Netflix raises prices on standard and premium plans

Derangel

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
19,458
The point behind piracy is to teach content providers a lesson and to compete with it. Competition usually brings better products and prices, but as we can see with the current streaming service providers, that isn't happening. It was fine when it was just Netflix, but now you have Hulu, HBO, Disney+, and the list goes on. Most of these streaming services are full of crap but have this one or three shows or movies worth watching. We're basically right back to cable.

As much as you think you have a choice, you really don't. This legal monopoly that we call copyright prevents other streaming services from providing the same content but cheaper and better. There are still some devices where I can't install Netflix onto because it's a Chinese made off brand tablet. There is no effort from Netflix to fix this. This also goes for Disney+ and HBO. You know what does work on every device? Piracy!

Remember that piracy is responsible for why Streaming services exist, because that was what they needed to do to compete with it. Otherwise we'd be paying $60 for a Blu-Ray movie, and $600 for the machine to play it, like in 2006. Blu-Ray was clearly superior and it clearly failed to the cheaper and lower image quality of NetFlix. Not only was Netflix profitable but it helped create the many other streaming services that exist today. So the proper path is to pirate. If Netflix and other streaming services want to compete then they better offer cheaper prices and better content.

While you have some good points that video is such fucking bullshit, filled with half-truths and a total lack of understanding of the industry. It is a REALLY bad video to use as part of your point.

I will say though: Why do people keep assuming that you have to use every service all the time? The fragmentation sucks, but we need to stop comparing it to cable. Cable is all-or-nothing. Outside of premium channels you don't get to pick and choose what to watch or what you get. This is not the case with streaming services. You don't need to be subscribed to all of them all the time. Watch what you want, cancel, move on. Hell, use free trials to watch stuff over the course of month and make sure to cancel the moment you subscribe (so you don't forget to do so later on). It's inconvenient, but still a fuck load better than cable.
 

Epos7

Gawd
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Messages
618
The whole getting rid of viewer show ratings to protect Amy Schumer's horrible unfunny 'comedy' specials was really just the start of their downhill plunge.
I never found the ratings all that useful to begin with. If I remember right, they didn't show the actual rating, just an adjusted rating based on what they thought you might like.

Online ratings are suspect now anyway because it's pretty common for political groups to mobilize armies of "downvote trolls" and tank the rating of anything that might offend their political sensibilities. I remember before First Man released, its audience scores were crazy low, because a bunch of snowflakes who hadn't even seen it decided it was bad. Their reason? It didn't show the American flag being planted on the moon.

I watched a few minutes of Amy Schumer's special and it was crap. But I'd rather see no ratings than bunk ones.
 
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Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
4,498
the third option that a lot of people forget about is “don’t watch it.”

sorry you want it but don’t feel like paying for it, but don’t use that to justify pirating it like it’s okay.

Ok, but abstenence only doesn't work in society, and that is basically the third option. Your position is the dumbest position because it makes no attempt to address the problem outside of moral authority.

there are three classes of people.

Those that won't pirate, won't. does not matter why they won't they are already not.

Those that will pirate due to access restrictions, this group is the easiest to bring into the paying fold by providing ease of access. We want this group to become paying customers.

those that will pirate regardless, this group should be considered irrelavent as they will never be a paying customer. sure you can invest in a game of whack a mole trying to take them out, but in a globalized world good luck with tthat one when they move (servers) to malasia (or other country).
 
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Snowdensjacket

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 10, 2017
Messages
343
I only have Amazon prime now. I have a fairly large collection of shows and movies I've purchased. I've given up on blu-ray even though I've got about two hundred discs. I've gone through over ten blu-ray players now. They just stop working constantly. Last one I tried was a Ps4. Which I had to swap the blu-ray drive inside twice and it has stopped working again about two months ago.

I've got money and piracy isn't convenient for me. I won't support Netflix and their garbage catalog filled with pozzed out crap. Hulu has too many commercials. Amazon prime is very convenient. I just buy the movies and shows I want.

Now my biggest problem is I still can't get unlimited high speed internet where I live in a city of two million people. My family hits the data cap three times a year and I end up with a huge bill. It's 2020 ffs why can't I get unlimited internet?
 

Epos7

Gawd
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Messages
618
I only have Amazon prime now. I have a fairly large collection of shows and movies I've purchased. I've given up on blu-ray even though I've got about two hundred discs. I've gone through over ten blu-ray players now. They just stop working constantly. Last one I tried was a Ps4. Which I had to swap the blu-ray drive inside twice and it has stopped working again about two months ago.
I moved to a FreeNAS/Plex media server about 7-8 years ago. I just rip the disc and add it to my collection there, then play it on whatever smart device/tv you want.
 

