Netgear RAX50 with no antennas

[GotNoRice]

I was able to get a Netgear RAX50, but with one catch, it has no antennas.

Since it appears to use a standard connector, I figured I can just get large dual-band antennas and put them on there. I was looking at these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/141619939495 Any reason to believe that they wouldn't work?

One thing that gives me pause, is that the RAX50 apparently comes stock with two different kinds of antennas, labeled for the rear and sides:


This seems odd. My only guess is that since it's only 2x2 on 2.4Ghz, and 4x4 on 5Ghz, that two of the antennas are dual band and two are 5Ghz only. If that is the case, then 4 dual-band antennas should work, right?

For me, this RAX50 will replace a RAX40 in my living room, and then the RAX40 will replace a much older WNDR4500 (old dual-band 802.11n) on the other side of the house. The WNDR4500 will then be retired. I just hope that the RAX50 with the large antennas will be at least as good as the RAX40 was; it would be a real shame if it ended up being a downgrade.

 

[SamirD]

If I was in your shoes, I'd find some genuine used RAX50 antennas versus some new ebay antennas that could be some fake ish...

If you want to get something new like what you've found on ebay, better to buy direct from a real company like this one I found in a quick search: https://www.data-alliance.net/ There's a lot of companies that handle security and wifi hotspot setups and carry antennas that they use in their setups and these will be more trustworthy than what's on ebay for sure.

But keep in mind that Netgear probably did do some extensive testing before they made their antennas, so out of almost everything, they would probably be the best.

 

[GotNoRice]

If I was in your shoes, I'd find some genuine used RAX50 antennas versus some new ebay antennas that could be some fake ish...

If you want to get something new like what you've found on ebay, better to buy direct from a real company like this one I found in a quick search: https://www.data-alliance.net/ There's a lot of companies that handle security and wifi hotspot setups and carry antennas that they use in their setups and these will be more trustworthy than what's on ebay for sure.

Yeah I am always very skeptical any time I buy anything on eBay. But ultimately eBay is just the middle-man, it's the seller who I'm actually buying from. I always heavily scrutinize feedback and buy only from those who have 100% or very close to 100% positive feedback. Even having only 97% or 98% positive feedback is a huge red-flag for me. The seller I linked has 99.8% positive and seems pretty legit based on other feedback. Plus these are 12dBi antennas which seems to be the biggest I can find.

But keep in mind that Netgear probably did do some extensive testing before they made their antennas, so out of almost everything, they would probably be the best.

Yeah, but Netgear's goals weren't necessarily the same as my goals. They were trying to design a product to a certain price point, and one that looked fancy and not obnoxious. The stock antennas are only 7dBi, not super long, and go along with the StarWars-ish theme of the model. The 12dBi antennas I linked are ~18 inches long, and not exactly "aesthetically pleasing". It would be easy to imagine those antennas causing many wives to give the unit an immediate veto if they were what was included stock. Whereas I don't care if it looks obnoxious as long as it gives me a bit of extra range. In a way, I'm trying to use the missing antennas as an opportunity, to hopefully end up with a unit that actually performs better than stock due to the large antennas.

 

[SamirD]

Yeah I am always very skeptical any time I buy anything on eBay. But ultimately eBay is just the middle-man, it's the seller who I'm actually buying from. I always heavily scrutinize feedback and buy only from those who have 100% or very close to 100% positive feedback. Even having only 97% or 98% positive feedback is a huge red-flag for me. The seller I linked has 99.8% positive and seems pretty legit based on other feedback. Plus these are 12dBi antennas which seems to be the biggest I can find.

Yeah, but Netgear's goals weren't necessarily the same as my goals. They were trying to design a product to a certain price point, and one that looked fancy and not obnoxious. The stock antennas are only 7dBi, not super long, and go along with the StarWars-ish theme of the model. The 12dBi antennas I linked are ~18 inches long, and not exactly "aesthetically pleasing". It would be easy to imagine those antennas causing many wives to give the unit an immediate veto if they were what was included stock. Whereas I don't care if it looks obnoxious as long as it gives me a bit of extra range. In a way, I'm trying to use the missing antennas as an opportunity, to hopefully end up with a unit that actually performs better than stock due to the large antennas.

