![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
New 5900X rig suddenly running sluggish (need help identifying & solving)
- Thread starter JYeager11
- Start date
No Dan, literally everything is slow. The bootups, shutdowns, reboots, apps loading, even the dialogs that appear when you right-click an icon on your desktop.. browsers, everything... only internet speeds seem unaffected. It happened after a Kernel Security Check Failure BSOD. I'd been living with 1-2 of these BSODs a week since the rig was built, they seem to coincide with groups of 18 simultaneous EapHost errors in the logs. I guess the 50th BSOD broke something. Zero degradation until the break, though. Blazing fast speeds for 6 months prior, up until that last BSOD (and the CHKDSK /F that followed, which reported zero problem in those same logs). It's like a switch was flipped.
I'm just hoping someone can confirm that screenshot looks good now, and we can put the BIOS matter to rest.
Y'all have no idea what a big accomplishment that was for this n00b, but I'm trying to hold of celebrations until confirmation.
Last edited:
To add to what has been stated, if after a clean reinstall of everything your system still performs sluggishly, then you may have a classic case of a GPU that's woefully mismatched to the CPU. The GTX 750 Ti was fine in its era, but it's now woefully inadequate for the vast majority of CPUs available today. A severe mismatch in relative performance between the GPU and the CPU will not only cause slowdowns in GPU-accelerated performance but may also cause a major bottleneck to everyday performance even with the GPU not being utilized at all.
If that happens, it will likely be because Windows 11 is infinitely more demanding on GPU resources than Windows 10 had been for 6 months straight. The GTX 750 Ti has been performing even better than I hoped, I'm surprised too. When I Googled it, I found this possible explanation : seems that unlike almost every other NVIDIA card of that line and era, this one "utilizes a first-generation Maxwell GPU (specifically the GM107), which succeeded Kepler". As a result, the card continues to enjoy regular Game Ready driver updates to this day.
For how much longer? Not sure, probably not very long; but since I use my PC mostly for Photoshop work (absolute zero games) the GTX 750 Ti can more than carry what little load it's being asked to carry, which is pretty much exclusively 2D. The plan was always to wait out the scarcity mark-ups before upgrading this final piece of the rig's puzzle later.
Last edited:
Interesting or suspicious? Do you think there's even a *chance* the BIOS found a way to apply the builder's old settings on top of the new, updated v170? I was told that wouldn't be possible even if I wanted it to be (because I kinda did at first, remember?) So unless "XMP Profile 1" is actually a preset of those old settings, I'm not sure how I could've imported them. All I did after flashing up to v170 was turn on XMP, and that's when I saw those numbers go from 2400 to 3600 instantly (because flashing up to v170 first brought them down to 2400).I'd still lock SoC voltage, but that's interesting that it went there itself
Actually, your CPU is likely doing most of the work in Photoshop. The GTX 750 Ti may be doing acceleration, but I'm not sure how much its doing versus the CPU. There were issues with the 2080 Ti in Photoshop and after turning it off, I picked up a lot of performance and I didn't notice much of a difference between running CPU only and having GPU acceleration with faster cards. However, my 2080 Ti was slow as hell in Photoshop.If that happens, it will likely be because Windows 11 is infinitely more demanding on GPU resources than Windows 10 had been for 6 months straight. The GTX 750 Ti has been performing even better than I hoped, I'm surprised too. When I Googled it, I found this possible explanation : seems that unlike almost every other NVIDIA card of that line and era, this one "utilizes a first-generation Maxwell GPU (specifically the GM107), which succeeded Kepler". As a result, the card continues to enjoy regular Game Ready driver updates to this day.
For how much longer? Not sure, probably not very long; but since I use my PC mostly for Photoshop work (absolute zero games) the GTX 750 Ti can more than carry what little load it's being asked to carry, which is pretty much exclusively 2D. The plan was always to wait out the scarcity mark-ups before upgrading this final piece of the rig's puzzle later.
