Netflix Is Not Going to Kill Piracy, Research Suggests

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Megalith, Dec 2, 2017.

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  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    Generally speaking, on-demand streaming services are convenient alternatives to piracy. However, millions of people stick to their old pirate habits, Netflix subscription or not: new research shows that while legal streaming services are commonly used nowadays, the limited availability of recent content and the associated price tag are serious hurdles for many pirates.

    To measure the effects of video-on-demand access on piracy, researchers monitored the legal viewing activity and BitTorrent transfers of people who received a free 45-day subscription to a premium TV and movies package, comparing it to a control group. Subscribers who received the free subscription watched more TV, but overall their torrenting habits didn’t change significantly.
     
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  2. Cyraxx

    Cyraxx [H]ardness Supreme

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    Obvious reasons as to why are right in front of you:
    1) We don't just want streaming. We want CONVENIENT streaming. Netflix is very limited in what they are able to provide. They are trying to expand and build their own shows, but if you want to watch HBO's Game of Thrones, you have to download HBO's streaming program, pay them $15/month, etc... On top of that, switching between streaming programs is a pain in the ass. A good example of this is music streaming, there wasn't a difference in music between Pandora and Spotify like there is between Netflix and Amazon Prime streaming.
    2) Due to ISPs, bandwidth allocations, fees for using more bandwidth, and general speed limitations is a hindrance to streaming.
    3) Streaming requires buying a separate device a lot of times

    So in the end with all those problems I listed, it's no fucking wonder casually downloading a torrent in whatever format and quality you desire (with no commercials) is a no brainer. I'll take my Linux distros streamed over Plex a million times over.
     
  3. Aireoth

    Aireoth Gawd

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    Nothing will stop piracy, the goal should not be to stop it, but to minimize it.
     
  4. dark_reign

    dark_reign [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yup, recent content from various TV networks usually takes 6-12 months to appear on Netflix. Pirate streaming / torrent sites have the most recent episode available within an hour after airing.
     
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  5. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

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    Pirates = we want everything for free, right now. Pirates are generally spoiled babies, that want to leech of society.


    Theres no way to stop them.. Fix a problem they'll come up with another excuse.

    Just look at the people already responding to this thread.
     
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  6. htpc_user

    htpc_user [H]ard|Gawd

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    When Netflix started offering it's own content it was OK to have an alternative to the shows you already knew. Now everything that shows in my tiles are Netflix originals. I think eventually it's just going to be their stuff. At that point, I'm out.
     
  7. Glock24

    Glock24 n00bie

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    Viewing pirated content is far more convenient than (legally) steaming content. This is for to many factors, the most relevant are: region locking, content availability, content suddenly dissapearing from a streaming service and fragmentation. You need like 5 subscriptions to different services to watch popular shows or movies. You find all those shows and movies in one place with pirate streaming programs, and with a friendlier interface to begin with. It's not all about money, it's about convenience.
     
  8. dandirk

    dandirk [H]ard|Gawd

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    I am a pirate and would LOVE to pay A provider for content (heck I would even take a service that collates and gives one UI for your fragmented streaming needs)... Was begging for netflix to have higher price packages with more content.

    I pirated early in life with less disposable income.

    Netflix streaming came out and got content, stopped pirating and got netflix.

    Netflix then started to lose content (that I watch at least) overall but make their own shows... I am now a pirate again.

    I have amazon as well, and that imo is a shitshow of a app/streaming service. The user experience is pretty bad imo.

    While pirating is now almost as easy as streaming I still would prefer streaming if it wasn't so fragmented.

    Those that wanted a la carte content for cable is pretty much getting the "corporate" vision of that now. I personally would prefer packages in streaming format.
     
  9. deton8

    deton8 Limp Gawd

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    Of course Netflix won't stop piracy. Even if it was free, some people would balk at the selection. And if it had everything, some people would balk at the interface and options for delivery.

    You can't please all the people all the time. The point of something like Netflix is to capture the low hanging fruit of people who are not that picky and somewhat lazy.
     
  10. Hornet

    Hornet [H]ardness Supreme

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    As others have mentioned, nothing will be able to eradicate piracy, but you can certainly minimize it.
    In this regard, the movie industry still have a lot to improve on, especially when it comes to fragmentation of online streaming services.

