Netflix Is Not Going to Kill Piracy, Research Suggests

[opfreak]

Hollywood rakes in billions by shoveling the same shit in your face every year. 99.9% of it is worth $0. Is getting ripped off fair?

Your not forced to watch.

 

[opfreak]

Fuck anyone who uses predatory practices. It's like a form of price gouging. Theyre jacking up the price for the same product that costs them the same to acquire and deliver on the hopes that some sucker cant wait. When the grocery store gets fresh produce does the price go up for everyone who shops early that morning? You have 2 options, buy or rent, both of which deliver the content exactly the same. They are deliberately limiting supply and then complaining when people find an alternative, so fuck em. You want to charge me $5 next week? Well here's my $5 now, take it or leave it, because you arent getting any more.

Price gouging on a good that's not required for life? LOL

You pirates are just a never ending pot of excuses.

 

[__hollywood|meow]

So what? You have no right, nor need for that content.

so your statement is incorrect. pirates arent demanding anything for free...nor do they have a right to any product, & nobody asserted that they think they do. youre pointing to twelve year olds whose mothers wont give them the credit card as the crux of piracy, when its actually just a symptom. its a facile & reductive argument.

Buy from companies that you feel treat you better.

i do...or rather, i tend to end up opting out entirely. theres nothing i want to watch anyway, its 99% huxleys brave new world. every media facet treats customers like prey or criminals. i dont watch television or subscribe to fractured content streaming services. i dont go to movies, & i dont buy them unless they were fantastic.

im pretty sure literally everyone here who has any principled stance on the issue votes with their wallet as well, regardless of piracy practices. that is also not addressing the root of the issue that youre sidestepping repeatedly.

 

[opfreak]

so your statement is incorrect. pirates arent demanding anything for free...nor do they have a right to any product, & nobody asserted that they think they do. youre pointing to twelve year olds whose mothers wont give them the credit card as the crux of piracy, when its actually just a symptom. its a facile & reductive argument.



i do...or rather, i tend to end up opting out entirely. theres nothing i want to watch anyway, its 99% huxleys brave new world. every media facet treats customers like prey or criminals. i dont watch television or subscribe to fractured content streaming services. i dont go to movies, & i dont buy them unless they were fantastic.

im pretty sure literally everyone here who has any principled stance on the issue votes with their wallet as well, regardless of piracy practices. that is also not addressing the root of the issue that youre sidestepping repeatedly.

no pirates are demanding things for free. Every price tag for them is too much.

Voting with your wallet is the right move. Pirates don't do that.

What issue am I side stepping?

 

[Derangel]

It matters you just don't want to admit that pirates are wrong

What is a fair price? for pirates its 0. Is that fair?

No, it does not. I'm avoiding giving my thoughts on pirates (something I've shared many times on this forum) because it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. People ARE pirating content, especially content they cannot easily access legally. THAT is the issue and THAT is the discussion of importance here. That also ties into the entire topic. Whether its right or not makes not a damn bit of difference because right or not people are doing it. And right or not content companies are taking actions that only serve to increase piracy instead of decreasing it.

You have the balls to excuse other people of ignoring arguments that don't conform to their message while completely ignoring the very thing directed at you. Hypocrite.

 

[Deleted member 88227]

Spot on. I do not have cable. The wifey wants Hallmark channel. My options are: Buy Cable at the 3rd tier (+$99/mo), Try to get it over Kodi (+4hrs of effort every month or so staying ahead of regulators for a spotty stream that she doesn't like messing with), PS Vue (+$45/mo for 1 hallmark, $55/mo for all 3), Sling ($20/mo +$5/mo), or some others around the same price points. So my best choice is $25/mo. Just for her to watch Hallmark channel, which is then using a bit of my internet bandwidth.

Pretty sure Hallmark has their own streaming server now and I don't think it's $25 a month.

 

[Derangel]

Pretty sure Hallmark has their own streaming server now and I don't think it's $25 a month.

Hallmark Movies Now. I don't think it includes all the stuff on Hallmark Channel though. So if someone basically wants to watch Hallmark Channel live and see everything on the channel, they still have to use one of the other options. But the price for the service itself seems reasonable. $6 per month or $60 per year.

 

[opfreak]

No, it does not. I'm avoiding giving my thoughts on pirates (something I've shared many times on this forum) because it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. People ARE pirating content, especially content they cannot easily access legally. THAT is the issue and THAT is the discussion of importance here. That also ties into the entire topic. Whether its right or not makes not a damn bit of difference because right or not people are doing it. And right or not content companies are taking actions that only serve to increase piracy instead of decreasing it.

