NCASE M1 version changelog and suggestions thread

[AFD]

Yeah I guess it's easy to forget about it but indeed, we need it for pulling the top panel off.

You can also start at the front, instead. Remove the front panel, then gently apply pressure under the front ODD slot overhang of the top panel (grabbing on the sides near the frame, not the very front), and then work your way back.

I can't remember exactly, but I think that's how I've been doing it. Though there's probably less chance for bending the panel or breaking clips if you can get all four mounts to pop at the same time (don't think I've ever been able to).

 

[HoserDave]

The overhang is there to let you remove the panel. How exactly are you guys getting yours off, if not pulling from the overhang?

I'm all for removing the screw hole, but the suggestion of adding the lip to aid in picking up the case might still work (not a fan of removing the overhang itself). You could leave a 1-2 cm gap on each side of the lip to aid in popping off the top panel. If you grab the top to pick up the case you're most likely going to be grabbing it in the middle anyway. Just a thought.

 

[Necere]

I'm all for removing the screw hole, but the suggestion of adding the lip to aid in picking up the case might still work (not a fan of removing the overhang itself). You could leave a 1-2 cm gap on each side of the lip to aid in popping off the top panel. If you grab the top to pick up the case you're most likely going to be grabbing it in the middle anyway. Just a thought.

There's not really any way of adding a lip without compromising the integrity of the frame. See this pic from earlier in the thread:

You'd have to flip the top bend out, but since it forms an important structural element of the frame, you couldn't just cut parts of it out like you describe.

 

[AFD]

There's not really any way of adding a lip without compromising the integrity of the frame.

Couldn't a small lip be made by leaving a portion of the center power plug hole?

Not sure how sturdy it would be though.

 

[vipz]

Could the bend be achieved by first folding the top out, then back in?

 

[Necere]

Remind me why you guys want a lip in the first place? Recognizing that it's only 5mm - 3.5mm at the center inlet location (due to the 1.5mm thick model ID plate). Seems too small to be useful for any kind of lifting.

 

[AFD]

Remind me why you guys want a lip in the first place? Recognizing that it's only 5mm - 3.5mm at the center inlet location (due to the 1.5mm thick model ID plate). Seems too small to be useful for any kind of lifting.

A lip on the frame would be nice just to have a place to lift the M1 (to more easily stick a hand under the case) or to possibly carry (2 or 3 fingers on lip and other hand under the bottom front).

This is what I had in mind..

 

[Necere]

A lip on the frame would be nice just to have a place to lift the M1 (to more easily stick a hand under the case) or to possibly carry (2 or 3 fingers on lip and other hand under the bottom front).

This is what I had in mind..

Yeah, I get you. It's just that I wouldn't want it to extend past the top panel, right? And the top panel only extends 5mm... and the serial/model ID plate is 1.5mm thick... 3.5mm just isn't much at all to be usable.

 

[GBH2]

A lip on the frame would be nice just to have a place to lift the M1 (to more easily stick a hand under the case) or to possibly carry (2 or 3 fingers on lip and other hand under the bottom front).

This is what I had in mind..

I always remove the top panel by pulling up from that overhang. I have never even put the screw in the top panel and I have never had a problem "accidentally" removing the top when trying to lift the M1.

If I want to lift the M1 I pick it up from the bottom or I grip the front and back between my hands.

I don't really think anything is necessary to help lift it but wouldn't it be much better just to come up with an optional handle to screw onto the back somewhere? It would be much more useful without compromising the present integrity of the M1.

e.g.

 

[cowsgomoo]

The overhang is there to let you remove the panel. How exactly are you guys getting yours off, if not pulling from the overhang?

I use my fingernails (they're not long) and apply pressure on top of the panels and the side panels pop off easily. There's less bending of the panels when I do that. If I use the overhang, the panels will bend and I don't feel comfortable with that. Though I didn't say anything about removing the overhang completely but just shortening them a bit.

 

[AFD]

Yeah, I get you. It's just that I wouldn't want it to extend past the top panel, right?

Yeah, it might look kinda off being extended past the current top panel. Maybe same idea, but bent downward at a 45° angle?

Oops, nevermind. Just realized that doing that would likely block the power receptacle (and/or serial plate). Though doing this, with the panel also extended for just the same area and bent at the same angle would allow for the security screw to be located in a slightly less obvious location.

Lol, at my solution being worse than the problem

Anyway, I personally don't mind whether the panel overhang at the back is flush or extended, since the panel can be removed from other locations. I suppose it might be worth making flush, if it means less chance for accidental removal and the deletion of the security screw.