    Unlike video games where multiple distribution services just means you have more clients to run, online streaming would mean you have to pay more every month, and this is where the movie industry is doing it wrong, IMO.
     
  11. steakman1971

    steakman1971 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I think some people are going to pirate no matter what. Services like Netflix/Hulu/etc offer a decent selection and nice service. It would be nice to get more content quicker.
    At that point, why bother pirating (assuming it is under $15 a month to pay for the extra content). No server or hard drives to maintain, don't have to torrent/usenet, really no extra work.
     
  12. lilbabycat

    lilbabycat 2[H]4U

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    Spot on. I do not have cable. The wifey wants Hallmark channel. My options are: Buy Cable at the 3rd tier (+$99/mo), Try to get it over Kodi (+4hrs of effort every month or so staying ahead of regulators for a spotty stream that she doesn't like messing with), PS Vue (+$45/mo for 1 hallmark, $55/mo for all 3), Sling ($20/mo +$5/mo), or some others around the same price points. So my best choice is $25/mo. Just for her to watch Hallmark channel, which is then using a bit of my internet bandwidth.

     
  13. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

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    Thanks for proving my point. Pirates will always move the goal posts.
     
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  14. M76

    M76 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm looking at them. Speaking from their posh chairs having access to all the shows on day one, no effort, they have plenty of disposable income. And they'd preach, oh how they'd preach at the people who have been deemed second class or third class citizens by content creators:

    No, sire, you were born in the wrong place, you don't get fresh content, and the content you get, you have to pay extra for, you know, we will just convert $ : € at 1:1 for the sake of convenience, we'll also raise it by 10-20% for good measure! You have to know your place after all, as the pesky european you are!
    How dare you request equal treatment? What gives you the right? We have no idea why can't you wait 6-12 months more (or indefinitely) and pay extra for it?
    Especially if you're from the less fortunate region from behind the iron curtain! We know salaries are about one fifth there of the US standard, we'll still charge you the same inflated price as the richest western european countries!
    Oh, and what's that? You want access to content offline, without the constant issues of bad PQ due to reduced streaming speeds? Hey joe get a load of this! The pesky european thinks he can get treated as a customer instead of a potential thief!
    You see we do everything in our power to stop piracy, but somehow it just doesn't work!
     
  15. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

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    Off your meds? Seems like you are foaming at the mouth.

    1) its entertainment, there is no need to have any off it.
    2) the content creators own that content, it should be on them to distribute it how they want to, they own it.

    But please continue thinking you are somehow owed whatever someone else created, at a price, and method of delivery that you feel is owed you.
     
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  16. GoldenTiger

    GoldenTiger 3.5GB GTX 970 Slayer

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    Well said. Also, very true about them moving the goalposts if you pin them down on one excuse.
     
  17. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It is the job of the content providers to provide content in a way the viewer wants. If the viewer doesn't like that service then they are under no obligation to buy it. Content companies can't keep screaming about piracy without ignoring all the potential avenues to reduce it. If people can't afford it or are simply not allowed to access it for some stupid bullshit reason (region locks are complete and utter bullshit, by the way) then they're going to find ways to do so. Content companies can either comply or get fucked. Hollywood seems to enjoy choosing the second option at every opportunity. Can't say I feel an ounce of pity for the morons that refuse to pull the blinders off and offer content in a fashion that will have a negative impact on piracy and a positive one on their bottom line.
     
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  18. MavericK

    MavericK Zero Cool

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    To expand on that, the goal should be to offer convenience and price of services to encourage people to choose them over piracy, not attempt to implement anti-piracy bullshit that never works.
     
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  19. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    It's like they are reading threads on [H] and writing stories just for us.
     
  20. M76

    M76 [H]ardness Supreme

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    It was ironic dramatization, and it went way above your head it seems.

    The point is not that "they owe me entertainment" the point is that "they owe me equal treatment as a customer" They can't pick and choose what they sell to who, they must sell the same content to everyone indiscriminately with the same conditions.

    imagine this scenario: I owe a parts store, someone comes in and I tell them "no you can't buy that part, that is reserved to US citizens only!" Then how can I have the audacity to go and whine if the person I turned away goes somewhere else to get what he wants?