To the question "Is there ANY chance that I somehow invoked my old manual saved settings from v160 when I 1) Flashed from v160 to v170, 2) Rebooted back in BIOS and noticed the RAM speed went down to 2xxxx-something, 3) Turned on XMP Profile 1 and watching that speed instantly boost back up to 3600 with all the correct timings?" a fellow online MSI Tomahawk user with the same BIOS responded :
"XMP settings are stored on the RAM sticks and under normal conditions you cant change these. CMOS reset isnt necessary, just load default settings in the bios menu and adjust your own stuff, like enable xmp."
I'm not 100% fluent in tech-ese but he seems to suggest that XMP takes over all settings, and you can't customize with it on. At least not with the order I did things. I guess I can consider the BIOS issues resolved (I'll know when I never get another Kernel Security Check Failure again).
Again, there were no performance issues for 6 months straight : Photoshop and everything else on this rig were blazing fast, even with this GTX 750 Ti, for 12-hour workdays and sometimes overnight as well. As recently as last Thursday morning before that last BSOD, I could not even ASK for more performance from this rig. It was performing above and beyond, with zero degradation half a year of intense usage in.
That's why it's pointless trying to troubleshoot this from the perspective that the GPU is at fault for the sluggishness unless you have a theory why it started happening at the last BSOD / CHKDSK (like someone flipped a switch). There's "Before Thursday" speeds, and "Since Thursday" speeds. Both are very different, but very consistent (meaning I've only known 2 speeds on this thing, blazing and sluggish).
I don't think there's any 2 ways about it, something broke last Thursday and hasn't been fixed. We're all hoping it's Windows corruption and today's Win 11 clean install will bring me back to the performance I was enjoying throughout 2021. The fact that I get that blazing speed back in SAFE MODE suggests that this is NOT a permanent hardware issue, and those speeds will return on a fresh uncorrupted Windows (with updated gpu/audio/chipset/ethernet drivers). The only thing I hesitate to try before the reset is CHKDSK /R on the drive, because I no longer believe it's a drive issue.
A simple Windows Restore probably would have fixed all of this if someone had thought to recommend that last Thursday, before updating all these drivers made it so my last 3 system restore points were all created in the last week. I have no restore points before the big crash to revert to, so we can't try it now.
"XMP settings are stored on the RAM sticks and under normal conditions you cant change these. CMOS reset isnt necessary, just load default settings in the bios menu and adjust your own stuff, like enable xmp."
I'm not 100% fluent in tech-ese
but he seems to suggest that XMP takes over all settings, and you can't customize with it on. At least not with the order I did things. I guess I can consider the BIOS issues resolved (I'll know when I never get another Kernel Security Check Failure again).Again, there were no performance issues for 6 months straight : Photoshop and everything else on this rig were blazing fast, even with this GTX 750 Ti, for 12-hour workdays and sometimes overnight as well. As recently as last Thursday morning before that last BSOD, I could not even ASK for more performance from this rig. It was performing above and beyond, with zero degradation half a year of intense usage in.
That's why it's pointless trying to troubleshoot this from the perspective that the GPU is at fault for the sluggishness unless you have a theory why it started happening at the last BSOD / CHKDSK (like someone flipped a switch). There's "Before Thursday" speeds, and "Since Thursday" speeds. Both are very different, but very consistent (meaning I've only known 2 speeds on this thing, blazing and sluggish).
I don't think there's any 2 ways about it, something broke last Thursday and hasn't been fixed. We're all hoping it's Windows corruption and today's Win 11 clean install will bring me back to the performance I was enjoying throughout 2021. The fact that I get that blazing speed back in SAFE MODE suggests that this is NOT a permanent hardware issue, and those speeds will return on a fresh uncorrupted Windows (with updated gpu/audio/chipset/ethernet drivers). The only thing I hesitate to try before the reset is CHKDSK /R on the drive, because I no longer believe it's a drive issue.
