Neckbeard Blows Away Mom Over Broken Gaming Headset

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Kyle_Bennett, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. mesyn191

    mesyn191 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,795
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    Schooling, credit card, and car debt are also commonly very high among "millenials" which these days is everyone mid-30-ish (edit) and below even if you want to talk about teens n' such because of how useless and handwavey all these generational war terms are.

    Remember avg. new car price is over $30K right now. Even used OK cars are damn expensive.

    The low wages + irregular gig style jobs don't help at all either.

    Because just everyone can get a STEM degree and job right? And it was totally the way it was for Mom n' Pop 30-40yr ago too that they had to get STEM degrees/jobs to get a "starter" home too riiiiight? /extra sarcastic

    Also, technically speaking, winning the lotto or finding gold buried in your backyard isn't out of reach either. But what are the chances?

    How about focusing on what is practical and realistic instead of just-so "solutions" that aren't realistic for most??

    Just like the last bubble due to widespread BS loans this problem is everywhere to some degree. And just like last time moving is expensive and risky since rents are high everywhere close to jobs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  2. aeliusg

    aeliusg Gawd

    Messages:
    690
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    I wonder what kind of headset it was. Razer or some other cheapo crap and the joke's on him.
     
    mesyn191 likes this.
  3. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

    Messages:
    48,750
    Joined:
    May 18, 1997
    Dude. If he had been an [H]'er, all this could have been avoided as I could have just sent him one.
     
    Makaveli@BETA, kju1 and aeliusg like this.
  4. ZLoth

    ZLoth Gawd

    Messages:
    657
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
    Per the article, this is in Ceres and Riverbank, both of which are suburbs of.... Modesto. Not exactly the most exciting place in the Central Valley. Probably a bedroom community of the SF Bay Area.

    And, while I hold down a full-time (and well-paying) job, I still live at home taking care of my mother. Part of the reason is property taxes and inheriting the home.
     
  5. Ranulfo

    Ranulfo Gawd

    Messages:
    820
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    What economy are you living in eh?
     
    mesyn191 likes this.
  6. hlfbkd420

    hlfbkd420 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    132
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2017
    fuckin Darwin... He solves many problems
     
  7. MavericK

    MavericK Zero Cool

    Messages:
    30,073
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Not in this case, clearly.
     
  8. Gigus Fire

    Gigus Fire 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,194
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    I agree, move out of cali. Colorado is nice, Nevada, Arizona, Texas, etc.

    My brother is an accountant living in California. I wonder how he did it.... It's a mystery!
     
  9. Gigus Fire

    Gigus Fire 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,194
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Yeah, almost anyone can. You just have to apply yourself, it's not that hard.
    Hey look, you don't want to do a STEMs degree? Become a Teacher (40-50k to start, after a few years depending where and how much they're paying you're probably making 70-80 easily), become an accountant (30-35 to start, 50-60 after 5, around 10 you can be a senior accountant, make 80-90k). You don't like numbers? Become a licensed electrician and hook yourself up with a union (depends on where, and work isn't 100% stable but you can net 50-120k easily). I know a janitor by me who works two jobs and makes 150k a year. Fuck, bus drivers by me start at 35k and can make 70-80k easily after 5-10 years. You move into management and they can make 100k easily.

    You know what millennials can't stand? Not getting instant gratification. WTF is working 5 years to actually get your foot in the door? Fuck that, just max out the credit card and get in massive debt for the rest of your life.

    You know what the moral of the story is? You gotta actually work for 5-10 years to start making some really good money. Unless your aspirations is working at gamestop for life or being a barrista at starbucks, there's lots of opportunities out there.

    I don't understand this mentality. In reality nothing is difficult if you break it down to little steps and actually just start doing it. And yeah, there are setbacks, that's part of life.

    I'd say some of the worst advice you can give someone when they're thinking about jobs and going to school is just do whatever you feel like doing or that you like. Nope. You should really check out the market first and make some compromises and decide on a career that will give you the life you want to have. Or else you end up like those dipshits with literature degrees working in retail for the rest of their lives. And i'm not saying there's something wrong with that if that's really what you want to do, but most people in those dead end jobs complain about their jobs nonstop and hate their lives.
     