You have the balls to excuse other people of ignoring arguments that don't conform to their message while completely ignoring the very thing directed at you. Hypocrite.

Your making a statement with zero to back it up. (pirating content you cannot easily access legally) .

I haven't ignored that argument.

My response is the same. So what? Do you have a right to that content? No. If content providers don't want to your money, then they are losing out on that profit. But just because they do not provide that content to you in a format you want, at a price you demand, does not give you the right to pirate it.

All pirates argument come down to them trying to justify them taking content without paying for it.

 

[nysmo]

Voting with your wallet is the right move. Pirates don't do that.

But we are voting with our wallets. The studios arent getting our money and yet they still cant figure out what to do. Many of us pirates are begging them to take our money, and all we ask in return is not to be raked over the coals in the process, and they still wont do it.

Look, I get your argument. If Company X owns Product Z then they should be able to do whatever they want with it. Universal can sell their next film as a 480p digital release for $10,000 if they want, and look ridiculous when they complain people stole it instead of paid them for it. It's still technically within their rights to ruin their product as they see fit. But there's fantasy and then there's reality, and reality says that if you want to stop losing money (if theyre losing any at all) there is a very simple solution. Create something people want. If China becomes the new world order and every IP address gets a dedicated minion to watch over what you do 24/7 that doesnt mean people will suddenly start paying exorbitant prices for things. Guess what all of us ex-pirates will do with those $15 streaming options? Just not stream at all. We wont buy, we'll just go without it. So the net result is still the same, no money for the studio.

They can either compromise with actual market forces or drive themselves out of business.

 

[silk186]

I pirate because it is the only way to get the shows I want. When I was living in China for 7 years I didn't have a legal alternative. Even if I bought the series boxset it would be a bootleg.
Now I'm in Europe and I have Amazon prime, but I am still very limited in content due to region blocking.

 

[BulletDust]

They don't owe you anything. If they don't want to sell to your country well they are missing out on your money, but if they own control of that product it should be their right. If the product is for sale in your country they you wouldn't pirate? Oh its not for sale in the format you want? so you pirate?

As consumers we're the ones dictating what the market demands, it's not the other way around.

Sure, the content creators don't owe us anything - But if they want to reduce substantial losses than they have to adapt to what the market is demanding as ultimately it's the market calling the shots and not the content creators.

Your capitalist attitude is like saying 'you can buy any car you like, but the US gets a variety of colors while every other country gets white and black only - If you don't like it, tough, we call the shots, just buy it because lack of options'. It's a very thin argument I'm afraid.

 

[opfreak]

As consumers we're the ones dictating what the market demands, it's not the other way around.

Sure, the content creators don't owe us anything - But if they want to reduce substantial losses than they have to adapt to what the market is demanding as ultimately it's the market calling the shots and not the content creators.

Your capitalist attitude is like saying 'you can buy any car you like, but the US gets a variety of colors while every other country gets white and black only - If you don't like it, tough, we call the shots, just buy it because lack of options'. It's a very thin argument I'm afraid.

Again, you have no need for this content. Pirates are trying to dictate how they want the content, and how much you want to pay for it. Worse, if you don't get your way, you just take it.


And now you pirates are arguing out of both sides of your mouth. You claim that piracy doesn't cost companies money, and it also causes ''substantial losses?

Finally, my capitalist attitude includes the option of you not buying an item. You seem to forget you have that option.

 

[opfreak]

But we are voting with our wallets. The studios arent getting our money and yet they still cant figure out what to do. Many of us pirates are begging them to take our money, and all we ask in return is not to be raked over the coals in the process, and they still wont do it.

Look, I get your argument. If Company X owns Product Z then they should be able to do whatever they want with it. Universal can sell their next film as a 480p digital release for $10,000 if they want, and look ridiculous when they complain people stole it instead of paid them for it. It's still technically within their rights to ruin their product as they see fit. But there's fantasy and then there's reality, and reality says that if you want to stop losing money (if theyre losing any at all) there is a very simple solution. Create something people want. If China becomes the new world order and every IP address gets a dedicated minion to watch over what you do 24/7 that doesnt mean people will suddenly start paying exorbitant prices for things. Guess what all of us ex-pirates will do with those $15 streaming options? Just not stream at all. We wont buy, we'll just go without it. So the net result is still the same, no money for the studio.