However, I would really love to have a rear handle or two, like GBH2 suggested. Would probably be a major pain in the ass to design for this particular case, but would definitely be an awesome addition if possible.

 

[Bobalias_LeShay]

I'm really confused here. What's so hard about picking up this case like you pick up just about every other sizable object in your life? (Putting your hands under it.) We don't need a lip that's of questionable utility and hurts the structure and appearance of the case.

If you're that worried about being able to lift a small box shaped object, take the serial number plate off and stick a couple fingers in there under the existing frame rail.

 

[AFD]

I'm really confused here. What's so hard about picking up this case like you pick up just about every other sizable object in your life? (Putting your hands under it.)

RTFT? Anyway.. couple reasons. First, the entire reason there is a security screw on the top panel, is to safeguard against someone lifting the case by the panel and having it pop off. Secondly, there's just not much of anything to grab on to otherwise.

That's why folks were suggesting either removing the overhang of the top panel entirely, or providing a "lip" of some sort. There's also not much room to get your fingers under the case to begin to carry it normally (as you so wisely suggested), so a lip could possibly help by providing an initial spot to lift the case slightly, then proceed to pick it up normally with both hands under the case.

An added rear lip or shortening of the overhang could actually improve the appearance of the case, if it means being able to delete the top panel security screw.

Personally, I can figure out how to lift and carry my M1 just fine.. but I'd truly hate to hear if someone down the road ends up dropping their entire build.

 

[SithSolo1]

I'm really confused here. What's so hard about picking up this case like you pick up just about every other sizable object in your life? (Putting your hands under it.) We don't need a lip that's of questionable utility and hurts the structure and appearance of the case.

If you're that worried about being able to lift a small box shaped object, take the serial number plate off and stick a couple fingers in there under the existing frame rail.

I'm right there with you.

Fingers under the front, tip up. Hand under bottom, lift. Fin

 

[Bobalias_LeShay]

RTFT?

I did read the thread, and what I got from it is that the screw is going away (because it's ugly and of questionable use and was LL's idea to being with), the overhang isn't getting changed (or it'd be tough to pop the top panel off), and there isn't a lip being added (because of the way the bends and frame are now and how small it'd have to be to fit under the existing overhang). Then people started complaining about wanting a lip. Did I miss something? I still don't understand what's so hard about picking the case up the same way you pick up a cardboard box with no handles. You picked up the shipping box your case came in just fine, use the same technique for your case. And even assuming it is difficult to pick up, how often do people move their computer tower? This is a debate about adding something that doesn't really matter and would add delay and complexity to the next run. Minor changes only, remember.

 

[AFD]

And even assuming it is difficult to pick up, how often do people move their computer tower? This is a debate about adding something that doesn't really matter and would add delay and complexity to the next run. Minor changes only, remember.

Production of the M1 carry bag has already started (LINK), so there are some folks planning on moving their build around on a regular basis.

Lifting a fully-loaded M1 isn't quite the same as lifting the shipping box it came in (weight, panels). The only safe way to lift or carry the M1 is with both hands under the frame, so hopefully we don't get people trying to secure it by holding on to the top or front panels. Also, the top panel can be intentionally removed without needing the rear overhang.

I agree that v2 should only be minor changes, and that there's probably no easy way of incorporating a safe lifting/holding spot without a major redesign. But I do think that small issues like this do matter, and should be taken into consideration before Necere finalizes his design.

Would be nice if the sliding panel idea could actually be done, as this would negate any possible issues with accidental panel removal (or panel warping), and the case could be lifted safely by grabbing the rear panel overhang or the front panel itself (if both were made to slide into position toward the ODD slot). Maybe v3?

 

[Jaa-Yoo]

Yeah I guess it's easy to forget about it but indeed, we need it for pulling the top panel off.

Not really. I posted in the original m1 thread about how i remove my mine, in response to talk about broken clips and bent panels.
On the bottom of the panel (the long side), there's just enough of a lip there to catch with your fingers. Pushing (or pulling) causes the panel clips to release easily. Once a side panel is off, there's that same amount of lip on the long side of the top panel. Applying the same technique will give you the same easy release. Give it a try, i sh!t you not, the panels pop off really easy this way compared to pulling them off using the lip at the back.

 

[adamantium]

And even assuming it is difficult to pick up, how often do people move their computer tower?

