New 5900X build, is this a normal idle temp?

1Wolf

Limp Gawd
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Brand new 5900X build with a 360 NZXT Kraken Z73 AIO and 12 total fans, ASUS Crosshair VIII Dark Hero motherboard.

I just finished assembling it and fired it up for the very first time to make sure everything worked before I start cable management. It made it through POST just fine and I went into the BIOS. It doesn't even have windows installed yet and I was just about to shut it down and start cable management when I happened to look on the "Monitor" tab of the BIOS.

Says the CPU temp is 54 Degrees C. The NZXT Kraken Z73 display shows "Liquid Temp" at 29 Degrees.

Is that normal for a 5900X in the BIOS?

When I google normal temps for a 5900X most folks are reporting what they get in Windows at Idle. So I'm wondering if maybe what my BIOS is reporting is different? Even my google results are all over the map with some reporting temps in the mid fifties are normal and others saying that low forties is normal. Whatever the case, I'm sure they are pulling that out of windows and mine is coming from the BIOS "monitor" page so maybe its way off.

You'll have to forgive me as its been a good 10 years since I built a system and my last build was an Intel 3770K and I'd expect to see Mid-to-High twenties reported by the BIOS "Monitor" page.

Maybe I screwed something up? Overtightened the mounting screws on the cooler? Didn't tighten them enough? (I was afraid to go more than just barely finger tight). I was very careful to use a "cross" pattern when gently tightening them down. I'm not sure what I may have done...if anything. Or maybe its just normal and thats the way these AMD 5900X run. This is my first AMD CPU.

I haven't touched or tweaked anything or even updated the BIOS as I'm not even familiar with the BIOS yet. I didn't use aftermarket thermal paste or anything and just went with whatever NZXT puts on there so I don't think I could have screwed up the thermal paste application. I even started to get worried that maybe there was a little piece of cellophane over the thermal pad that maybe I forgot to remove. Fortunately, I have a second unopened NZXT Z73 here (because I've got a 2nd build I have to do as well) and opened that one to check. Just the piece of hard plastic covering the cooler...no cellophane or anything over the thermal pad. I even very carefully touched the edge of the thermal pad with a knife to make sure it was not a piece of cellophane that I just couldn't see.

If I need to tear it apart again, now is the time before I get everything cable managed. However, I REALLY would hate to remove that cooler and fiddle with what I'd already had installed unless I knew for sure something was wrong.

Any advice would sure be appreciated.

These were taken just seconds after booting into the BIOS. Room temp is about 25C.
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Enigma

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The cpu is not at idle in the bios. It is under load. Compare your temps when you are at the desktop. I think that you will find that your idle temps on the desktop will be lower.... I see nothing to worry about. For instance with my custom loop my temps are 15-20c cooler on the desktop.
 

primetime

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The cpu is not at idle in the bios. It is under load. Compare your temps when you are at the desktop. I think that you will find that your idle temps on the desktop will be lower.... I see nothing to worry about. For instance with my custom loop my temps are 15-20c cooler on the desktop.
agreed....need to measure temps during desktop usage as bios will always show high temps
 
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Enigma

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So, under load is 1.465v? Imagine if it were overclocked..................Probably 3.145v.

Anyhow, looks like the pump is running slow also, 1,036 RPM and fans are probably running slow, the ones on the RAD that is. Time to tweak those settings.
The main reason that the temps are higher in the bios is because there are no drivers to control the state of the processor. So in the bios the voltage/frequency are unchecked and at full speed. Once the OS loads the drivers take over and the frequency/voltage drop., Along with the temps mind you. The pump speed is a little slow but you really can compare an AIO to a custom loop now can you.

Not sure about your voltage comment above.... The boost clock on that chip automatically overclocks the cpu from the factory. Per AMD spec that chip would die an instant death at 3.145v 1.465v on that chip is nothing for short duration on a ryzen setup while using PBO.
 

1Wolf

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Just wanted to say thanks so much!!! Thats a load off my mind. I put myself in a holding pattern in my build because I didn't want to start cable management and start tidying things up if something was horribly wrong or if I'd screwed it up.

Thanks!!!!! :)
 

Enigma

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It seems excessive to be at 1.465v and why would it be under load? What kind of BIOS has a CPU running so hot under "UEFI" menu.........