A simple Windows Restore probably would have fixed all of this if someone had thought to recommend that last Thursday, before updating all these drivers made it so my last 3 system restore points were all created in the last week. I have no restore points before the big crash to revert to, so we can't try it now.
Last edited:
You can customize ~parts~ but not other parts. Voltages - yes. Command timing - maybe, never tried honestly. Timings - no. Speed - no.To the question "Is there ANY chance that I somehow invoked my old manual saved settings from v160 when I 1) Flashed from v160 to v170, 2) Rebooted back in BIOS and noticed the RAM speed went down to 2xxxx-something, 3) Turned on XMP Profile 1 and watching that speed instantly boost back up to 3600 with all the correct timings?" a fellow online MSI Tomahawk user with the same BIOS responded :
"XMP settings are stored on the RAM sticks and under normal conditions you cant change these. CMOS reset isnt necessary, just load default settings in the bios menu and adjust your own stuff, like enable xmp."
I'm not 100% fluent in tech-ese
No... Windows system restore doesn't work like that. It reverts ~certain~ changes (eg, this driver was updated to version y), but it's not a backup, and it's not tracking all the windows files. For that, you'd need an actual full backup. You generally can use it if a windows update broke something (revert to the prior update), or a new driver crashes things (revert to the old driver). It won't fix corruption, unless the update itself was corrupt.
Settings saved via the profile system in the BIOS are not compatible with different BIOS revisions. A profile saved on v160 will not work on v170. When you update the CMOS/BIOS, it will keep your old settings typically. However, it is recommended that you reload the BIOS default settings (usually listed as optimized defaults). The reason for this is due to the fact that BIOS values and ranges for settings sometimes change from one BIOS revision to the next. Furthermore, sometimes settings are added or deleted entirely from one version to the next. Reloading the defaults ensures that all the settings being used are correct for the version of the BIOS you are using.To the question "Is there ANY chance that I somehow invoked my old manual saved settings from v160 when I 1) Flashed from v160 to v170, 2) Rebooted back in BIOS and noticed the RAM speed went down to 2xxxx-something, 3) Turned on XMP Profile 1 and watching that speed instantly boost back up to 3600 with all the correct timings?" a fellow online MSI Tomahawk user with the same BIOS responded :
"XMP settings are stored on the RAM sticks and under normal conditions you cant change these. CMOS reset isnt necessary, just load default settings in the bios menu and adjust your own stuff, like enable xmp."
I'm not 100% fluent in tech-ese
Again, there were no performance issues for 6 months straight : Photoshop and everything else on this rig were blazing fast, even with this GTX 750 Ti, for 12-hour workdays and sometimes overnight as well. As recently as last Thursday morning before that last BSOD, I could not even ASK for more performance from this rig. It was performing above and beyond, with zero degradation half a year of intense usage in.
That's why it's pointless trying to troubleshoot this from the perspective that the GPU is at fault for the sluggishness unless you have a theory why it started happening at the last BSOD / CHKDSK (like someone flipped a switch). There's "Before Thursday" speeds, and "Since Thursday" speeds. Both are very different, but very consistent (meaning I've only known 2 speeds on this thing, blazing and sluggish).
I don't think there's any 2 ways about it, something broke last Thursday and hasn't been fixed. We're all hoping it's Windows corruption and today's Win 11 clean install will bring me back to the performance I was enjoying throughout 2021. The fact that I get that blazing speed back in SAFE MODE suggests that this is NOT a permanent hardware issue, and those speeds will return on a fresh uncorrupted Windows (with updated gpu/audio/chipset/ethernet drivers). The only thing I hesitate to try before the reset is CHKDSK /R on the drive, because I no longer believe it's a drive issue.
XMP settings do not effect all memory settings. It covers the general timings but not the sub-timings. The sub-timings are stored on the modules, but most motherboards do not use them. These values are set automatically by the motherboard. However, some motherboards do give you the option to load the extended XMP settings and configure these automatically as well. ASUS boards do this as an example.