Except that the sellers on ebay basically hide behind ebay and take money and run. Hence why ebay is also known as fleabay because of the flea market like environment. Specs and such bring in the orders and bait and switch is what makes the money. Most people won't know the difference between an 8db and 12db and for the few that do, they'll do a quick refund and be on their way.

A company that sells upgraded antennas to professionals who definitely need and use these for expanded range will very quickly 'cut through the crap' and any shady stuff won't fly hence why most stand alone companies won't try the same bait and switch which is common on ebay, et al.

That makes sense and if that's what you're looking to do, definitely get some legit antennas and see what happens. The problem with stronger antennas ime is that they may not necessarily do what you want since they also increase noise. Case in point is this 3ft long outdoor antenna that was installed at one of our hotels to 'boost' signal and while it did about 10db, it only did on up or downstream which in the end didn't really do the job well since it was only helping on one path. Swapping out antennas was a big thing in the early days of routers, but it's not much of a thing anymore because there's a lot more engineering going on in these units than just the antenna.

 

[GotNoRice]

Well, I went ahead and took the risk. I did a bunch of before and after tests between the old RAX40 and the new RAX50 with the upgraded antennas. Both Access Points mounted in the exact same spot, on the same WiFi channel, and all other settings the same. Same firmware version. All other access points in the house disabled during testing. Below is the data that I collected. Only 5Ghz was tested. Note that my ISP download speed is 330Mbps (with burst speed above that) so that explains why that is the max even at short distances. Used Speed Test app for speed tests. Tested 5 times at each location to verify consistency of results. Used WiFi Analyzer app for signal strength measurements.

Reclining Chair (approx 12ft from AP, full LOS)
RAX40: -43dB 340-345Mbps
RAX50: -39dB 340-345Mbps

Bathroom Counter (approx 45ft from AP, 2-3 walls in-between)
RAX40: -75dB 170-180Mbps
RAX50: -70dB 250-308Mbps

Inside RV (Outside House, approx 70ft from AP, 4-5 walls in-between)
RAX40: -81dB Reported no connection to Internet
RAX50: -74dB 190-220Mbps

Front of Barn (Outside House, approx 130ft from AP, only 1 glass window in-between)
RAX40: -67dB 250-290Mbps
RAX50: -66dB 290-300Mbps

Bench near edge of Yard (Outside House, approx 200ft from AP, approx 2-3 walls in-between)
RAX40: -81dB Reported no connection to Internet
RAX50: -76dB 150-180Mbps

So based on those results, I'd say that the upgrade was a success. It enabled 5Ghz connectivity in areas where it was not possible before (Although connections were still possible using 2.4Ghz). How much of the improvement was due to the better antennas vs. the AP simply having better hardware, I can't say; but I don't think that the new antennas are holding anything back.

 

[SamirD]

Great analysis! What I am really curious about now is the RAX40 antennas on the RAX50. I wonder if their performance would have been the same or less than the ebay ones.

As far as the ebay antennas, while they are working for what you need, it looks like they stuffed +5 antennas inside of +20 cases and labelled them as +12. I think you would have gotten away with smaller antennas (legit +9) or had even better gains with legit +12/20 for the same cost.

 

[GotNoRice]

Great analysis! What I am really curious about now is the RAX40 antennas on the RAX50.

Unfortunately the RAX40 antennas are not removable for whatever reason.

As far as the ebay antennas, while they are working for what you need, it looks like they stuffed +5 antennas inside of +20 cases and labelled them as +12. I think you would have gotten away with smaller antennas (legit +9) or had even better gains with legit +12/20 for the same cost.

Well, like I mentioned before, I didn't buy anything from eBay. I bought from a seller who sold on eBay. It doesn't automatically mean that the antennas weren't "legit". The site you linked, that looks like something from Geocities, didn't exactly fill me with confidence. One thing that is actually nice about eBay, from the buyer's perspective at least, is the ability to leave feedback. It makes it pretty easy to tell a good seller from a bad seller if you know what to look for. When you buy directly from a website and get burned, what recourse do you have to let others know to avoid that site? Rant about it on facebook and forums? I would be much more suspicious about that than a seller who has done business on eBay for 23 years with 64 thousand feedbacks and 99.9% positive. You've made it clear that you have an inherent distrust of eBay. Well, so do I, which is why I only buy from sellers with essentially perfect feedback.

