New build, help. 3k budget(WoT inside)

[Masfeo]

Hello guys; As you saw in the title, I want to build a new PC. The budget is around 3000€.

Right now I have an old overclocked Xeon x5675, which is consuming too much power for what it is capable to do. It is paired with a NZXT Kraken x61 AIO cooler(280mm radiator), and a GTX 1060 6gb for the graphics.

I'm looking for something that will hopefully last a lot of years, like my old system did. And just to put you in perspective of want I want, I'll tell you the procedure I followed when I bought the Intel CPU:

(WARNING: If you don't want to read "all my thoughts"(aka Wall of Text), go to the end of the post. From --MAIN-- onwards)

- I started with an i7-920 processor, which was good back then.
- I looked for a good Motherboard that would allow me to safely overclock the processors I could fit inside of it. Any quality-of-life features that further future-proof the system are welcome (In this case, It was USB 3.0. VERY helpfull down the line)
- Next step was RAM. I've always been a big fan of RAM, and so I went for a very good module at the time (12gb 2400 cl8 ddr3)
- Nice case with enough room for good airflow and future parts
- Good enough GPU to play games at monitor's frequency if possible.

This time I'm kind of doing the same, to hopefully achieve at least the same output.

But now I started with the monitor; I want a system that is able to deliver 240+ fps at 1080p in current and future competitive FPS games (overwatch, Quake...), and 144+ in games like PUBG. Which shouldn't be too difficult because my 10 years old system is capable of 135+ and 80+ w/o overclock. It should also be able to handle recording, streaming, video and 3D rendering.

Since I had no knowledge at all of the new technologies, I spent ~36hrs of the last weekend + 12hrs of this week looking for info. I went over:

-TR4 -> Not worth. Short life and bad in games.
-Intel X299 -> Really good until I saw the power consumption of the new 10xxx processors under load. It also seems to be at the end of its life cycle, hindering longevity. So it fails two of my main concerns.
-AM4(x570) -> Looking VERY good atm.
-TRX40 -> Looking exceptional(ly expensive) atm.

AMD seems to be the better choice. x570 and TRX40 are recent, so I guess they will give it support until DDR5 RAM in 2021 or so. Allowing me to upgrade in the distant future and, therefore, increasing longevity. PCIe 4.0 comes in handy as well (even tho I saw some peopple mocking it), it's kind of the same situation as with USB 3.0; you don't want to be stuck with lower storage speeds 6-8 years from now, it also opens up the possibility of faster GPU speeds in the future I guess. So I actually value that.

The PC will be bought mid January to early February, depending on prices and christmas expenses. This is what I came up with so far (Not finished yet, just an idea):

AM4(x570) Build:

Monitor: 240hz panel. TBA. 500€.
RAM: 4x8gb G.Skill NEO 3800 cl14. 615€
CPU: R7 3700x. 345€
MOBO: TBA. 450€¿?
GPU: RTX2080ti. 1200€
PSU: TBA. 180€
Case: NOX Hummer. 43€
Cooler: NZXT Kraken x61. 0€
SSD: 0€

Total: ~3333€

TRX40 Build:

Monitor: 240hz panel. TBA. 500€.
RAM: 4x8gb G.Skill NEO 3800 cl14. 615€
CPU: TR 3960x. 1500€
MOBO: TBA. 500€¿?
GPU: GTX 1060 6gb. 0€
PSU: TBA. 200€¿?
Case: NOX Hummer. 43€
Cooler: NZXT Kraken x61. 0€
SSD: 0€

Total: 3358€

The x570 build is more well-rounded I feel. Fits my needs right now and allows me to upgrade to, at least, a R9 3950x processor in the future (probably even newer ones launched in 2020). Looks pretty much like my old x58 build, nice and solid. I chose the RTX2080ti because I feel it will retain the value better once the 30 series hit the market in 2020. Main concerns are low PCIe lane count and dual-channel memory (longevity, quality-of-life features).

The TRX40 build is weirder, but more exciting and with more potential I think. It greatly surpasses my needs right now, which means I wont have to upgrade until very very late. And in case I need an upgrade, I have the 3970x and whatever comes in 2020. I could also double the RAM by buying another kit (even tho it will be next to impossible to find the same model). Main concerns are power consumption and cooling, as well as the "fear" that the platform (since it is the HEDT platform) will only "grow horizontally" instead of "vertically" as well (meaning adding more cores without considering high frequencies/single core performance too much).

The only caveat (that I know) of the TRX40 build is the fact that I can't afford a new GPU, but the GTX1060 is capable of achieve 180fps (overwatch) when I play with my old Xeon at 4.45ghz. I don't think the 1060 can achieve 240fps even if I overclock it, but paired with the new monitor it would be a big jump in enjoyment anyways. Aaaand with the new 30 series of Nvidia, I could probably get another cheap 1060 and achieve the wished 240hz for a few Euros, thanks to the many PCIe lanes that TRX40 offers(that will also greatly help with storage), and upgrade to a better GPU later.

----------------MAIN-------------------

So, I need you guys to guide me. I need help.

The monitor is non-negotiable, it will be bought (benq XL2546 most likely).

I said that I'm a big fan of RAM, specially in a Zen system, and that's why the 3800 cl14. If you can give really solid arguments of why it's a waste of money (or find one that is better and fits in the budget), it could be dropped from the list; otherwise it is pretty much non-negotiable also. All the other parts are susceptible to change (except the processor+GPU in the TRX40 build, of course). For each build, I'm specially interested in:

-MOBO with quality "acomodations" for the RAM, that is also able to handle some degree of CPU OC as well.
-A PSU that feeds what needs to be feeded.