  10. Zion Halcyon

    Zion Halcyon [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,989
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Anyone subjected to the California educational system should come pre-diagnosed with a mental illness - they breed them there that way on purpose.
     
  11. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,252
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2004

    Sure blame the gun, or the dead parent.

    Everyone know that gun laws only apply to the law abiding, especially here in California.
    If he's here illegally he has nothing to worry about. All he his lawyer has to say is that he found it, didn't know it was a gun, and it went off accidently.
     
  12. mesyn191

    mesyn191 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,795
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    This is blatantly false. Even years ago people in STEM fields were complaining how difficult it was to find good jobs due to the flood of people trying to get work in STEM and the brains requirements means a majority of people won't have a realistic shot of getting a STEM degree in the first place.

    A very dedicated and intelligent few can take the STEM route, its nowhere near a general purpose solution.

    You do realize that "just" making $75K/yr puts you in the top ~15% of wage earners in the US right? And "just" making $100K/yr puts you in the top 10%?

    By default you're talking about incomes that only a small minority can achieve. Or IOW can't be general purpose solutions. Do you not understand what a general purpose solution is or what?

    This is false. All millienials, really anyone want, is to be able to get the same degree of compensation and standard of living their parents had back in say, the 1970's or perhaps the early 80's. If our parents were justified getting that level of compensation for their labor then so should younger generations.

    Reminder that millenials are now in their mid 30's and still earn far less than their parents did at the same age. Many of them have been working for 10-15yr already and still aren't getting ahead. And if they're working as a barrista or retail Gamestop guy its because that was all they could get and not what they wanted. Those are shit retail and/or service jobs for shit pay. No one actually wants them. Same thing for McJobs too or warehouse work. No one wants it for the pay they're willing to get working them.

    Did I say difficult or did I say "practical and realistic"?

    I'm pretty sure I said the latter. You need to respond to that.

    To be more clear you need to give an example of something that would work for say 30% or more of the people. Really 50%+ if you're being serious. This crap where maaybe 5-10% of the people have a shot at a good life with a house and stuff is dishonest BS and unworkable.
     
  13. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,252
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2004
    Which is why my brothers kids went to private schools (and on to college with scholarships), and my straight "A" kid went to a combination of private and home school (just started looking at colleges)
     
  14. Gigus Fire

    Gigus Fire 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,194
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Lol. I certainly do not have to suggest something that'll work for 30 or 50% of the people. This isn't communism, this is a capitalistic society. The smaller the number my plan works for the better off they'll be. That's the way it's always been. With the rising costs most of the younger folk will be living at home or renting for the rest of their lives. The ones that apply themselves at school and look for lucrative careers will do the best just like they've always done. The ones who don't apply themselves who can take a risk can move into growth areas with lower costs, such as atlanta, dallas, raleigh, etc. You can probably find a decent job and a decent house in those areas. I'd say move the fuck out of california and new york. If you stay there, then you deserve what you get.
     
  15. exlink

    exlink 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,069
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    I'm not blaming the gun. But I will sure as hell blame a gun owner that doesn't properly secure their firearm. I don't care if its an illegal that used it - if you own a firearm you are responsible for it.

    I own multiple firearms and they're all stored either in a safe or are on me.
     
  16. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,252
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2004
    In many parts of this country you don't need $75K/yr to live a good life. If you don't have the smarts for a Stem type job, there are plenty of trades, like car repair, electrician, plumber, heating/air, etc. that pay decent money.

    It's not just how much you make, it's also how much you spend.

    I live in Southern California, and I've never made $100K, in fact my average (due to the .com bubble) over the past 20 years is well below the $75K mark.


    Yet, I have a stay at home wife (since the kids where born), a nice 4 bedroom home in a upscale neighborhood, actually have a reasonable amount saved for retirement, and I'm getting ready to pay for my kids college in a couple years.

    How is that possible?

    I work in IT, but I only have a 2 year college degree because that's all I could afford, and had to work at the same time to afford that.
    Going to college full time and working full time didn't leave much time to spend money on other stuff.

    I spent years working my way up, had a big step back after the .com bubble burst, so I doubled down and worked my way back up.