The NZXT pump speed is 2,100 RPM, my pump is over 4,753+ RPM, why would I compare an integrated pump vs a stand-alone pump? Nor will compare integrated sound vs discrete sound. Or integrated GPU vs video car. Now, will I?

I'm in the middle of my setup, my CPU (10700KF) in the BIOS is at 25C and 1.039v. Sure, one is an 8C/16T and the other a 12C/24T, but according to your "logic", my CPU should be running a lot hotter, since that the voltage and frequency are unchecked, right? Or is that an instance that Intel is not vulnerable to?

It is not my "logic" it is a known fact email any motherboard manufacturer on the amd side of things and they will say the same thing. PBO on the amd side says that voltage is fine so it is okay. Look at the amd data sheet. I cant speak for an intel setup have not run one in a few years. Bios does not run drivers for the components as it is not an operating system therefore the pstate and the cstate for the cpu are not setup to drop the voltage/frequency and as such the cpu runs at full speed and voltage in the bios and when you load into the os the drivers and power management kick in and drop the voltage/frequency and as such the temps for the cpu drop.

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jmilcher

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It’s only anecdotal but my last Intel system was a 8700k and I noticed the same behavior. I also remember my 6700k doing this.

my 2700x, 3900x, and 5800x all also have higher temps in BIOS. As soon as I boot into the OS, temps are lower. And I am using a air cooler.
 

Enigma

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Here are some comparison shots for you this is a 2700x @100% auto settings in bios, custom loop (dual420 rads, d5 pump running on setting 4, raystorm pro cpu block, fans set on auto scaling with water temp)

Ambient temp is 24C

1. First is a shot in the bios before water temps in loop have a chance to equalize on a cold loop.

2. Idle on desktop with the same settings

3.Quick prime test

4. IBT with the same settings

Notice the idle temp difference between desktop and bios... same settings nothing changed.
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idle desktop PBO.png
Load Prime 95.png
ibt.png
 
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evhvis

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Temps are slightly on the high side for bios, but not by enough that I would worry. Bios is rendering on the CPU so it will cause a major increase in CPU temp comapred to idle. Keep in mind that "CPU package" is the one ryzen master uses and AMD refers to in their slides so it is more relevant than CPU temp field in the ASUS bios. Under load the CPU field, supplied by ASUS, under-reports by 10-12 degrees in my system compared to die temps (CPU package, CCDs etc.) so don't look at it, use package temp.

All temps I am refering to here are package temps and on PB only, no PBO. These are numbers what I would expect to see with an AIO, but it could be slightly better or slightly worse.
Idle temps: It is normal for idle temp to be in the 35-40 range in windows, depending on how many background processes you use. E.g. the lighting service from asus pulls 1-2% CPU constantly so that will drive your temps up. A few degrees above 40 isn't anything to worry about either.
Max heat - prime 95 with 4 thread small FFT: Mid to high 80s is nothing out of the ordinary, but would expect lower 80s.
24 thread load with cinebench over 20 minutes: Expect to see an average package temp somewhere between 65 and 75 degrees in the last 10 minutes.
Games: Most will sit in the 50s or 60s, but some can reach upper 70s if you run a high end GPU and max framerates. CPU temp here will vary a lot on framerate your system can achieve, but it should be rare that you hit the mid 80s.

The CCDs are so low on the CPU so an offset mounting towards the bottom often helps a few degrees on most AIOs as it gives you more finstack over the hotest areas.
 
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1Wolf

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Thanks again for all the info and the guidelines. That will help immensely to be able to refer back to this thread as reference once I get windows installed and can run some benchmarks. I may end up having to revive this thread or start a new thread if those temps end up being a problem after all so that I can get some ideas from you on what I should do about it or how I can troubleshoot it. For now though, I'll just continue building the system and get windows installed. Hopefully everything is ok.
 

1Wolf

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This is slightly off topic but I figured I'd try asking here rather than start a new thread. My ASUS Crosshair VIII Dark Hero motherboard has a AIO_Pump header and a CPU_Fan header. The motherboard manual says to use either for an AIO pump so I plugged the breakout cable of my NZXT into the AIO_Pump header and just have the extra set of fans that I have mounted to the radiator in the CPU_Fan header.