So, given the next two builds, complete the missing items. Try to stay as close to the budget(3000€) as possible:

Build 1 - AM4(x570)

Monitor: 240hz panel. TBA. 500€.
RAM: 4x8gb G.Skill NEO 3800 cl14. 615€
CPU:
MOBO:
GPU:
PSU:
Case:
Cooler: NZXT Kraken x61. 0€
SSD: 0€

Total: 1115 + ??? = ???€/$

Build 2 - TRX40

Monitor: 240hz panel. TBA. 500€.
RAM: 4x8gb G.Skill NEO 3800 cl14. 615€
CPU: TR 3960x. 1500€
MOBO:
GPU: GTX 1060 6gb. 0€
PSU:
Case:
Cooler: NZXT Kraken x61. 0€
SSD: 0€

Total: 2615 + ??? = ???€/$

Thanks to all.

Pd: Special thanks to the ones that took the time to read all the post.

 

[GalacticAC]

X570 all the way. Better at games than TR and paired with 2080ti - no brainer. With TR you'll end up over budget because you're going to buy a more powerful GPU sooner rather than later. Also, you'll probably need a different cooling solution for TR.

I just built my 3900x system with that exact ram kit for a similar ridiculous price.

It had the XMP profile for 3800 cl14 ready to go. Set the infinity fabric to 1900, enabled PBO and it was off to the races. Worked perfectly, using the x570 Aorus Master.

I would, however advise against it. In memory specific benchmarks I'm seeing improvements of ~5% across the board vs 3600 cl 16. However, I don't believe it will translate into real world - not memory benchmarks. There's also the distinct possibility that tweaking the 3600c16 kit could close that gap.

What does clearly translate is the performance of your cooling. The lower the temps, the higher your CPU will boost, especially on PBO. I say take the ~300 you save from RAM and put it into cooling, case or another peripheral. (if you're set on spending it)

 

[amigafan2003]

X570 all the way. Better at games than TR and paired with 2080ti - no brainer. With TR you'll end up over budget because you're going to buy a more powerful GPU sooner rather than later. Also, you'll probably need a different cooling solution for TR.

I just built my 3900x system with that exact ram kit for a similar ridiculous price.

It had the XMP profile for 3800 cl14 ready to go. Set the infinity fabric to 1900, enabled PBO and it was off to the races. Worked perfectly, using the x570 Aorus Master.

I would, however advise against it. In memory specific benchmarks I'm seeing improvements of ~5% across the board vs 3600 cl 16. However, I don't believe it will translate into real world - not memory benchmarks. There's also the distinct possibility that tweaking the 3600c16 kit could close that gap.

What does clearly translate is the performance of your cooling. The lower the temps, the higher your CPU will boost, especially on PBO. I say take the ~300 you save from RAM and put it into cooling, case or another peripheral. (if you're set on spending it)

Go for Threadripper 3960X - drop the ram spec to 3600C16 (no point going higher due to FSB:IF 1:1 lock breaking), I've just bought 64gb (4x16gb) gSkill Neo for 320 gbp. Asus Strix TRX40-E is a solid board as well, should save a bit of money.

 

[GalacticAC]

I know you say you're stuck on the monitor, but if you downgrade the ram there would be room to get this instead https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/access...-25A19270QY0-27-Monitor-HDMI-SPK/p/65EDGAC1US

 

[tangoseal]

X570 all the way. Better at games than TR and paired with 2080ti - no brainer. With TR you'll end up over budget because you're going to buy a more powerful GPU sooner rather than later. Also, you'll probably need a different cooling solution for TR.

I just built my 3900x system with that exact ram kit for a similar ridiculous price.

It had the XMP profile for 3800 cl14 ready to go. Set the infinity fabric to 1900, enabled PBO and it was off to the races. Worked perfectly, using the x570 Aorus Master.

I would, however advise against it. In memory specific benchmarks I'm seeing improvements of ~5% across the board vs 3600 cl 16. However, I don't believe it will translate into real world - not memory benchmarks. There's also the distinct possibility that tweaking the 3600c16 kit could close that gap.

What does clearly translate is the performance of your cooling. The lower the temps, the higher your CPU will boost, especially on PBO. I say take the ~300 you save from RAM and put it into cooling, case or another peripheral. (if you're set on spending it)

Dude a chipset is not better at games than a CPU. I know what you meant but I had to ha ha

X570 is nice but it ain't threadripper nice.

If you have the cash op, go with 3960x.

If not do as he said and get x570 and a 3950x. 3950x is a wee bit faster at gaming on the knife edge over threadripper. Like where a 3960x gets 179 fps a 3950x will get 180 fps lmao.

 

[Legendary Gamer]

Hello guys; As you saw in the title, I want to build a new PC. The budget is around 3000€.

Right now I have an old overclocked Xeon x5675, which is consuming too much power for what it is capable to do. It is paired with a NZXT Kraken x61 AIO cooler(280mm radiator), and a GTX 1060 6gb for the graphics.

I'm looking for something that will hopefully last a lot of years, like my old system did. And just to put you in perspective of want I want, I'll tell you the procedure I followed when I bought the Intel CPU:

(WARNING: If you don't want to read "all my thoughts"(aka Wall of Text), go to the end of the post. From --MAIN-- onwards)

- I started with an i7-920 processor, which was good back then.
- I looked for a good Motherboard that would allow me to safely overclock the processors I could fit inside of it. Any quality-of-life features that further future-proof the system are welcome (In this case, It was USB 3.0. VERY helpfull down the line)
- Next step was RAM. I've always been a big fan of RAM, and so I went for a very good module at the time (12gb 2400 cl8 ddr3)
- Nice case with enough room for good airflow and future parts
- Good enough GPU to play games at monitor's frequency if possible.

This time I'm kind of doing the same, to hopefully achieve at least the same output.