    Years ago I bought the cheapest home in a nice neighborhood. Needed a lot of work, but mostly cosmetic (ok it was a bit of a dump).
    Did most the work myself, even though it took me several years.
    Used off the shelf products as much as possible, instead of the expensive trendy stuff they like to use on remodeling shows now days.

    I do spurge on new cars, but then I drive them 10+ years. The wife's car is currently 12 years old but we're keeping it as long as it remains trouble free.
    One of the engineers at the office brags about how low cost the lease deals he gets for the small cars he drives. I drive a larger car, and actually spend a lot less per mile than he does, since I keep my cars so long.

    We don't eat out much, and do whatever else we can to save money. Even have a small garden in the back yard, but considering the price of water, I'm not sure how much it saves.

    Yet in spite of our limited income, we've not only done many driving vacations, but also went to Disney World, Cruised Alaska and flown over seas.
    Currently looking for a bargain (maybe off-season) trip to Hawaii for our 20th.
     
    GoldenTiger likes this.
  17. mesyn191

    mesyn191 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,795
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    You do if you want to actually give a general purpose solution. No one cares about just-so stories of bootstrappery and derring do STEM-ery. Too few can take that route to make it a serious option hence the comparison to winning the lotto while not numerically accurate is spot on in spirit.

    At no point was I talking about Communism or Socialism either. Don't be dishonest. Weell don't be more dishonest than you are usually.

    Except it wasn't. Look at wages n' such for people in the US in the 70's. Or the 80's even. People used to be able to actually afford a home with just 1 person working a "normal" non-STEM job and now that is just about impossible.

    For some reason you want to blame young people for that even though young people don't and can't set policy, it was the older generations that did and still do that. Avg. age of Congress is still like 60yr+ you know. Yet for some reason you think people in their mid-30's and younger are at fault.

    Actually one of the "joys" of declining opportunity means that even those who are willing to go the extra mile will increasingly be unable to get those lucrative careers. If the opportunities to advance aren't there it doesn't matter how hard you work. Again note all those younger people trapped in shit retail jobs well into their 30's who are making less than their parents did at their age. The opportunity wasn't there for them to move up and so they're stuck.

    Hahaha all those areas are doing as badly or worse than most of CA right now economically speaking! Yeah the home prices are less but so are the wages and work is typically harder to find!! There is no "greener grass" elsewhere right now in the US and I speak as someone who was able to successfully move out of state...but only because I sold my house at near bubble prices and bought elsewhere cheaper several years ago.

    That isn't a general purpose solution either. And the locals hate people like me since out of state buyers end up driving up the price of homes so much that none of the locals can afford to buy anything anymore. Prices where I live, and its a agricultural flyover state BTW, are rapidly approaching a level where they outstrip local wages almost on par with what was seen in CA during the previous bubble. We're talking like 100%+ price appreciation in just a few years for no damn reason at all. None.
     
    Chimpee likes this.
  18. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,861
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    Oh that would be a trick

    Weapons are stolen from gun shops although gun shops must meet federal requirements to ..... "keep them from falling into the wrong hands".

    Weapons are stolen from the US mail in shipment although the US Mail is supposed to "keep them from falling into the wrong hands".

    Weapons are stolen from the military although the military is supposed to "keep them from falling into the wrong hands".

    But you expect a simple civilian to do what these organizations can't do despite their vastly superior resources.

    I like the other take on this idea, how about other people just keep their mitts off my shit.

    But if they can't, I have home owners insurance.

    And guns aren't designed to kill people, they are tools designed to kill what a person needs killed.

    100% of illegal guns start out as legal guns .... now this is a choice statement.

    How about you define what an illegal gun is?

    You tell me what an illegal gun is Z, I don't think you even know.

    But if you do get that right then we can continue because I think you have "illegal gun" confused with "illegal possession of a gun" and the illegal part of this equation is the possession of a gun, not a gun that's illegal.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  19. umeng2002

    umeng2002 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    502
    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Oddly enough, my mom bought me a nice pair of headphones for Christmas...

    Oh and there is still plenty of "you're lucky we are even hiring" mentality left over from the 2008 meltdown.