Aurelius

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 22, 2003
Messages
3,006
I only have Amazon prime now. I have a fairly large collection of shows and movies I've purchased. I've given up on blu-ray even though I've got about two hundred discs. I've gone through over ten blu-ray players now. They just stop working constantly. Last one I tried was a Ps4. Which I had to swap the blu-ray drive inside twice and it has stopped working again about two months ago.

I've got money and piracy isn't convenient for me. I won't support Netflix and their garbage catalog filled with pozzed out crap. Hulu has too many commercials. Amazon prime is very convenient. I just buy the movies and shows I want.

Now my biggest problem is I still can't get unlimited high speed internet where I live in a city of two million people. My family hits the data cap three times a year and I end up with a huge bill. It's 2020 ffs why can't I get unlimited internet?

That has to be frustrating. I know the feeling to a degree — my ISP had 200GB caps up to maybe 5 or 6 years ago, even when people in other regions were unlimited. If I dared download a full game, I'd have to ration my video streaming for the rest of the month or else pay extra. When the ISP finally caught up to the unlimited era, it was like a breath of fresh air. I hope that happens for you soon.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
11,477
the third option that a lot of people forget about is “don’t watch it.”

sorry you want it but don’t feel like paying for it, but don’t use that to justify pirating it like it’s okay.
And what difference does it make to disney? He won't pay them either way, which means they need to offer better service to make him pay them.
 

deruberhanyok

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 22, 2004
Messages
1,758
Ok, but abstenence only doesn't work in society, and that is basically the third option. Your position is the dumbest position because it makes no attempt to address the problem outside of moral authority.

ha! Okay, if that’s how you want to justify stealing, go ahead.

we’re talking about a TV show or a movie. There’s no “right to all content for everyone” enshrined in some universal declaration of human rights. You want it, you pay for it. You don’t want to pay for it, you don’t get it.

i wanted to watch the new Star Trek series but I don’t feel like getting another streaming service. So I don’t watch it. My friends are telling me The Mandalorian is great! But I don’t want another streaming service, so I haven’t seen it.

I don’t feel like my life is hugely burdened by these decisions. There’s no greater societal issue at play. It’s just a TV show.

All this just means that content providers have made it inconvenient for me to watch a show or a movie I’d like to watch. So they won’t get my money and I just won’t watch it. I’ve got plenty of other things to do that aren’t sitting in front of a screen and watching something.

if you are so hung up on consuming media that your identity depends on you watching TV shows and movies for fear of missing out, or whatever, that’s on you. But don’t conflate that with some kind of grand crusade about streaming services and IP rights or whatever. It’s just a show. You’ll be fine without it.
 

GreenLaser

n00b
Joined
Sep 24, 2020
Messages
6
IMO The reason that cable sucks so bad is that the .gov mandated that it be aggregated (Bundled) with a boatload of garbage channels that real people wouldn't watch or pay for voluntary. Those channels with horrible ratings still get paid from your monthly bill. I looked around to cut the $160/mo cable and mostly what I found was the same aggregation strategy by streaming bundlers that I was trying to get away from. Add to that the lack of entertainment content free from activist political Over and Undertones telling half of the country they're idiots and i havent been watching much of anything lately.

For our proud pirate ...how would you feel if you were working to feed your family on production crew of one of the media shows. And some joker comes on and says he is stealing your hard work. And maybe the plug gets pulled one day cause it isnt generating enough money to continue. Dont kid yourself, You are stealing from other people just like holding up a gas station.
 

Snowdensjacket

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 10, 2017
Messages
343
I moved to a FreeNAS/Plex media server about 7-8 years ago. I just rip the disc and add it to my collection there, then play it on whatever smart device/tv you want.

I should just take the time to set one up. At least all those discs won't be useless. The toddlers love to throw them everywhere I guess they aren't useless.

That has to be frustrating. I know the feeling to a degree — my ISP had 200GB caps up to maybe 5 or 6 years ago, even when people in other regions were unlimited. If I dared download a full game, I'd have to ration my video streaming for the rest of the month or else pay extra. When the ISP finally caught up to the unlimited era, it was like a breath of fresh air. I hope that happens for you soon.