I pick mine up between 4 and 8 times a day. I original suggested the 'lip' several weeks back in response to concern that removing the screw would cause people to accidentally pop their top. I guess I was wrong. Given all the lip, it looks like several have popped their tops after the screw was removed.

The original and only purpose of the screw was to prevent accidentally popping the top off if you lifted it by the top. The problem is that it introduced another concern of accidentally bending your top when you remove it if you forgot to remove the only panel screw. So there is potential for an accident either way. One may destroy your computer, the other may mangle your computer. I prefer to assume the responsibility of not dropping my computer, having a cleaner top that doesn't get mangled, and not having to carry a screwdriver wherever I go. The lip would serve the same purpose as the top's lip does now, so it has as much value as the original purpose of the screw. If that purpose is now in question, then the lip is also in question.

The suggestion for the little lip over the center plug would be better than nothing as long as you don't use the center plug. I use the center plug, so that is of no benefit to me, and the plug provides similar benefit. In addition given that I have a reservoir, I have something even bigger to grip which is screwed in with four screws. I have also removed one of the expansion slot covers and have been using it to lift.

It would be great if the case included a grip of some kind on the back, maybe fold the cutout for the top expansion slot outward if not too difficult to manufacture. That would also increase the rigidity of the back panel. With or without it I am happy. Some may want to mod their own solution too. I'm thinking maybe a single heavy duty quick detach sling swivel. That way it could hang around my neck and shoulder ncase I needed it.

 

[PlayfulPhoenix]

This would certainly add complexity to an otherwise simple feature, but I recall a Lian-Li case that had a 240mm rad mount which hovered over the motherboard, but was hinged at the back of the case. In this way you could "swing" the side bracket open like a door, and keep a radiator installed whilst making it and the rest of the case accessible:

I think that such functionality would be quite awesome to have in the M1. Installation of anything on the side (and in particular water cooling) would be much much easier. Plus you could have a glory shot of an open NCase with the door swung open . But you would have to find a way to allow for a detachable hinge that doesn't require any design compromises elsewhere. Plus the cost of manufacture may be considerable.

 

[Bobalias_LeShay]

I pick mine up between 4 and 8 times a day.

Out of curiosity, why are you moving your (desktop) computer 4-8 times a day? I'm trying to understand the use case.

 

[DarkStryke]

Maybe he's one of those types that brings a PC to Starbucks

 

[adamantium]

Out of curiosity, why are you moving your (desktop) computer 4-8 times a day? I'm trying to understand the use case.

The question was 'pick it up' not 'move it'. Each move requires two pick ups. One to put it in the carry bag at the source and another to take it out of the carry bag at the destination. One location change and back takes 4 pick ups. Two location changes and back takes 6 to 8 depending on which previous location you return to. Water cooling doesn't help. My biceps and deltoids are HUGE! (at least on one side)

EDIT: My mistake. The question really was 'move it'. I guess I got so involved in the picking it up part that I made the mistake. My answer is now: I move my computer 2 - 4 times a day.

Maybe he's one of those types that brings a PC to Starbucks

What's Starbucks?

 

[Cecom]

This would certainly add complexity to an otherwise simple feature, but I recall a Lian-Li case that had a 240mm rad mount which hovered over the motherboard, but was hinged at the back of the case. In this way you could "swing" the side bracket open like a door, and keep a radiator installed whilst making it and the rest of the case accessible:

I think that such functionality would be quite awesome to have in the M1. Installation of anything on the side (and in particular water cooling) would be much much easier. Plus you could have a glory shot of an open NCase with the door swung open . But you would have to find a way to allow for a detachable hinge that doesn't require any design compromises elsewhere. Plus the cost of manufacture may be considerable.

i like that

 

[cowsgomoo]

Maybe he's one of those types that brings a PC to Starbucks

But Starbucks is reserved for Apple products only.

 

[PlayfulPhoenix]

But Starbucks is reserved for Apple products only.

And, frighteningly enough, Dell towers and CRT's, if Google Image results are any indication

The irony of this all being that bringing a NCase computer and monitor to Starbucks, comparatively, would be awesome.

...Right?

 

[SithSolo1]

This would certainly add complexity to an otherwise simple feature, but I recall a Lian-Li case that had a 240mm rad mount which hovered over the motherboard, but was hinged at the back of the case. In this way you could "swing" the side bracket open like a door, and keep a radiator installed whilst making it and the rest of the case accessible:

I think that such functionality would be quite awesome to have in the M1. Installation of anything on the side (and in particular water cooling) would be much much easier. Plus you could have a glory shot of an open NCase with the door swung open . But you would have to find a way to allow for a detachable hinge that doesn't require any design compromises elsewhere. Plus the cost of manufacture may be considerable.

