idiotic laws that can't possibly work? I get the idea of trying to move off gas and diesel, but you must have a plan that is actually possible first. Battery isn't it.
I agree they have to heavily invest in a new infrastructure for the power grid to being to handle this. Then what happens when the power goes out due to a storm or accident? Then no one can charge their cars and must find alternate means of transport. Which means they have to have the capacity to store emergency energy.....forcing everyone to invest in onsite batteries and power storage......I see a lot of issues here before they can enforce this ban.
 
We have a discussion about this on the gentoo forum. Ill post what I wrote there

Naib said:
the irony is it was the corrupt EU politicians that pushed diesel as clean and gave tax cuts ...

EV is a joke right now but is improving
hybrids are like the vhs-dvd combo's and I pity the fool that bought into them
Petrol/Diesel will still be needed for long haul and HGV

22years? assuming we are still here, assuming the oceans can be mined for rare earth... sure EV for urban travel, even city-city in any european country is doable. WHAT I want to know is what is the gov'n going to do about infrastructure...

BMW 7series... 327 kW, ~ 1000miles on a full tank, 60mpg => 16.6gallon tank. => 75.5litres. (diesel) 36.9 MJ/litre => a fully fuelled 7series has 2.7TJ of energy in its tanks.
87 billion vehicle miles in the UK in 2014.

keeping it simple and assuming all that was done by 7series ... 235EJ for energy on the roads...
In 2014, the UK consumed 2,249 TWh of electrical energy => 81EJ of energy.

in the next 20years more and more EV will be sold and produced until in 2040 no more petrol/diesel (LPG?, other fuel?)... one could assume from then only EV... 2.6million new cars were registered in 2016...
What is the gov'n doing to
1) increase electrical generation capability
2) increase the national and regional distribution to cater for 3x load increase at some point in the next 20-30 years purely from vehicles
 
I predict we'll see cars in Britain look like they did in Cuba.

from what i read yesterday.. the green party that was pushing this all long was actually pissed that one of the provisions to remove all existing ICE cars was not included in this. LOL

though, what makes me chuckle is that the dirtiest polluter is not even on this.. trucks. why? because they know that simply cannot fly
 
I predict we'll see cars in Britain look like they did in Cuba.

Got any more of them fuel pumps down in the black market?
please note France stated the exact same policy last week
 
So what's the plan for dealing with a massive spike in extremely toxic batteries

right now... nothing. After reading about it yesterday i spent some time looking into recycling. right now regular lead batteries have a near 100% recycle rate, which is pretty damn impressive. lithium?? not in any form currently as it is not economically viable to recycle them for the lithium, its simply cheaper to produce new lithium. other elements in the battery are recycled because they are worth it, but not lithium.
 
My license runs out to drive in the UK in 2043 so I really don't care.
 
The people who came up with this idea won't have to follow through with it as they won't be around in 2040. They just come up with the ideas and let someone else implement it.
This is not America's 8 years and you are out system. 2040 is only 23 years away. plenty of people will still be around.
Many overseas countries make long term plans and goals, and it why a lot of them er way ahead on several levels than the us because, here we need that upfront investment return back fast or we don't do jack



from what i read yesterday.. the green party that was pushing this all long was actually pissed that one of the provisions to remove all existing ICE cars was not included in this. LOL

though, what makes me chuckle is that the dirtiest polluter is not even on this.. trucks. why? because they know that simply cannot fly
So are you saying making plans about what is achievable and what wont fly is laughable?
 
The people who came up with this idea won't have to follow through with it as they won't be around in 2040. They just come up with the ideas and let someone else implement it.

This.

The reason has more to do with pandering to the environmentalist than any actual benefit.
It's all about getting through the next election cycle.
Who cares what happens 20 years from now, they will all be retired and living off their fat pension.
 
2040 is a ridiculously conservative target, but symbolically it's still worth something, Germany already got a little upset about the negative PR it gave to their Diesel vehicle lines so it served as a warning shot for their cartel at least.

The point is moot, economic reasons will likely push EVs into a dominant position before then. Battery costs are just falling rapidly while getting more dense every passing year, the estimate is that somewhere around 2022-2025 it would be cheaper to make an EV vs ICE vehicle.

So yes just a lazy political move for brownie points, little substance, nothing forward looking about it, but still a positive gesture from such old farts.
 
So are you saying making plans about what is achievable and what wont fly is laughable?

but the thing is, there are no real plans.. just some vague goals with a timeline 23 years into the future. its nothing more then political grandstanding to make themselves look good, NOW.

no, lets get serious about it. lets get some actual concrete plans laid out how we will clean our air and water. starting today...

we see these vague talks about "tomorrow" every year.. yet nothing really ever gets done today
 
When you have a political mandate for something 23 years away, it's not real. It's a feel good piece of legislation to push an agenda and make points with people who agree with your views. There's no substance to this. It's like all those science breakthroughs. "It might be 20 yaers before we see this in use..."
 
from what i read yesterday.. the green party that was pushing this all long was actually pissed that one of the provisions to remove all existing ICE cars was not included in this. LOL

though, what makes me chuckle is that the dirtiest polluter is not even on this.. trucks. why? because they know that simply cannot fly

You will notice that the biggest polluters and sources of waste are never mentioned, the military. Hmm, I wonder why?

