Netrunner 19.01 Blackbird Linux

Discussion in 'Linux/BSD/Free Systems' started by CAD4466HK, Jan 15, 2019.

  1. CAD4466HK

    CAD4466HK Gawd

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    One of my clients contacted me today, asking if I would wipe their W764 install and install this for them.
    I know nothing about Linux besides the fact I know nothing about it. :D

    My client was told that this was designed to be a replacement for W7 and that it should be no problem for a previous Windows user to master.......

    I'm thinking this isn't quite true. or is it?

    This is the link they sent me;

    https://betanews.com/2019/01/14/netrunner-blackbird-linux-win7/
     
  2. modi123

    modi123 [H]ardness Supreme

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  3. CAD4466HK

    CAD4466HK Gawd

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  4. leezard

    leezard [H]ardness Supreme

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    it is designed to look and feel like W7, but it is still Linux and there will be differences and a learning curve. how much of a curve depends on the user. If they use "windows only" software it may not run as well in wine on linux. If it is just an email and inernet user they shouldnt have any issues.
     
  5. CAD4466HK

    CAD4466HK Gawd

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    She is an Office, Adobe and FB user who raises Great Danes, that also needs a bit of software called Pedigree to keep track of her dog's papers and buyers. I'm worried about that software not being available on Linux.
     
  6. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    She's not really the kind of person suited to Linux. Office isn't so much of a problem, people can usually adapt to an alternate product assuming they aren't making massive Excel xlsx spreadsheets with complicated macro's, but the fact she uses Adobe products (unless it's just Adobe Reader) and uses specialized (Pedigree) software could be an issue - Although, in my experience these sorts of packages made by smaller developers usually install just fine under Wine. Perhaps set up a spare PC for you if you have one and give it a go?
     
  7. CAD4466HK

    CAD4466HK Gawd

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    Oh I thought about doing just that for her, lol. She does use Excel and Fireworks a lot. I think I will just set up a beater with it installed and let her play around with it. She wants off of 7 due to support ending, but at the same time she refuses to go to 8 or 10. She's a handful.

    Thanks for spelling it out for me.
     
  8. Tiberian

    Tiberian DILLIGAFuck

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    "Microsoft is killing Windows 7, so you should switch to Netrunner 19.01 'Blackbird' Linux distro now!"

    Thanks, I haven't laughed so hard in a while, I really needed that gut buster laughter there I just recovered from. :D

    As for this distro, it's just Linux, it's nothing special, some pretty UI and some pretty icons, but obviously it's not Windows 7 and would never be mistaken for it by anyone that has a clue about Windows 7... or Linux for that matter. If it works for some folks, so be it, but honestly Windows 7 will continue to get working patches and security updates for a bit longer than Microsoft is willing to publicly admit just yet.

    Think... 2023... and when it finally does get announced, remember this post. :)
     
  9. CAD4466HK

    CAD4466HK Gawd

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    My pleasure, I do what I can. :p

    Trust me, I've told her many a time that she can continue using 7 for a few more years, but her uneducated grandchildren know best and the customer is always right smh.

    When I set up this beater with Blackbird on it, I expect her to blow up my phone asking "How in the hell do I use this?!?" I then will promptly referrer her to the grand kids that sent her the link.
     
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  10. Tiberian

    Tiberian DILLIGAFuck

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    Yep, if the grand kids know so much, that's her source for support unless she's willing to pay you for the hourly cost of doing it yourself. :D
     
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  11. DogsofJune

    DogsofJune [H]ard|Gawd

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    It’s not really all that difficult to use Linux. My ma is in her 60’s and doesn’t have much issue. And she isn’t a FB, e-mail casual user either.

    Honestly, use Win 7 as long as they can, then think about options. Tell the grand kids to mind some business someplace else.
     
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  12. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    Well...They are killing off Windows 7 in 12 months time, at which time no one will receive security updates anymore unless they pay for them. It isn't totally out of the question to get used to an alternative now, in the lead up, if you think that's going to be an issue - I would hope that a lack of security updates would be an issue no matter where anyone's biases lie!

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsforbusiness/end-of-windows-7-support
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
  13. modi123

    modi123 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Is her name Jo by chance?

    2ad76ce9-6b48-47bc-a1c7-b57f04df4540_screenshot.jpg
     
  14. Tiberian

    Tiberian DILLIGAFuck

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    I'm well aware of what everyone believes is going to happen next January, I'm simply saying that it's not going to happen the way people believe it's going to happen, and Windows 7 will see patches and security updates through at least mid 2022.

    It is possible that Microsoft will alter the plans they have on the boards right now that aren't public knowledge, but in the past when this kind of situation came up they provided extended support and there's no reason to think they won't do it again because the business clients that they depend upon are going to demand it.