Adobe Photoshop is updated a lot. I was trucking along with a Ryzen 9 3950X and a RTX 2080 Ti when all of the sudden Photoshop ran like ass. Something in an update caused me specific issues that I traced to GPU acceleration. I disabled that and my problems were resolved. It's not just a slow GPU that can cause these issues. It can very well happen as a result of software updates to Photoshop. This problem plagued my system even after OS re-installs and driver updates until I replaced the GPU with an RTX 3090 FE. I'm not saying this is what you are experiencing. I'm simply pointing out that you can't rule out GPU acceleration as a cause for issues with Photoshop. The only reason I'd rule it out is due to statements you've made that suggest this issue affects more than Photoshop.
And no, I don't think you have a hardware issue. However, memory settings can negatively impact performance on Ryzen systems, but the main reason we've been addressing that is in an effort to solve your issues with BSOD's. You can load the JEDEC memory profile and run it at 2133MHz and it wouldn't explain the slowness you've described.
Restore points do not work like that as Lopoetve stated. We didn't recommend that because it is very unlikely that would fix any of your issues.
Are y
Again, these issues coincide almost to-the-minute with last Thursday's BSOD (the last one I got that wasn't purposely triggered), unless it was the CHKDSK /F that I ran as soon as I was back in Windows (but I no longer suspect the CHKDSK now that I found the log : it completed with no errors found). Also found a string of 18 simultaneous EapHost errors lining up with the timings of the last two BSOD events (the same 18 errors appearing in the same order every time).
Last Friday -- one day after this sluggishness began -- I purposely triggered one final BSOD as a test to confirm the VPN was part of the problem, by simply connecting to SurfShark app and downloading something. The BSOD happened within 3s of the download starting. That's when I uninstalled SurfShark VPN software on the spot, and I have not had a single BSOD since.
A good test would be to re-install it and try downloading or streaming something, but it would be on this current sluggish OS. If I'm gonna test that software again, it'll be on the new OS. And I'm in no hurry to try; especially now that I've just tried the SurfShark browser extension instead. Not sure if it tunnels the same way the full app does, but I tried forcing a BSOD on it last night and couldn't. Streams and downloads just fine for hours.
Is this good fortune because it's the extension and not the full app, or because we fixed the RAM issues with the BIOS reset? Hard to tell for now.
This 100% contradicts what other MSI users told me, though, which is that the settings would be wiped when I update to v170 (and they seemingly were, given the speed was reset back down to 2xxx when I logged back into BIOS after flashing, and before turning XMP on).
So are you saying you're still not confident I did it right despite the screenshot? Then tell me what to do so we can put this BIOS matter to rest once and for all. I was just hoping to leave well enough alone after this small victory.
I can help rule out a Photoshop update, as there had been no recent updates to the suite. Also, PHOTOSHOP RUNS JUST FINE IN SAFE MODE, even now, and at the same blazing speeds as before the crash. We're talking 4 seconds vs over a minute. And it's the same still-supported video card that performed admirably for 6 months straight until the crash.
Again, these issues coincide almost to-the-minute with last Thursday's BSOD (the last one I got that wasn't purposely triggered), unless it was the CHKDSK /F that I ran as soon as I was back in Windows (but I no longer suspect the CHKDSK now that I found the log : it completed with no errors found). Also found a string of 18 simultaneous EapHost errors lining up with the timings of the last two BSOD events (the same 18 errors appearing in the same order every time).
Last Friday -- one day after this sluggishness began -- I purposely triggered one final BSOD as a test to confirm the VPN was part of the problem, by simply connecting to SurfShark app and downloading something. The BSOD happened within 3s of the download starting. That's when I uninstalled SurfShark VPN software on the spot, and I have not had a single BSOD since.
