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NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)
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rfarmer
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If you are looking for a compact 1070 you might consider http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500408
Not as small as the Gigabyte but it is 8.27" x 4.80" (122mm) Necere says there is 121mm at the back corner for pcb clearance. That is only 1mm, if it was me I would give it a try.
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I appreciate the suggestion, but I'm looking for a blower-style 1070 with 0db at idle, preferably in a mini/shorter form-factor for improved airflow in the case. But something tells me no such card exists, or am I mistaken?
Qrash
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Thanks to everyone for all the feedback! The part list is just about finalized:
CPU: Core i5 6600k
Cooler: Noctua NH-U9S
MB: Asus Z710I Pro Gaming
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB 2133MHz
M.2: Samsung 950 Pro 512GB
PSU: Corsair SF450
GPU: Gigabyte GTX 1070 Mini
ODD: Silverstone SOB02
Fans: Noctua NF-F12 (x2)
I only have two questions left: optimal fan configuration, and installation order.
I was planning to have one 120mm fan exhaust from the rear, and one 120mm fan acting as an intake from the front side panel, next to the CPU cooler. The idea is to bring cold air into the case, through the CPU cooler, and then exhaust out the back. The GPU is blower style, but would be 0db at idle.
Would this fan configuration inhibit dust from entering the system, or should I add another intake fan (and where)? I’m also planning to cut/tape pantyhose to the inside of the perforated panels to help manage the dust (filters are pricey).
Finally, any pointers for the build/installation order? I’m hoping to knock this out relatively quickly, but it’s my first ITX
Thanks as always for the help!
I'm arriving late to your post and I see that you've received some good advice so far. I hope mine is helpful as well.
I am building an M1 for my son as a Christmas present and like you I have chosen the Noctua NH-U9s for the CPU cooler. I have added a second NF-A9 PWM fan to the heatsink, with the entire cooler aligned to draw in from the direction of the SF450 and out towards the rear of the case. Both fans plug into the CPU fan header using the splitter that came with the cooler (or was it the extra NF-A9 fan?).
I too like the idea of a side fan as an intake for the case, but if a 120 mm fan is good, why not go bigger? I am using the Noctua NF-A15 PWM fan. It has the same mounting holes as a 120 mm fan so it fits perfectly on the front half of the side bracket. There is no interference with drives mounted to the inside of the front panel or the NH-U9S (though it is close) or the full-length Gigabyte Geforce GTX 1070 G1 Gaming. I added a 120 mm wire grill to the fan to make sure the magnetic air filter (standard since revision 4 of the case) doesn't get sucked into the fan blades. The grills that come with the M1 are nice and flat. I used the NF-A15 's extension cable to route the cable along the underside of the top of the case frame, using the panel clips to hold the cable in place as it passes discreetly to the rear of the case and then down to the motherboard's chassis fan header.
For some pointers about assembling your system, I will shamelessly direct you to an earlier post I made that I think has been helpful for others: https://hardforum.com/threads/ncase...n-first-post.1717132/page-519#post-1042461452
Finally, here is a link to my Ncase M1 Build album (not my son's M1 build) on Imgur: http://imgur.com/a/BWiDh
Note: I modded my Silverstone SX600-G power supply with an external fan. That's why it's facing into the case. For my son's M1 I have the SF450 with its intake facing outwards, like most builds have it. I also replaced my GTX 970 heatsink with a thick third-party one and added 2 slim 140 mm fans to the case bottom. So the hardware in the Imgur album is a lot different than yours (or my son's), but the principles still apply. Good luck!
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Why a blower style? You can find plenty of standard cards with 2 fans that have 0dB at idle and are quieter than blower style under load. I am using an EVGA mini with 1 fan and it is too loud IMO. A friend has the ASUS Strix and it works very well. Have a look if you can find a card you like. Air flow isn't a big problem in the case and the 1 side panel fan will feed the CPU sufficiently.
As Qrash mentions above, I also have the 150mm NF-A15 in the side panel on top of my NH-C14. It only costs a tiny bit more than the 120mm fan so I guess that i a good choice. I just wasn't sure if it would fit with your style CPU cooler - but apparently it does.