    The issue with this economy since then is that wages are stagnant as F while housing prices have risen greatly.

    Unless you live in the sticks, $50k is barely enough to live on your own.
     
    mesyn191 likes this.
  20. mesyn191

    mesyn191 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,795
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    When talking about general purpose solutions that apply broadly you use average numbers right?

    To address what you're saying though the areas where $75K/yr+ aren't needed to have a good life will have a lower CoL ....but so will the wages and wooops you're stuck needing more money than you can get for your typical job in the area anyways!

    Actually most trades pay shit, have little to no advancement, and wear your body out prematurely. I have welders and pipe fitters and auto repair guys in my family so I know exactly what the situation there is and exactly none of them are happy with their jobs.

    As far as I'm concerned its dishonest to talk about personal spending habits when the cost of housing, school, cars, and medical care is as high as it is. Fact is you have to be lucky or rich not to be loaded down with debt right now given avg. US income vs those things.

    If you're doing well but most of the rest of society is up shit creek without the proverbial paddle then I'd say you're life experiences don't apply so don't bother to present your anecdotes as a general purpose "just do this" of sorts here.

    Decades ago people didn't have these ridiculous debt issues, arguably had higher quality of life, and their effective compensation was much higher, it is not hard to understand what is going on here.
     
  21. MrDeaf

    MrDeaf Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    168
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2017
    Why would you shoot your family...
     
  22. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,861
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    I see another problem with your thinking Z, gun control doesn't make it hard to own guns. You might need to take a class, get a permit, settle for extra safety features or reduced capability, or wait half a year. But in the end, you'll still get your gun if you want one.

    But all of this is only if a person is a law abiding citizen. As soon as you cross over to considering criminals wanting guns, no gun control has any effect on their ability to get a gun. You can't stop it no matter how tough your gun control laws are.

    Do you think the Germans had pretty tough gun control laws in effect for the population of France during WW2?

    I am pretty sure the French Underground had weapons and I am pretty sure the Germans said they were all "illegal weapons" lol.

    The ultimate Gun Control situation, the most serious punishment, death no trial required, but those wily Frenchmen still had guns.

    Don't confuse the efficacy of laws on the law abiding and the lawless, two separate sets of rules, the laws are the same, but not the rules. This is why gun control fails. It fails because laws can't prevent anything and people keep trying to to disprove it.

    Murder is illegal but people still murder other people. The one law should be all that's required in this case and it would keep everything pretty simple, don't kill each other. But creating a string of other "preventative laws" in order to go that extra mile just makes everything else harder than it has to be to no good effect.

    The ten commandments are actually a pretty good rule set and they cover almost everything that needs to be covered when it comes to law.

    I suppose if you wanted to strip out the more religious ones then the list would be really short.

    1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
    2. You shall not make idols.
    3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
    4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    5. Honor your father and your mother.
    6. You shall not murder.
    7. You shall not commit adultery.
    8. You shall not steal.
    9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
    10. You shall not covet.
    It would seem that almost everything that these "preventative" laws are trying to do are on this list in Green. I'd be really tempted to add number 5 as well, I think it has merit as far as that goes.
     
  23. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,443
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    This guy took the term 'rage quit' to a new level lol.

    I'm fairly sure that after a couple of weeks listening to the nagging of your mother, you'd call yourself crazy for even thinking about that. I could never even dream of moving back to my parents house and live under their rules.
     
  24. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,861
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008

    I don't agree at all.

    You aren't going to like how I say this but this kind of thinking is just making excuses for a life of bad choices.

    Now I would like to soften the blow, tell you that it's not entirely your fault, that people are being taught from an early age to make these choices, that they are the right path when they are not. That our society in the US is designed to create debtors out of people. The debt is designed to take all you can afford to give and then some. That we can't wait and can't do without and shouldn't have to.

    I'm buying a car for my daughter tomorrow, we expect her to pay us back for it, when she get's a job. But regardless of why or who I am buying this car for, tomorrow I am going to go to the dealership and put a used Subaru Forester on my credit card.

    It'll be just a little short of $20,000 and I'll pay the entire thing off before the next statement is due because I already have all the money. I could just write a check for the car but I do get 2.5% cash back by using the card and shit, that's $450 back instead of paying someone compound interest for a loan.