My guess is Lian-Li probably has a patent on that by now and would charge a licencing fee to use it even though the "dual-rad mount bracket over the motherboard" was likely borrowed from the M1.

 

[Necere]

My guess is Lian-Li probably has a patent on that by now and would charge a licencing fee to use it even though the "dual-rad mount bracket over the motherboard" was likely borrowed from the M1.

I don't know if they do or don't, but a hinge would place stricter limits on radiator length. Additionally, I don't think there's enough room to attach a hinge without interfering with the 92mm fan mount.

 

[PlayfulPhoenix]

I don't know if they do or don't, but a hinge would place stricter limits on radiator length. Additionally, I don't think there's enough room to attach a hinge without interfering with the 92mm fan mount.

I'm at work so I can't elaborate at the moment, but I was thinking either using a continuous hinge or a barrel hinge.

A continuous hinge (I think) would be negligible in terms of affecting radiator mounting, but it would interfere with the 92mm fan mount screw holes unless you essentially drilled through where they intersected (which is possible and passable, but more work). A barrel hinge could potentially restrict the radiator by a few mm, but at first glance I think it can be done in a way that would mean no interference to anything. Such a hinge would be complex to introduce though.

Another possibility that is simpler and would absolutely not interfere with anything is a pin-and-barrel hinge. This is where you mount the "barrel" on the interior-back of the case and below where the 240mm mount is currently, and then have a pin that sticks out of the bottom left of the side mount, which would be socketed into place. This would have e added benefit of having the most rigidity.

I'm probably doing a terrible job of explaining this so I'll try to mock up something and post it on my lunch break.

 

[AFD]

I was thinking either using a continuous hinge or a barrel hinge.

I really like this idea for the M1.. if it's possible to either completely remove the hinged side rack, or to have it completely swing out of the way. Just don't want to see this making mobo and/or air cooler installation any more difficult than it already is.

Is anyone else beside me actually using an interior rear exhaust fan? I definitely see the need to keep the external reservoir mount in place (which I don't think this would interfere with), but I'm not really sure if a rear fan is actually needed for most builds in this case. Maybe?

 

[adamantium]

I don't know if they do or don't, but a hinge would place stricter limits on radiator length. Additionally, I don't think there's enough room to attach a hinge without interfering with the 92mm fan mount.

Is anyone else beside me actually using an interior rear exhaust fan? I definitely see the need to keep the external reservoir mount in place (which I don't think this would interfere with), but I'm not really sure if a rear fan is actually needed for most builds in this case. Maybe?

Another question is does anyone really use the 80mm fan mount instead of the 92mm? Maybe the 80mm holes could be removed to allow slots for the 92mm. If not maybe the 80 could be rotated.

Necere what do you think about the idea of folding the top most expansion slot cutout as a lift point on the back. It wouldn't need to stick out any further than the other fold for the expansion slot tabs, and doesn't seem to be in the way of anything. It would provide a larger 'lip' for handling and would strengthen the back panel.

 

[cowsgomoo]

Is anyone else beside me actually using an interior rear exhaust fan? I definitely see the need to keep the external reservoir mount in place (which I don't think this would interfere with), but I'm not really sure if a rear fan is actually needed for most builds in this case. Maybe?

I'm using it only to balance the intake/exhaust in my particular build. I'm doing exhaust at the bottom of the case so I use the rear fan as an intake, but frankly it's not necessary.

Only case where I see it's necessary:
1) Short tower coolers like the NH-U9B where the rear is used as intake or exhaust.
2) top down air cooler or side bracket radiator with fans exhausting out the side of the case. Rear fan could be used as intake in this case.
Otherwise I don't see any reason to use the back fan except for as a placebo. There's too many holes all around that area to use it as exhaust.

 

[Bobalias_LeShay]

My answer is now: I move my computer 2 - 4 times a day.

I understand that part but I'm still wondering why? Do you use it in place of a laptop for computing in non-home locations? Use it at work? I need a user story here I'm curious about reasons that people move their desktops that much.

 

[adamantium]

I'm using it only to balance the intake/exhaust in my particular build. I'm doing exhaust at the bottom of the case so I use the rear fan as an intake, but frankly it's not necessary.