The case floor can also take larger fans. A 140mm fan with 120mm hole spacing fits or a 140mm standard with double sided tape works perfectly well. I have 140mm and 120mm next to eachother.
The case has the side panel magnetic filter and also has two 120mm plastic filter that you have to screw in, on the bottom.
An open air design would exhaust hot air inside the case, increasing temperatures for both the CPU and GPU -- possibly driving fan speed even higher, and also increasing noise. For this application, a blower-design would work best, and the 0db at idle feature would ensure mostly silent operation. The problem is that I would like a blower-design with the 0db feature, but with a shorter PCB for improved airflow in the case. I don't believe such a card exists for 1070 yet. Does anyone know if there's any plans for a mini 1080 in the works?
It's a shame the Gigabyte 1070 mini is too wide, otherwise it would have been perfect.
Oh, I didn't realize it came with the magnetic side panel; I thought just the two 120mm filters. Thanks for letting me know.
Sagar Chakraborty
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I have gone through what you are going through and I finalised the MSI 1070 Aero. Though I plan to use an AIO for the CPU so Air flow will be important for the other MB parts and not the CPU. I wanted the hot air to be sent to the back of the case and not in the case by the GPU. Later on if the GPU temp is higher I will add 2 fans to the bottom of the case.
I have an ASUS GTX 1080 STRIX in the NCASE, I would say that it's the perfect card for the NCASE, the fit it tight, the card being a bit longer than reference design, but it runs quiet, while playing The Witcher 3 with everything on ultra beside hairwork I get an average 85FPS and my temperature on the GPU never exceeds 75 celcius. The impact on the CPU is also very minimal as the temperature barely breaks 50 celcius. Now in my case I have a 92mm exhaust fan, so that could help.
All in all it is a myth that you need a blower style card.
Sagar Chakraborty
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What CPU cooler you have?
I also second that a blower style is not needed. The Strix / EVGA cards and a few more have 0dB modes. During office work the temp of the cards will idle around 30-35°C. During gaming the NCASE M1 has such good ventilation that any heat generated by the GPU is dissipated very quickly. My overclocked GPU reaches 75°C and my CPU is at 45°-50°C under full load. Even without the GPU being stressed the CPU reaches 45°-50°C. So the heat from the GPU makes no noticable difference to the CPU temps.
Got lucky and managed to snag a Noctua C-14, but any other cooler should work as well.
Well if that's true, is there a consensus on which GTX 1070 has the best acoustic/thermal performance, and is hopefully compatible with the ncase M1? I'm more concerned with acoustics/thermals than OC potential, aesthetics, etc. I'd also prefer something manageable for installation (i.e., not some mammoth beast with 1mm clearance).
Suggestions?
Qrash
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The Gigabyte GTX 1070 G1 Gaming fits well (H=41 L=280 W=114 mm) and comes overclocked, though you can choose to run in Gaming Mode (Base = 1594 MHz, Boost = 1784 MHz) or OC Mode (Base = 1620 MHZ, Boost = 1822 MHz). The cooler is a large 3 fan unit and there is not difficulty fitting the PCI-E power connectors within the side panel. It even has a metal backplate.
Pardon the mess on the desk. BTW, I have a 15 mm thick Seagate 4TB drive on the inside of the front panel. That is why I have the 2TB Seagate velcro'd to the back of the SF450. If I stacked both drives to the front panel my NF-A15 side intake fan would not fit between the drives and the fron tNF-A9 fan on the NH-U9S heatsink.
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incredadamible
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Check out the Gigabyte 1070 ITX, Anyone Have It thread. Someone posted they had this card installed in their M1. Also, if you read down the link you posted from reddit, most people don't have a concern with the PCB touching the case...it's not a deal breaker for me anyway. I know people with the Asus 970 Strix had it worse and actually modified their case to allow the card to fit.
I have been on the fence with buying this card to replace my Asus GTX970 Mini since it came out...just waiting for some reviews, a price drop, or possibly hoping Asus comes out with their own version.
Chimaera43
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Think I read the Gigabyte Mini was 130mm tall. Wonder if that would fit in the bottom of the case what with a top 8-pin power plug.
Qrash
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Gigabyte states their mini is 131 mm tall. That only leaves 9 mm for the PCI-E power connector and wires. You could mod your connector to make it shorter and/or have the wires pass through side notches in the connector instead of the top. Or buy the low profile PCI-E adapters that others have used with wide graphics cards.