A good test would be to re-install it and try downloading or streaming something, but it would be on this current sluggish OS. If I'm gonna test that software again, it'll be on the new OS. And I'm in no hurry to try; especially now that I've just tried the SurfShark browser extension instead. Not sure if it tunnels the same way the full app does, but I tried forcing a BSOD on it last night and couldn't. Streams and downloads just fine for hours.
Is this good fortune because it's the extension and not the full app, or because we fixed the RAM issues with the BIOS reset? Hard to tell for now.
But a corrupt Windows installation might. That has been the group's theory for a while now, and it seems to be holding.
Last edited:
No, I didn't say that.Are y
This 100% contradicts what other MSI users told me, though, which is that the settings would be wiped when I update to v170 (and they seemingly were, given the speed was reset back down to 2xxx when I logged back into BIOS after flashing, and before turning XMP on).
So are you saying you're still not confident I did it right despite the screenshot? Then tell me what to do so we can put this BIOS matter to rest once and for all. I was just hoping to leave well enough alone after this small victory.
You are missing the point. I'm not saying this is or isn't the case. I'm simply stating that GPU acceleration could have been fine one day and not the next without other changes. Your problem with Photoshop is similar to something I've experienced in the past. However, if your slowness isn't limited to Photoshop then it doesn't matter. That's not the issue. I only brought it up initially not being clear on whether or not the slowness was limited to Photoshop.
Just reinstall Windows already.
Oh, my bad; I was unaware GPU acceleration could be fine one day and not the next (without other changes). That still wouldn't apply here, as the latency issues are literally from power-up to power-down, but it's good to know.
EDIT: CrystalDiskMark Portable confirms our theories; Safe Mode benchmarks are 30x faster on the same SSD. Google reveals my version of the firmware had long-term cache issues, I get the sense one of those BSOD events pushed it over the edge. Proceeding with reformat now, and then immediately updating firmware to a version that addresses these cache issues. Once that's done, and with BIOS now set up correctly, I'm not expecting anymore BSODs, either. See you on the other side! (Unless everything explodes, that would suck.)
Last edited:
It is done!
Drive re-formatted + Windows 11 clean-installed.
Can now confirm it was a corrupt Windows installation. Re-installing Windows was always going to work, as we suspected all along; but troubleshooting the issue helped fix things that likely led to the BSODs that triggered this. At the first sign of one, I'm troubleshooting it ASAP; but I don't anticipate those issues returning (knocks on wood).
Off to update a buncha drivers!
Thanks, everyone!
Drive re-formatted + Windows 11 clean-installed.
Can now confirm it was a corrupt Windows installation. Re-installing Windows was always going to work, as we suspected all along; but troubleshooting the issue helped fix things that likely led to the BSODs that triggered this. At the first sign of one, I'm troubleshooting it ASAP; but I don't anticipate those issues returning (knocks on wood).
- R/W Speeds in Sluggish OS : 225/225'ish (not a typo)
- R/W Speeds in Safe Mode (same sluggish OS) : 7000/5000'ish
- R/W Speeds after Clean Windows Installation : 7000/5000'ish
Off to update a buncha drivers!
Thanks, everyone!
funkydmunky
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2008
- Messages
- 3,868
Oh no shit. How many pages of you ignoring advice?
Anyone forcing you to read 'em?
Damn, we came so close to making it without assholery.
Given how long it takes me to re-install software and configure windows after a reinstall, I 100% understand why he did that as an absolute last resort. Given it was fine in safe mode, I think we could have fixed it without a reformat, but I didn't see the thread earlier to contribute. Op - I had an odd issue like this once that took me ages to figure out - turned out to be my Corsair h100i.
Mchart
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2004
- Messages
- 6,552
True, but he could have at least used a live boot of some OS to verify first.. He didn't even bother to do that. It would have saved him so much headache..
If it's painful for him to do this he should generate and store system images from time to time and practice recovering from them.