    Now you can sit there and tell me how I have just had a charmed life. That I was set for success from the start.

    But what I am telling you is that family is important. What they should be teaching us is important, that we pay attention and learn is important. That making good choices and listening to good advice is important. Knowing what is a need and what is a luxury is important just like avoiding debt is important.

    What I am doing for my daughter tomorrow will allow her the mobility and freedom to work, or to have a greater range of options for better work.

    My wife and I are able to do this because we made good choices. Our parents made sure we had these options and taught us how to make good choices just like their parents taught them and were able to help them.

    In the US, decades ago, people wanted to erase the stigma of divorce so we did. Today they want us to accept that marriage shouldn't even need to be a long term thing and we can just fall into and out of relationships as we go along through different stages of our lives. I don't think we are there yet. We don't need to finish high school, not right away at least. It's OK, you can get a GED later. You can have sex even though your not emotionally stable enough to be raising children and birth control is great and all our modern medicine is great and frankly we are some unhealthy people in this country and our women have real medical issues and have problems just having kids past high school age. But my Grandmother had 14 children that lived, one didn't. That old gal was born in like 1890 or so, my Grandfather fought in WW1 so he must have been in his twenties by 1915 or so. And she was having those children over a 20 year period and that was during the depression, hard years in this country. But both my two girls are over 30 and can't seem to have kids. And if either is successful and delivers a child I am really wondering what list of medical issues they'll have after years of their mother being on birth control and drinking and smoking and just being past prime child berthing age.

    So what I see is a bunch of people making bad decisions, ignoring simple realities of health, finances, education, time .... ignoring the effects of time. And I see all these same people all believing that the system is rigged, everything is out of balance, they have no chance and all anecdotal stories aside ...... it's not their fault and anyone who is well off and making it ok, well they were just lucky.

    They were lucky, they were born into a solid family, they listened to mom and dad at least some, worked, saved, tried to stay out of debt as much as they could. They did without and despite .com busts and house bubbles they made it work out OK and it's cause they were lucky.

    Lucky is winning the lottery, lucky is having the name Trump, lucky is being born with some sort of natural talent and being able to make that work for you like a pro ball player so that you are earning millions on contract by the time your 26.

    Or, Lucky is meeting a good woman and staying married for 34 years like Mom and Dad, working together to make it happen the way it's supposed to. Maybe lucky is not falling for that bullshit about how to live in debt so that you have to give other people 20% or more, of everything you make you whole life.

    I don't expect that you'll like what I've said but I didn't say it just for you.

    I just keep wondering how far down this wrong road our people will walk before they finally accept that they've just been doing it wrong.

    I'm getting older, some tell me I don't seem like I'm almost 60, but I am almost 60 and I know it. I don't heal as fast, simple stupid things hurt me. I don't sleep as well and all that old man shit ..... so I'm getting old, it's happening.

    But I'm getting old with someone. She's getting old with me. And there is one thing in this world that I am really sure of, that I know is going to come true.

    When the day comes that I need someone to help me wipe my ass again, she'll be there to do it for me if she can.

    I sure don't believe that anyone else on this earth will, not unless I still have money to pay them for it.

    None of you are volunteering I think .......... :sneaky:
     
    GoldenTiger, Gigus Fire, kju1 and 2 others like this.
  25. mesyn191

    mesyn191 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,795
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    I figured you wouldn't but this is a subject we've gone over before and everything I've said before still stands and your new posting on this subject is just a rehashing of the same old same old all over again.

    Essentially though: the life decisions of 1 relatively successful person (in this case yourself) aren't relevant, from either a purely economic stand point or a social one, in a economic environment where almost everyone else is failing.

    IOW the economic and social situation of 10's or 100's of millions out weighs the just-so anecdotes of 1 person (ie. yourself).

    This is doubly true when you consider in the still relatively recent past (ie. 70's-80's) the general economic situation was extremely different for that same average person. And their young.

    That + your inability to recognize that economic systems effect opportunity, your inability to recognize that "bootstrapping" your way to economic prosperity is a sick joke, and that we're not living in a Just World so you continuously place all, or nearly all, of the blame for the current economic situation of an entire generation or 2 on the individuals themselves are things I'd disagree with too.

