Need Pro advice! Swicthes, PoE+, Managed, Gig. First timer, too many choices...

ertz

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Jul 3, 2020
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Hello everybody,
I'm new here, after looking around which forums to join to get some help/feedback, this one looked the most promising so that's the only one I joined.

I will be installing two PTZ POE Cameras outside my house.
A) Amcrest Outdoor PTZ POE Camera
> PoE+ (802.3at)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0797583C...olid=3KUR371SRJOCP&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

B) PTZ POE 5MP Security IP Camera Mini Dome Surveillance H.265 Camera
> PoE (802.3af)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HL15KG...colid=3KUR371SRJOCP&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1

Now I need to get a Switch with PoE+. Looking for minimum of 8 ports max 16 (Gigabit) with at least 4 PoE+ (802.3at) ports. Would be better if it was desktop, but rack one would do just fine even though it wouldn't be rack mounted. Managed would be great or at least Smart Managed. And some what quiet, it will be located in the office not that far from me. My budget is ~$120, but if there is one that you know is "amazing" I can go up to ~$160. Before you say it, I know I'm asking a lot for such a budget, just when I add everything I'm trying to build the total price exceeds my original budget twice...

I never had a "REAL Switch" (apart from 20 year old 5 port pass thru) so been burning my eyes out for few days learning and doing research for hours and hours. There is a LOT of choices, read couple hundred reviews... But the deeper I go the worse it gets, so before I make any random purchase just to get it over and have my life back I thought would check this Forum and ask you guys for advice! Please, I haven't seen my kids in 5 days (we live in the same house, I just haven't left my office) I don't even think they know I'm here...
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Here is few that made my list:
NETGEAR GC108PP 8-port Gigabit Ethernet Smart Managed Pro PoE Switch with Insight Cloud Management - With 8 x PoE+ @ 126W - $120
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SHJ8J5...olid=3KUR371SRJOCP&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

NETGEAR GC108PP 8 x PoE+ @ 126W Gig Smart Managed Pro PoE Switch with Insight Cloud Management - $120
https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Insi...s=GC108PP&qid=1593851437&s=electronics&sr=1-1

NETGEAR GS408EPP 8 X Poe+ @ 124W, Gigabit Ethernet PoE+ Smart Managed Plus Switch - $110
https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Giga...ild=1&keywords=GS408EPP&qid=1593848259&sr=8-1

TP-Link TL-SG1016PE 16-Port Gigabit PoE+ Easy Smart Managed Switch with 110W 8-PoE Ports $135 (this one seems like a great deal to me, opinions?)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0721V1TG...olid=3KUR371SRJOCP&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it - $135
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Thank You in advance !
 
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I'd stick with the Smart+ Netgear. Anything that has 'cloud' in it means that it has provisions for communicating outside of your network; there are advantages to this, but not really for a single-switch deployment.
 
I was looking at the dlink DGS-1010MP, only thing I don't like about it personally is it's a bit big and the max budget is 125w (~15w per port if you use all 8), but that's pretty standard in these price-points, I guess.

I have the 5-port DGS-1100-05, but I haven't set it up yet. Doesn't do ipv6 or ACLs, only 1 gigabit uplink, but otherwise it's a fine switch. You could technically daisy chain two of these together and have what you want, and with just one power brick, since these support being powered via PoE too (the box says "physical stacking" isn't supported, but I think they mean literally stacking the switches). Only downside being they'd have to be individually configured.
 
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I'd stick with the Smart+ Netgear. Anything that has 'cloud' in it means that it has provisions for communicating outside of your network; there are advantages to this, but not really for a single-switch deployment.
Thank You for letting me know about the cloud. So from the list you recommend NETGEAR GS408EPP 8 X Poe+ @ 124W ? Is there any other switches you know that are better then the ones I listed? Looks like i might be over thinking this :)
 
Thank You for letting me know about the cloud. So from the list you recommend NETGEAR GS408EPP 8 X Poe+ @ 124W ? Is there any other switches you know that are better then the ones I listed? Looks like i might be over thinking this :)
Well, you are overthinking it, to a degree. You need PoE... assume you need more ports as well, so might as well get a switch that does those two things.

The rest devolves into what else you want to do. A big one would be VLANs, but really that requires a configurable router in the mix too, as well as knowledge of networks and subnets to make everything talk to only what it all should.

Now, any switch you get can be set to be 'dumb', and the cost for a 'smart' switch just isn't that much more.

But here's another angle: you're only getting a handful of cameras. You could just as easily get PoE injectors, which while requiring separate power supplies, would mean that you could use any switch. As you've likely noticed, PoE switches in the 8+ port range go for somewhere between US$100 and US$200 before you get to the 'enterprise' brands like HPE.

So the question is, do you want it to just work, or are you interested in jumping further down the rabbit hole?
 