Only case where I see it's necessary:
1) Short tower coolers like the NH-U9B where the rear is used as intake or exhaust.
2) top down air cooler or side bracket radiator with fans exhausting out the side of the case. Rear fan could be used as intake in this case.
Otherwise I don't see any reason to use the back fan except for as a placebo. There's too many holes all around that area to use it as exhaust.

Are you using an 80mm or 92mm on the back?

 

[cowsgomoo]

Are you using an 80mm or 92mm on the back?

I'm using a 92mm Noctua fan.

 

[adamantium]

I understand that part but I'm still wondering why? Do you use it in place of a laptop for computing in non-home locations? Use it at work? I need a user story here I'm curious about reasons that people move their desktops that much.

I see. I use my computer as a development server for work, personal projects, and as a portable demo system for server software. Its like a laptop to me but more powerful. I need to run multiple virtual machines and use multiple large monitors at all destinations. I also carry a laptop, external storage, wireless keyboard & mouse, network switch, cables, and tools.

 

[adamantium]

I'm using a 92mm Noctua fan.

Thanks. I wonder if anyone uses 80mm. 92mm moves more air with less noise at same price.

 

[Necere]

A continuous hinge (I think) would be negligible in terms of affecting radiator mounting

The size of the hinge itself is not the only factor limiting radiator length. As the bracket swings out, if the radiator is too long it will catch on the front of the chassis:

Another issue is with the 3.5" HDD bracket, as shown above, which won't clear the top side rail.

Necere what do you think about the idea of folding the top most expansion slot cutout as a lift point on the back. It wouldn't need to stick out any further than the other fold for the expansion slot tabs, and doesn't seem to be in the way of anything. It would provide a larger 'lip' for handling and would strengthen the back panel.

Two things: the slot cutout needs to be notched a couple mm to make the bend, which reduces the already small bridge between the expansions slot and motherboard I/O cutouts; and with an expansion card installed you'd have little space for your fingers between the card's connectors and the tab. To illustrate:

It would make more sense on the bottom slot, but at that point, why not just grab from the bottom? I think a 10mm tab is inadequate for proper lifting in any case.

 

[Topweasel]

Yeah I have had enough issues with DVI connectors and Serial connectors on ressesed (fogive the spelling) expansion slots. You see it more on computers with trays that slide out. Even in the picture above you can see how some DVI cables will have a connector too thick to fit under it. That wouldn't be a goo spot for it. Though I don't think you need it at all. At worst maybe just have taller feet so you can get a hand under it easier.

 

[PlayfulPhoenix]

The size of the hinge itself is not the only factor limiting radiator length. As the bracket swings out, if the radiator is too long it will catch on the front of the chassis:

Another issue is with the 3.5" HDD bracket, as shown above, which won't clear the top side rail.

Thanks for the quick response Necere!

First, in terms of what I was thinking about earlier for a pin-and-barrel socketed hinge (I'm no engineer, only worked in a hardware store during high school, so this could be a great or terrible idea):

(Other possibilities are the aforementioned continuous or traditional barrel hinges)

Still, the conflict of the radiator (or HD cage) intersecting the right side is bad bad bad. I wish I had thought of that earlier...

Question, though: Would it do that if you could magically "swing" the side as-is now? In other words, does compensation for the hinge in the rendering, in terms of placement (i.e shifting things slightly right), create or exaserbate the problem? And what radiator + fan thinkness are you finding causes an issue?

I would totally break out my mad geometry skills right now if I had a case... And I wasn't at work... But I suppose I'm just asking if this is still feasible enough to continue exploring. Some shifting or minor reductions, rather than a dimension change. That rendering makes it look awfully close...

Also, admittedly, I don't mind that a drive cage wouldn't work so much, though that's entirely personal bias. It's just that the benefits from a WC perspective (especially when it comes to set stuff up) are quite great IMHO.

If we can get this to work with a radiator I would quite like to see it implemented - but I am presuming at this point that the work and compromises would likely be too great.

 

[Necere]

Question, though: Would it do that if you could magically "swing" the side as-is now? In other words, does compensation for the hinge in the rendering, in terms of placement (i.e shifting things slightly right), create or exaserbate the problem? And what radiator + fan thinkness are you finding causes an issue?

I didn't shift it at all. That's the H220 rad in the model with 25mm thick fans. The thing is it already just barely fits in the case:

There's really no way you could swing it out.

There's also an additional complicating factor I neglected to mention: the dual-position mounting of the radiator bracket.

So in the end, yeah, it might be nice. But there's really no way to do it without giving up one thing or another, or making the case larger.