But now I started with the monitor; I want a system that is able to deliver 240+ fps at 1080p in current and future competitive FPS games (overwatch, Quake...), and 144+ in games like PUBG. Which shouldn't be too difficult because my 10 years old system is capable of 135+ and 80+ w/o overclock. It should also be able to handle recording, streaming, video and 3D rendering.

Since I had no knowledge at all of the new technologies, I spent ~36hrs of the last weekend + 12hrs of this week looking for info. I went over:

-TR4 -> Not worth. Short life and bad in games.
-Intel X299 -> Really good until I saw the power consumption of the new 10xxx processors under load. It also seems to be at the end of its life cycle, hindering longevity. So it fails two of my main concerns.
-AM4(x570) -> Looking VERY good atm.
-TRX40 -> Looking exceptional(ly expensive) atm.

AMD seems to be the better choice. x570 and TRX40 are recent, so I guess they will give it support until DDR5 RAM in 2021 or so. Allowing me to upgrade in the distant future and, therefore, increasing longevity. PCIe 4.0 comes in handy as well (even tho I saw some peopple mocking it), it's kind of the same situation as with USB 3.0; you don't want to be stuck with lower storage speeds 6-8 years from now, it also opens up the possibility of faster GPU speeds in the future I guess. So I actually value that.

The PC will be bought mid January to early February, depending on prices and christmas expenses. This is what I came up with so far (Not finished yet, just an idea):

AM4(x570) Build:

Monitor: 240hz panel. TBA. 500€.
RAM: 4x8gb G.Skill NEO 3800 cl14. 615€
CPU: R7 3700x. 345€
MOBO: TBA. 450€¿?
GPU: RTX2080ti. 1200€
PSU: TBA. 180€
Case: NOX Hummer. 43€
Cooler: NZXT Kraken x61. 0€
SSD: 0€

Total: ~3333€

TRX40 Build:

Monitor: 240hz panel. TBA. 500€.
RAM: 4x8gb G.Skill NEO 3800 cl14. 615€
CPU: TR 3960x. 1500€
MOBO: TBA. 500€¿?
GPU: GTX 1060 6gb. 0€
PSU: TBA. 200€¿?
Case: NOX Hummer. 43€
Cooler: NZXT Kraken x61. 0€
SSD: 0€

Total: 3358€

The x570 build is more well-rounded I feel. Fits my needs right now and allows me to upgrade to, at least, a R9 3950x processor in the future (probably even newer ones launched in 2020). Looks pretty much like my old x58 build, nice and solid. I chose the RTX2080ti because I feel it will retain the value better once the 30 series hit the market in 2020. Main concerns are low PCIe lane count and dual-channel memory (longevity, quality-of-life features).

The TRX40 build is weirder, but more exciting and with more potential I think. It greatly surpasses my needs right now, which means I wont have to upgrade until very very late. And in case I need an upgrade, I have the 3970x and whatever comes in 2020. I could also double the RAM by buying another kit (even tho it will be next to impossible to find the same model). Main concerns are power consumption and cooling, as well as the "fear" that the platform (since it is the HEDT platform) will only "grow horizontally" instead of "vertically" as well (meaning adding more cores without considering high frequencies/single core performance too much).

The only caveat (that I know) of the TRX40 build is the fact that I can't afford a new GPU, but the GTX1060 is capable of achieve 180fps (overwatch) when I play with my old Xeon at 4.45ghz. I don't think the 1060 can achieve 240fps even if I overclock it, but paired with the new monitor it would be a big jump in enjoyment anyways. Aaaand with the new 30 series of Nvidia, I could probably get another cheap 1060 and achieve the wished 240hz for a few Euros, thanks to the many PCIe lanes that TRX40 offers(that will also greatly help with storage), and upgrade to a better GPU later.

----------------MAIN-------------------

So, I need you guys to guide me. I need help.

The monitor is non-negotiable, it will be bought (benq XL2546 most likely).

I said that I'm a big fan of RAM, specially in a Zen system, and that's why the 3800 cl14. If you can give really solid arguments of why it's a waste of money (or find one that is better and fits in the budget), it could be dropped from the list; otherwise it is pretty much non-negotiable also. All the other parts are susceptible to change (except the processor+GPU in the TRX40 build, of course). For each build, I'm specially interested in:

-MOBO with quality "acomodations" for the RAM, that is also able to handle some degree of CPU OC as well.
-A PSU that feeds what needs to be feeded.

So, given the next two builds, complete the missing items. Try to stay as close to the budget(3000€) as possible:

Build 1 - AM4(x570)

Monitor: 240hz panel. TBA. 500€.
RAM: 4x8gb G.Skill NEO 3800 cl14. 615€
CPU:
MOBO:
GPU:
PSU:
Case:
Cooler: NZXT Kraken x61. 0€
SSD: 0€

Total: 1115 + ??? = ???€/$

Build 2 - TRX40

Monitor: 240hz panel. TBA. 500€.
RAM: 4x8gb G.Skill NEO 3800 cl14. 615€
CPU: TR 3960x. 1500€
MOBO:
GPU: GTX 1060 6gb. 0€
PSU:
Case:
Cooler: NZXT Kraken x61. 0€
SSD: 0€

Total: 2615 + ??? = ???€/$

Thanks to all.

Pd: Special thanks to the ones that took the time to read all the post.

Look at the X570 platform and AMD as an exceptional, cost effective, solution. The platform will be good for 1-2 more CPU generations. The 2020 Zen 3 at the very least. You get a lot of bang out of your investment going this route with a 3900. Your ROI and ability to expand as necessary into a next gen processor is going to be the sweet spot here. The next gen (Zen 3), if rumors are accurate, will yield another 15% performance improvement over Zen 2.