Is that backwards? Should I be plugging the NZXT Z73 pump breakout cable into the CPU_Fan header instead? Does it make a difference? The motherboard manual didn't make any mention of differences other than that you could use either.
 

evhvis

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This is slightly off topic but I figured I'd try asking here rather than start a new thread. My ASUS Crosshair VIII Dark Hero motherboard has a AIO_Pump header and a CPU_Fan header. The motherboard manual says to use either for an AIO pump so I plugged the breakout cable of my NZXT into the AIO_Pump header and just have the extra set of fans that I have mounted to the radiator in the CPU_Fan header.

Is that backwards? Should I be plugging the NZXT Z73 pump breakout cable into the CPU_Fan header instead? Does it make a difference? The motherboard manual didn't make any mention of differences other than that you could use either.
I always plug my pump speed monitoring cable into the CPU header in case the pump fails. Most fail safes are on the CPU fan header, not sure if the AIO pump header has fail safes built in. I use high-amp fan header for my radiator fans (one of the two 3A headers). Keep in mind that the CPU header is 1A so if your pump pulls power from the fanheader, then you may have to use one of the high amp headers. The AIO manual should tell you if it pulls more than 1A for the pump through the fan header cable, but most AIOs and pumps pull power from SATA or Molex connector.
 
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1Wolf

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Thanks evhvis. Thats a good idea and that actually helped me a bit.

The 3-pin breakout cable from the NZXT pump was on the AIO_Pump header on the motherboard so, as you mentioned, I moved it to the CPU_Fan header. The first set of fans are plugged into the breakout cable splitter per the NZXT instructions. I have a second set of fans in push-pull that I've now plugged into the CPU_Opt header. Once I did this my temps did drop from 56 down to 52. I think I'll take your advice and leave that breakout cable plugged into the CPU_Fan header and just leave that AIO_Pump header empty. Better temps AND better fail protection as you mentioned. I'm not sure why plugging it into the AIO_Pump header was giving me worse temps.

Seeing as how I've done my cable management but still haven't buttoned up the case yet, I'm thinking that I might just go ahead and remove the cooler, clean off the NZXT pre-applied thermal paste, apply my own Noctua NT-H2 that I've got on hand, then remount the cooler.

I've been searching, researching, and reading the BIOS reported temps of others with similar setups and most seem to get somewhere in the neighborhood of 48. I'm at 52. So, as was said earlier in this thread, that might be viewed as slightly high for BIOS so maybe I'll just go ahead and reapply thermal paste and remount now because I know once I get this thing buttoned up and on my wife's desk I'm not going to want to do it then. Maybe thats the best plan.
 
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1Wolf

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Just as an update. I was hoping I could ask you guys a couple more questions...

So I pulled the cooler and very carefully followed the instructions to remove the thermal paste from the CPU and the face of the cooler. I used Arctic Silver Thermal Material remover and then just some straight alcohol. The Arctic Silver Thermal Interface removal stuff worked much better than the isopropyl alcohol. Once I had everything squeaky clean I used the "wipes" that came with the NT-H2 kit as their YouTube videos instructed. I then carefully applied the NT-H2 in a 5-dot pattern like the video on their YouTube channel described. I'd never done it before so I fear I may have used too much. It was stickier stuff than I expected.

So I remounted everything, fired it back up, and I think the temps actually got worse by a degree or two....lol. I left it run for a bit to see if that made a difference and the temps would largely bounce in the BIOS between 52-56.

Fearing that maybe I used too much NT-H2, while I still had it on my bench I decided to just try it one more time. So I again pulled the cooler and cleaned everything as above. One thing I noticed though was that the face of the cooler plate had alot of fine scratches. Is this ok? Please take a look at the pic below and let me know if that is alright? Ignore the "cloudy" appearance as I was still in the process of wiping it down. I fear that my lint-free cloth I used to wipe it off may have left some fine scratches. I know some guys used to lap their cold plate and I was never [H] enough to do that so I assume a shiney smooth plate is important. On the other hand, I remember that some air coolers I'd used in the past actually had an almost "file like" surface where there were a series of fine ridges. So maybe the little scratches are unimportant.