Well, you are overthinking it, to a degree. You need PoE... assume you need more ports as well, so might as well get a switch that does those two things.

The rest devolves into what else you want to do. A big one would be VLANs, but really that requires a configurable router in the mix too, as well as knowledge of networks and subnets to make everything talk to only what it all should.

Now, any switch you get can be set to be 'dumb', and the cost for a 'smart' switch just isn't that much more.

But here's another angle: you're only getting a handful of cameras. You could just as easily get PoE injectors, which while requiring separate power supplies, would mean that you could use any switch. As you've likely noticed, PoE switches in the 8+ port range go for somewhere between US$100 and US$200 before you get to the 'enterprise' brands like HPE.

So the question is, do you want it to just work, or are you interested in jumping further down the rabbit hole?
I'm getting it not only for cameras, good thing I didn't get it before camera idea came to live, would of not bought switch with the more then 2 PoE+ ports (and would of been regular PoE), and knowing myself still would of spent around same amount like planning right now.

My WiFi router is out of ports, plus all together I want to start redoing home network. Yes, a VLANs will be deff a MUST, it's long overdue to put all that Google smart junk on a diff LAN away from my important stuff. Will be adding Access Points as well (Will need to make new post about that too :)). VoiP phone will be there too. Thinking about Firewall but, thats 55/45 at this point. Currently have 2 ThinkPads, 2 Servers (Blade and Tower), printer etc. You were right !!! IdiotInCharge assume you need more ports as well.

You were right! IdiotInCharge assume you need more ports as well. I just realized now that 8 ports is not enough for me, already just counted 11-12 things that will be plugged in... into the new switch 🙄.... Well haven't slept this July yet, might be the reason for miscalculation.

However 16 would be enough for me for a "while". So now I'm looking all the same but 16 ports. I assume with "smart" I would be able to work with VLANS.
So now since we changed to 16 ports and (Smart or Fully Managed, waiting on reply) plus a good one, I think it's fair to up the price, $160 would be nice, but if someone vouches that "this one is superb..." then max is $220.

Any suggestions guys? I want to get it tonight and buying beer for you :)
 
If you're using a 'WiFi router', then you'll likely want to replace that. You'll need firewalling and routing functionality at least, and then you can add the PoE switch and APs and cameras and so on.

However, I'd recommend starting with just the switch and the cameras. Get something with enough ports for your PoE devices and with VLAN capability and call it a day; you're going to spend plenty of time just getting that stuff working well, and you want that all figured out before you start doing other stuff.
 
If you're using a 'WiFi router', then you'll likely want to replace that. You'll need firewalling and routing functionality at least, and then you can add the PoE switch and APs and cameras and so on.

However, I'd recommend starting with just the switch and the cameras. Get something with enough ports for your PoE devices and with VLAN capability and call it a day; you're going to spend plenty of time just getting that stuff working well, and you want that all figured out before you start doing other stuff.
So what should I get? What's your recommendation? 16 ports , minimum 4 PoE+. VLAN must, probbly should be managed and not smart, since there will be AP's and VoiP later on. Any idea which exact make and model should I get?
 
It depends on the number of ports you need and poe power. I have a 16 port 150w. I only have 3 aps and 2 phones using power. For me, that’s all I need.

As for them being slow on firmwares, it’s a switch. Unless their patching security vulnerabilities, it’s a switch. Even $20 gbs switches will do wire speed.
 
It depends on the number of ports you need and poe power. I have a 16 port 150w. I only have 3 aps and 2 phones using power. For me, that’s all I need.

As for them being slow on firmwares, it’s a switch. Unless their patching security vulnerabilities, it’s a switch. Even $20 gbs switches will do wire speed.
Well then you have exactly what I need pretty much. 16 ports, 150W is great, that means I can power couple PoE+ 802.3at devices. And I assume you have managed? So what model you have?
 
I looked at it before, it fits my needs well, but the price is a bit high. Is there some other specific models with "similar" specs you can recommend, from other companies?
What do you think about this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0721V1TG...colid=3KUR371SRJOCP&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1

And can I use two switches, like one 8 port regular non PoE managed/smart and lets say 5 port PoE+ unmanned but each from different companies. Or what would be the best scenario in this case?
 
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So is the only POE+ device you have that Armcrest camera? If yes then I certainly wouldn't worry about POE+. It's still a small amount of the market, and given your other requirements you are looking for a unicorn at this point. I don't think you can find a 16 port POE+ switch that's also managed and under $200. Drop the POE+ requirement and your options open up again.

For $30 you can get an injector:
https://www.amazon.com/TRENDnet-Ethernet-Injector-Distances-TPE-115GI/dp/B00BK4W8TQ

That will handle the one oddball camera, and basically any other camera or AP will likely only require POE and not POE+. Only the really big PTZs have that requirement, most normal cameras are like 4 or 5w. I don't know of a POE+ AP unless maybe some of the Tri-radio APs require it.