Threadripper on TR40 is sick, as in AWESOME. You are getting some of the best binned processors, if you need cores and memory bandwidth it's all right here for you. 64 Cores / 128 Threads won't be available until sometime in 2020. The platform is going to have some longevity in it, 1-2 CPU generations worth. The buy in is considerably expensive compared to X570 and a "desktop" CPU (which I have to use loosely with 12/24 and 16/32 cores).

Intel Spectrum is fine if you are willing to overlook the security issues, the slowdowns after patching and an undying 14nm process in it's 7th or 8th Silicon refinement (Broadwell - Haswell - (Technically) Haswell Devils Canyon - Skylake - Kaby Lake - Coffee Lake - Whiskey Lake & Amber Lake...) The 10th Gen parts have Software and Hardware Mitigations to Intel's woes... but good luck finding an Intel 10th gen part. The buy in is about a Grand for the 18 Core parts IIRC. Might be a good option if you already had that platform, otherwise go AMD, save some money.

I am ball parking here, but I figure you can come out of a decent X570 & 3900 build with 500-1000 left over.

FYI - on the AMD X570 platform you will be better off shooting higher density (as in only a pair of chips) RAM if you want to run them at maximum speed. I had some luck getting 4 Sticks of 3866 running damn near full speed on an X470 board that was not stable at all. I cannot recommend that approach.

 

[GalacticAC]

Dude a chipset is not better at games than a CPU. I know what you meant but I had to ha ha

X570 is nice but it ain't threadripper nice.

If you have the cash op, go with 3960x.

If not do as he said and get x570 and a 3950x. 3950x is a wee bit faster at gaming on the knife edge over threadripper. Like where a 3960x gets 179 fps a 3950x will get 180 fps lmao.

Lol got me. Yeah I overstated the difference really, if money were no object the 3960X + 2080ti is the king. It's really only better in the sense that it comes with the better GPU

OPs only stated use was for gaming, and while a 1060 might have him covered for those specific games/frames, whatever they do, getting the 2080ti in the budget would me my top priority with gaming in mind. 1080p is all well and good, but a 1060 would really lock you in at that resolution.

Much as I like the 3900X / 3950X, for this use I'd get a 3800X / 2080ti and custom water loop it all (or save the money).

Doesn't have the boom snap of saying "I gots a threadripper " but you know how it goes.

I know we're in the AMD section but a 9900K/KS is very strong in this area as well.

With this budget there is so many options honestly.

 

[tangoseal]

Lol got me. Yeah I overstated the difference really, if money were no object the 3960X + 2080ti is the king. It's really only better in the sense that it comes with the better GPU

OPs only stated use was for gaming, and while a 1060 might have him covered for those specific games/frames, whatever they do, getting the 2080ti in the budget would me my top priority with gaming in mind. 1080p is all well and good, but a 1060 would really lock you in at that resolution.

Much as I like the 3900X / 3950X, for this use I'd get a 3800X / 2080ti and custom water loop it all (or save the money).

Doesn't have the boom snap of saying "I gots a threadripper " but you know how it goes.

I know we're in the AMD section but a 9900K/KS is very strong in this area as well.

With this budget there is so many options honestly.

To be honest I didnt read the whole thread. Pure gaming. Screw threadripper. I'd go with a 3800x/9900k and a badass gpu like a 2080ti or 2x 2070 supers in sli. And a damn good lcd.

 

[Masfeo]

Thank you so much for the responses guys. I'll try to order my thoughts and come at you later, or else I'm gonna end up making another huge Wall of Text xD

I'm also on a Athlon XP2000+ that doesn't allow me to install a new web browser because it doesn't have SSE2 instructions, so I can't open 70% of the webs and I don't have JS functionality (I'm also using a phone, but I hate reading on a phone). That makes all a little bit more difficult lol.

But for now, I have a couple of questions:
- I have doubts about Game Mode(specially in the 3960x): I think it shuts down all cores except 8. I think the idea is to get less RAM latency and improve compatibility with some titles; Are power usage and temps reduced(24 down to 8 cores)? How does the system choose which cores to use? Can I OC those cores once inside Game Mode?
-For those with 3800+ RAM: Could you post some aida64 mem tests showing bandwith and latency? If you could do the same in game mode to see difference, it would be great.

I need to read more about how Inifinity Fabric works. I saw that the sweet spot was 3733 cl17, so that's my reference. But then I saw that the charts were not correct and now I'm not sure. The idea behind the 3800 module was that if 3733cl17 is good, then 3733cl14 is better.

 

[Masfeo]

Ok, I'll try not to write too much.

GalacticAC yes, that's what I'm most concerned about, the cooler. But the Zen architecture seems to have various power saving options, so I should be good most of the time. Also, I have seen reviews of the 3960x with a Corsair H115i(not too far off my Kraken x61), and it was doing a decent job.

For the monitor part... It looks amazing, but it's 1k euros. Way too much. I also like 24" for gaming, and the fact that it is a TN panel defeats the pourpose of getting it for sheer image quality(something you would expect out of a 1k€ monitor).

tangoseal I don't think it makes much sense for me to go for the 900€ 3950x. If I go for a Ryzen 3 chip my options are: 3700x or 3800x, paired with a fat GPU. 2x 2070 in sli wouildn't make much sense since that would be 32x PCIe lanes used, and the 3800x has only 24x.

Legendary Gamer Thanks for the analysis. Intel is out of the question, not worth at all right now. But regarding the 64c TR; I don't think that will be launched in the TRX40 platform. They said that with 7nm they were able two double the amount of cores on the AM4, and so they went from 8 to 16 cores. I think TRX40 it's kind of the same thing right now, not sure tho.

I know I can make a decent cheaper build in the x570 platform, but I have 3k that I've been saving for a long time (I'm not a "whale" precisely) and I want the best I can get. That means not only performance, but efficiency and flexibility for the future. Keep in mind that I plan on keeping this PC for a VERY long time, just making slight upgrades over the years as I need them (GPU, cooling, storage and CPU). So if I go for a x570 build, it will be a 3k build.