    But we'll see what happens later this year. My betting money says 2022. ;)
     
  15. Frobozz

    Frobozz [H]ard|Gawd

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    7 is already blocking updates if it doesn't approve of your CPU, they've been telegraphing its EOL schedule for a while, they've been making moaning noises about how painful it is for them to maintain... IMO, they want it gone.

    I'm betting it gets the Windows XP treatment. If you're big enough to negotiate ongoing updates while you finish up migrating, they'll come up with a price for you. If something comes out to turn all Win7 boxes into a botnet, they'll be good sports and release a patch.
    The only un-scheduled gesture of "good will" that I could see is they could restart the Free Upgrade campaign again to close out the year.


    ----
    Re: the OP
    "the customer is always right" applies, so you may just give it a go, install it and let it (the laptop and customer) sort itself out. If you were wanting to throw some input into the project to encourage success, you'll need to figure out what the customer's pain points are with migrating to Windows 10. If they're just averse to change, then expect this experiment to not fly very far. If they're against where Microsoft is taking the product and just want to try something new, then it may have more success. Try to set expectations to be like you would switching to a Mac or Chromebook. If they expect it to be Windows, they'll be disappointed.

    With that, I haven't heard much about Netrunner in social media, or local circles. It looks to be Ubuntu based with the KDE desktop. I would probably go for a better known distribution that gets you to about the same place. KDE Neon is worth a look. Made by the KDE project, the desktop environment is continuously updated and the core is Ubuntu long term support based. You'll get updated desktop features as they come out and have a stable base.
    Another would be Kubuntu. basically following the release cadence of Ubuntu with the version of KDE that comes out at the time of OS version release. You'll get a consistent desktop and core experience until you upgrade major versions.
     
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  16. CAD4466HK

    CAD4466HK Gawd

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    Lol, she wishes she looked that spiffy.
     
  17. DeathFromBelow

    DeathFromBelow [H]ardness Supreme

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    If she wants to try Linux start with Ubuntu 18.04 LTS or 18.10 rather than some random distro. It's the most popular distro, stuff usually 'just works' and there's plenty of info online to help you get started. It should handle all of her hardware and document/PDF/web browsing needs just fine out of the box. You can download VLC in the Ubuntu Software Center to cover any audio/video playback needs.

    My mom is 65 and uses Ubuntu. She occasionally runs Windows XP in VirtualBox (also in the Software Center) to run some ancient software for an old computerized sewing machine.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  18. CAD4466HK

    CAD4466HK Gawd

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    I appreciate all the help guys and to be clear, this is a one time thing for a very eccentric client. Being as I have no knowledge with Linux, I don't see me doing this again because of support issues. Hell I taught myself how to work on Mac's a little over a year ago (very basic things), I've always been PC centric with my business, but I'm willing to learn if I have to.

    The next time I think about loading Linux up, it will be for myself, so I can be the one encountering the issues at 2am.

    Thanks again, and I will report back with how things went with this client.
     
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  19. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    Well if you have "clients" take some time and learn about Linux anyway. Its the future.

    But blackbird ? never heard of it. Forget that noise.

    If you are serious about setting Linux up for a client. Ubuntu / Centos (RHEL - if your talking an clients with servers and not just a few machines) / Suse (or SLES again if they are large enough). Those are your options imo. Take some time and learn about the major Linux distros yourself... its good to know no matter what. At some point you'll run into someones Linux server or something... or have to remote into a cloud or web server for someone.

    For the dog breeder. Explain to her that the windows alike Linux distros are all going to suck... and any 100% Linux consultant would complete agree with that. Linux is not windows... and no matter how much X or Y distro wants to make it look like windows and act like windows and fool the average barely computer literate user that its windows. It won't be, and disappointment will follow. One of my biggest issues with the general Linux community... is the projects that try and replace windows. Why the heck so many people are trying to replicate one of the worst operating systems in history boggles my mind. Linux is best when its not trying to be windows... and instead playing to the strengths of Linux.

    As others have have already said. This client is really a windows client... and should probably stay that way. The software you mention would likely run just fine under Linux... via wine. Looking at their web site it sounds like its 32 bit and 64bit and supports xp right up to win 10... which means it likely would run fine probably uses pretty standard APIs. But you would have to make sure you setup a proper 64 bit wine bottle to run the newest version. Anyway its possible... Adobe fireworks should run just in fine under wine as well I mean it hasn't been updated since 2013 and all. Really if she was to move to Linux you would want her using native software. (I won't ask whya dog breeder started using adobes web vector fireworks thing).