    If at some point in the future you feel that more just-so personal anecdotes about yourself are a valid response to this than please save yourself the time and don't bother because that will never convince me. Not when there is heaps of data concerning millions and millions of people on this subject to the contrary.

    edit: some little things, phrasing, etc
     
  26. davethehedgehog

    davethehedgehog Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    151
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2017
    You will get slated for your opinions, but as what some would think was a successful person, and someone even not too far off the ages people are saying this is impossible to do, I can attest to the fact you're 100% right and want to tell you you're not alone.

    Something is wrong with this world. People are unhappy, jealous and bitter. The corruption of the family unit is a big part of that, imho. People *need* stability. Kids need it more than most, but grown adults too as can be seen with this sad case. Children need a firm hand and a clear example to follow. I've been with my wife for 20 years this year, married for 15. We gre up together from being pretty much kids. I'm 37, come from a poor working class family, my dad worked on a factory machine and my mum was a teacher they are still married now after 40 years. I've worked jobs from £2 an hour (about $2.5 these days) to where I am now contracting at many times more than that a day. I did my time, 36 hour working shifts, weeks away from home sacrificed to pay the bills and in effort for a brighter future. I paid off my student debt, and I made rash decisions as a youngster that I had to work hard to pay for in later age. But i did it. I'm not religious in any way, but I'm moral. I own my own house and, thank to some wise investments, I've paid off a big part of it and we're looking forward to a bright future where I can support my kids properly in starting their lives too, much like you.

    The selfishness and narcissism, leading to the feeling of entitlement, of people these days is the root cause of all their problems so far as I can tell. Nothing comes free, the world owes you precisely zero, you have to make your decisions and live with the consequences. There will always be unfortunate people that are kicked in the balls by life, but that's the world and, in my experience, that ball kicking is often deserved. Although not always.

    edit: I always thought this experiment was funny and tallies up with what I see in the world. In particular, look at the reaction after she throws the cucumber back. Look a the slamming down of the hand. "THATS NOT FAIR, I WANT MY GRAPE!", then it shakes the walls trying to break them so it can just *take* the grape. Or maybe it's just expressing it's anger. My opinion, and it is just an opinion, is that a strong family and background helps to train this out of humans, but that's obviously less prevalent these days.

     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  27. mesyn191

    mesyn191 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,795
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    When people get shit all over by the older generations because they want to make the same money that the older generation did for the same job and get the same benefits but instead get told either they're to blame for everything wrong or get told a bunch of economic morality BS...yeah they're gonna get irate about that.

    That the older generations are also almost always the ones in charge actually making the decisions that end up screwing over the younger generations isn't gonna do a thing to lessen any of their distaste about getting talked down to about this situation either.

    Your ability to tell what is going on is fairly poor if you think wanting fair compensation for work is entitlement or selfishness and respecting them for who they are is narcissism.

    That and you're falling for the Just World Fallacy if you think that the "ball kicking is often deserved". Justice isn't meted out automagically by the world or reality and people get fucked over all the time through no fault of their own. Look at what happened to the Native Americans for instance. Or what has been going on in modern Africa if you want a more recent example of appalling injustice.
     
  28. davethehedgehog

    davethehedgehog Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    151
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2017
    So tell me, since you've been so badly wronged by the world clearly, what is it you want? Do you want that grape you think you deserve?
     
  29. mesyn191

    mesyn191 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,795
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    I've actually done very well, and don't really need much, but I also have no problem attributing that to luck.

    Yeah I worked hard, but so what? Everyone I know worked hard. Some work 2 or 3 jobs, they worked harder than I did, even came from more stable families too, but are worse off than me. Things easily could've turned out worse for me and did for most everyone else I know in my age group. (edit) And my family. And younger people are even worse off still.

    But this subject isn't about me. Or you. Or lcpiper. (edit) Or my family. Personal stories are besides the point.

    Its about what is going on in the world to an entire generation, or 2, at this point. And to see all those people who I know, who I could easily be one of, get screwed over so thoroughly and then blamed for it is some serious BS and I'm objecting to that for reasons already stated in thread which you are free to ignore but I'd prefer if you actually addressed instead.
     