But that's where I think the x570 platform fails. It doesn't allow for scalability in the future due to low PCIe count. It allows for a GPU and two NVME SSDs, and that's it.

Gaming is not the main priority for the build btw, but it is a requirement that it runs the games I play at least at monitor's frequency. And I want to get a new monitor because it doesn't completely makes sense to spend 3k in a PC if I'm gonna play at the same 120hz I do now. As I said, It should be able to handle streaming, video/photo editing and 3d rendering (and who knows what else in the future). The perfect thing would be a TR with 16 cores for 900€, but that does not exist. With the TR build, the idea is to get another 1060 (I think it is possible to snatch a 2nd hand one for 80€), and since most games I play support SLI, it would be a ~1.8x improvement for 80€... good value.

The most difficult thing to decide atm is the RAM. I need to learn more about Infinity Fabric, but I really really like fast RAM (everything in the system uses RAM). I know that it comes to a point where price/performance ratio goes out the window (it has always been that way), but RAM is one of those things I'm not going to change over the years (except to get more. TR allows that too), and it's the most future-proof part because it has lifetime warranty.

 

[Legendary Gamer]

Ok, I'll try not to write too much.

GalacticAC yes, that's what I'm most concerned about, the cooler. But the Zen architecture seems to have various power saving options, so I should be good most of the time. Also, I have seen reviews of the 3960x with a Corsair H115i(not too far off my Kraken x61), and it was doing a decent job.

For the monitor part... It looks amazing, but it's 1k euros. Way too much. I also like 24" for gaming, and the fact that it is a TN panel defeats the pourpose of getting it for sheer image quality(something you would expect out of a 1k€ monitor).

tangoseal I don't think it makes much sense for me to go for the 900€ 3950x. If I go for a Ryzen 3 chip my options are: 3700x or 3800x, paired with a fat GPU. 2x 2070 in sli wouildn't make much sense since that would be 32x PCIe lanes used, and the 3800x has only 24x.

Legendary Gamer Thanks for the analysis. Intel is out of the question, not worth at all right now. But regarding the 64c TR; I don't think that will be launched in the TRX40 platform. They said that with 7nm they were able two double the amount of cores on the AM4, and so they went from 8 to 16 cores. I think TRX40 it's kind of the same thing right now, not sure tho.

I know I can make a decent cheaper build in the x570 platform, but I have 3k that I've been saving for a long time (I'm not a "whale" precisely) and I want the best I can get. That means not only performance, but efficiency and flexibility for the future. Keep in mind that I plan on keeping this PC for a VERY long time, just making slight upgrades over the years as I need them (GPU, cooling, storage and CPU). So if I go for a x570 build, it will be a 3k build.

But that's where I think the x570 platform fails. It doesn't allow for scalability in the future due to low PCIe count. It allows for a GPU and two NVME SSDs, and that's it.

Gaming is not the main priority for the build btw, but it is a requirement that it runs the games I play at least at monitor's frequency. And I want to get a new monitor because it doesn't completely makes sense to spend 3k in a PC if I'm gonna play at the same 120hz I do now. As I said, It should be able to handle streaming, video/photo editing and 3d rendering (and who knows what else in the future). The perfect thing would be a TR with 16 cores for 900€, but that does not exist. With the TR build, the idea is to get another 1060 (I think it is possible to snatch a 2nd hand one for 80€), and since most games I play support SLI, it would be a ~1.8x improvement for 80€... good value.

The most difficult thing to decide atm is the RAM. I need to learn more about Infinity Fabric, but I really really like fast RAM (everything in the system uses RAM). I know that it comes to a point where price/performance ratio goes out the window (it has always been that way), but RAM is one of those things I'm not going to change over the years (except to get more. TR allows that too), and it's the most future-proof part because it has lifetime warranty.

Infinity Fabric and RAM Speeds. What you need to know is that 3600 Mhz Ram is your sweet spot, 3200Mhz Ram is your entry level and I believe that 3733 is your top end. You go above that and you are dealing with a disjointed clock multiplier that fucks with performance. If you want the CCX Modules to operate at speeds above 1600Mhz, you need to make damn certain your RAM doesn't exceed the 3700+Mhz marker. I found it a real bastard to dial in 3866 memory and force it down into the 3733 speed (only locked once and I lost the frequency... and back to 3866 after a reboot). 3600 MHz memory is a pretty damn good bet for a stable and achievable CCX and RAM parity of communication (1800 Mhz). Once you go over a certain point the RAM fabric uncouples from the CPU and the CPU defaults back to stock Infinity Fabric Speeds AFAIK.

Graphics... Go 2080Ti, it's the best you can get as a consumer and the Titan above it is just too damn expensive. You can pick one up for around a cool grand off of EVGA's B-Stock page: https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=11G-P4-2382-RX You can dump a shitload of additional money in to the 2080Ti but you only gain a couple FPS for the next 7-800 dollar investment (yes, they go up to 1800 bucks) and the Titan only costs 2,500 dollars...

You will be better off with that 2080Ti and an AMD 3900 with a good Motherboard and RAM than you will be with a 3950 and a shittier Video Card.