    Long story short... my suggestion is install Ubuntu yourself. Learn a bit about gnome desktop. For your client fire up a loaner box for a week or so with Ubuntu Gnome desktop... Libre Office, Gimp, Inkscape (or whatever else makes sense... I get that she could be doing 20 different things with fireworks) if she is just editing a few pictures for her clients something like gimp might be fine, but their are other super easy to use completely free Linux options like Pinta or showphoto or digikam or even Krita. There are a few low cost options like Pixeluvo as well which for around 30 bucks takes care of a lot of peoples needs.(that one has Linux and Windows versions)

    After you use Linux awhile yourself... you'll probably realize a lot of smaller clients can use Linux with zero issue... and even convert completely to OSS software with things like Libre, Gimp, Thunderbird ect ect. It is in no way harder to support the windows. I have found the opposite is true. No more support calls cause Bob the moron salesman downloaded some virus laden porn, or Carl the moronic owner tried to install new drivers for the USB stick full of porn that Bob gave him. The key is knowing anything specific they have will run fine.... and dealing with a bit of teaching. IMO when I supported windows I spent most of my time locking systems down, and making most users machines basically as dumb as possible, power up -> Log in -> click on X Y OR Z and that is it. Linux makes that much easier... no BS virus scanners needed, no hoop jumping to make sure Bob and Carl can't plug USB sticks full of porn in at all, ect ect. lol
     
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  20. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    Like ChadD says, stick to the major distributions if you want to succeed. Small specialist distros are good for personal use but for anything larger, be conservative. Oh, and I would definitely install Ubuntu Mate instead of the default Gnome.
     
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  21. CAD4466HK

    CAD4466HK Gawd

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    I've always wanted to play around with Linux, but it is more of a want than a need. Since I started my business in 2004, I can count on one hand how many clients asked if I worked on Mac's, and this is the first time I've been asked about Linux. The majority of my clientele is residential and maybe 10% is business based, ( 2 condo owners, 3 insurance underwriters, and 7 Curves women's gym locations. Which are all Windows based).

    I never knew where to start or how to begin with a distro. Sure I've read through tutorials and the like, but it's like going from a beginner to a novice all in one paragraph, like they assume you already have some knowledge of Linux. But I am starting to feel the itch to expand my knowledge, especially when a Linux thread pops up on the Front page news. Once I get some more time to myself, I will delve deeper into the mystery that is Linux.

    Thanks for the pointers.
     
  22. CAD4466HK

    CAD4466HK Gawd

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    Update:

    Well after about 30min of usage (her words), she refuses to have anything else to do with Linux. In fact, I also let her play around on a laptop I had laying around with 8.1 on it, and she is willing to "upgrade" to 8.1 after updates for 7 stop coming in.

    So after paying me for my time and profusely apologizing for insisting that I hook her up with Linux, this saga has come to an end with both parties content.

    Thanks to everyone that responded to this thread and you might see me again in the Linux forum soon, to get some tips on Mint (recommended by many) for myself.
     
  23. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    Went pretty much the way everyone figured. lol

    Its not that "average" people can't use Linux, it just wasn't really a solution for your client. Have fun in the future. 8.1 is already out of mainstream support. Think its extended security updates end in 2023. Which means at that point she might as well just pay the MS windows 7 update tax. (and don't tell her but MS has added most of the telemetry to Win7 as well if you have been keeping it up to date for her) Really its windows 10 or leave the MS pool. In which case her options are buying a Mac, or using Linux. Hey if you really want a laugh you could always get her a legit quote on Windows 10 LTSB or something. ;) IME small business clients either decide Linux is worth giving another shot, or a bit of telemetry isn't so bad when you get them a MS price on one or two licences. lol (and if she decides ok I'll pay them... I guess everyone is happy anyway)

    Hope you give LInux a spin. Mint is a decent place to start. Its a polished distro. Most people that really get hooked on Linux move on... but its a great place to cut your teeth.
     
  24. gigatexal

    gigatexal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Your clients are smart enough to know what Linux is, what this distro is, but not keen enough to install it? Or they’re too busy making real money to have enough left over to pay someone else to do it?
     
  25. CAD4466HK

    CAD4466HK Gawd

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    I keep her up to date being as she doesn't care about Microsoft's fuckery, and I already have told her about 8.1's support, which is why I put upgrade in quotes. I feel the transition from 8.1 to 10 shouldn't be that big of a deal to her versus going from 7 to 10.

    I will definitely be giving Mint a try just as soon as the tax time rush ends, this is the time for mass upgrades/builds for me.
     
  26. CAD4466HK

    CAD4466HK Gawd

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    She had no clue what it was, if you had read the thread, you would have known that her grandchildren sent her the link and were the ones that talked her into it. But you are also right on them being lazy for doing shit for themselves. You pay me, I will do it, within reason.
     
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  27. DogsofJune

    DogsofJune [H]ard|Gawd

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    Well, at least she gave it a try. 30 min? That's like a day and a half in dog years. Got to applaud the effort....
     
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  28. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    I forced my mother to linux after having to fix/clean her Windows for the umptieth time. She was mad for a few days but after I set her website quick links and support for flash and quicksilver web players she started using the system just fine. Now she's on her 3rd linux computer. I did the same thing to my in-laws for the same reason.