Chimaera43
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Does anyone have a link to the low profile PCIe adaptors? But really, I think sourcing a GPU that fits without those mods would be preferable.
The EVGA GTX 1070 FTW or GTX 1070 SC are both silent until 60°C. Under load they are pretty low as well: http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphics/95446-evga-geforce-gtx-1070-ftw-gaming-acx-30/?page=12
But Asus Strix also has OdB.
The Gigabyte cards don't have 0dB out of the box as far as I am aware, but the fan speed can be controlled with the included software.
Ugh, I just can't settle on a GPU for this build!
As I was reading through one of those 1070 mini threads, a few were complaining about fan noise at standard operation, and the fan turning on/off repeatedly when the temperature rises just above idle. The Gigabyte G1 Gaming is a bit too loud. If it's not a blower-style design, then I want something really quiet.
What about the EVGA 1070 SC Gaming? The operating noise is a reported 30db at load, with 0db at idle. However, the power draw is 170 compared to 150, so I don't know if that would tax the SF450 and cause the fan to spin? Thoughts?
As I was reading through one of those 1070 mini threads, a few were complaining about fan noise at standard operation, and the fan turning on/off repeatedly when the temperature rises just above idle. The Gigabyte G1 Gaming is a bit too loud. If it's not a blower-style design, then I want something really quiet.
What about the EVGA 1070 SC Gaming? The operating noise is a reported 30db at load, with 0db at idle. However, the power draw is 170 compared to 150, so I don't know if that would tax the SF450 and cause the fan to spin? Thoughts?
fightertoad
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I wouldn't recommend EVGA Pascal ACX 3.0 cards. I have gone through 3 of them - 2 1080 FTWs and a 1080 SC, and faced issues including black screen crashes caused by out of spec VRMs in FTWs and variable noise caused by unstable fan controller in the SC. On top of that, all ACX cards have the VRM overheating issue to rectify which they are providing thermal pads, and raising fan speeds with bios update (which will raise noise output).
I am moving my build to the NCASE from an SG13 right now primarily because the only open air cards the SG13 could accomodate were EVGAs. Getting an Asus Strix 1080 now.
Qrash
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Most have bought these from eBay. A search there for "PCI-E 6 pin 90 degree" (or 8 pin) produced several items.
My Corsair SF450 fan hasn't spun yet or I just haven't noticed and that's with a i7 6700k & 1080 STRIX
With one GPU you'll be fine with the SF450.
It is obvious that the Mini cards are louder than the 2 or 3 fan cards. They produce the same heat on a smaller body. I have a mini and next time am going for a card with more fans.
I cannot comment on any EVGA issues with the Pascal series. No idea.
My EVGA stars slowly at 60°C and there is no issue with noise around the 60°C mark. It isn't a sudden noise that kicks in. I think all manufacturers are OK with that. Read some reviews and come to your presonal conclusion.
Sorry to sound like an ass but I think that's the part where you have to do some research, the fun part of getting into mini-itx builds
incredadamible
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You can set the fan profile through Gigabytes Guru II software. I haven't used that specific software, but if it's like the Asus software you should be able to adjust the fan profile, including the temperature where the fan turns on/off (so it doesn't repeatedly turn on/off if operating at idle).
Just remember the GTX 1070 Gigabyte Mini is NOT a blower style.. It's an internal exhaust that looks similar to a blower style, but really it's not. So your point is moot. Blower = louder, but better for system temps, however none come in 0 db mode. Ample airflow through the case will avoid too much issue with an internal exhaust.. Mostly.
The results are in the upper right corner, that's a open air cooler (1080 STRIX) with an i7 6700k, takes about 5 minutes to get to those temperatures but stays stable from there, still nearly silent, I can hear the GPU cooler but I have to pay attention to it, everything maxed out in game except hairwork
fightertoad
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The results are in the upper right corner, that's a open air cooler (1080 STRIX) with an i7 6700k, takes about 5 minutes to get to those temperatures but stays stable from there, still nearly silent, I can hear the GPU cooler but I have to pay attention to it, everything maxed out in game except hairwork
Nice temps for a silent air-cooled build!