I actually had unlimited until about three years ago when Comcast or whatever they renamed themselves to now got rid of it unless I got a business account. I could get unlimited DSL but the DSL here isn't fast enough for me to stream 1080p. It buffers constantly despite their claimed speed.
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
4,498
ha! Okay, if that’s how you want to justify stealing, go ahead.

we’re talking about a TV show or a movie. There’s no “right to all content for everyone” enshrined in some universal declaration of human rights. You want it, you pay for it. You don’t want to pay for it, you don’t get it.

i wanted to watch the new Star Trek series but I don’t feel like getting another streaming service. So I don’t watch it. My friends are telling me The Mandalorian is great! But I don’t want another streaming service, so I haven’t seen it.

I don’t feel like my life is hugely burdened by these decisions. There’s no greater societal issue at play. It’s just a TV show.

All this just means that content providers have made it inconvenient for me to watch a show or a movie I’d like to watch. So they won’t get my money and I just won’t watch it. I’ve got plenty of other things to do that aren’t sitting in front of a screen and watching something.

if you are so hung up on consuming media that your identity depends on you watching TV shows and movies for fear of missing out, or whatever, that’s on you. But don’t conflate that with some kind of grand crusade about streaming services and IP rights or whatever. It’s just a show. You’ll be fine without it.

1. You are seriously lacking in understanding if you think I'm justifying stealing, but that's par for the course when your only response is 'don't watch it'.

2. Piracy exists, has existed and will continue to, regardless of your personal feelings or perceived moral superiority.

3. How does a company combat piracy, see my post above. Netflix and steam are the single greatest blow delivered to digital piracy in the last 40 year. The netflix model is falling apart as more and more providers jump in, spreading the content around and creating barriers of access. This will increase piracy, regardless of your opinion.

For the record, you can lay off the stealing band wagon, I pay for all my content and don't pirate. So you might say, 'why does he have a vested interest in this if he doesn't pirate?' and I would say that shows you or anyone asking that question has no experience in the last 40 years, its just gone in one ear and out the other. The reason I have an interest is I buy my content, and the stupid lengths that content providers use to restrict their content from piracy in my experience does more to hamper the legitimate consumer's enjoyment than it does to hamper piracy.
 
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RanceJustice

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 9, 2003
Messages
5,978
The point behind piracy is to teach content providers a lesson and to compete with it. Competition usually brings better products and prices, but as we can see with the current streaming service providers, that isn't happening. It was fine when it was just Netflix, but now you have Hulu, HBO, Disney+, and the list goes on. Most of these streaming services are full of crap but have this one or three shows or movies worth watching. We're basically right back to cable.

As much as you think you have a choice, you really don't. This legal monopoly that we call copyright prevents other streaming services from providing the same content but cheaper and better. There are still some devices where I can't install Netflix onto because it's a Chinese made off brand tablet. There is no effort from Netflix to fix this. This also goes for Disney+ and HBO. You know what does work on every device? Piracy!

Remember that piracy is responsible for why Streaming services exist, because that was what they needed to do to compete with it. Otherwise we'd be paying $60 for a Blu-Ray movie, and $600 for the machine to play it, like in 2006. Blu-Ray was clearly superior and it clearly failed to the cheaper and lower image quality of NetFlix. Not only was Netflix profitable but it helped create the many other streaming services that exist today. So the proper path is to pirate. If Netflix and other streaming services want to compete then they better offer cheaper prices and better content.

It should be mentioned that the reason you can't install Netflix onto an off brand chinese tablet usually comes down to a handful of reasons. A few are kinda legitimate in that the hardware is actually obscure (Chinese native SoCs) and using different ARM extensions vs "commonplace big name" chipsets so the Netflix Android app looks at it and goes... well uh...guess its not on the list? Something kind of in the middle is a lack of pre-reqs , such as the Google Play services and integrations necessary for official Netflix on Android support. Lots of cheap tablets don't have official access to Google Play and failing something like MicroG, you don't have PlayStore so unless you do some rather complex sideloading (Aurora Store is a good option here, possibly with MicroG as well but it depends on device support and custom ROM) you're unlikely to get an official branch working, leaving you with a whole bunch of old, possibly modified (maliciously, at times) version on knock off 3rd party app-stores. However lots of others are basically licensing and fear of piracy. Failure to support HDCP and the proper level of Wildvine DRM means that Netflix won't install or won't let you watch things in higher definition.

