New AMD ES GPU beats 2080Ti by 17% on OpenVR GPU Benchmark leaderboard

N4CR

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A small crumb none the less but one to stoke the fires of speculation. This is in line with many [H]'rs predictions of speed ballpark for big Navi.
Note that this benchmark can only be compared res to res.

ES is usually for characterisation by OEMs so at best 2-3 months or more before launch.
But will it be too little, too late with Ampere looming?

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Of note is the CPU is ES also - Zen3? And that this happened a few days after Lisa recognised that many were awaiting info or a leak on this card (and Zen 3), expecting something at CES. So a bone to the masses, perhaps?
 

DejaWiz

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Doubt it's an "intentional" leak. Grain of salt material until actual samples get shipped out for reviewers.
 

Dan_D

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That's also just one test. So we'll have to wait and see.
 
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N4CR

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Doubt it's an "intentional" leak. Grain of salt material until actual samples get shipped out for reviewers.
Indeed, we probably will never know, I just find the timing very coincidental after she basically addressed the reddit users whinging about such omissions directly.

That's also just one test. So we'll have to wait and see.
Indeed. Promising for VR but much more data is of course needed.
 

FrgMstr

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A small crumb none the less but one to stoke the fires of speculation. This is in line with many [H]'rs predictions of speed ballpark for big Navi.
Note that this benchmark can only be compared res to res.

ES is usually for characterisation by OEMs so at best 2-3 months or more before launch.
But will it be too little, too late with Ampere looming?

View attachment 214442

Of note is the CPU is ES also - Zen3? And that this happened a few days after Lisa recognised that many were awaiting info or a leak on this card (and Zen 3), expecting something at CES. So a bone to the masses, perhaps?
Source?
 
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A small crumb none the less but one to stoke the fires of speculation. This is in line with many [H]'rs predictions of speed ballpark for big Navi.
Note that this benchmark can only be compared res to res.

ES is usually for characterisation by OEMs so at best 2-3 months or more before launch.
But will it be too little, too late with Ampere looming?

View attachment 214442

Of note is the CPU is ES also - Zen3? And that this happened a few days after Lisa recognised that many were awaiting info or a leak on this card (and Zen 3), expecting something at CES. So a bone to the masses, perhaps?
If it's only 15 FPS faster than a 2080Ti... It's totally too little, too late. Unless they price it accordingly. I see AMD punching out this card for 800-1000 bucks while they can, and then Nvidia gut punching them a couple months later.

Only time will tell
 

Gideon

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If it's only 15 FPS faster than a 2080Ti... It's totally too little, too late. Unless they price it accordingly. I see AMD punching out this card for 800-1000 bucks while they can, and then Nvidia gut punching them a couple months later.

Only time will tell
I dont see Nvidia pushing out anything that spectacular for next generation, except maybe a much improved ray tracing engine. I expect raster performance to be a minimal uplift next generation from them.
 
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I dont see Nvidia pushing out anything that spectacular for next generation, except maybe a much improved ray tracing engine. I expect raster performance to be a minimal uplift next generation from them.
I'm pretty certain that they can do better than a 15 FPS uplift...

If Nvidia manages the 25% uplift they did last generation (on average) They would be sitting at around 110 FPS given this example. If they pull off 50%, which they have done in the past, they would be sitting at around 132 FPS. I don't see them delivering less that a 25% improvement in FPS... and that still beats this early display of AMD's Navi prowess. Nvidia's RTX implementation (Ray Tracing) is garbage, so they will release faster garbage? I don't buy cards for their novelty features like Ray Tracing, I buy them for raw performance.

I have always been a closet AMD fan but I buy the best hardware for the job, and AMD still doesn't have anything worth a damn for 4K ... The 2080Ti can barely handle 60 FPS at 4K without struggling (I play at max settings). I could care less about VR to be honest. If this new Card from AMD can do 60 FPS at 4K in all games, at maximum settings, for between 800-1000 bucks I am on board. If not, I'm going Nvidia because they can already (pretty much) do it.
 

dvsman

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It doesn't matter how much faster it is than the 2080ti or whether Nvidia will release a new card to beat it when it comes out. What matters to me / most people is how much? Depending on where the pricing puts them in the stack of cards, I can't say if it's a good deal or not.

If it performs as benched but costs waaaaay less, then bingo, it will still sell. Even if slower than the newest / latest from Nvidia which will likely still cost $1,000+
 

noko

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A carrot on a stick so to speak. If, indeed an "Engineering Sample for big Navi", I would expect the released version to have better performance in general. Just not enough information or substantiated. If we see several more benchmarks and so on that would be cool.
 

Gideon

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A carrot on a stick so to speak. If, indeed an "Engineering Sample for big Navi", I would expect the released version to have better performance in general. Just not enough information or substantiated. If we see several more benchmarks and so on that would be cool.
Like most things that seem like leaks, they may be a leak or something entirely different. Till we get more info it's like throwing darts in the dark.
 
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tybert7

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If it's only 15 FPS faster than a 2080Ti... It's totally too little, too late. Unless they price it accordingly. I see AMD punching out this card for 800-1000 bucks while they can, and then Nvidia gut punching them a couple months later.

Only time will tell

I think AMD would do much better selling this for 600-700 dollars. Target old 1080ti pricing, nvidia will overshoot this of course, but we don't know what size their ampere 7nm cards will be. With the 2000 series, the 2080ti is some massive brute forced 700+ mm2 die. So if they are only 600mm2 they may not need to price their highest end card up to the sky. So AMD would do much better to get 2080ti performance around 600 dollars.

btw, if my pricing sounds too cheap, that just shows you how out of whack gpu pricing has become.
 

chameleoneel

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Considering that a modded 5700XT is not too far off the mark since July, I don't see why AMD couldn't work up something this year. I mean, if they had really wanted to, they could have binned some 5700XT supers to run stock with performance similar to the modded cards. Albeit with huge cooling and huge power demands.

With a new product, they will have X months of refinement for power efficiency and architecture efficiency and should therefore easily hit the mark and definitely pass it even if it means another power hog.

I bet we see something competing with Ampere by early 2021. Based on all the info coming out about their roadmaps and how well R&D is going for both CPU and GPU-----I think we are only about 1 year away from AMD very nearly competing with Nvidia, if not out right competing.
 

deruberhanyok

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Indeed, we probably will never know, I just find the timing very coincidental after she basically addressed the reddit users whinging about such omissions directly.
it is definitely weird when someone addresses anything coming out of reddit.
 

chameleoneel

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it is definitely weird when someone addresses anything coming out of reddit.
I see it as AMD acknowledging who is carrying their buzz and buying their products. As mentioned in this thread and others, AMD still has a heck of a battle to fight with OEMs. But, enthusiast sales can change over night with a release of a good product.

Its internet forums like reddit, [H] and other places, which keep AMD alive. Event the people who bash AMD for yet again not beating Nvidia, create memes, or whatever; actually want AMD to be even better. Look at all the changes since Zen 2 and Navi. Intel is scrambling and Nvidia have added a whole bunch of features to their drivers. Its exciting. People wanna know what's next.
 

IdiotInCharge

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I dont see Nvidia pushing out anything that spectacular for next generation, except maybe a much improved ray tracing engine. I expect raster performance to be a minimal uplift next generation from them.
AMD burned their die shrink and fell short -- Nvidia typically boosts performance and efficiency significantly with die shrinks.

Short of a TSMC fabrication line taking a dump, Nvidia should be up to set more records all around.

actually want AMD to be even better.
More like, *please don't be ass* *please don't be ass* *please don't be ass*


And usually... damnit, it's ass.

So, AMD, please don't be ass this time!
 

N4CR

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I would suggest that is beyond being even nut-job theory.
When they respond directly to redditors having a moan, feeding them some crumbs a few days later isn't out of the question. It's certainly unusual but not implausible given the timing. There are no other AMD cards that fast so it has to be something new.
 

chameleoneel

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More like, *please don't be ass* *please don't be ass* *please don't be ass*


And usually... damnit, it's ass.

So, AMD, please don't be ass this time!
This is where I disagree with a lot of internet hot takes. "if it isn't better than the competition's best, then its embarassing".

On the contrary, AMD has been making huge strides in both CPU and GPU. A company in their position isn't not going to immediately rebound with a magic product. However, things are moving along pretty fast since Zen 1.

They didn't burn their die shrink. Zen 2 is basically on par with Intel in IPC and the chiplet design means AMD has 12 and 16 cores, where Intel has 10.

And Navi may not have had a part last July, for the absolute high end......they are absolutely solid in the midrange and mid-high. Forcing Nvidia to re-adjust and add features. The die shrink is part of what made that possible.
 

IdiotInCharge

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This is where I disagree with a lot of internet hot takes. "if it isn't better than the competition's best, then its embarassing".
But with AMD, it isn't better than their competition's second best, two years later.

They didn't burn their die shrink. Zen 2 is basically on par with Intel in IPC and the chiplet design means AMD has 12 and 16 cores, where Intel has 10.
We're talking about GPUs here. They're two years behind.

.they are absolutely solid in the midrange and mid-high
...lower mid-range...

Forcing Nvidia to re-adjust and add features.
AMD hasn't forced Nvidia to do anything.

The die shrink is part of what made that possible.
They ran a die shrink and are still using more power for less performance and they lack ray tracing hardware. The die shrink to 7nm has helped AMD continue to make products worth selling, but that's really it. Remember that Nvidia announced their Super lineup, and suddenly Navi was US$100 cheaper.

Forced, anyone?
 

Gideon

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AMD burned their die shrink and fell short -- Nvidia typically boosts performance and efficiency significantly with die shrinks.

Short of a TSMC fabrication line taking a dump, Nvidia should be up to set more records all around.
That is just Hyperbole. Die shrink worked just fine for AMD.
 

Gideon

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No hyperbole behind AMD's 7nm Navi failing to surpass Nvidia's 12nm Turing in performance / watt while lacking hardware ray tracing ;)
That has more to do with architecture design then anything to do with the move to 7nm. So no your wrong.
 

Gideon

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Which is why I'm correct in saying that they squandered the die shrink :D
No you should have stated the architecture is less efficient, not the process node. Vega was also 7nm and Navi 7nm is far more efficient so argument they wasted it is silly and wrong.

XEYUMsk6n24M56Q7D4TvCX-650-80.png

AAfzTxhxai3rALUj7AvEHg-650-80.png
 

IdiotInCharge

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You mean they took out all the compute hardware and power usage went down?

you don't say

Meanwhile, they're still less power efficient than Nvidia, despite the new node.
 

chameleoneel

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But with AMD, it isn't better than their competition's second best, two years later.



We're talking about GPUs here. They're two years behind.



...lower mid-range...



AMD hasn't forced Nvidia to do anything.



They ran a die shrink and are still using more power for less performance and they lack ray tracing hardware. The die shrink to 7nm has helped AMD continue to make products worth selling, but that's really it. Remember that Nvidia announced their Super lineup, and suddenly Navi was US$100 cheaper.

Forced, anyone?
At launch, according to PC Gamer's 11 game average, 5700XT is within spitting distance of 2070 super for $100+ less. And a 2080 isn't a whole lot better than a 2070 super, for way more money. And looking at recent reviews, such as thefpsreview.com, the 5700XT has matured to be virtually on par with the 2070 super. "To our surprise, in all the games except one, the reference AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT lined up in performance to the GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER!" - November 2019

Power usage of 5700XT at launch, its basically identical to the 2070 super. (5700XT average a handful of watts more).

Nvidia's recent driver features additions are absolutely a response to AMD. And then AMD responded to their response. and.....its great. Its all great.
 
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IdiotInCharge

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Power usage of 5700XT at launch, its basically identical to the 2070 super. (5700XT average a handful of watts more).
This is literally the point: AMD is on 7nm, yet using more power for less features than Nvidia on 12nm.


The further point is this: Nvidia still has a die-shrunk part coming.

More performance, higher efficiency, AMD in the dust (again / still).


I wish AMD would go after Nvidia's top-end. I believe that they have the technology to do it. They just don't.
 

chameleoneel

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This is literally the point: AMD is on 7nm, yet using more power for less features than Nvidia on 12nm.


The further point is this: Nvidia still has a die-shrunk part coming.

More performance, higher efficiency, AMD in the dust (again / still).
No, its the same power for the same performance.

Indeed, Nvidia's architecture is very efficient, allowing them that power usage on a larger node. But so what. As a consumer, a 5700XT and 2070 super perform the same and use the same power. And 5700XT costs less.


Nividia has a node shrink and architecture refinements on the rise. Which bodes well for them. However, AMD does still have architecture refinements. And their roadmaps are pretty aggressive right now. I'm betting that Nvidia still retains the top crown at the high end, with Ampere. But, I think that AMD will remain not too far behind, as they are now. And their R&D will close the gap sometime next year. I'm feeling like they may even squeeze out an Ampere competitor, before spring 2021. Even if it means an aggressive product with no concern for power usage.
 
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