  30. davethehedgehog

    davethehedgehog Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    151
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2017
    Ok, so what you're saying is that on your road to success, you've had no set backs. You've never had anything bad happen. You were 100% lucky to get where you were and wise decisions had nothing to do with that.

    Congratulations! You've won the karma lottery. I wish I and the people I know were so lucky.

    Why do you blame "old people" for your friends problems? I grew up in the 80's at the end of the cold war. I'm pretty sure Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan were a lot older than me and my parents. The people in "power" were all old, always have been, but that didn't matter, life still happened. It's in the nature of young people to look at older people who appear to have "more" and rage against it. Dylan was singing about that back in the 60's if you recall.

    Again, what do you want? For your friends of course, not for you. Cos at the moment all you're doing is complaining about how hard your mates have had it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  31. mesyn191

    mesyn191 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,795
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    No. Respond to what I say and do not post strawmans to whack away on. (edit) And don't use hyperbole here either, you're not all that good or effective with it anyways.

    I never said I never dealt with set backs, I said I got lucky, and I did. Not lotto lucky, but luckier than most by a fair margin.

    Who sets policy and passes laws? Is it the avg. 18 or 30-something yr old? Nope. In the US its the ~60yr olds in Congress that do that. And many of them are incumbents who've held their seats for a long time. (edit) Apparently the avg. age of the Parliament in the UK is 51yr so you can't blame younger generations there either.

    You have no clue or understanding of what those people did if that is all you have to say about their policies, many of which took years after they left office to take their full effect.

    I want you to post honestly and actually address information and/or commentary that has been posted in thread about this subject rather than trying to divert to none to subtle attempts at personal attacks.

    How about you address the fact that an entire generation in the US is 20% poorer than their parents were at the same point in their lives while also dealing with much higher CoL (cost of living) due to much higher housing costs, higher healthcare costs, higher schooling costs, etc?
     
  32. tetris42

    tetris42 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,416
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2014
    Well it could in theory, but it doesn't look like it is in practice since student debt keeps going up. You just have to look at the variables:

    - Cost of living
    - Cost of tuition
    + Average pay of new students
    = Overall economic outcome


    So what you're saying is because the cost of living numbers are going down, shouldn't that make the overall outcome go up? Sure, but if the average pay is ALSO down and the cost of tuition is UP, then those override the economic benefits of staying at home. Don't get me wrong, it's still far more economical to live with family, it's just that those benefits are often still not enough.
     
    mesyn191 likes this.
  33. davethehedgehog

    davethehedgehog Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    151
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2017
    I was being facetious regarding your luck, sorry I thought that was obvious. Here you're being facetious regarding me asking you what you want. I clearly meant, what do you want to happen. Me "addressing" people's opinions of data in this thread will achieve nothing. I can't even convince you, so how could I convince 4 billion people, or whatever the ridiculous population of the planet is these days. I lose track

    You know what, there's little point. You're clearly much smarter than me and have all the answers. I look forward to you saving the world.

    edit: nearly 8 billion. Fuck, there's a big part of the problem right there. Have you considered that in your expert analysis?
     
  34. mesyn191

    mesyn191 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,795
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    Given your rather dickish allusion ("Do you want that grape you think you deserve?") to me being just like the monkey in the video you posted no you weren't at all being obvious.

    Actually I wasn't at all. I was taking "what do you want" quite literally. (edit) This was also due in part again to the monkey allusion you made.

    I could have all the answers and be smarter than you and it wouldn't matter one bit given the current President and Congress.

    Remember, its not a Just World we live in and as a direct result of that bad people with bad ideas can and often do get to do what they want instead.

    (edit)
    I gave you an example of something to address in that reply. Why don't you start working on that?

    edit: Yeah I just bet you will, given how reasonable and honest you've been in your posting so far in thread on this topic. /sarc \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  35. davethehedgehog

    davethehedgehog Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    151
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2017
    Sure, I'll get right on it.
     