3900 AMD 500
I figure 200 ish for an ASUS Tuf Motherboard
320 Bucks for 32 Gigs of DDR4 3600 RAM
1000 Watt Seasonic PS 250 Bucks
Nice Cheap Case (Rosewill Shark Full Tower is cheap now) 79 Bucks
240mm Water AIO 150 Bucks with Push pull
2080Ti 999
Inland 2TB M.2 SSD 214.99 (hard to beat, screw the premium for PCIE 4X Drives)
https://www.amazon.com/Inland-Premium-M-2-2280-Internal/dp/B07X74M6PT/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?keywords=inland+SSD&qid=1575575676&s=electronics&sr=1-2-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExMk80ODFYOTNTVUwyJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzU3MjM5VzYyVlFUM1JQVEEwJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA5MDA3MjMzQTRUT1BFR0c1SFZWJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1
= 2,712.99 US pre tax (3255.588 VAT); Cut out 16 GB of RAM = 3063.588 VAT
Add a 3950 = + 250 (if you can find it)
An ASUS Strix Mobo = +100 Bucks
360mm Water is about + 100 Bucks
+450 = 3,162.99 US, with VAT you will be sitting around 3795.58 so will wanna tone down these options

If you are going to add a 144Hz 1440P Gaming monitor to this you are looking at further lowering your system build. Keep the monitors you have and buy new ones later.

 

[tangoseal]

3700x is more than sufficient
2070/5700xt super for 1080p or 2560x1440
2080 ti for 3440x1440 and 4k

I owned a 5700xt. It is a monster at 1080p. It's pretty good at 3440x but no where close to 2080ti at that res.

I'd honestly save more money and just get a 3700x and if you dont care at all about compute work (I didnt read your WoT all the way) I'd get a 3600x or 9700k and save more money. 16GB of 3200 @ cl16 set to cl14 and save even more money.

When I recommended 2x 2070 supers I knew all about the lanes but not even a 2080ti at 4k can saturate 8 pcie3 lanes much less 16. Pcie is so far ahead of device demands other than maybe the highest end Host Bus Adapters. Not even a pcie 4.0 nvme drive can saturate the 4x 4.0 lanes it has as demonstrated in reviews.

nVidia just leaked checkerboard rendering in their drivers so that means multiple gpus will act as one monster gpu in theory hence my suggestion for dual cards consideration down the road.

You will never be CPU bound

Don't get misled about your lanes....

 

[Masfeo]

Infinity Fabric and RAM Speeds. What you need to know is that 3600 Mhz Ram is your sweet spot, 3200Mhz Ram is your entry level and I believe that 3733 is your top end. You go above that and you are dealing with a disjointed clock multiplier that fucks with performance. If you want the CCX Modules to operate at speeds above 1600Mhz, you need to make damn certain your RAM doesn't exceed the 3700+Mhz marker. I found it a real bastard to dial in 3866 memory and force it down into the 3733 speed (only locked once and I lost the frequency... and back to 3866 after a reboot). 3600 MHz memory is a pretty damn good bet for a stable and achievable CCX and RAM parity of communication (1800 Mhz). Once you go over a certain point the RAM fabric uncouples from the CPU and the CPU defaults back to stock Infinity Fabric Speeds AFAIK.

Graphics... Go 2080Ti, it's the best you can get as a consumer and the Titan above it is just too damn expensive. You can pick one up for around a cool grand off of EVGA's B-Stock page: https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=11G-P4-2382-RX You can dump a shitload of additional money in to the 2080Ti but you only gain a couple FPS for the next 7-800 dollar investment (yes, they go up to 1800 bucks) and the Titan only costs 2,500 dollars...

You will be better off with that 2080Ti and an AMD 3900 with a good Motherboard and RAM than you will be with a 3950 and a shittier Video Card.

3900 AMD 500
I figure 200 ish for an ASUS Tuf Motherboard
320 Bucks for 32 Gigs of DDR4 3600 RAM
1000 Watt Seasonic PS 250 Bucks
Nice Cheap Case (Rosewill Shark Full Tower is cheap now) 79 Bucks
240mm Water AIO 150 Bucks with Push pull
2080Ti 999
Inland 2TB M.2 SSD 214.99 (hard to beat, screw the premium for PCIE 4X Drives)
https://www.amazon.com/Inland-Premium-M-2-2280-Internal/dp/B07X74M6PT/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?keywords=inland+SSD&qid=1575575676&s=electronics&sr=1-2-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExMk80ODFYOTNTVUwyJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzU3MjM5VzYyVlFUM1JQVEEwJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA5MDA3MjMzQTRUT1BFR0c1SFZWJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1
= 2,712.99 US pre tax (3255.588 VAT); Cut out 16 GB of RAM = 3063.588 VAT
Add a 3950 = + 250 (if you can find it)
An ASUS Strix Mobo = +100 Bucks
360mm Water is about + 100 Bucks
+450 = 3,162.99 US, with VAT you will be sitting around 3795.58 so will wanna tone down these options

If you are going to add a 144Hz 1440P Gaming monitor to this you are looking at further lowering your system build. Keep the monitors you have and buy new ones later.

Thanks for the info. It was interesting to know that you had truble to get your RAM working at 3733. But why did you go for 3866 instead of 3800? I've now read that the infinity fabric FCLK is able to get to 1900 in Zen2, which is on par with the 3800 RAM.

Getting anything above 1200€ for the GPU is out of the question. To be honest I don't really want a 2080ti, I just chose it because I think It will retain value better in the future.

3700x is more than sufficient
2070/5700xt super for 1080p or 2560x1440
2080 ti for 3440x1440 and 4k

I owned a 5700xt. It is a monster at 1080p. It's pretty good at 3440x but no where close to 2080ti at that res.

I'd honestly save more money and just get a 3700x and if you dont care at all about compute work (I didnt read your WoT all the way) I'd get a 3600x or 9700k and save more money. 16GB of 3200 @ cl16 set to cl14 and save even more money.

When I recommended 2x 2070 supers I knew all about the lanes but not even a 2080ti at 4k can saturate 8 pcie3 lanes much less 16. Pcie is so far ahead of device demands other than maybe the highest end Host Bus Adapters. Not even a pcie 4.0 nvme drive can saturate the 4x 4.0 lanes it has as demonstrated in reviews.

nVidia just leaked checkerboard rendering in their drivers so that means multiple gpus will act as one monster gpu in theory hence my suggestion for dual cards consideration down the road.

