Need Fix for Max 10 Connections in XP Pro

B

Budwise

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Messages
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I setup an office recently made up of 14 workstations with 1 central server. Its a dental office and all of the workstations look to the server for their patient info/data to pull up with the software. The problem is XP Pro has a limit of 10 max connections before it shuts the rest of them out. You can see how this would create a problem. Does anyone here know of a successful work around to this? So far i have tried the fix from this site http://www.lvllord.de/ but it didnt seem to work. Paying a ton of money for Server 2003 is kinda ridiculous when they dont need all the server functions... Stupid MS...
 
It sounds like this might be more of a Server 2003 CAL or Client license issue.

Just because you have 14 computers on the network doesn't mean that individual PC has 14 simultaneous connections.

Check your CAL's and make sure you have at least 15-20.

Edit: I just realized your not even running a Server OS. That is what's ridiculous. Is this office running Dentrix or Easy Dental? If so I highly recommend the purchase of Server 2003 or above.

Here are some major things to consider:

Backups: Backing up client PC's and server data is much easier.

Stability: Running a Server OS is much more stable and reliable than a Workstation OS such as XP.

Group Policy: You can use Group Policy to streamline the network. Making every computer load and respond the same way, making it easier for clients using the computer.

Roaming Profiles: Now "Judy" can login to any computer at the office and get to all of her stuff.

Home Folders and mapped drives: Now instead of going to each computer and mapping network drives each time they disconnect or fail, set it in Server 2003 under each user's username and you will never have to bother with it again.

List goes on.

As far as the current problem you are experiencing. What functionality are you lacking because of this "connection problem".
 
What are you serving up?

If its something simple like files, dive into Linux. Samba is very straightforward to set up for file sharing.

(When I say use Linux for something simple, I am only referring to the learning curve assuming that the OP has no Linux experience, and of course Linux is capable of far more)
 
Budwise said:
I setup an office recently made up of 14 workstations with 1 central server. Its a dental office and all of the workstations look to the server for their patient info/data to pull up with the software. The problem is XP Pro has a limit of 10 max connections before it shuts the rest of them out. You can see how this would create a problem. Does anyone here know of a successful work around to this? So far i have tried the fix from this site http://www.lvllord.de/ but it didnt seem to work.
Click to expand...

You're confusing the half-open tcp connection limit with the number of inbound network connections. They're two completely different things

Paying a ton of money for Server 2003 is kinda ridiculous when they dont need all the server functions... Stupid MS...
Click to expand...

Personally, I can't see why a dental office large enough to have 14 workstations can't afford a server 2003 license, but if it's that much of an issue why not use linux?
 
Easiest way to get around the Max 10 connections is run ther server on either Windows Server 2003 Small Business Edition, you will need at least 14 cals, but they come in 5 packs to so you will need 2 5 packs plus the 5 that came with SBS.

Small Business Server with 5 CALs is $429 over at Newegg. Windows Server 2003 Standard (which has a lot less stuff in it than SBS) is $884 over at Newegg.

Your other option is if the application doesn' t need to run off the server but needs to store its data there, you could use Linux.

As far as getting around the limitation put in by Microsoft on XP, I don't think that is something that would be discussed here. It might fall under the same rule of not discussing how to get around your firewall at work.
 
A workstation for a "server" at a healthcare place? Wow!
HIPAA
Lack of server hardware
Lack of support from software vendors like Dexis, Dentrix, Patterson/Eaglesoft, Kodak Practice, etc

Budwise said:
I setup an office recently made up of 14 workstations with 1 central server. Its a dental office and all of the workstations look to the server for their patient info/data to pull up with the software. The problem is XP Pro has a limit of 10 max connections before it shuts the rest of them out. You can see how this would create a problem. Does anyone here know of a successful work around to this? So far i have tried the fix from this site http://www.lvllord.de/ but it didnt seem to work. Paying a ton of money for Server 2003 is kinda ridiculous when they dont need all the server functions... Stupid MS...
Click to expand...
 
it is actually a Dentrix office. And Dentrix lists XP Pro as a recommended OS of choice for their software. Dentrix does not support Linux and I havent played around enough with Linux to try and set them up with it. Its not that its such a HUGE office, but they recently added 5 computers (chairside computers) so it put them over the 10 connections. Most small businesses do not use a Server OS.

As far as what functionality problem is this causing, its locking out certain computers during their workday. All of a sudden one computer or another cannot access the server and gets locked out from Dentrix. So the only solution is to get a Server OS?
 
Well if some of the computer are being used for patience, don't make them part of the domain.

If these are computer the doctors/dentists are using then Server is the way to go. As far as Dentrex suggesting XP, I would think that would be the client side, not the server side. I haven't done any work for dentist offices.

The doctors offices I have done work for all have a server, and it is a real server OS.
 
Budwise said:
it is actually a Dentrix office. And Dentrix lists XP Pro as a recommended OS of choice for their software. Dentrix does not support Linux and I havent played around enough with Linux to try and set them up with it. Its not that its such a HUGE office, but they recently added 5 computers (chairside computers) so it put them over the 10 connections. Most small businesses do not use a Server OS.

As far as what functionality problem is this causing, its locking out certain computers during their workday. All of a sudden one computer or another cannot access the server and gets locked out from Dentrix. So the only solution is to get a Server OS?
Click to expand...

No, you already mentioned the other solution - only have 10 computers signed in at a time. Either pay up to MS, or have it continue to limit the growth of the office. (Simple choice to me)
 
Budwise said:
it is actually a Dentrix office. And Dentrix lists XP Pro as a recommended OS of choice for their software. Dentrix does not support Linux and I havent played around enough with Linux to try and set them up with it. Its not that its such a HUGE office, but they recently added 5 computers (chairside computers) so it put them over the 10 connections. Most small businesses do not use a Server OS.
Click to expand...

XP Pro for workstations. And when under probably 5-6 computers total..they'll tolerate running off of a workstation OS.

But most small businesses do indeed use a server once you get near 10x nodes and more. And with healthcare...the importance of a "server" becomes primary, you want runtime, performance, and reliability...things that workstation hardware cannot fulfill on all 3x primary items. You can get away with peer to peer networks generally with up to 5-6 clients..but above that..and a desktop OS is simply not efficient at dealing with concurrent connections..it stumbles on this well before the technical limit of 10. Add to this..workstation grade hardware won't keep up with the demands, chipset, CPU to memory bandwidth, slow desktop hard drives, and a workstation grade network card.

In addition...try to ask Dentrix support to help you when you pass the technical 10x node limit of a workstation OS by adding that 10 connection hack to it. One of the, if not the, primary rules is to stay within a supported environment of the primary LOBs.
 
well if they are using xp pro as "server" my guess is they are running a server class machine either. I know its tough but running a proper server w/ a server os, and a good backup solution is very important. Nevermind the security problems a HIPPA regulations.

If they don't need e-mail or sql i'd try an get them into an entry level server from del or hp w/ oem copy of server 2003 std. it will probably cost them in the 4-5K range for a oltuion, but most small business overlook the importance of backups until the day they need it.

Example: came to $3167. Thats server 2003 w/ 15 CAL's a tape drive w/ backup software. You could probably save another $500 if you went with SATA drive instead of SAS and cut the memory from 4GB to 2GB. I wouldn't but it would work just fine for you most likely.

PowerEdge T105
Date & Time: December 18,2007 2:02 AM CST

SYSTEM COMPONENTS
PowerEdge T105 Qty 1
Dual Core AMD® Opteron™ 1212; 2.0GHz,2X1MB Cache, Windows Server® 2003 R2, Standard Edition with SP2, Includes 5 CALs Unit Price $4,567.00
$1400 OFF when priced $4,300 or above!
Special offer View Details
- $1,400.00

Catalog Number: 4 BECWVK1
Module Description Show Details
PowerEdge T105 Dual Core AMD® Opteron™ 1212; 2.0GHz,2X1MB Cache
Operating System Windows Server® 2003 R2, Standard Edition with SP2, Includes 5 CALs
Memory 4GB, DDR2, 800MHz, 4x1GB,Dual Ranked DIMMs
Keyboard Keyboard, USB
Monitor No Monitor Option
Primary Hard Drive 146GB 15K RPM Serial-Attach SCSI 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive
Floppy Drive 1.44 Floppy Drive
Mouse No Mouse
Network Adapter On-Board Single Gigabit Network Adapter
Tape Backup PowerVault 100T, DAT72 Tape Backup, 36/72GB, w/Controller, Internal
CD/DVD Drive 48X SATA CDRW/DVD Drive
Operating System Addition 10-pack of Windows® Server 2003 Device CALs
System Documentation Electronic Documentation and Open Manage CD Kit
Second Hard Drive 146GB 15K RPM Serial-Attach SCSI 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive
Tape Backup Software Symantec Backup Exec v11d Server Suite
Hard Drive Configuration Add-in SAS6iR (SATA/SAS Controller) supports 2 Hard Drives-RAID 1
Hardware Support Services 3Yr Basic Hardware Warranty Repair: 5x10 HW-Only, 5x10 NBD Onsite
Installation Support Services No Installation
O/S Partition 20GB OS Partition Override
 
can someone link me as to what on Newegg i would need to order? Dont worry about backups as we have about 4 different backups running per day one of them being an offsite upload. The server i built is just fine for them. It is an Opteron system with solid components and does plenty well for them. I just need to know exactly what my options are as far as purchasing. Im looking on newegg but there are lots of different packages there and im not sure which is which.

Do i need to get this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16837116155

plus 2 of these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16837116170


or

would this work?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16837116228

What are the difference here? I appreciate all the help guys...

Thanks
 
Go for the option #2, the 20 user license. It works out to be less money.

..but if all it's doing is serving files, Linux and pocket the $650.
 
While linux is great and fun and capable and blah blah blah.....a key thing to remember, as a consultant for a business...and this is expecially important for a business that is in healthcare...is to "stay within support of their primary line of business application"

The OP stated above..that Dentrix does not support linux.

You're asking for trouble when you try to force a healthcare LOB app into an unsupported environment.
 
I hear ya.

I have a client that is running a software application that is "current", but just flat out old. It's written with Visual Basic 2 or 3 from what I can tell. The interface is straight out of Windows 3x

Getting it to run on XP was a trick, Vista.. it's near impossible. The software relies on an a old version of Acrobat and Acrobat reader 4. I called the guy that is writing it and asked about Vista. He said, no problem, if anything comes up, he will fix it. The version of Acrobat Reader for Vista is version 8 I think, big no go. The guy is going to have to do a ton of work for just that one bug. LOL.
 
Met-AL said:
The version of Acrobat Reader for Vista is version 8 I think, big no go.
Click to expand...

Full Acrobat 5.0 works fine on Vista. One warning upon install..but have not seen issues yet. A law firm I deployed Vista across the board was using Adobe 5.0 for their networked Canon scanner....had to install it, saw the error..said "Ugh..you may need an upgrade"...but after the warning...zero issues.
 
If you are going with Win2k3 sbs, make sure you get SBS cals as normal windows 2k3 cals is not going to work with SBS. Since you are getting a lot of extra cals, it might make more sense to just get Win2k3 server and not SBS, as SBS cals are significantly more expensive.
 
oakfan52 said:
well if they are using xp pro as "server" my guess is they are running a server class machine either. I know its tough but running a proper server w/ a server os, and a good backup solution is very important. Nevermind the security problems a HIPPA regulations.

If they don't need e-mail or sql i'd try an get them into an entry level server from del or hp w/ oem copy of server 2003 std. it will probably cost them in the 4-5K range for a oltuion, but most small business overlook the importance of backups until the day they need it.

Example: came to $3167. Thats server 2003 w/ 15 CAL's a tape drive w/ backup software. You could probably save another $500 if you went with SATA drive instead of SAS and cut the memory from 4GB to 2GB. I wouldn't but it would work just fine for you most likely.

PowerEdge T105
Date & Time: December 18,2007 2:02 AM CST

SYSTEM COMPONENTS
PowerEdge T105 Qty 1
Dual Core AMD® Opteron™ 1212; 2.0GHz,2X1MB Cache, Windows Server® 2003 R2, Standard Edition with SP2, Includes 5 CALs Unit Price $4,567.00
$1400 OFF when priced $4,300 or above!
Special offer View Details
- $1,400.00

Catalog Number: 4 BECWVK1
Module Description Show Details
PowerEdge T105 Dual Core AMD® Opteron™ 1212; 2.0GHz,2X1MB Cache
Operating System Windows Server® 2003 R2, Standard Edition with SP2, Includes 5 CALs
Memory 4GB, DDR2, 800MHz, 4x1GB,Dual Ranked DIMMs
Keyboard Keyboard, USB
Monitor No Monitor Option
Primary Hard Drive 146GB 15K RPM Serial-Attach SCSI 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive
Floppy Drive 1.44 Floppy Drive
Mouse No Mouse
Network Adapter On-Board Single Gigabit Network Adapter
Tape Backup PowerVault 100T, DAT72 Tape Backup, 36/72GB, w/Controller, Internal
CD/DVD Drive 48X SATA CDRW/DVD Drive
Operating System Addition 10-pack of Windows® Server 2003 Device CALs
System Documentation Electronic Documentation and Open Manage CD Kit
Second Hard Drive 146GB 15K RPM Serial-Attach SCSI 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive
Tape Backup Software Symantec Backup Exec v11d Server Suite
Hard Drive Configuration Add-in SAS6iR (SATA/SAS Controller) supports 2 Hard Drives-RAID 1
Hardware Support Services 3Yr Basic Hardware Warranty Repair: 5x10 HW-Only, 5x10 NBD Onsite
Installation Support Services No Installation
O/S Partition 20GB OS Partition Override
Click to expand...
so 146gb is enough space for this size office?
 
I'd say so. The Dentrix software does not take up much space, even with a very large database.

Since Dentrix is probably the only software besides e-mail and internet browsing, there isn't really going to be much to backup.
 
yea, they only have 80Gb of space right now and its plenty for a Dentrix Server.
 
LoStMaTt said:
I'd say so. The Dentrix software does not take up much space, even with a very large database.

Since Dentrix is probably the only software besides e-mail and internet browsing, there isn't really going to be much to backup.
Click to expand...

Budwise said:
yea, they only have 80Gb of space right now and its plenty for a Dentrix Server.
Click to expand...

the reason i ask this is because i'm gonna be setting up one soon and i'm wondering how other offices are setup.

Do they store anything else on the server like digital photos?
 
AMD_RULES said:
the reason i ask this is because i'm gonna be setting up one soon and i'm wondering how other offices are setup.

Do they store anything else on the server like digital photos?
Click to expand...

The ones we take care of do....depends what other software they run, x-ray software.
 
OK, i need a solid yes or no on this. All the office does is use a workgroup to all access the hard drive on the server to pull up patient data on each workstation. So to do this i need 15 CAL's since there are 14 computers as they come in packs of 5 correct? On newegg its so confusing as to what goes with what as far as CAL packs to OSes. On ZZF its a little less confusing though. Are these what i need?

ONE of these Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Standard Edition OEM
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=604666
It says it comes already with 5 Client Licenses right?

and TWO of these Microsoft Windows Server 2003 CAL English MLP 5 Device (License Only)
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=604668

Is there any advantage that they will need that is worth the extra money for Small Business Server 2003 over the plain Server 2003?

Please let me know so i can get these ordered...
 
are CAL's system based or user based? Someone told me that if there are 8 people working at the office with 14 computers in office, we only need 8 CAL's.

Or that we could actually just install Server 2003 on the server and just set it up as a file server and just have the XP computers connect to the file server.

Thoughts?
 
Do yourself a favor and setup this server with RAID1 or 5 using 2 or 3 hard drives. No server (unless it is disposable) should be setup with only one drive as you will find yourself in a heap of trouble when the hard drive dies.

Also, when you setup the server, the cals can be either assigned by computers (seats) or by people (user accounts per server). If you have more than 1 server it makes sense to use seats as the number of licenses needed for each additional server will double. Unless you are using SBS, the notion of licenses is pretty much academic anyway - Windows will allow you to go beyond your number of licenses, however, you would be in trouble if the company ever got audited by the sba.

seats:
15 computers, 10 people = 15 licenses
15 computers, 10 people, 2 servers= 15 licenses

accounts:
15 computers, 10 people = 10 licenses
15 computers, 10 people, 2 servers = 20 licenses

etc..
 
since it is a flat file database you may have file lock problems in linux, if you use SME server you can disable locks, SME will also do user authenticating like a domain controller with logon scripts
 
dahlhana said:
Do yourself a favor and setup this server with RAID1 or 5 using 2 or 3 hard drives. No server (unless it is disposable) should be setup with only one drive as you will find yourself in a heap of trouble when the hard drive dies.

Also, when you setup the server, the cals can be either assigned by computers (seats) or by people (user accounts per server). If you have more than 1 server it makes sense to use seats as the number of licenses needed for each additional server will double. Unless you are using SBS, the notion of licenses is pretty much academic anyway - Windows will allow you to go beyond your number of licenses, however, you would be in trouble if the company ever got audited by the sba.

seats:
15 computers, 10 people = 15 licenses
15 computers, 10 people, 2 servers= 15 licenses

accounts:
15 computers, 10 people = 10 licenses
15 computers, 10 people, 2 servers = 20 licenses

etc..
Click to expand...

It is in fact in RAID1 :)
 
Get SBS only if you need exchange and SQL. The SBS CAL's more and its a heavier load on the server. You should only go SBS if you will use the additional componets included.
 
here is what i ordered today:

from ZipZoomFly
$1221.90
Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Standard Edition OEM
Processing

Microsoft Windows Server 2003 CAL English MLP 5 Device (License Only)
Processing

INTEL Xeon Quad Core 2.40 GHz 1066 MHz 775 8MB Server Processor Retail ***Free Shipping***
Processing

From Newegg
1 ABIT IP35 Pro LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

1 Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model BL2KIT12864AA1065 - Retail

and from Jab-Tech
Thermalright Ultima 90 #3852

SKU SKU3853
Price $45.95
Quantity 1 item(s)

YATE LOON 92mm Case Fan - D90BM-12 - Medium Speed Ball Bearing #3774

SKU SKU4258
Price $3.95
Quantity 1 item(s)

Arctic Cooling MX-2 Thermal Compound #3863


Should be one hell of a server :)
 
Budwise said:
here is what i ordered today:

from ZipZoomFly
$1221.90
Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Standard Edition OEM
Processing

Microsoft Windows Server 2003 CAL English MLP 5 Device (License Only)
Processing

INTEL Xeon Quad Core 2.40 GHz 1066 MHz 775 8MB Server Processor Retail ***Free Shipping***
Processing

From Newegg
1 ABIT IP35 Pro LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

1 Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model BL2KIT12864AA1065 - Retail

and from Jab-Tech
Thermalright Ultima 90 #3852

SKU SKU3853
Price $45.95
Quantity 1 item(s)

YATE LOON 92mm Case Fan - D90BM-12 - Medium Speed Ball Bearing #3774

SKU SKU4258
Price $3.95
Quantity 1 item(s)

Arctic Cooling MX-2 Thermal Compound #3863


Should be one hell of a server :)
Click to expand...

it sure should be. Let us know how it works out..
as far as performance goes throughout the network and access times :D

good luck,

-AMD_RULES
 
nope, that would be 15 licenses/cals total... If you get a second server, you would need another server license, however, you would not need additional user cals.
 
dahlhana said:
nope, that would be 15 licenses/cals total... If you get a second server, you would need another server license, however, you would not need additional user cals.
Click to expand...


The old server will be moved to a workstation. The new one will be the only server. And there are a total of 13 workstations so the 5 that comes with the OS plus 10 more will cover it...
 
You can use CALs in different ways. You can use them in a per system mode, or per user.

You can get away with 5 CALs if no more than five users will login to the domain at the same time, a CAL will not be associated with a certain user.
 
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