They can either compromise with actual market forces or drive themselves out of business.

And it should be their right to do so.

Again, your like the other guy, trying to argue that piracy both causes losses, and doesn't. Even without addressing that point, pirates are nothing but leeches who enjoy content that was paid for by others.

 

[BulletDust]

And it should be their right to do so.

Again, your like the other guy, trying to argue that piracy both causes losses, and doesn't. Even without addressing that point, pirates are nothing but leeches who enjoy content that was paid for by others.

That's not always the case.

Content needs to be readily available without the unnessecary restrictions of geoblocking at a price in line with realistic CPI and inflation. If the content creators want to hang on to an out of date business model and charge too much for content, people will look to other means to get what they desire, it's just data and if they were not in a position to purchase the content legally in the first place than no revenue is lost.

Consumers dictate how the market is run, not corporations. Your capitalist outlook doesn't stand to reason in the real world.

 

[Joust]

That's not always the case.

Content needs to be readily available without the unnessecary restrictions of geoblocking at a price in line with realistic CPI and inflation. If the content creators want to hang on to an out of date business model and charge too much for content, people will look to other means to get what they desire, it's just data and if they were not in a position to purchase the content legally in the first place than no revenue is lost.

Consumers dictate how the market is run, not corporations. Your capitalist outlook doesn't stand to reason in the real world.

Consumer and corporations *are* the market, right? So, two sides of the same coin. Consumers demand and corporations respond / supply, but the demands have to be reasonable demands. Most consumers, I think, are relatively reasonable.

 

[opfreak]

Consumer and corporations *are* the market, right? So, two sides of the same coin. Consumers demand and corporations respond / supply, but the demands have to be reasonable demands. Most consumers, I think, are relatively reasonable.

Pirates by the very definition not consumers.

 

[Joust]

Pirates by the very definition not consumers.

I suppose that is true, though I would like to think they represent a market opportunity. Take China, for example, which has nearly zero appreciation for intellectual property rights. Plenty of IP-heavy firms are still moving to the market because of that opportunity.

 

[BulletDust]

Pirates by the very definition not consumers.

Yes they are, they're consumers corporations have lost due to outdated business models - They're the ones with the leverage.

Everyone with money to spend is a consumer, the job of the corporation is to justify the purchase to the consumer, this is where the process is failing.

 

[dark_reign]

Your not forced to watch.

True, but banking on certain content that one might enjoy is risky considering the high price of movie tickets or digital rentals. Piracy saves you from wasting your time and money since the majority of content is shit. I had Netflix for a few years and canceled when the price hit $10. Lack of newer movies and long delays of current TV series was the main reason. Other legal alternatives are just as bad or worse.

Until they start offering a few streaming services that carry nearly everything at a low price, piracy will endure.

 

[earnolmartin]

We could always just get rid of money. That would solve the whole problem. We need to evolve beyond greed.

 

[Joust]

We could always just get rid of money. That would solve the whole problem. We need to evolve beyond greed.

We could get rid of money. We could go to trading turtle shells - but it does not really change the financial motivation - does it? Or we could get rid of fiat money altogether, in which case, the guy with the antibiotics or insulin or whatever would be king in a day.

 

[nightfly]

What's really sad, is that everyone knows how to stop piracy: Charge a reasonable fee to see stuff. And stop all the copyright nonsense; really, Disney, if you couldn't make enough money on your mouse in 100 years, that's not our fault. You get 100 years to cash in on your invention. That's it.
Greed is all that's in the way of this.

Media folks, if your product has commercials in it, then THAT'S the fee. If I purchase a hard copy, I get to do anything I want with it, including watch it where ever, and whenever I want, on whatever device I want. YOU sold it. You don't want to sell it? Then don't. But if you do, stop the whining about not being able to charge us extra after the fact.

 

[BulletDust]

We could always just get rid of money. That would solve the whole problem. We need to evolve beyond greed.

As a society greed appears to be becoming more prevalent and simply accepted as a way of life. For example, how many people out there work in excess of 38 hours a week and receive no financial benefit for doing so or even time in lieu? I know that in my country such practices are illegal, yet the masses are beginning to turn a blind eye and accept such hours as the modern working week despite the fact that their rights in the workplace are being eroded at an alarming rate.

Corporations simply see it as a legitimate means to increase profit knowing damn well that it's wage theft and it's illegal!

Modern society is a gawd damn joke.