I finally received my Strix 1080 as well, great card. The only coil whine audible is in firestrike, none in other benchmarks or games including Witcher 3, while all 3 previous EVGA cards were singing in everything. No crashes, and reasonably quiet with stable fan speeds. Finally happy with a 1080 GPU! running on open bench right now, but will move everything into NCASE over the next few days.
I am starting planing my build. Parts list:
ASUS Z170I Pro Gaming Motherboard
Intel i7 6700k or i5 6600k (not sure what to go for, watercooled)
SF600 — 600 Watt 80 PLUS with custome length cables
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 3000MHz or taking over RAM I already use in my PC
Intel 600P 512GB M.2-2880 PCI-e 3.0 x 4 NVMe 3D NAND Solid State Drive
EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 FTW Gaming ACX 3.0 8192MB GDDR5 (fully watercooled)
LF REACTION 160MM RESERVOIR or M1 NCASE RESERVOIR
2x 240mm slim rad (bottom and side) - not sure yet what to choose
4x slim fans
Goal - silent or as quiet as possible. CPU + GPU + bottom rad and res would be done with hard toobing (what size should I go for?), side res will be ten connected with soft tubing for better flexibility. What do you think about it? Any advices?
ASUS Z170I Pro Gaming Motherboard
Intel i7 6700k or i5 6600k (not sure what to go for, watercooled)
SF600 — 600 Watt 80 PLUS with custome length cables
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 3000MHz or taking over RAM I already use in my PC
Intel 600P 512GB M.2-2880 PCI-e 3.0 x 4 NVMe 3D NAND Solid State Drive
EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 FTW Gaming ACX 3.0 8192MB GDDR5 (fully watercooled)
LF REACTION 160MM RESERVOIR or M1 NCASE RESERVOIR
2x 240mm slim rad (bottom and side) - not sure yet what to choose
4x slim fans
Goal - silent or as quiet as possible. CPU + GPU + bottom rad and res would be done with hard toobing (what size should I go for?), side res will be ten connected with soft tubing for better flexibility. What do you think about it? Any advices?
danny.nguyen
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I have a question regarding touching each other between no fan cr-80eh and impact. I am not sure if it affect them by touching the daughterboard and supremeFX shroud - both are metal. They won't damage each other.
According to the manufacturers homepage there is no ITX motherboard listed as compatible: http://www.nofancomputer.com/eng/products/mainboard_cr80eh03.htm
I would ask the manufacturer!
Also, the heatsink is 113mm tall. Since tha maximum height to the side bracket is 130mm, you can only fit a slim fan above the CPU cooler on the side bracket.
danny.nguyen
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But
It look sure fit to me except touching each other, and I don't know if it is safe to use when I turn the computer on or not.
It look sure fit to me except touching each other, and I don't know if it is safe to use when I turn the computer on or not.
If you feel confident it will fit, try it. I personally would write the manufacturer.
But there is no electrical issue with touching the back of the IO ports as these are also protected. Just to be safe you could put a thin plastic foil between the IO ports and the heat sink.
FWIW, this radiator fits on the bottom of the case without interfering with the front I/O cables:
Alphacool NexXxoS ST30 Full Copper Radiator 240, 120mm x 2, Dual Fan
Oh damn, thank you for clarifying. I thought it was a modified blower design, but I guess not.
After doing a bunch more research, I'm going to take the chance with an open air design GPU. I'm going with the Gigabyte 1070 G1 Gaming, with two intake fans on the bottom, and one intake fan on the side panel. I will have two 92mm fans on the CPU cooler, with the silent rpm attachment and no exhaust fans. That should hopefully be sufficient to build positive pressure, and I think the SF450 should still be sufficient.
http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/DLwpr7
Any words of warning before I commit?
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Does the GPU have a silent mode like you wanted? Or will you control it via the software?
You don't need the low noise adapter on the CPU fans if you were planning that. 4 pin fans with PWM can be controlled perfectly via the settings in the BIOS of your motherboard.
It has the 0db feature, but I still plan on tweaking the fan profile using the software. I read that this GPU is relatively quiet and performs very well in SFF builds, so that was enough to convince me. Good to know about the low noise adapter -- thanks for the heads up!