    Of course those who are in the privileged group are easy to talk down to those who are outside of it. Telling them entertainment is not needed, sure then why don't you give it up? And you're wrong about entertainment not being a need anyway. It is one of the stabilizing factors of society. Distracting people from their everyday problems giving them release. Have you not heard the phrase "bread and circuses" ?

    And here is another nail in the coffin of the pirates will be pirates argument: How is it that I don't pirate any videogames? Surely if I do it because I can, then I should be pirating all the games I can, no? Especially considering that games are significantly more expensive than streaming services.

    I tell you why: Supply coincides with demand. That's all there is to it. But if games were only available trough a convoluted inconvenient streaming service where half (that's a very lenient estimate of the current state of streaming) the games were "not available from your region" , then I'm sure as hell would look for alternative ways to get games.
     
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  21. bigstusexy

    bigstusexy 2[H]4U

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    Of course Netflix won't stop piracy; the biggest reason is that the industry won't let it.

    The content they will allow Netflix to have or not is a big impact. All the articles of "oh my gosh what's leaving netlfix" shows this. Also there are no deals that seem to be that this is where older things go when they have left the other places. This is true of all digital services like this though. Why can't I find every song ever released on my music streaming services?

    The last mile providers are no longer happy being just that. They want more profits and are doing all they can to squeeze it out of anything they can.

    There are other reasons but I believe these are the biggest and the ones that are from playing the game.
     
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  22. nysmo

    nysmo Gawd

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    True. The only time I pirate is when I feel slighted by the various stream offerings. My biggest pet peeve is this whole nonsense to "buy it now" before it's even available to "rent". Some new movie will come out available to stream for $15 with buying it as your only option. Well if I can buy a digital copy and stream it for life, that means you already have it in your distribution network available to rent, you're just holding out on me hoping that my impatience will trigger me to buy rather than wait 2 weeks to stream. Fuck that. The moment you have the content it should be available to rent or buy. I understand buying it in case you will watch it multiple times. But they know most of us only watch once, so theyre trying to con us into paying $15 for a single stream that we would otherwise have paid $5 for. When that happens, I head straight to TPB.
     
  23. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

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    What right do you have to that content without paying?

    If the owner is stupid and makes it hard to get, that it should be that owners right.
     
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  24. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

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    They don't owe you jack.

    If someone doesn't want to sell you shit, that should be up to them (unless you are a by law protected class)

    If we are going to play your absurd parts store analogy, by your logic if the owner doesn't sell a part to you, your ok with breaking in and stealing it.
     
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  25. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ardForum Junkie

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    People will get things however they want. If the owners are stupid about it then they're going to have to put up with more piracy. If they're intelligent then they will reduce it. Its that simple. Piracy will never go away, but it can be minimized by companies being smart about it. If they want to be difficult about it then they have to deal with the consequences of their actions. No one is saying they don't have the right to do what they want, but if they don't adapt to the demands of consumers then consumers will find a way to watch the content they want. The music industry finally learned, now it's time for Hollywood to figure it out. If they want to make money then they need to offer products that customers want for fair prices that customers are willing to pay. Consumers are not required to put up with whatever crap Hollywood wants to do. A business adapts to the needs and demands of the consumer, not the other way around.
     
  26. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    Netflix is overrated to be honest, I got rid of it because it never has up to date tv show episodes. Instead I opted to pay $12/mo for Hulu and am enjoying the selection there a lot more.
     
  27. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

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    Still waiting for someone to tell me what right they have to whatever content they want, in whatever format they want, at whatever price they want, or else they will take it for free.


    Not going to hold my breath.
     
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  28. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It doesn't matter if people have the right to or not. They will do it if they can't get the content they want in a fairly priced, convenient manner. That is the reality of the situation. If content companies want to curb that then they need to meet consumer demand.
     
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  29. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

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    Of course it matters. You say it doesn't because it helps your argument, if you admit that people don't have a right to that content, then you have to admit owners should be able to distribute it as they wish.


    Pirates demand content for free. They aren't being consumers, and shouldn't be rewarded.
     