  36. davethehedgehog

    davethehedgehog Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    151
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2017
    Fair enough, I'm working and I'm bored, and I don't think you're a bad dude. I didn't mean to call you a monkey, I'm sorry if I offended you. I was trying to draw a parallel more widely than you as an individual. You will disagree with these, but so what, and the below isn't complete. Just as much as I could be bothered to write before I got bored. I favor a strong and positive return back to traditional family values. Not this namby-pamby attitude you see in the press where lip service is paid. I don't live in the US, but we have much the same problems over here as you. So here you go. Please bear in mind, my opinions are my own, and these are designed to deal with the MAJORITY of situations, not any outliers that you might throw my way

    1. A return of the married couples allowance, encouraging partners to stick together economically as well as socially with the message it sends. This was rescinded by Labour, a leftist government in the UK. Money is a big issue for married couples, and is a big influence I think in success of partnerships
    2. A slowing down of so-called "progressive" changes and attitudes within society. These may be good things eventually, but forcing them on people too quickly and too harshly by backing them with legal force is damaging cohesion and causing people to feel no longer welcome. Especially within schools, political opinion has no place in the school room. That stuff is for the family, and don't tell me it doesn't happen. I moved my kids because of it.
    3. Return of free speech, but coupled with the ability to ridicule and ostracize those that say things that are unacceptable. You can say what you want, and I should be free to call you a dick.
    4. A recognition that people are different, some are clever, some are not. Some kids are well behaved, some are not. Everyone is dealt a different card, it's how you play it that matters, and people should't feel like society owes them a "do-over" if they fuck up.

    Less to do with the family...

    5. ... but similar to above, a slowing, not a stopping, of immigration into the country. The UK is taking on a city the size of Liverpool every year, mostly from the EU. That kind of rapid change causes the same as the above, and doesn't allow infrastructure to compensate and grow organically. It's alright complaining about the fact the infrastructure isn't there, doesn't magic up the money for it. My kids class size before I moved them was 34, I went to the exact same school and I had low 20's. Two of the kids in my boy's class couldn't speak English and caused massive issues, hence the trigger for moving him.
    6. A changing of the tax system to encourage savings and proper money management. Rebalancing tax from earnings to spendings. Reduction of income tax overall, increase of sales tax.
    7. Massive reductions of corporation tax for companies below £1m turnover to encourage small businesses to grow, invest, and also stay small.
    8. In the UK specifically, a return of sovereignty as a realisation that the differential between somewhere like the UK and somewhere like Bulgaria is insurmountable. A recognition that this is being driven by corporations wishing to see a normalisation compensation for trained skill labour within the west to lower levels by introducing competition.


    And most of all, I'd like people to admit that the socialist, progressive attitudes being foisted on people are the cause of many of the problems we have. These problems need to be fixed, and not through bully-boy tactics and silencing people's protests. If they're not, well that's why you get an insufferable idiot like Trump in the Whitehouse and Brexit. People save their protests for the ballot box.

    edit: I realize I didn't answer your 20% question, but I don't live in the US, so I don't have any experience as to why that might be there, or even if it's true. I only pay attention to US politics in a point and laugh kind of way
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
    mesyn191 likes this.
  37. mesyn191

    mesyn191 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,795
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    So there is much in the UK I'm not really knowledgeable about at all here, politically or socially, and maybe you don't know enough about the US to respond properly to the question I put to you so if its OK with you I'll just drop this topic for now.
     
    davethehedgehog likes this.
  38. thenjduke

    thenjduke Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    344
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    wow this is weird.
     
    mullet likes this.
  39. maxz01

    maxz01 n00bie

    Messages:
    25
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2017
    I'm not a big fan of the death "penalty" because it is not a penalty at all. You can't be harmed by your own death, since there is nobody there to experience the harm. You could even argue that it is the death reward, if life on the whole contains more suffering than pleasure.
     
  40. kju1

    kju1 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,554
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2002

    Id actually say that most law are focused one #6,8, and 9. #7 isnt illegal per se and thats more of a morality thing that may or may not be right depending on your lifestyle choices.

    Either way this dude was whacked if he thought it was "ok" to shoot someone over a broken toy. Its not like he couldnt live without it or just go buy another one for like 20 bucks. People need to stop devaluing each others lives.
     
    lcpiper likes this.
Tags: