Need recommendations for a reliable internal 4TB drive

Discussion in 'SSDs & Data Storage' started by peppergomez, Jan 31, 2016.

  1. peppergomez

    peppergomez Gawd

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    After the fiasco with the POS Seagate Barracude 3TB drives, I am looking for 4 4TB drives with which to create a RAID 5.


    I read this article https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-stats-for-q2-2015/
    and am considering HGST 4TB drives. I saw these on New Egg:

    https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-stats-for-q2-2015/

    though I note that they are NAS drives...not sure if that is appropriate for my needs (a single desktop computer) and/or if I can reformat them as I need to (NTFS).

    At any rate, if folks have suggestions for a good 4TB drive brand/model, that would be helpful, thanks.
     
  2. peppergomez

    peppergomez Gawd

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    Ha. Nice. While it's true that I didn't mention price, that is of course ridiculous. Were you trolling me?
    I am looking for consumer-level products, the kind that are within the prices of other HDD drives.
     
  3. wtourist

    wtourist [H]ard|Gawd

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    HDD Reputations often trail reality. And we often go by previous experience. That said:
    Last I knew HGST are as good as it gets.
     
  4. Brian_B

    Brian_B 2[H]4U

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    HGST has had the best reliability scores of the big 3 (HGST, WD, Seagate). Seagate has some models that are absolutely abysmal, and some that are average. WD is mostly average.

    https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-stats-for-q2-2015/

    In a RAID5, I wouldn't pay a whole lot more for extra reliability - in the recent past I've went with whatever was cheaper between WD and HGST.

    I have 4 3TB WD Reds in my NAS right now, they have been going for over a year. When I first got them, all 4 of them failed - I attributed it to Newegg's crappy shipping method at the time (they arrived wrapped in a single piece of bubble wrap thrown together in a big box. WD was good with the fast RMA, and the replacement drives (which were packed and shipped properly) have been working well since. The WD 2TB Greens we have at work (about 15 of them), while slower than crap, have been going well for going on 5 years now in various application, with only one failure (around year 4 for that particular drive).

    Although I'm a relatively small sample size, I have about 6 HGST drives across various machines, I've not lost one of those yet.

    I haven't put any Seagates into anything in a long while.
     
  5. peppergomez

    peppergomez Gawd

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  6. Brian_B

    Brian_B 2[H]4U

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    The only difference between a NAS drive and a desktop drive is a bit of firmware tuning - either will work for either purpose with extremely little degradation in performance.
     
  7. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    All companies according to back blaze has kind of equalize with HGST as the best. But most people are still weary of Seagate. So WD, HGST, Toshiba are solid. HGST is the best ATM. Toshiba is a great drive for the budget. either get 3TB or 5TB as those are the best bang for the money in regards to toshiba but they MUST BE RETAIL. I cant stress that enough. bare bones are terrible. Probably shipping is the problem
     
  8. evilsofa

    evilsofa [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I bought a 4TB HGST NAS drive (the 0S03664 you've linked) for my desktop PC, formatted it as NTFS, and it works perfectly. Yes, you can format as NTFS.

    Being used in RAID, such as the RAID 5 array you are intending, is precisely what a NAS drive is tuned for. And, as Brian_B notes, that tuning does not significantly affect using a single drive for regular desktop use.

    Were you planning on booting from your HDDs in RAID 5? An SSD would be preferable for your OS drive if at all possible.
     
  9. peppergomez

    peppergomez Gawd

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    OK thanks folks

    @evilsofa

    I currently have a 4 SSD Intel RAID 5 setup in my system for my OS/C drive. These 4 HGST 4 TB RAID 5 drives would be for storage (my photography- www.madheiress.com is my site, and for music, media and games).

    I'll order these drives then. Thanks.
     
  10. diizzy

    diizzy 2[H]4U

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    Toshiba HDDs are actually a bit more friendly when hooking up them with LSI HBAs/RAID cards than most other brands. HGST isn't bad either but I would by far have a look at Toshiba first. Keep in mind that all drives dies so keep backups and/or use RAID is data is important.
     
  11. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    and for the love of god only buy retail box ones. The bare bones drop like flies according to reviews. Safe to assume its how they are packaged and shipped. Oh also retail tends to be cheaper too when sales go on -_-
     
  12. peppergomez

    peppergomez Gawd

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    thanks folks. I bought 4 retail boxed HGST 4 TB drives
     
  13. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    nice solid choice! Rocking the Toshibas but i am on a tight budget :D
     
  14. Aesma

    Aesma [H]ard|Gawd

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    What about backup ? RAID is not backup.
     
  15. Technical_Advisor

    Technical_Advisor [H]Lite

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    No, they are actually very nice drives and I have used them myself.
     
  16. peppergomez

    peppergomez Gawd

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    I have about 8 older drives, both internal and external. Thinking I will reformat them and then copy my data to them for backup. I should be able to make two full backups.

    Naive question,: does reformatting an HDD extend its life at all?
     
  17. diizzy

    diizzy 2[H]4U

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    No, it doesn't.
     
  18. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    you can use programs like HDD Sentinel to run scans to find bad sectors and see what shape the drive is in though. There are clear signs of aging and dying drives. AKA 1000+ bad sectors is a bad drive...at least one i would not trust. 2 full passes with no new found bad sectors with a total of 80 bad sectors shows a stable but older drive.

    at least my two cents. Please someone with more knowledge in this area elaborate or correct me if I am wrong/mistaken. dizzy/trimlock or the likes.
     
  19. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    Good choice.
    Even better if they are NAS version as they are a quality tier above, designed to be run 24x7.
    I'm running one in my PC (only 6 months old but no issues running 24x7), my father has one in his new PC and another for backup.

    When I first read the backblaze reports over 3 years ago, I bought an external HGST 4TB drive for backups and that has been flawless too.
     
  20. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    i personally have yet to see any salt behind the statements NAS drive as being better than a desktop drive as a rule of thumb
     
  21. evilsofa

    evilsofa [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Would it be accurate to say that NAS drives are more reliable than desktop drives as a rule of thumb?
     
  22. Brian_B

    Brian_B 2[H]4U

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    I lean towards what SomeGuy133 says - I think it's more marketing to see if they can get us to pay $10 more per drive. I guess in WD's case you get an extra year on the warranty - but I'm of the school that says if you need to use that warranty, you're already screwed.

    I haven't seen any evidence that they are more reliable in any use case, and they certainly aren't appreciably better in benchmarks.

    That being said, my NAS has Reds in it right now.
     
  23. izx

    izx Limp Gawd

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    It really depends on the specs. Look at objective metrics like the unrecoverable bit error rate, load cycles and MTBF first. Then warranty. Then additional features like "rotational vibration compensation", etc. And finally, don't forget TLER/CCTL support if they are going into a hardware RAID.

    Consider the Red Pro NAS drives, whose desktop equivalent would be the Black series - - they are better using the above and, for 6TB, carry a $10 premium.

    The same goes for Seagate's NAS series (which are more enterprise-y drives) versus the desktop 5900 rpm ones; at 6 TB, you're looking at a $50+ premium.

    I havent looked at specs for HGST & Toshiba; will add those later.

    From some research (focused on 6TB models), I'm getting the impression that it's better to spend a little more for NAS drives with an enterprise heritage, versus those with a consumer heritage (like the regular Reds). Of course, that assumes you can live with the power and heat side-effects of 7200rpm.
     
  24. Vengance_01

    Vengance_01 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Just don't buy HDDs from Newegg. Their packaging is terrible!
     
  25. Bigdady92

    Bigdady92 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm quite pleased with my Toshiba drives. Quiet and Cool even at 7200RPM.
     