 

[opfreak]

True, but banking on certain content that one might enjoy is risky considering the high price of movie tickets or digital rentals. Piracy saves you from wasting your time and money since the majority of content is shit. I had Netflix for a few years and canceled when the price hit $10. Lack of newer movies and long delays of current TV series was the main reason. Other legal alternatives are just as bad or worse.

Until they start offering a few streaming services that carry nearly everything at a low price, piracy will endure.

Thanks for proving my point, you don't want to pay for content. You want someone else to do it for you. You are a leech.

 

[opfreak]

As a society greed appears to be becoming more prevalent and simply accepted as a way of life. For example, how many people out there work in excess of 38 hours a week and receive no financial benefit for doing so or even time in lieu? I know that in my country such practices are illegal, yet the masses are beginning to turn a blind eye and accept such hours as the modern working week despite the fact that their rights in the workplace are being eroded at an alarming rate.

Corporations simply see it as a legitimate means to increase profit knowing damn well that it's wage theft and it's illegal!

Modern society is a gawd damn joke.

Who is being greedy? The person that wants to get paid for a product they created, or the pirate that wants that product without paying for it?

 

[BulletDust]

Who is being greedy? The person that wants to get paid for a product they created, or the pirate that wants that product without paying for it?

That's easy.

The corporation clinging onto old, unmarketable business practices. You still don't get it, the consumer dictates the market, not faceless corporations.

Even the pirates are potential consumers, you just have to stop with the mindless greed and market the product in a way that justifies the purchase to the potential consumer.

For instance, in Australia I am not going to shell out for a whole Foxtel package thats structured in a way to bleed me dry just to watch one tv series when it's released. From my perspective there's more efficient ways to access such 'data'.

 

[opfreak]

That's easy.

The corporation clinging onto old, unmarketable business practices. You still don't get it, the consumer dictates the market, not faceless corporations.

Even the pirates are potential consumers, you just have to stop with the mindless greed and market the product in a way that justifies the purchase to the potential consumer.

For instance, in Australia I am not going to shell out for a whole Foxtel package thats structured in a way to bleed me dry just to watch one tv series when it's released. From my perspective there's more efficient ways to access such 'data'.

You don't want to pay for shit. You want it free. Because its easy to 'steal' you do so.


you are not a consumer, your a 'thief'

 

[dark_reign]

Thanks for proving my point, you don't want to pay for content. You want someone else to do it for you. You are a leech.

Not at current prices and not for what's being offered from legal sources due to lack of content that I'm interested in watching.

 

[nysmo]

We could get rid of money. We could go to trading turtle shells - but it does not really change the financial motivation - does it? Or we could get rid of fiat money altogether, in which case, the guy with the antibiotics or insulin or whatever would be king in a day.

This assumes the only motivation to do something is if you get something in return. Perhaps society's of the future will be more interested in the greater good than merely enriching themselves personally.

 

[nysmo]

pirates are nothing but leeches who enjoy content that was paid for by others.

I dont see what this has to do with anything. If you were never paying then you were never paying.

 

[Joust]

This assumes the only motivation to do something is if you get something in return. Perhaps society's of the future will be more interested in the greater good than merely enriching themselves personally.

I think it does not assume the *only* motivation to do something is to get something in return, but rather, that such is *a* motivation. I would argue that a desire to advance one's financial position is a good thing for society, generally. Certainly the extremes of pretty much anything are detrimental, I agree - but, generally.

 

[opfreak]

I dont see what this has to do with anything. If you were never paying then you were never paying.

If you weren't paying ever, then you are 100% a leech. Also means your not a consumer so theirs no point in listening to you.

 

[opfreak]

Not at current prices and not for what's being offered from legal sources due to lack of content that I'm interested in watching.

excuses excuses.

Your a cheap bastard that would rather pirate then paying for things others worked on.

 

[M76]

They don't owe you anything. If they don't want to sell to your country well they are missing out on your money, but if they own control of that product it should be their right. If the product is for sale in your country they you wouldn't pirate? Oh its not for sale in the format you want? so you pirate?


your example was terrible, and as such I followed your terrible example. If we use your new example, if no store sells an item in your country do you go somewhere else to steal it?

You are just a big cry baby that when you don't get things your way you 'steal' them.

Repeating the same thing over and over again won't make your stance any more valid. They don't owe me anything according to you. Do they owe anything to you then? Because you get something I don't. Is that fair? No.