I also think that there is some good logic to what you said before about the larger antennas picking up more noise. I am rural, with considerable distance from my neighbors, so it's entirely possible that what works well for me might not work as well for someone in an apartment or the suburbs.

 

[SamirD]

Unfortunately the RAX40 antennas are not removable for whatever reason.

Well, like I mentioned before, I didn't buy anything from eBay. I bought from a seller who sold on eBay. It doesn't automatically mean that the antennas weren't "legit". The site you linked, that looks like something from Geocities, didn't exactly fill me with confidence. One thing that is actually nice about eBay, from the buyer's perspective at least, is the ability to leave feedback. It makes it pretty easy to tell a good seller from a bad seller if you know what to look for. When you buy directly from a website and get burned, what recourse do you have to let others know to avoid that site? Rant about it on facebook and forums? I would be much more suspicious about that than a seller who has done business on eBay for 23 years with 64 thousand feedbacks and 99.9% positive. You've made it clear that you have an inherent distrust of eBay. Well, so do I, which is why I only buy from sellers with essentially perfect feedback.

Interesting. Sometimes they just have a weird lock of sorts like on a medicine bottle before they will unscrew. Oh well.

The site I gave was just an example. If it doesn't bother you that you got ripped, then fine by me--just pointing out that you did. Ebay feedbacks mean nothing anymore since those get gamed and accounts get hacked. It's like relying on 'sold by amazon' or amazon reviews--all gamed now and unreliable indicators of fraud.

 

[GotNoRice]

If it doesn't bother you that you got ripped, then fine by me--just pointing out that you did.

In what way did I get "ripped" exactly? You haven't pointed out anything other than your hatred and distrust of eBay. If you have some actual information about the antennas that I purchased, that shows that they aren't doing what they are supposed to do, as opposed to simply ranting about the site that acted as a broker between me and the seller who I bought them from, then I'm happy to listen. But if you just want to keep ranting about eBay, then maybe you should make your own thread about that. My results so far after installing the antennas seem to suggest that they are doing their job quite well.

 

[SamirD]

In what way did I get "ripped" exactly? You haven't pointed out anything other than your hatred and distrust of eBay. If you have some actual information about the antennas that I purchased, that shows that they aren't doing what they are supposed to do, as opposed to simply ranting about the site that acted as a broker between me and the seller who I bought them from, then I'm happy to listen. But if you just want to keep ranting about eBay, then maybe you should make your own thread about that. My results so far after installing the antennas seem to suggest that they are doing their job quite well.

You got a +5db antenna in a +20 shell labelled as +12. If you're okay with that, fine by me. Some people don't care, some do. I would. You might not.

 

[GotNoRice]

You got a +5db antenna in a +20 shell labelled as +12. If you're okay with that, fine by me. Some people don't care, some do. I would. You might not.

What evidence do you have of that? That's based on speculation that you literally pulled out of your ass. Stock antennas are +7dB, just as they are on the RAX40. The antennas I got are +12dB. That's +5dB higher. Most of the measurements I took showed a +5dB increase, and more importantly, gave me 5Ghz connectivity in places were I didn't have it before. What more should I be expecting from these antennas exactly?

 

[SamirD]

What evidence do you have of that? That's based on speculation that you literally pulled out of your ass. Stock antennas are +7dB, just as they are on the RAX40. The antennas I got are +12dB. That's +5dB higher. Most of the measurements I took showed a +5dB increase, and more importantly, gave me 5Ghz connectivity in places were I didn't have it before. What more should I be expecting from these antennas exactly?

I was just looking at the numbers you posted that showed about a +5 difference across the board from the rax40 to the rax50--and you're right that it's +12 when factoring in the original stock +7. I was only looking at the +5, so my bad. They are strangely large for +12 as those are usually +20 casings, but that's just cosmetic.