Funny in a tragic way, there was a story that came out years ago, showing the cost the the US DoD for Desiel fuel in Afghanistan averaged around 400$ a gallon somewhere around 2010-2012. In Afghanistan, the US military used diesel generators for the bulk of their electrical needs, including for air conditioning non-insulated tents and buildings in the desert. The figure was for one year, around 40 billion dollars to cool the tents etc.

Instead of the ~355 million dollars in research money, 30-100 billion would go alot farther..
 
I predict older ice cars/trucks will start going up in value as this deadline nears.
They will have to raise taxes/registration to crazy levels to force people to give up their older cars. (something like $5,000/year to license an ICE car)
 
Now you've got this song playing in my head for the rest of the week. Thanks.

 
Man, the apocalyptic outcome of that sort of thing would be epic. In a bad way.

It shouldn't be that bad, it's not like they will ban cars currently on the road (YET?!?). Just that any new vehicle has to be electric drivetrain (hybrid or full electric). And I'm sure there will always be exceptions for muscle cars and exotics.
 
wow... $355M USD... that's like a lot or something to come up with an alternative?

Or is it like grants everywhere, politicians give funds to their friends who own auto companies to "come up" with electric technology by essentially doing the exact same as what has already been done elsewhere?
 
but the thing is, there are no real plans.. just some vague goals with a timeline 23 years into the future. its nothing more then political grandstanding to make themselves look good, NOW.

no, lets get serious about it. lets get some actual concrete plans laid out how we will clean our air and water. starting today...

we see these vague talks about "tomorrow" every year.. yet nothing really ever gets done today

I might have missed it but where do you get from there is no plans?
These kind of long term goals are not knew over seas.
my birht country had long term goals to hit 50% power comming from renewalbe erengy in 2015 they set that back at the millennium change.. and they hit it. the nest goal is 99% at 2050.
So again just bevause here in the US we have a history of not beeing able to commit to long term goal due to at constant "war between two political fronts" is not the same as UK or other countries cant commit and succeed
 
I might have missed it but where do you get from there is no plans?
These kind of long term goals are not knew over seas.
my birht country had long term goals to hit 50% power comming from renewalbe erengy in 2015 they set that back at the millennium change.. and they hit it. the nest goal is 99% at 2050.
So again just bevause here in the US we have a history of not beeing able to commit to long term goal due to at constant "war between two political fronts" is not the same as UK or other countries cant commit and succeed

You must come from a small country. The vast land expanse of the US would make that goal very difficult.
 
By that point hopefully we will have fuel cell cars that run on water split to hydrogen with the by product as oxygen. We already have the tech but big oil
won't go for filling your car with cheap tap water from your own house.
 
my birht country had long term goals to hit 50% power comming from renewalbe erengy in 2015 they set that back at the millennium change.. and they hit it. the nest goal is 99% at 2050

yes, sweden did hit around 50% "renewables" in 2015, but the vast bulk comes from hydro power. only 10% from wind and a drop in the bucket for solar. Sweden is very lucky they have such vast hydro resources in use, almost 50% of yopur power comes from it. here in the US and other places, we do not have such. We have actually lost some hydro power here in the US because of environmental concerns

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Sweden
 
yes, sweden did hit around 50% "renewables" in 2015, but the vast bulk comes from hydro power. only 10% from wind and a drop in the bucket for solar. Sweden is very lucky they have such vast hydro resources in use, almost 50% of yopur power comes from it. here in the US and other places, we do not have such. We have actually lost some hydro power here in the US because of environmental concerns

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Sweden

Ya. Idaho averages 74% of their power from hydro. Droughts have started killing that though. It's around 54% hydro now. Another 16% wind. Biofuels for the rest.

Course other states aren't anything like this.
 
I agree they have to heavily invest in a new infrastructure for the power grid to being to handle this. Then what happens when the power goes out due to a storm or accident? Then no one can charge their cars and must find alternate means of transport. Which means they have to have the capacity to store emergency energy.....forcing everyone to invest in onsite batteries and power storage......I see a lot of issues here before they can enforce this ban.
Wasn't it the idea that electric cars batteries can power the home for days easily if the electricity goes out?
 
If we could only sequester a few trillion more gallons of freshwater at a high enough elevation, hydro could gain a few more percent.

Desalinate more ocean water? Pick the Dead Sea...it's already dead. Ship the fresh water to the Andes. Then pump it back uphill as needed.

Oh...all the dammable water has already been dammed. Hydro is a dead end.
 
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