In the picture, you'll also notice a couple little white "dots" at the center of the cold plate. These are dark spots or maybe even "pits" in the face of the cooler plate that were hiding beneath the stock thermal pad. They don't come off, and I couldn't scrape one off with a fingernail. I could just 'barely' feel it as an imperfection in the metal. I'm not sure if that cooler plate is "bad" or there even is such a thing. Forgive my ignorance here as I'm learning :)

I'm glad I pulled the cooler the 2nd time though as it did appear that I applied too much. More than I had expected had squeezed out and it was a bit of a mess to clean up. I hope to do better the third time.

Also, I included a picture of my third and hopefully final NT-H2 application. That looked identical to the pictures I've seen online so I'm hoping that is the right amount?

I've just booted it up just a bit ago and its been running about 15 minutes in the BIOS. Unfortunately the temps just seem to sit right at 54 degrees. Of anything it looks like my efforts made it worse and not better.

Unless anyone here has any other advice I guess I'll just have to button it up and assume I'm not going to be able to do any better.

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thebufenator

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When you pulled the cooler after the first re paste, was there an even spread of goop?

As long as you have goo making contact over the whole surface you'll be fine. Gamers nexus has done a video or two on this. Biggest thing that you can likely mess up is the pump speed. AIO headset greens to go full speed, cpu header might need to be manually set.
 

evhvis

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I usually do thin spread with a tiny bit more than needed. Slightly too much is fine and way too much will also be fine temp wise, but messy. Too little will cause problems as it may not cover the entire IHS. The CPU-cooler will squeeze out the excess, but it may take several thermal cycles before it is optimal. I do have high pressure mount on most of my coolers though so that helps with getting a very thin layer with excess paste. Would either spread it or just mount it. It looks like it should be enough to cover the entire IHS once the cooler pressure does its work. Just use the computer for a few days and if you are nervous about coverage then open it up and check the pattern. On most of my coolers there is only a thing film on each surface and excess is squeezed out to the sides when I remove the cooler, but it will depend on the cooler and how flat the surfaces are.

Swapping pastes won't give you huge decreases in temps. Swapping from a good paste, like NT-H1, to the best non-conductive pastes will generally give you 1-2 degrees maybe 3 with a power hungry CPU with a high end cooling solution. NT-H1 will generally be about the same or 1 degree better than what comes on pre-applied to most AIOs and NT-H2 will probably be about 1 degree better than NT-H1 with an AIO.

Keep in mind that your CPU temp will vary with water temp so you will see higher temps in bios after the PC has been on for a while. Most AIO pumps are fairly weak so they generally need to run at 70-80% or higher to be effective. Not sure how your pump-speed regulation works, but if it is from motherboard PWM then make sure it doesn't get slowed down too much from fan speed regulation. Wouldn't worry too much about the bios temps though as it isn't a consistent load and yours isn't more than a few degrees hotter than I would expect from an AIO.

The marks on the cooler is strange. Were they there when you wiped it of the first time? If the cooldplate is very uneeven then it will impact cooling performance, but I doubt the minor marks will have too much of an impact. You can always check the flatness against the light by putting something that is thin and very flat over it, at a 90 degree angle, and checking how much light comes through between the surfaces. A blade that you would use in a utility/box cutter knife would work fine.
 
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1Wolf

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When you pulled the cooler after the first re paste, was there an even spread of goop?

As long as you have goo making contact over the whole surface you'll be fine. Gamers nexus has done a video or two on this. Biggest thing that you can likely mess up is the pump speed. AIO headset greens to go full speed, cpu header might need to be manually set.

Yup. I'd say so. If I was thinking I would have taken a photo. There had been enough from my prior application that it it had come just a bit out the sides. It wasn't like squeezing out like crazy and running across the motherboard...it was just a little. I did watch that Gamers Nexus video though. After watching that video I wouldn't have worried too much about using "too much" but when my temps seemed absolutely no better than the stock thermal paste, and actually a bit worse, I was concerned that maybe I did use too much.