You will never be CPU bound

Don't get misled about your lanes....

I understand it's not easy to read my posts. But so you know next time, I try to place the most important info at the end and at the start, for the ppl who don't want to read too much. If there is quotes, the general info is at the bottom.

The TLDR is this: Gaming is not the main priority for the build, but it is a requirement that it runs the games I play at 240fps. It should be able to handle streaming, video/photo editing and 3d rendering (and who knows what else in the future). Needs to be as future-proofed as possible.

About the PICe info you gave me; It is very interesting, I was not aware of that. Does that mean that if I have a x570 MOBO (24lanes) I can place 2xGPU and, let's say, 3xNVME drives(18? lanes)?

And about the NVIDIA thing... wow. That makes the TR 2x1060 build even more attractive. It would be 12gb ram & 2560 cuda cores adding both 1060's. A 2070 worth of "stats" for 80€.

Do you have more info about this?

 

[Legendary Gamer]

Thanks for the info. It was interesting to know that you had truble to get your RAM working at 3733. But why did you go for 3866 instead of 3800? I've now read that the infinity fabric FCLK is able to get to 1900 in Zen2, which is on par with the 3800 RAM.

Getting anything above 1200€ for the GPU is out of the question. To be honest I don't really want a 2080ti, I just chose it because I think It will retain value better in the future.



I understand it's not easy to read my posts. But so you know next time, I try to place the most important info at the end and at the start, for the ppl who don't want to read too much. If there is quotes, the general info is at the bottom.

The TLDR is this: Gaming is not the main priority for the build, but it is a requirement that it runs the games I play at 240fps. It should be able to handle streaming, video/photo editing and 3d rendering (and who knows what else in the future). Needs to be as future-proofed as possible.

About the PICe info you gave me; It is very interesting, I was not aware of that. Does that mean that if I have a x570 MOBO (24lanes) I can place 2xGPU and, let's say, 3xNVME drives(18? lanes)?

And about the NVIDIA thing... wow. That makes the TR 2x1060 build even more attractive. It would be 12gb ram & 2560 cuda cores adding both 1060's. A 2070 worth of "stats" for 80€.

Do you have more info about this?

I already had the RAM on hand. I didn't see the point of purchasing another 32 Gigs of RAM. Didn't expect I would have so much difficulty "under clocking" the RAM. The difference between 3600 and 3733 is negligible and the cost is not. Stick with the 3600 for best results.

I would not attempt to exceed any clock speeds that will not be uniform across the Ryzen 3000 series, if you want to mess with that stuff go for it. However, it's inviting another level of tweaking madness past an already difficult and time consuming process of establishing a stable overclock with AMD's current generation.

tangoseal is correct, the 3700X is truly the sweet spot for processors in the Ryzen 3000 series. His suggestion of the 5700XT is an excellent one. You can likely get one for around 400 (or under) US. It's a great card. If you want Ray Tracing the cards under the 2080Ti aren't going to cut it. It's a gimmick on anything but their top tier cards because maintaining a solid level of FPS in games is a joke on anything under the 2080Ti unless it's Quake or Minecraft with RTX enabled, and the 5700XT can pull off Ray Tracing in Minecraft at 40 FPS without dedicated hardware, the Nvidia cards will lead by 10-15 FPS. However, I don't think you're building this rig to play a 10-15 year old Quake and Minecraft... Take the money you save from the processor & Video Card and put it into the Mainboard if you so desire or save it for the next gen Ryzen 4000 series that is just around the corner.

 

[tangoseal]

Do you have more info about this?

Unfortunately no I do not.It seems that it was a leak found in a driver by a member out in the wild. nVidia is probably developing the function right now for a later release. It is a way to get, in theory, 100% dual or more GPU scaling because there is no alternate frame rendering, sharing of memory, etc... its just a straight up and straight down hey GPU1 render this checker and GPU render this checker and combine it altogether in the frame buffer of gpu1 and put it on screen. Guessing, not really sure how it works to be exact or when/if it will be released.

 

[Masfeo]

You are probably right, and I will probably end up going for a 3700x or 3800x. But the TR is not easy to pass on. I still have time to decide tho.

What I would like to know is how the whole PCIe thing works.

Does that mean that if I have a x570 MOBO (24lanes) I can place 2xGPU and, let's say, 3xNVME drives(18? lanes)?

 

[tangoseal]

You are probably right, and I will probably end up going for a 3700x or 3800x. But the TR is not easy to pass on. I still have time to decide tho.

What I would like to know is how the whole PCIe thing works.

It's a numbers game

You have 2 gpus in slots 1 and 3 and they will automatically drop to 8x. What's left is nvme or the other pcie slot.

The rest is just math.

Nvme x4 you can do 2 of those.

But dont buy dual gpus based on a hunch that nvidia might one day release checkerboard rendering. I shared that info because it may turn out that multiple gpus will be once again all the rave.

You mentioned 240hz. I too have one and I can tell you, any game engine capable of 240hz are all esports. My 5700xt could easily hit 240fps in those titles like cs go etc..

I'd get a 5700xt and be done with it.If it's just 240hz.

If you want Ray stuff well you HAVE to go with 2080ti. Everything else is a gimmick. AMD announced that RDNA will let them add ray tracing on a hardware level later. Maybe 5700xt will have full hardware level ray tracing soon.

Imo the ideal 240hz system with the best performance would be

3700x for compute advantage but close to 9900k in fps
9900k for fps advantage but less compute
16gb 3600mhz cl 18 tightened to 14 or 15.
Whatever nvme(s) you want.
2080ti used off the fsft subforum.