Comments:

The Netgear is probably the first choice, but I'm not sure about their cloud managed switches. I don't know enough about those if they can be used stand alone or they require you to use the cloud portal. I'm not really fond of cloud requirement for home use as you'll probably use it until it dies. In a business it's a different story if you're going to replace the hardware every x years anyway. If it seems okay that would probably be my first choice. (Obviously your requirements have changed, but you can still get the GS116PP for $200, so within your budget still)

The TP-Link is a decent deal. They are generally a low budget company, so I'd expect them to be very competitive on price. The biggest detractor is that "easy smart" is marketing for stripped down light version. It makes me think that you'll have a hard time getting it to actually do what you want. I've dealt with stripped down switches that have limited configs that only work through wizards, so I'd be cautiously optimistic about how well the UI is on it. Otherwise it does check a lot of boxes and I've had decent luck with some of their stuff I've bought.

If it were me I'd probably just blow your budget completely and pick up a GS728TPP.
https://www.newegg.com/netgear-gs72...-1000base-x-fiber-sfp-ports/p/N82E16833122979

24 ports, POE+, 190W power, 4 SFP ports, fully managed and no cloud requirement. If you can throw $300 at a camera then throwing $300 at a switch to manage your entire network isn't a huge stretch. I'd probably recommend doing that over cobbling together a POE+ switch, another managed switch to try to make up one useful device. Otherwise one of the first two 16 ports are probably okay, or getting some other POE switch and one POE+ injector for the one device that would require it.
 
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So is the only POE+ device you have that Armcrest camera? If yes then I certainly wouldn't worry about POE+. It's still a small amount of the market, and given your other requirements you are looking for a unicorn at this point. I don't think you can find a 16 port POE+ switch that's also managed and under $200. Drop the POE+ requirement and your options open up again.
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Appreciate your reply/recommendations very much!
No, those two cameras are not the only PoE devices (now looks like it's gonna be 3 cameras), plus one AP for now, VoiP and some other 1 or 2 low power devices.
So couple hours before seeing your reply I actually said it screw it and bought Unifi Switch USW-16-POE | Gen2. You were correct, I can't cheap out on something that's gonna be running the whole network so went way over the first budget amount, came out like $320. Hope you don't think I made a bad decision, considering the headache i went thru this past week. However time didn't go to waste and with all the research about switches themselves my knowledge improved a lot, since it was pretty much zero... The Unifi managment GUI looks pretty friendly for beginner like me, so does the actual device, it will sit next to me and is fan-less. After reading huge amount of reviews, it reminded me of iOS and Android people, either you love it or hate it.
Now I'm thinking about ditching the wireless router provided by my ISP. Whats my best options in your opinion? Just buying a better WRouter or there is better way? Currently have Verizon Gig up & down with Fios-G1100 WRouter and NETGEAR WiFi Mesh Range Extender EX7500 (which thought would perform way better) specially in a one level small three bedroom house.
 
Good luck, I went down the ubiquiti rabbit hole too starting with their switch, now I'm running all their stuff pretty much been solid for years now.
 
Appreciate your reply/recommendations very much!
No, those two cameras are not the only PoE devices (now looks like it's gonna be 3 cameras), plus one AP for now, VoiP and some other 1 or 2 low power devices.
So couple hours before seeing your reply I actually said it screw it and bought Unifi Switch USW-16-POE | Gen2. You were correct, I can't cheap out on something that's gonna be running the whole network so went way over the first budget amount, came out like $320. Hope you don't think I made a bad decision, considering the headache i went thru this past week. However time didn't go to waste and with all the research about switches themselves my knowledge improved a lot, since it was pretty much zero... The Unifi managment GUI looks pretty friendly for beginner like me, so does the actual device, it will sit next to me and is fan-less. After reading huge amount of reviews, it reminded me of iOS and Android people, either you love it or hate it.
Now I'm thinking about ditching the wireless router provided by my ISP. Whats my best options in your opinion? Just buying a better WRouter or there is better way? Currently have Verizon Gig up & down with Fios-G1100 WRouter and NETGEAR WiFi Mesh Range Extender EX7500 (which thought would perform way better) specially in a one level small three bedroom house.

I think you made a good choice. I personally haven't touched their switches so I won't have much input about them. Some of their products are better than others, their VOIP seems pretty bad, and I'm not sold on their camera software. Other than that I've used the EdgeRouter-X, The UAP-AC Lite, Pro, and Mesh APs, and all of them are fine. I've used their G3 Flex camera and it delivers very good quality video for the price, I just used it with other software.

So you're basically committing to running their MGMT software, but the good news is you can just run that local. There is also cloud options if you'd like, but it's nice that you should be able to at least keep them going should they discontinue the device. I'm running the MGMT software for APs, and for the most part it's fine. (Run in a linux VM so you can use openJDK and not taint your system with Java) Given you have their switch and are going to be running the controller, then for AP(s) you're going to just want to pick up a UAP-AC-LITE or UAP-AC-PRO. I've used both and they are both fine, and give decent coverage. The main difference is the lite is 2x2 and can use their non standard 24V power (They are now sold with 802.3af compatibility), where the pro is 3x3 and strictly 802.3af. In most cases no one has 3x3 antennas in their laptop, making the additional antenna kind of a moot point. Either choice is perfectly fine, and frankly those two models are really their bread and butter anyway. If you want to replace your AP with something those are the best choices for home and SMB right now.

The one thing that you might run into is limited power of that 16 port. Keep in mind it only has a 42W power budget. The Armcrest is 20W itself, so half of your budget. That said you should be able to get 4 other devices before you run out of power budget. An AP, a couple cameras and probably a phone along with the Armcrest. The easiest thing to do if you do run out of power is use a POE injector for the PTZ, and you can probably get another 3 or 4 devices for what that draws.

I don't know if Verizon you are forced to use their router, if so then just see about disabling wifi on it, and use UAPs. Cable them in you can, but if not they can also do mesh. For mesh the pros are likely better because they have the additional antenna to support additional bandwidth (Keep in mind doing so is sharing that bandwidth your clients would be using, so overall mesh is always slower than having each AP hardwired). But over wifi the best case scenario is usually an 867mbps connection rate, which translates into roughly ~520mbps of actual performance. So long story short a single AP with a single client is not able to saturate your internet connection. You can go looking for AX / wifi 6 devices, but I'm not sure it's worth it. If you really want the bandwidth plug in, or use multiple APs for multiple clients.

The biggest thing you need to do is try to locate your AP as central as possible and have it hard wired. There should be no issue covering a house of that size with a single AP provided it's located in the middle. If you put it at one end of the house under a desk or something, it's going to have poor coverage which will in turn cause poor performance.
 
I think you made a good choice. I personally haven't touched their switches so I won't have much input about them.
I have the USW-8-60W; it does the job it's supposed to do, and it's compact and fanless, but the main complaints are threefold:
  • You have to use the controller to manage Unifi devices; this isn't a negative for a normal deployment, but it does mean that upgrades or recoveries can be frustrating
  • There appear to be no out-of-band management options, i.e. a terminal interface
  • It looks like you have to spend the big bucks to get SFP+ / 10Gbit uplinks
 
I'd say your list is fairly standard for anything that has cloud management. The only thing I don't care for at least with APs is their controller relies on broadcast and you can't just set the controller IP when you power on a device. So you basically end up carving out a vlan specifically for the controller so you can drop new devices onto that vlan so they can be provisioned. But the good / bad is if it's broken hold the reset button, see if it picks up a DHCP lease and re-provisions. If it does cool, if it doesn't then it's more or less dead at that point and you'll need to RMA it.

The big bucks for SFP+ is the same across the board and not specific to them. You can buy a 24port netgear with 4 sfp ports for $300, or you need to spend $1,2000 to get SFP+. I'm not aware of anything new you can buy where SFP+ isn't in an entirely new price bracket.
 
The only thing I don't care for at least with APs is their controller relies on broadcast and you can't just set the controller IP when you power on a device. So you basically end up carving out a vlan specifically for the controller so you can drop new devices onto that vlan so they can be provisioned. But the good / bad is if it's broken hold the reset button, see if it picks up a DHCP lease and re-provisions. If it does cool, if it doesn't then it's more or less dead at that point and you'll need to RMA it.
Assuming that you've set a username and password for the device, you can SSH into most of them and set an address for the controller. Generally, though, if you can get to this point it should be seeing the controller already, so it's of limited utility. And if you don't have those credentials for whatever reason?

Hold the reset button :)
The big bucks for SFP+ is the same across the board and not specific to them. You can buy a 24port netgear with 4 sfp ports for $300, or you need to spend $1,2000 to get SFP+. I'm not aware of anything new you can buy where SFP+ isn't in an entirely new price bracket.
I don't really disagree; it's just start in comparison to what's available with just SFP, and start in comparison to what's available used on Ebay. Really stark. Granted, I wouldn't really be looking toward used datacenter pulls for long-term reliability; I bought my 48-port Aruba with four SFP+ interfaces for US$120 shipped; the ones with PoE cost a little more usually and are typically less desirable because they're so loud. Mine without PoE has four 40mm Noctua fans installed and is inaudible, and my HP 10Gbit switch is about to get the same treatment.
 
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