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  30. sparks

    sparks 2[H]4U

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    they have remove almost all good shows, most movies are 1 or 2 star rating junk that didn't cost them anything
    Some of their originals are ok.
    None of this can cover the rate hikes they are doing.

    about the piracy. I have FX on my tv but I missed most of American Horror story this year. (lots of things caused me to miss and even miss recording)
    I have 2 options to view something I pay for, wait till next year or pirate it.
    Is that a good thing???
     
  31. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I say it doesn't matter because it doesn't. Whether or not people have a right to pirate content is irrelevant because they do so already. Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, iTunes, Vudu, etc have proven that there are millions of people willing to pay fair prices for content. Convenient and fairly priced access to content does have an effect on piracy. It does reduce the people going that route to consume media. Music streaming services have done such a good job of it that a lot of the talk and fear around music piracy has faded away. Music piracy still happens, a lot of people use Youtube to listen to music, but it is nowhere near the level it used to be. The music industry learned to adapt and found ways to make the internet work for them. Hollywood is still resisting.
     
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  32. NeoNemesis

    NeoNemesis [H]ard|Gawd

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    It seems like these threads come up every few weeks with the same arguments being tossed back and forth.

    1) Piracy sucks.

    2) Piracy is the only reason we aren't still buying full CDs loaded with filler or renting DVDs at Blockbuster. It's forced the various media producing industries to adapt, and that's good for everyone.

    I subscribe to 3 video streaming services and when I can't find what I want on one of them I will pirate it.
     
  33. M76

    M76 [H]ardness Supreme

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    In my country by law you're obligated to sell the product to anyone. You can't refuse a customer after you put your shit up for sale.
    You telling me they don't owe me something you already get, is the height of hypocrisy. I can't believe that if you were in the same shoes you'd simply shut up and say: hey, they don't owe me anything, I'm fine with this.
    Oh the good old stealing argument, that had been killed more thoroughly than roadkill. Admit it you're just being obnoxious, you know exactly I didn't mean breaking and entering. Since you can make copies of a movie without harming anyone or any property.
    That example was just to show, that if someone refuses to serve you you'll go to another store to get what you want, and they forfeit the right to complain about it.

    Yes I'll pirate while they outright refuse to give me equal and fair treatment. Is that what you want to hear? And I consider it returning the favor, you fucked with me I'll fuck with you! And thanks to a loophole where I live it is technically legal.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017 at 5:01 AM
  34. westrock2000

    westrock2000 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Well, there’s this.....and I love it.

    [​IMG]
     
  35. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

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    They don't owe you anything. If they don't want to sell to your country well they are missing out on your money, but if they own control of that product it should be their right. If the product is for sale in your country they you wouldn't pirate? Oh its not for sale in the format you want? so you pirate?


    your example was terrible, and as such I followed your terrible example. If we use your new example, if no store sells an item in your country do you go somewhere else to steal it?

    You are just a big cry baby that when you don't get things your way you 'steal' them.
     
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  36. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

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    It matters you just don't want to admit that pirates are wrong.

    What is a fair price? for pirates its 0. Is that fair?
     
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  37. __hollywood|meow

    __hollywood|meow [H]ard|Gawd

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    pirates circumvent a corrupt system that treats customers like garbage.
     
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  38. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

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    So what? You have no right, nor need for that content. You'll live fine without that movie or game, or song. Buy from companies that you feel treat you better.


    Pirates sound like big babies. 'mommy mommy I want it, I needs it, I don't wants to payz for it, waaa waa waa'.

    Grow up.
     
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  39. dark_reign

    dark_reign [H]ard|Gawd

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    Hollywood rakes in billions by shoveling the same shit in your face every year. 99.9% of it is worth $0. Is getting ripped off fair?
     
  40. nysmo

    nysmo Gawd

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    Fuck anyone who uses predatory practices. It's like a form of price gouging. Theyre jacking up the price for the same product that costs them the same to acquire and deliver on the hopes that some sucker cant wait. When the grocery store gets fresh produce does the price go up for everyone who shops early that morning? You have 2 options, buy or rent, both of which deliver the content exactly the same. They are deliberately limiting supply and then complaining when people find an alternative, so fuck em. You want to charge me $5 next week? Well here's my $5 now, take it or leave it, because you arent getting any more.
     
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