New Build - Advice Desired (!)

OrangeWolf

Gawd
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
884
I'd planned to build last year when I drove past a MicroCenter (~8 hours away) but I got worried about the difficulty of returns when I wasn't local. Since I built in 2011 I've upgraded the hard drives and the GPU but it's past time for a new overall build. I'd like to order a few parts tonight if the Newegg sale is still worth it for another 16 hours (according to their site), but we'll see.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Recording/editing videos, Photoshop, lots of web browsing, lots of office work, gaming
*Note - Gaming is NOT more important than the other things. I'm fine gaming on Medium settings even, so long as it runs smoothly.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Look, I'll be honest - I can afford whatever I want at this point. But I don't see a point in buying more computer than I have a use for. I'd like to keep it <$1500, preferably closer to $1k. I'll go higher (up to $2k) but not just because I could game on "Very High" instead of "High."

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.

Mississippi, USA

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

CPU, MoBo, GPU, RAM, Case, PSU, SSD, HD
If the CPU doesn't come with a stock cooler I'll also need a cooler. I'll buy monitors separately.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially
specific about the power supply. List make and model.
I have a 256 GB Samsung 850 Pro SSD that I bought in 2015 along with a 4 TB Toshiba I bought at the same time, I think it's this one. I'd like to reuse those if possible but I should probably get a new, larger SSD to go with them if I do. I could also repurpose them.

6) Will you be overclocking?

I doubt it - I don't know anything about it and my primary understanding is that it's likely to decrease the life of the parts. I've had this rig turned on almost 24/7 for almost 7 years (built Feb 2011). It still runs (mostly) fine. I intend to use the new one just as long - wouldn't overclocking when I don't know much about it make that harder? I'm not opposed, just I've never bothered with my 965 x4 BE.

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?

Current monitor set-up is 2x 1080p. I usually have either a movie/game/photoshop in one and an internet browser or Word open in the other. I'd like to go up to 1440p but I'm concerned that even with the 150% "make it easier to see what's on your screen" setting in Windows I will have trouble reading things at that resolution. My eyesight is atrocious, so I don't know.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

If I don't buy this week (which I'd like to pick up a few parts) it might be more like 3-4 weeks from now, when I have time off for Christmas.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.

I'd like USB3 and USB-C. UEFI would also be nice.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?

No but you don't need to include this in the price - I can get Win10 at a discount via work.

Currently I have... AMD Phenom x4 965 BE & Nvidia GTX 580, so I should hopefully get a nice upgrade boost regardless.

ROUGH DRAFT:
PC Hound Part List

CPU: AMD AMD Ryzen 7 1700X ($279.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASUS ROG STRIX B350-F GAMING ($102.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.SKILL 16GB (2 x 8GB) Ripjaws V Series ($199.98 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI Radeon RX 580 R580GX8 RX 580 GAMING X 8G ($304.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 750W FOCUS Plus 750 Gold SSR-750FX ($64.9 @ Newegg)
Storage: SAMSUNG 500GB 850 EVO MZ-75E500B/AM ($139.99 @ Amazon)
Storage #2: TOSHIBA 5TB X300 HDWE150XZSTA ($137.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Corsair Obsidian Series 750D ($149.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1,380.80
Price may include shipping, rebates, promotions, and tax
Generated by PC Hound



Notes about the above (please, advice desired!):

I feel like the 1700X is going to be better for all my non-gaming endeavors? But if I'm wrong there I'd be happy to pick up Coffee Lake. I'd prefer not to get Kaby Lake just because I'm biased to buying older generation hardware - but I could be convinced.

I wanted either a 1070 Ti or a AMD Vega 56, but I am finding it hard to justify the prices those damn things are running at currently. Is it worth it? I picked the 580 instead of the 1060 because of Freesync, but that's not a huge deal. All my games run fine on my GTX 580 (even the newest ones on Medium settings at 1080p) so I doubt I need a better card for that, but I'm not sure about everything else (esp if I bump up to 1440p). I don't mind waiting a few weeks on the GPU though if prices are likely to get back down to normal.

I need help picking out a Motherboard on short notice if I'm going to buy tonight. There are things on a MoBo that I don't know I'm going to want given that I'll probably use this computer for at least 6 years (I intend to upgrade the GPU at the halfway point after 2-3 years). Advice appreciated.

PSU I'd like at least Gold and fully modular.

I'm very attached to the Obsidian series of cases - I'll be buying from that series, though perhaps not the 750D.

mATX - I'd originally wanted the 350D b/c it's mATX (and OMG mATX would be so nice in the space I have) but I haven't priced out a build for mATX to see if I could get a decent MoBo for it. I'm also concerned about cooling because I live in Mississippi and it's hot and if I leave my computer active when I go to work I often turn down the AC to save money.

Any tips appreciated. I've only done three builds and there's always something I don't think of.
 
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Which part of Mississippi? I'm from Biloxi/Ocean Springs.

You need a cooler with that CPU. It doesn't come with one.

That GPU is okay for your use example, but IMHO a 1070 Ti is a better card for it's price. It's about $200 more, but you get a LOT more card for the money at 1080P gaming. Not only will you be able to run all your current games on the highest setting at 1080P right now, but any future games would most likely run very, very well until your next build as well.

That PSU, wattage wise, is overkill for your build. However, you most likely wont find a smaller ~600W unit that's better for a cheaper price anyway.
 
Hattiesburg. I think we've actually talked about that before? Not sure.

Good to know about the card - I am seriously tempted by the 1070 ti. I'm really not concerned about gaming though - is the card still worth it for other purposes like video editing and photoshop as well? I know it would be better but not sure how much. I know I don't need it for gaming (even if it'd be nice).

Any suggestions on things to get on a Motherboard these days other than USB-C? They're all going to have USB3 I assume. Not sure what else is likely to become important in the next 6-7 years I'll probably be using it.

Thanks!
 
If gaming isn't a big concern then don't bother spending the money on it.

Pretty sure that board has everything "desired" in modern motherboards. So you should be good.
 
Huh, do the onboard graphics on the B350 mobos work fine with Ryzen chips? I know sometimes 3200 RAM for example will work with Ryzen on those boards but not other AMD chips. That'd make it easier to sell/repurpose later if I could take the GPU out and have it still work... but I'm guessing it won't boot with Ryzen and the integrated graphics, it's probably only for the APU.

Leaning towards the 1600X now tbh. Not sure 1700X is $80 better.
 
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Huh, do the onboard graphics on the B350 mobos work fine with Ryzen chips? I know sometimes 3200 RAM for example will work with Ryzen on those boards but not other AMD chips. That'd make it easier to sell/repurpose later if I could take the GPU out and have it still work... but I'm guessing it won't boot with Ryzen and the integrated graphics, it's probably only for the APU.

Leaning towards the 1600X now tbh. Not sure 1700X is $80 better.

There is no onboard graphics on Ryzen CPUs, yet. You must have a GPU with current Ryzen AM4 processors.

Further, your tossup is this: you can get eight cores with Ryzen R7 CPUs- and I don't recommend less- or you can get six faster cores with the i7 8700(k). I will argue that the 8700k will age better for gaming over time, but your weighting for gaming isn't that high, so it's hard to argue for spending a little more on CPU and motherboard, if you can find good RAM for the Ryzen setup.

Also, PC Hound/PartPicker is trash. Can't find crap in terms of memory or video cards properly. And memory prices just... are.

So, my recommendations for Intel:
Intel i7 8700k $414
G.SKILL TridentZ Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) Timing 14-14-14-34 $223 Might as well get the nice stuff if you're gonna spend
ASRock Z370 Killer SLI/ac $149 Board I'm using, has everything you need, nothing you don't, great ratings, Intel LAN and Wifi

For AMD:
R7 1700 $299 No need to spend $50 more for the 1700X
ASRock Fatal1ty AB350 Gaming K4 $99 Cheaper option, no Wifi, Broadcom LAN vs. Intel, lower end audio
ASRock X370 Taichi $199 Less cheap option, Intel Wifi and LAN, nicer audio, also supports mGPU
Memory: Good luck finding good, fast, low-latency RAM for Ryzen that's not >$300/2x8GB kit...

Common:
Fractal Design Define R5 w/window $115-120 Sharp, easy to work in, acoustically dampened, configurable, with filters on all intake, I love mine in white (and nothing against Corsair)
Corsair H110i $121 280mm closed-loop cooler that's dead silent under normal usage. The R7 1700 has a cooler, which you could try first, though.

No change: the hard drives are not a big deal. Flash is still inflated, so getting more than you need for OS/Apps/Scratch isn't well advised, so a ~240-512GB drive is fine, and you'd might as well get a decent high-capacity spinner for data. And I heart Seasonic :).
 
Got a cheaper non-water cooler rec? The Hyper 212 is one I've used before but I've some negative stories about that one and some of the newer AM4 boards. Anyone have experience getting a cheap (<$30) air cooler onto an AM4 X370 or B350 board? I don't want to just trust they're compatible after some of what I've read.

And the RAM you linked for your intel build should work for Ryzen too shouldn't it? I know it says it's for Z170 platform but I just checked the specs (288pin) and then read some reviews, looks like they're using it for Ryzen and Intel both. And yeah - if I'm spending 200 anyway might as well.

Leaning heavily towards 1600x & this mobo after looking some more (and checking your recs out).
 
Got a cheaper non-water cooler rec? The Hyper 212 is one I've used before but I've some negative stories about that one and some of the newer AM4 boards. Anyone have experience getting a cheap (<$30) air cooler onto an AM4 X370 or B350 board? I don't want to just trust they're compatible after some of what I've read.

You can honestly use whatever you want so long as it comes with the appropriate mounting hardware; my main purpose when building is maximum performance and minimum noise within a budget, which is why I used the H115i on my 8700k. The closed-loop coolers are simply the most efficient way to get the heat out. Cold air in through filters, hot air out through radiators. Big radiators, big slow fans, essentially silent.

As for the Hyper 212, it's a fine cooler, but I suspect that it'll get noisy once you put a real load on eight AMD cores or six Intel cores.

And AM4 compatibility is the clincher: all of the nicer tower coolers, like Noctua, aren't compatible or require you to get an adapter from the manufacturer. Also, you're going to spend quite a bit more to get a tower cooler with two good, quiet fans (like Noctua).

And the RAM you linked for your intel build should work for Ryzen too shouldn't it? I just checked the specs and then read some reviews, looks like they're using it for Ryzen and Intel both. And yeah - if I'm spending 200 anyway might as well.

Potentially; here, I'll have to let you do your own research, simply because the market is so volatile. You'll likely be looking at something different when you're ready to buy, balancing what's gone on sale and what's gone out of stock (or come in stock) with what's proven to work.
 
Leaning heavily towards 1600x & this mobo after looking some more (and checking your recs out).

Nothing against the MSI board, but I strongly advise getting the eight-core part for longevity.

[I understand that the Intel part is six cores, but it both clocks higher and has higher performance per clock, so it's actually as fast as the top eight-core R7's in multithreading, and faster in gaming; the six-core R5's are slower in both]
 
Seconding either the R7 or coffee lake given the timeframe you are keeping this for. As for the Hyper 212 I had 2 installed on a 2p mobo running 12c/24t xeons at full load, granted they were open air but they were not loud. To counter the R5 recommendation, corsair do some acoustically dampened cases as well.

As for RAM I would look at this again once you have picked your mobo, If you go for Ryzen, once you have chosen the mobo carefully check the memory QVL list from the mobo maker so you have a list that you know works. Make sure you purchase exactly the model listed otherwise it may not work. GSkill and corsair seem to be the best but there are others as well.

If you are keeping the platform for 6-7 years personally I would lean towards the AMD setup, AM4 is upgradable until 2020 so 3 years down the road you should be able to drop a new CPU into your existing board if you want/need more performance. Not sure what intel are promising with lga 1151.
 
[just keeping the conversation going]

Seconding either the R7 or coffee lake given the timeframe you are keeping this for. As for the Hyper 212 I had 2 installed on a 2p mobo running 12c/24t xeons at full load, granted they were open air but they were not loud. To counter the R5 recommendation, corsair do some acoustically dampened cases as well.

It's a combination of dampening and filtering; parts that came out of my R3 after years of use are clean. It's wild. If Corsair offers the same thing, awesome! I just haven't paid attention to them, so I offered the alternative.

As for RAM I would look at this again once you have picked your mobo, If you go for Ryzen, once you have chosen the mobo carefully check the memory QVL list from the mobo maker so you have a list that you know works. Make sure you purchase exactly the model listed otherwise it may not work. GSkill and corsair seem to be the best but there are others as well.

The challenge here is that the QVL's aren't kept up to date with new releases, what works isn't limited by QVL, and what's on the QVL might be absurdly expensive or not available at all. RAM qualified specifically for Ryzen, especially the faster low-latency stuff that wrings the most performance out of it, is very difficult to source. Best advice is for the OP to ask for recommendations the day of purchase so that prices and availability can be weighed against ongoing compatibility testing by the community.

If you are keeping the platform for 6-7 years personally I would lean towards the AMD setup, AM4 is upgradable until 2020 so 3 years down the road you should be able to drop a new CPU into your existing board if you want/need more performance. Not sure what intel are promising with lga 1151.

The AM4 socket will likely be given at least one more revision, but toss a coin as to whether or not it will be worth it. The periods of time during which sockets lasted more than a generation or two, the CPUs that went into them were stagnant, or in AMD's case since the Core 2, uncompetitive upon release.

On the Intel side, we don't expect another release for Z370 (which is it's own version of LGA1151). However, unlike buying a slower processor and upgrading, if you're going to the top from the beginning (i7, R7), the need to upgrade in the two to three year period is severely diminished unless requirements change drastically or technology changes drastically. And if that's the case, you're not likely to be wanting to reuse a two or three year old motherboard.
 
Fair points, I thought QVL updating had gotten better on the AMD side recently, i'm sure Asus have revised a couple of theirs on occasion. If the community is making it easier then great.
 
Fair points, I thought QVL updating had gotten better on the AMD side recently, i'm sure Asus have revised a couple of theirs on occasion. If the community is making it easier then great.

Yeah- notice the OP's reply above; I didn't bother to read the reviews too deeply, as RAM for Intel just isn't hard. Stick it in, select XMP in BIOS, and if it doesn't work, it's defective.

But for AMD it's a completely different game, and the most current information is going to be corroborated user reports.
 
IdiotInCharge - Thanks! Not too concerned about noise. I live alone and my AC is louder than any dozen computer fans. My concern is compatibility - it's supposed to be compatible according to the company but I saw a few folks complaining about it. I'll double check before buying.

I ordered a 1600X for $190 from Newegg before their sale finished last night. I agree I'd have been better off with the 1700X or an Intel but at this point I think I'll plan on dropping in a higher end AM4 cpu into the motherboard in a few years if I don't build again. Nathan_P said much the same - unless something about my computer usage changes I should be fine doing that, and if it changes... well, I can build again instead. Despite having cash I'm really quite cheap - which might be why I have cash, in part at least, but I can afford it if needed.

Plan to watch for deals on everything else over the next 2 weeks - I have a holiday coming up the week after the 16th and I'd like to have all my parts together by then so I can build this thing.

Having trouble finding the QVL list - it should just be on the manufacturer's site somewhere, right? I'll keep looking if that's the right place.

You guys are the best - I'm still up for any other advice, but now that I've got one part I'm excited for the rest as I find deals (or else don't - OMFG @ RAM).
 
QVL's are usually on the download page for each motherboard. For asus its bring up your motherboard of choice, click on support, then click on cpu/memory support, choose memory/device support and it will bring up a link to the QVL list
 
Took me a while to find it, as it wasn't anywhere near where I expected it to be on this page:
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/X370-KRAIT-GAMING.html

But finally found it! In case anyone else is curious about an MSI mobo, here's where I found my information:
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/X370-KRAIT-GAMING#support-mem-2

If I purchase over 2400 speed I'll have to OC it to get it up to par, or that's how I read it at least, even though the motherboard officially supports it. Never done that but seems straightforward enough.

IdiotInCharge - your suggested RAM is on the list! :D
 
Well, you're going to have to OC if the XMP settings don't work right, but if the RAM is on the list, you have a good chance of having it just run like it should. Which would be awesome!
 
If noise isn't a concern you should join [H] in the WCG challenge this month. We need help beating China.
 
If noise isn't a concern you should join [H] in the WCG challenge this month. We need help beating China.
Got a link to some information on this?

On another note I have a x1600 Ryzen, a ATX MSI Krait gaming mobo, and an ASUS ROG 1070 Ti (I decided to splurge after all when I realized I could justify it as part of an upcoming work project). Gotta figure out a CPU fan that easy to install (seems that's an issue with half of them for Ryzen)... find some cheap RAM (or just decide that I have to pay more for RAM than I did the CPU or Mobo).

And how screwed up is that, that RAM costs more than my CPU or Mobo? In some cases as much as those combined? Eeesh.
 
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