Its worth mentioning this is not always the fault of Netflix, but rather all the content owners who demanded 'but what if people record, ripping all the content from your service and then quit!" and other such elements that required Netflix to placate them like children. Its the same thing with so many game publishers who demand Denuvo and similar anti-tamper elements. This is a continual issue. When it comes to Crunchyroll (the major anime streaming service now owned by Sony apparently), I should mention I used to keep a subscription there because it was reasonably inexpensive, had day-of-in-Japan releases of new titles for the most part ( I still needed to acquire fansubs for things like movies, any series that weren't part of Crunchyroll's catalogue most notably those licensed in the US by Funimation etc..) and overall was a decent setup for both manga and anime. The crux of the whole thing was that, for me, I was able to use a Kodi plug-in that was open source and REQUIRED a paying Crunchyroll account , syncing with your watch list and the like.

For a long time this was functional.... but then the legal DRM people got involved. They lodged a DMCA claim against the Crunchyroll plug-in for Kodi even though it was A) open source and not using any illicit code and B) was only used by actual subscribers , which led to takedowns and the developers stopping work upon it. Combined with a change to the CR API, it meant that the old versions became non-functional, which was very frustrating. There was a large forum thread (more than one) asking Crunchyroll to officially support Kodi or at least allow 3rd party addons that followed certain rules but they "had no plans" to do so, same with parent company VERV or whatever its name was for awhile (which had its own subscription for a number of different channels including CR. Thus, I cancelled my subscription and didn't look back. Their shortsightedness turned thousands of subscribers into pirates again, with that one gesture!
 

Epos7

Gawd
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Messages
618
IMO The reason that cable sucks so bad is that the .gov mandated that it be aggregated (Bundled) with a boatload of garbage channels that real people wouldn't watch or pay for voluntary
Source? My understanding is this strategy was arrived on by the cable companies as a way to maximize profitability. Is there some law behind it I'm not aware of?

Closest thing I can find is this FCC report finding that the government should not intervene to prevent bundling:

https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/6518330656.pdf
 

dark_reign

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
2,312
Anyone using legal movie streaming sites like TUBI and VUDU? Downside is tolerating a few ads. Most ads are pretty short. Content is hit or miss.
 

Derangel

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
19,458
It should be mentioned that the reason you can't install Netflix onto an off brand chinese tablet usually comes down to a handful of reasons. A few are kinda legitimate in that the hardware is actually obscure (Chinese native SoCs) and using different ARM extensions vs "commonplace big name" chipsets so the Netflix Android app looks at it and goes... well uh...guess its not on the list? Something kind of in the middle is a lack of pre-reqs , such as the Google Play services and integrations necessary for official Netflix on Android support. Lots of cheap tablets don't have official access to Google Play and failing something like MicroG, you don't have PlayStore so unless you do some rather complex sideloading (Aurora Store is a good option here, possibly with MicroG as well but it depends on device support and custom ROM) you're unlikely to get an official branch working, leaving you with a whole bunch of old, possibly modified (maliciously, at times) version on knock off 3rd party app-stores. However lots of others are basically licensing and fear of piracy. Failure to support HDCP and the proper level of Wildvine DRM means that Netflix won't install or won't let you watch things in higher definition.

Its worth mentioning this is not always the fault of Netflix, but rather all the content owners who demanded 'but what if people record, ripping all the content from your service and then quit!" and other such elements that required Netflix to placate them like children. Its the same thing with so many game publishers who demand Denuvo and similar anti-tamper elements. This is a continual issue. When it comes to Crunchyroll (the major anime streaming service now owned by Sony apparently), I should mention I used to keep a subscription there because it was reasonably inexpensive, had day-of-in-Japan releases of new titles for the most part ( I still needed to acquire fansubs for things like movies, any series that weren't part of Crunchyroll's catalogue most notably those licensed in the US by Funimation etc..) and overall was a decent setup for both manga and anime. The crux of the whole thing was that, for me, I was able to use a Kodi plug-in that was open source and REQUIRED a paying Crunchyroll account , syncing with your watch list and the like.

For a long time this was functional.... but then the legal DRM people got involved. They lodged a DMCA claim against the Crunchyroll plug-in for Kodi even though it was A) open source and not using any illicit code and B) was only used by actual subscribers , which led to takedowns and the developers stopping work upon it. Combined with a change to the CR API, it meant that the old versions became non-functional, which was very frustrating. There was a large forum thread (more than one) asking Crunchyroll to officially support Kodi or at least allow 3rd party addons that followed certain rules but they "had no plans" to do so, same with parent company VERV or whatever its name was for awhile (which had its own subscription for a number of different channels including CR. Thus, I cancelled my subscription and didn't look back. Their shortsightedness turned thousands of subscribers into pirates again, with that one gesture!

I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the demand for stuff like that to be shut down came from the Japanese license holders, many of which have some rather "interesting" ideas when it comes to content control.

Hopefully with Sony (as soon as the deal closes) owning both Crunchyroll (presumably VRV along with it) and Funimation they can put Funi stuff back on VRV and deal with a lot of the fragmentation issues. Be nice for them to get Aniplex in there as well, but I'll keep my hopes at least semi-realistic.
 

LukeTbk

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
402
Those that will pirate due to access restrictions, this group is the easiest to bring into the paying fold by providing ease of access. We want this group to become paying customers.
how much access restriction is there for say an American customer ? It tend to be niche product they cannot access no ?

3. How does a company combat piracy, see my post above. Netflix and steam are the single greatest blow delivered to digital piracy in the last 40 year. The netflix model is falling apart as more and more providers jump in, spreading the content around and creating barriers of access. This will increase piracy, regardless of your opinion.
One could say free music on youtube/spotify was, but almost free music could be better than piracy for an industry it can still terrible:
https://deconstructingrisk.files.wo...ry-revenues-1972-to-2020-april-2018.png?w=500

Inflation adjusted music revenues are about half of the mid 90s despite music being arguably at is most listened of all time, while piracy is probably not a thing in music anymore (why pirate when spotify is free on your computer and youtube.... or all the music in the world if you want it in on your mobile, you will pay a fortune for music in data plan/expensive smartphone/etc..., just not in the music itself).

$8 month Early Netflix is a bit of the same, when it was already monetized content getting an extra bonus at that price it was a good deal, if it become the main source of revenues and replace the 200 billions TV revenues source + some of the movies revenues not sure it work for the industry, think about Disney+, made sense to play movies that made blockbuster at the box office but without them, didn't necessarily work for Mulan and had to add a fee.

It is easy to remove piracy by making something free like youtube or the click/ads supported news vs paid news, it is not necessarily good for anyone, it has yet to be in any case.
 

gsilver

Gawd
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
632
The more services there are, the more likely I am to just cancel them unless there's a backlog of material that I want to go through, and just alternate between them.

Netflix is cancelled now, and I won't re-subscribe until they have a new series that I really want to watch.

I really don't have the time or interest for more than one.
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
4,498
how much access restriction is there for say an American customer ? It tend to be niche product they cannot access no ?


One could say free music on youtube/spotify was, but almost free music could be better than piracy for an industry it can still terrible:
https://deconstructingrisk.files.wo...ry-revenues-1972-to-2020-april-2018.png?w=500

Inflation adjusted music revenues are about half of the mid 90s despite music being arguably at is most listened of all time, while piracy is probably not a thing in music anymore (why pirate when spotify is free on your computer and youtube.... or all the music in the world if you want it in on your mobile, you will pay a fortune for music in data plan/expensive smartphone/etc..., just not in the music itself).

$8 month Early Netflix is a bit of the same, when it was already monetized content getting an extra bonus at that price it was a good deal, if it become the main source of revenues and replace the 200 billions TV revenues source + some of the movies revenues not sure it work for the industry, think about Disney+, made sense to play movies that made blockbuster at the box office but without them, didn't necessarily work for Mulan and had to add a fee.

It is easy to remove piracy by making something free like youtube or the click/ads supported news vs paid news, it is not necessarily good for anyone, it has yet to be in any case.

1. I don't know, I'm not american but its about ease of access as much as restriction of access. As an example, until recently in Canada you could not get HBO without paying a Ludacris amount of money on the full package of content from Bell (a canadian broadcaster). As a result I don't watch HBO content, even now that they are less restrictive in Canada. Cable was another prime example, rather than pay for all the channels and content you didn't want (but often had too to get what you did want) many people just pirated the content instead.

2. Who said anything about free? It doesn't have to be free, sure pricing is a factor, but the bigger factor was Netflix had just about everything streaming, or at least most of everything, it was a single monthly fee and gave you massive access. Now with Disney +, Netflix, Hulu, Prime, CBS, etc, etc that market is becoming fragmented again to the point where you will need 4ish content providers to get access to most things. That becomes a barrier of entry that plays in favor of piracy.

Music is facing other issues that they refuse to really address and instead make everything about piracy. The main issue is 30 years after the 90's there are a lot of different entertainment options competing for peoples time and money, and music just isn't that good at competing with more immersive entertainment options.