  26. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    Now if thats the case I would have to agree. If there is an inherent difference on the hardware level yes get that if you need that but otherwise it seems like a P&G labeling the same product 5 different ways to push sales because most people are stupid. But hardware RAID is also only needed for hardware RAID. People need to understand when that premium is actually needed. I am going to use SnapRAID and those added features dont do anything for me (well some of them)


    Above 7200rpm temps:

    Again apples to oranges....Zooterkins, of course 7200rpm will be hotter than 5400 rpm but they will also be a crap load faster. I have 13 toshibas in a case and they idle like 30-36C and under 2 day burn testing of non stop reads and writes they hit 37-41C max. That is not warm or hot. Quite cool and my case isn't even closed so my fans aren't even working right. Those temps will be even lower once case is sealed.

    Worthless badgering of solid drives for no reason and no basis. Don't buy crappy cases? My case isn't even high airflow :/


    Don't buy bare bone drives....fixed that for you.
     
  27. extide

    extide 2[H]4U

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    There is no such thing as a reliable hard drive. Always put them in a redundant array and keep data in an additional location. Preferably double parity, as with large drives going single parity is pretty nearly a death wish.
     
  28. CaptNumbNutz

    CaptNumbNutz Bulls[H]it Master

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    Which is odd because Western Digital bought HGST in 2012. It's almost as if WD left HGST exactly as it was with their factories, personnel, quality control, equipment all the same and just left them to keep doing their thing.

    Whatever it is that HGST does right, WD obviously noticed. HGST definitely had a tough hill to climb since they were created from the remains of IBM's drive business after the [strike=1]Deathstar[/s] Deskstar fiasco.
     
  29. extide

    extide 2[H]4U

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    Yeah they do seem to be separate manufacturing facilities and building separate drives, because they have totally different designs, even if you just set them next to each other they look totally different. I guess they can take the good stuff from each company and apply it to the other.
     
  30. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    your dreaming boss...life is not that good :D
     
  31. izx

    izx Limp Gawd

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    Yeah, it's pretty much like an independent subsidiary. HGST pioneered the helium drives and it's only trickling down to WD. I do wish they'd incorporated WD's advance-replacement-friendly RMA policy though!
     
  32. izx

    izx Limp Gawd

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    Funnily enough, HGST seems to have EOL'd their regular desktop drives--they never made them in capacities above 4TB either. The only current desktop drives are the "Desktop NAS" (Deskstar) drives.

    The 5TB/6TB HGST NAS drives, however, appear to have an excellent pedigree, based upon the Ultrastar 7K6000 series. There's no desktop equivalent comparison, since one isn't made, and the 7K6000s are enterprise drives carrying a $100+ premium.

    Well, the only one that doesn't matter is CCTL/TLER support. The higher UBER and warranty just goes to show the faith the company has in the product's design, compared to consumer drives.
     
  33. evilsofa

    evilsofa [H]ardForum Junkie

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    HGST is WD's prestige brand now. You don't expect Toyota's Lexus brand or Honda's Acura brand to make $12,000 econobox cars.
     
  34. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    the UBER is a nice thing to have no doubt but for my use it isn't worth the premium. I wish i could have the enterprise level UBER because we all know those stats are uber :p sorry bad mom joke :D
     
  35. izx

    izx Limp Gawd

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    :D I'm going to try to get an HGST 6TB NAS drive and do repeated full-disk reads to figure out if its UBER is really uber like its enterprise 7K6000 big brother or more pedestrian...
     
  36. YeuEmMaiMai

    YeuEmMaiMai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I use exclusively WD drives and the last one I had fail was back in 2000... I still have functional 320GB 500GB and a 1TB drive that gets used on a daily basis.... My WD 4TB NAS is nearing 5 years old and it is still kicking...
     
  37. izx

    izx Limp Gawd

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    I used to have similar brand loyalty to Seagate (still have a 1994 1GB IDE that works fine) until the 7200.11 fiasco. Since then, I try to go by price/negative reviews and prefer redundancy. I have had a horrible experience with the WD Green drives though (no RAID use).