Wont get better than that

If you want hedt things get much simpler and far more expensive

3960x (my cpu)
32GB cl 18 3600 b die (my ram) quad channel
2080ti (also what I'm using)
All the NVME you can afford plus lanes left over

The rest is whatever makes you happy

Trust me when I say the 3960x can game and boy it sure can. Leaps and bounds over last gen.

 

[Krazy925]

It's a numbers game

You have 2 gpus in slots 1 and 3 and they will automatically drop to 8x. What's left is nvme or the other pcie slot.

The rest is just math.

Nvme x4 you can do 2 of those.

But dont buy dual gpus based on a hunch that nvidia might one day release checkerboard rendering. I shared that info because it may turn out that multiple gpus will be once again all the rave.

You mentioned 240hz. I too have one and I can tell you, any game engine capable of 240hz are all esports. My 5700xt could easily hit 240fps in those titles like cs go etc..

I'd get a 5700xt and be done with it.If it's just 240hz.

If you want Ray stuff well you HAVE to go with 2080ti. Everything else is a gimmick. AMD announced that RDNA will let them add ray tracing on a hardware level later. Maybe 5700xt will have full hardware level ray tracing soon.

Imo the ideal 240hz system with the best performance would be

3700x for compute advantage but close to 9900k in fps
9900k for fps advantage but less compute
16gb 3600mhz cl 18 tightened to 14 or 15.
Whatever nvme(s) you want.
2080ti used off the fsft subforum.

Wont get better than that

If you want hedt things get much simpler and far more expensive

3960x (my cpu)
32GB cl 18 3600 b die (my ram) quad channel
2080ti (also what I'm using)
All the NVME you can afford plus lanes left over

The rest is whatever makes you happy

Trust me when I say the 3960x can game and boy it sure can. Leaps and bounds over last gen.

Question about PCIE lanes in this example.

Does the 3700x have enough PCIE lanes for a 1x GPU/sound card/2x NVME.

By my count that puts you at 25 PCIE lanes. 16x for GPU/1x for soundcard/8x for NVME. is that incorrect?

 

[tangoseal]

Question about PCIE lanes in this example.

Does the 3700x have enough PCIE lanes for a 1x GPU/sound card/2x NVME.

By my count that puts you at 25 PCIE lanes. 16x for GPU/1x for soundcard/8x for NVME. is that incorrect?

Why do you need a sound card? Get an external USB sound setup. No lanes.

All ryzen 3000s have the same count of lanes. 24

To be honest it's a desktop platform. Your limited. You cant have 16x 1x and 4x 4x at same time. Your board will probably drop to 8x GPU when you install any pcie device in any other slot but the last one. My x570 dropped my GPU to 8x because I had a 4x 10gbit card in one of my slots and only 1 nvme at the time.

Something has to go. The sound card would be my thing to ditch. Use usb external dac/sound like a Creative g5. It can seriously push 600ohm cans hard. I have one and its fantastic and zero bus noise etc...or use the quite capable on board on higher boards.

I also have a Sennheiser gsx1000 external usb sound and its utterly amazing for gaming and movies.

If your just desperate for big IO and add in cards you're gonna have to bite the bullet and go x399/trx40/x299

 

[GalacticAC]

For those with 3800+ RAM: Could you post some aida64 mem tests showing bandwith and latency? If you could do the same in game mode to see difference, it would be great.

While I wouldn't bet on it, it is possible the overclock the Fclk to maintain 1:1 on higher bandwidth memory. Mine went to 1900 with a single click no problem.

Here's what I've got

 

[Krazy925]

Why do you need a sound card? Get an external USB sound setup. No lanes.

All ryzen 3000s have the same count of lanes. 24

To be honest it's a desktop platform. Your limited. You cant have 16x 1x and 4x 4x at same time. Your board will probably drop to 8x GPU when you install any pcie device in any other slot but the last one. My x570 dropped my GPU to 8x because I had a 4x 10gbit card in one of my slots and only 1 nvme at the time.

Something has to go. The sound card would be my thing to ditch. Use usb external dac/sound like a Creative g5. It can seriously push 600ohm cans hard. I have one and its fantastic and zero bus noise etc...or use the quite capable on board on higher boards.

I also have a Sennheiser gsx1000 external usb sound and its utterly amazing for gaming and movies.

If your just desperate for big IO and add in cards you're gonna have to bite the bullet and go x399/trx40/x299

The problem is also that the vive wireless requires an add in card that uses a 1x pcie lane.

I’m not desperate for big IO I just need 25 lanes. We’ve been stuck at 24 in the consumer space forever. I bit the bullet last time and went with x79. I’ll most likely have to do it again.

I’m definitely gonna check out that creative device but fell down the daunting wormhole of DACs and AMPs. It’s overwhelming.

 

[Masfeo]

While I wouldn't bet on it, it is possible the overclock the Fclk to maintain 1:1 on higher bandwidth memory. Mine went to 1900 with a single click no problem.

Here's what I've got

View attachment 205500

That is actually very nice, one of the best latencies I've seen so far for Zen2. Which MOBO are you using?

I've found a decent laptop at an afordable price, so I did buy it. It is this one (I got it for 850€ on another place). So now I have a little bit less money for the Desktop build; I'm looking at this right now:

Monitor: ViewSonic XG270 (240hz, IPS, 27") -> 500€
RAM: 4x8gb G.Skill NEO 3800 cl14 -> 605€
CPU: Ryzen 3700x -> 350€
MOBO: MSI Prestige X570 Creation -> 430€
GPU: RX 5700XT or 1080ti -> 450-600€
PSU: 200€
Case: 100€
Cooler: NZXT Kraken x61. 0€

It's a little bit over the budget and not complete yet. I guess I'll probably drop the RAM and get 3600 cl14 instead, and I'll look deeper into the selection of the MOBO (I just picked this one because it is on the QVL list for the RAM modules).