Free will not solve piracy, because piracy is not mostly about being free, its about watching that one show someone wants to see that they don't place enough value on to buy an entire service (Mandalorian is a simple and recent example).

Those that want things for free will never be good customers anyway and should be largely ignored, and only addressed once every other demographic has been sold something.
 
D

Deleted member 278999

Guest
And its time to cancel. Their content is getting worse and worse.

I seriously haven't logged into Netflix in a couple of months. The content is awful.

Making a note to ax this some time this week. I've got a few more subs that I need to cancel as well.

Netflix says they're asking for more because they're delivering more and better content. I just see more teenage crap. The last good thing I watched was Mind Hunter, though that's now been unofficially cancelled.

$18/month is absolutely ridiculous.
 

hity645

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 11, 2005
Messages
6,550
$1 increase is not going to kill me. Though, if they keep this up I'm finding it harder and harder to keep them. I've got Hulu, Disney Plus, Netflix, Amazon Prime, and HBO. Seems like I could throw some add-ons to Hulu or Prime and get the content I'd be missing.

So they're raising prices during a economic collapse. I can't see how this could go wrong?
View attachment 294103
I was literally just thinking this. Thanks for the lol.
 

cybereality

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
6,457
Even with all the different streaming services, it's still cheaper than cable.

In the old days, it you got a full cable package, you were talking $150, plus more if you wanted HBO, Showtime, etc.

Now you can pick and choice like 2 or 3 of your favorite services, or even more, it still would be cheaper than cable.
 

LukeTbk

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
402
1. I don't know, I'm not american but its about ease of access as much as restriction of access. As an example, until recently in Canada you could not get HBO without paying a Ludacris amount of money on the full package of content from Bell (a canadian broadcaster). As a result I don't watch HBO content, even now that they are less restrictive in Canada. Cable was another prime example, rather than pay for all the channels and content you didn't want (but often had too to get what you did want) many people just pirated the content instead.
This is much more that for westerner I imagine, specially Americans.

2. Who said anything about free? It doesn't have to be free, sure pricing is a factor, but the bigger factor was Netflix had just about everything streaming, or at least most of everything, it was a single monthly fee and gave you massive access. Now with Disney +, Netflix, Hulu, Prime, CBS, etc, etc that market is becoming fragmented again to the point where you will need 4ish content providers to get access to most things. That becomes a barrier of entry that plays in favor of piracy.
It can go as low as free/near free (it did for music and the news), yet to be has low in some country for Series/movies but if you want to stop piracy it would need to be near free.

Yes it become a barrier of entry that plays in favor of piracy, but Americans payed in average over $100 a month for TV, TV was an over $200 billions industry, if all of that get replaced by the equivalent of 2 streaming service at $8 a month with an average of 2 household sharing their account it would need to do like music do, become 3-4 time smaller with a winner take alls models. Not necessary good for anyone on the long term.

Music is facing other issues that they refuse to really address and instead make everything about piracy. The main issue is 30 years after the 90's there are a lot of different entertainment options competing for peoples time and money, and music just isn't that good at competing with more immersive entertainment options.
I doubt they make everything about piracy by now that they made music about free to get rid of it and if people listen to less music now than they did in the 90s I would like to see numbers supporting that, if we look at the most popular youtube videos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-viewed_YouTube_videos), they are almost all of them musics, music is present in video games, movies, tv shows, used to sales movies in trailers, it is quite omnipresent.

Piracy offered an absolutely identical product with very little bandwidth needed and almost free disk space to store it and most jurisdiction made it perfectly legal unlike for tv/movie, if 4K movies today would be the equivalent bandwidth/disk space wise than a 7 mb song as was legal like it is for music, piracy would get extremely popular as well.

Free will not solve piracy, because piracy is not mostly about being free, its about watching that one show someone wants to see that they don't place enough value on to buy an entire service (Mandalorian is a simple and recent example).
If Mandalorian was free on youtube, piracy would not be much of an issue (but the loss of revenues would still be terrible), take Joe Rogan, how much piracy of is content is going on ? I am not sure at what point music piracy is still a thing, but making music free/near free did seem to really stop it. Same goes for the news, how much piracy is going on in that sector ? Making it free did really made piracy in that sector niche, same goes for a facebook like platform, how much piracy of pirate account of a paying platform ?
 

deruberhanyok

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 22, 2004
Messages
1,758
1. You are seriously lacking in understanding if you think I'm justifying stealing, but that's par for the course when your only response is 'don't watch it'.