I usually do thin spread with a tiny bit more than needed. Slightly too much is fine and way too much will also be fine temp wise, but messy. Too little will cause problems as it may not cover the entire IHS. The CPU-cooler will squeeze out the excess, but it may take several thermal cycles before it is optimal. I do have high pressure mount on most of my coolers though so that helps with getting a very thin layer with excess paste. Would either spread it or just mount it. It looks like it should be enough to cover the entire IHS once the cooler pressure does its work. Just use the computer for a few days and if you are nervous about coverage then open it up and check the pattern. On most of my coolers there is only a thing film on each surface and excess is squeezed out to the sides when I remove the cooler, but it will depend on the cooler and how flat the surfaces are.

Swapping pastes won't give you huge decreases in temps. Swapping from a good paste, like NT-H1, to the best non-conductive pastes will generally give you 1-2 degrees maybe 3 with a power hungry CPU with a high end cooling solution. NT-H1 will generally be about the same or 1 degree better than what comes on pre-applied to most AIOs and NT-H2 will probably be about 1 degree better than NT-H1 with an AIO.

Keep in mind that your CPU temp will vary with water temp so you will see higher temps in bios after the PC has been on for a while. Most AIO pumps are fairly weak so they generally need to run at 70-80% or higher to be effective. Not sure how your pump-speed regulation works, but if it is from motherboard PWM then make sure it doesn't get slowed down too much from fan speed regulation. Wouldn't worry too much about the bios temps though as it isn't a consistent load and yours isn't more than a few degrees hotter than I would expect from an AIO.

The marks on the cooler is strange. Were they there when you wiped it of the first time? If the cooldplate is very uneeven then it will impact cooling performance, but I doubt the minor marks will have too much of an impact. You can always check the flatness against the light by putting something that is thin and very flat over it, at a 90 degree angle, and checking how much light comes through between the surfaces. A blade that you would use in a utility/box cutter knife would work fine.

Thanks Evhvis. Interestingly enough, when I pulled the cooler off the first time (after it had been mounted in the stock thermal paste) my temps at that point were averaging around 52-53 in the bios. The thermal paste from the stock pad was definitely NOT even and was definitely NOT covering the whole heat spreader.

However, after remounting the cooler with Noctual NT-H2, and letting the BIOS run through roughly an equivalent amount of time and performing a roughly equivalent amount of thermal cycles as before...my average temp was around 53-54. I think it actually went up. This is why I feared I used too much. When I pulled the cooler the second time, it was as I described above. Maybe just a little too much. The second time used NT-H2 and was maybe 20-30% too much but resulted in what appeared to be an even coating over the whole heat spreader with a little "squeeze out". Yet, temps a smidge higher. So the Noctua NT-H2 with an even spread and slightly too much gave me just a smidge higher temps than uneven, kinda thick, kinda hard and flakey, stock thermal paste. Although for a few degrees difference, in the BIOS, is not nearly any sort of "controlled" way of measuring.

The third mounting, which was with the amounts of NT-H2 in the pics above, has worked out about the same so far. Average temps in BIOS around 53-55 or so. I've got windows installed now and, while I haven't stressed the CPU or done any benchmarking yet, the idle temps in windows range from 38 at the low end up to 49....and tend to hover around 43-46 most of the time.

As far as your questions about the cooler. Yeah...I thought it was strange too. That was my first time using an NZXT cooler. I'd always used Corsair cooler before so I was kinda surprised when the cold plate looked that way. After your opinion about thinking the scratches probably don't matter....I didn't bother to pull the cooler a fourth time. I thought about pulling it and checking it against the perfectly flat steel surface of the tables of my cabinet saw and a light as you described. In the end, I just left it and installed windows. The amount of work required in pulling it and cleaning it yet again...the juice just didn't seem worth the squeeze. However, if as I get through getting windows set up and configured and do some benchmarking with some more reliable and meaningful temperatures that I can post....if you guys think that my temps on that are stupid high....then I'll probably have to put the patient back on the operating table and go in again ;)
 

drutman

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I tend to keep it simple after 30 years in an applied scientific field.
Anytime I OC for fun or build a engineering system I let it run all day and do what I need the computer to do workload wise i.e. XRD crystallography applications, If the temps stay under 85 C I do not fret over it. Also Intel has a white paper explaining how inaccurate microchip temp sensors are at idle, they become more accurate as they approach Tmax.
 
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