Yeah, copying a movie is still not stealing, no matter how many times you and the likes of you keep repeating it. And to follow the previous actually very good example if there was a way for me to replicate a part at home, say 3D print it, I'd absolutely do it. I wouldn't steal it, the same way I'm not stealing movies, I make a copy of them for my own personal home use.

 

[BulletDust]

You don't want to pay for shit. You want it free. Because its easy to 'steal' you do so.


you are not a consumer, your a 'thief'

A 'thief' is a corporation that pays no taxes in the country they trade in resulting in the middle/working class footing the bill, a 'thief' is a corporation that forces their workers to work well in excess of 40 hours per week while paying them no extra - effectively diluting their wages, a 'thief' is a corporation that charges more for a product than it's realistically worth.

If I was never going to buy the product in the first place and it's only data that I 'duplicate', I've 'stolen' nothing.

You really need to shoot that capitalist high horse you're riding, it's a nag.

 

[opfreak]

A 'thief' is a corporation that pays no taxes in the country they trade in resulting in the middle/working class footing the bill, a 'thief' is a corporation that forces their workers to work well in excess of 40 hours per week while paying them no extra - effectively diluting their wages, a 'thief' is a corporation that charges more for a product than it's realistically worth.

If I was never going to buy the product in the first place and it's only data that I 'duplicate', I've 'stolen' nothing.

You really need to shoot that capitalist high horse you're riding, it's a nag.

So because someone else does something bad, that gives you the right to do the same?

 

[opfreak]

Repeating the same thing over and over again won't make your stance any more valid. They don't owe me anything according to you. Do they owe anything to you then? Because you get something I don't. Is that fair? No.

Yeah, copying a movie is still not stealing, no matter how many times you and the likes of you keep repeating it. And to follow the previous actually very good example if there was a way for me to replicate a part at home, say 3D print it, I'd absolutely do it. I wouldn't steal it, the same way I'm not stealing movies, I make a copy of them for my own personal home use.

Actually repeating things that are true needs to be done to fight liars.

I the '' around stealing, because I know its not technically stealing. But there are aspects that are the same, if you obtaining a copy of a product you did not pay for, that's similar to stealing, the difference being that the owner is still not out.

Just because something isn't fair, doesn't give you the right to take/use/copy things you don't have a right to do so. The people that created that product should have the right to sell it how they see fit. I may disagree with how they sell it, but the result of me disagreeing is me not buying, AND not using the product.

 

[M76]

Actually repeating things that are true needs to be done to fight liars.

I the '' around stealing, because I know its not technically stealing. But there are aspects that are the same, if you obtaining a copy of a product you did not pay for, that's similar to stealing, the difference being that the owner is still not out.

Just because something isn't fair, doesn't give you the right to take/use/copy things you don't have a right to do so. The people that created that product should have the right to sell it how they see fit. I may disagree with how they sell it, but the result of me disagreeing is me not buying, AND not using the product.

Liars? That's a new low even for you. Unless you can back up that claim I suggest you hold your rabid horses.
And actually repeating the same thing and expecting a different outcome is insanity.

As for corporations dictating the market it is a false premise. The consumers are the market, and we dictate the market by putting our money where our mouth is. As demonstrated by the point I made about videogames earlier that you completely ignored. Surely that invalidates the "pirates just want everything for free" argument completely.

PS If downloading a movie is stealing according to you, then so is printing a part for my car on a 3D printer at home, right?

 

[BulletDust]

So because someone else does something bad, that gives you the right to do the same?

Have you never heard the saying pot calling the kettle black?

Bear in mind that in my example, the corporations are the ones stealing due to pure greed, all I'm doing is duplicating data that I couldnt justify purchasing in the first place or never had the realistic option of purchasing for anything even remotely resembling a realistic price, or couldn't purchase as it isn't even avaliable in my geographic location.

To hammer the point into your meagre cerebrum, it's no good crying 'theft' while desperately clinging onto an outdated business model based around the purest form of greed.

I'm happy to pay for content, but as the paying consumer, I dictate the terms.

 

[nysmo]

then you are 100% a leech.

You've used that word 5 times now. Is that the crux of your argument?

Consider this; lets say you're an aspiring aeronautical engineer, however the cost to purchase a license for CAD software is $100,000. As an 18 year old freshman in college you obviously do not have $100,000 to spend in a single software license. Boeing does. NASA does. SpaceX does. But you dont. So you pirate it. You were never buying it anyway, so tell me; has the developer been harmed? What have they lost due to your stolen copy? Or are you just going to do the whole "LA LA LA LA you're a leach!!!" thing again?