2. Piracy exists, has existed and will continue to, regardless of your personal feelings or perceived moral superiority.

heh, okay man, whatever you say. There’s no “moral superiority” involved here. They’re just tv shows. No one is saying you have to watch them. No one lives or dies if you don’t.

of course as soon as you make the decision to watch them, purchase them, whatever, you have to decide if you want to do it legitimately or not. There are rules in place and you can choose to follow them or not. Saying it’s okay for some people because it’s inconvenient just misses my point, which is: it’s a TV show. Get over it.


The reason I have an interest is I buy my content, and the stupid lengths that content providers use to restrict their content from piracy in my experience does more to hamper the legitimate consumer's enjoyment than it does to hamper piracy.

well, this is a “vote with your wallet” thing then. If it’s hampering the legitimate consumer experience, why put money into it? Do you want those shows so badly that you’re willing to buy into a system you don’t like?
 

cybereality

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
6,457
1604358423005.png


I'm not a fan of piracy, but I absolutely would download a car if that was at all possible.
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
4,498
heh, okay man, whatever you say. There’s no “moral superiority” involved here. They’re just tv shows. No one is saying you have to watch them. No one lives or dies if you don’t.

of course as soon as you make the decision to watch them, purchase them, whatever, you have to decide if you want to do it legitimately or not. There are rules in place and you can choose to follow them or not. Saying it’s okay for some people because it’s inconvenient just misses my point, which is: it’s a TV show. Get over it.




well, this is a “vote with your wallet” thing then. If it’s hampering the legitimate consumer experience, why put money into it? Do you want those shows so badly that you’re willing to buy into a system you don’t like?

Seeing as you have no desire to discuss and just want to make little of the content, bye. (its just a tv show get over it, great solution to piracy my dude, are you in radio?)
 

Ur_Mom

Fully [H]
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
20,337
I'll stick with it for now but it's moving closer and closer to the chopping block.

I said that the last couple times. I think it's hit the chopping block for me. Content is getting worse, I watch more Hulu now than anything. Netflix was my go-to for a long time. Huge library, great originals. Past couple years, though, I just can't defend them as the best anymore. Too many services out there competing for licenses with distributors or running their own services. Just getting too diluted and weak offerings, as many people called it years ago.

I'll cancel for a couple months until something cool comes on. But, it's on an as-needed basis now instead of a real monthly subscription.

Piracy? Not yet. $13.99 isn't that bad and not worth it to pirate something. I'll pay that to support original programming (when it's good, it's real good. When it's shit, it's real dog shit). It's not cost prohibitive, it's just not worth it month to month anymore. The value isn't there for me. If it's worth pirating, it's worth the $13.99.
 

deruberhanyok

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 22, 2004
Messages
1,758
Seeing as you have no desire to discuss and just want to make little of the content, bye. (its just a tv show get over it, great solution to piracy my dude, are you in radio?)

I’m sure you’re ignoring me already, but since you haven’t responded to my initial point - that is to say, you haven’t explained why you think it’s so important to watch whatever show or movie - I think you’re the one who doesn’t actually have a desire to discuss this?

you can talk around points all you want, but there’s nothing important going on here. You’re either stealing content or you’re not, but no one is forcing you to watch anything.
 

sfsuphysics

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
14,288
Now I never watched Game of Thrones but how many people pirated Game of Thrones (bajillions) and the whole "But I don't want to pay for HBO if all I want is that show" or even "It's not available her for XX time period" or "Why isn't it released on Netflix at the same time, everyone is talking about it nooooow!!!!"

It's a mentality of people that they have some right to watch a particular show or movie under their conditions and the person who created it doesn't get any say what so ever. You can make the justification you don't want to not pay for HBO or Disney+ or whatever other thing, all day long, at the end of the day the argument is "I want what I want and that's what is important". At least the true pirate is honest "I just want it because I can get it for free and free is better than paying"
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
4,498
I’m sure you’re ignoring me already, but since you haven’t responded to my initial point - that is to say, you haven’t explained why you think it’s so important to watch whatever show or movie - I think you’re the one who doesn’t actually have a desire to discuss this?

you can talk around points all you want, but there’s nothing important going on here. You’re either stealing content or you’re not, but no one is forcing you to watch anything.

I don't, but you point is entirely moot, it doesn't matter to me about whatever show or movie, you set that up as a straw man and I kept trying to bring you back to the point of my post. That's why your taking some silly moral highroad, its pointless continuing because you clearly don't understand the post, the point, or the larger detrimental effect that most anti-piracy measure have on legitimate consumers that we just put up with (Denovo).

You want me to engage your strawman, I refuse, it is a straw man, and shows a complete lack of understanding of both piracy, and the pivotal positive role streaming services like Netflix have played.

'nuff said.
 

SvenBent

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
3,207
I always find it funny how people try to justify their bad morale standing.
If you dont want the content then don't get it. If you are pirating it means you still wanted the content so pay for it.
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
4,498
I always find it funny how people try to justify their bad morale standing.
If you dont want the content then don't get it. If you are pirating it menas you still wanted the content so pay for it.

prove it, show me how I have bad moral standing in realising that piracy will always be part of digital reality and that the approach of minimizing it is more effect than anything else, including your silly answer.
 

SvenBent

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
3,207
prove it, show me how I have bad moral standing in realising that piracy will always be part of digital reality and that the approach of minimizing it is more effect than anything else, including your silly answer.
Rapist and thugs always be part of society are they thereby not bad morale?
just because it happens doesn't make it right. What a weird logic

There is nothing to prove your argument has no value to begin with.
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
4,498
Rapist and thugs always be part of society are they thereby no bad morales?
just becuase it happens doesn't make it right. What a weird logic

There is nothing to prove you argument has not value to begin with.

god you people are about as good as a bag of rocks.

minimizing piracy and maximizing paying customers is somehow morally wrong and equavlent to rapists. Got it.
 

SvenBent

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
3,207
god you people are about as good as a bag of rocks.

minimizing piracy and maximizing paying customers is somehow morally wrong and equavlent to rapists. Got it.
I'm sorry I don't follow are you now against or for pirating is OK?
 

Aegir

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 15, 2020
Messages
437
prove it, show me how I have bad moral standing in realising that piracy will always be part of digital reality and that the approach of minimizing it is more effect than anything else, including your silly answer.

The unsaid opinion is this:

Should servers like Netflix or Hulu even exist?

What if the bittorrent protocol was the ONLY option, and artists and creators would be paid directly via taxation from the government? All creators would be paid via patronage of the government.

Hey, taxation is theft, because even if you say "no," they say "yes," so what's this "morality" we speak of, if not raw strength of those with power? Might is what's right, in practice.

True ethics have nothing to do with applied law and justice, so let's be creative.

If all content was completely free by law, and it was ILLEGAL to charge money for art, media, music, or anything else, due to the fact that the government itself was the patron of all artists, then how does that affect your moral position?

And don't tell me something about "that will never happen! What an unlikely paradigm shift."

I'm not naive. I hope you're not either. ;)

Morality is one of those words that can be spoken easily, but ... it's just an empty word at the end of the day.
Only the truth of nature matters.
 

SvenBent

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
3,207
The unsaid opinion is this:

Should servers like Netflix or Hulu even exist?

What if the bittorrent protocol was the ONLY option, and artists and creators would be paid directly via taxation from the government? All creators would be paid via patronage of the government.

Hey, taxation is theft, because even if you say "no," they say "yes," so what's this "morality" we speak of, if not raw strength of those with power? Might is what's right, in practice.

True ethics have nothing to do with applied law and justice, so let's be creative.

If all content was completely free by law, and it was ILLEGAL to charge money for art, media, music, or anything else, due to the fact that the government itself was the patron of all artists, then how does that affect your moral position?

And don't tell me something about "that will never happen! What an unlikely paradigm shift."

I'm not naive. I hope you're not either. ;)

Morality is one of those words that can be spoken easily, but ... it's just an empty word at the end of the day.
Only the truth of nature matters.

A lot of blah blah but you did not answer my question

yes they should exist like any other person or organization provider a service to other under and agreement you are free to take advantage of or not.
I dont care for you fictions world philosophy, taking ownership of other property without the arranged permission is bad morale.

If they are paid through taxation ( a system that does exist in other countries) that would be fine too. but its paid and under the arrangement the service provider is offering.
you have still yet to answer my question

Moral might be empty word for you I do not doubt that.
 

Format _C:

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 12, 2001
Messages
3,237
View attachment 295240

I'm not a fan of piracy, but I absolutely would download a car if that was at all possible.

I am a swarm pirate but I am giving up after I got my first copyright DMCA violation from the ISP Charter Communications (AKA Spectrum). I would totally download a car if possible I would get me a classic 1979 Ford Thunderbird like the one my Father had. I loved that car and the AC was blowing ice on those hot summer days, all while making the gas gauges needle go toward the "E" faster then it already did due to the big V8 engine that car was equipped with.
 
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