NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

[berendsp]

Maybe somone can help me out here.
It's my first time building a pc
I got all the components except for the case it self.
So I want to use a old case from a friend in the mean time.
The holes on the mobo are alliend with the screw and screw holes of the case.
Only they diddent have insulators.

My question:
Is it safe to install the motherboard on the metal case whitout insulators(no chance of shortcuts?)

See picture below for the case:
http://postimg.org/image/clpjf6j1x/

 

[Qrash]

Yes, its safe and normal. On the bottom of the motherboard there will be metal contacts around each of the mountng holes. These contacts are meant to make contact with the mounting posts or stand-offs to ground the motherboard to the case.

 

[berendsp]

Yes, its safe and normal. On the bottom of the motherboard there will be metal contacts around each of the mountng holes. These contacts are meant to make contact with the mounting posts or stand-offs to ground the motherboard to the case.

A tnx!

Will go at it tomorrow

 

[noobzilla]

From the website from Arctic:

Nothing except the huge back heatsink that didn't fit on my build, it will most likely hit something (CPU heatsink, PSU).

So with that kit you may want to look at extra heatsinks for atleast the VRMs. I don't know if the memory also needs heatsinks, the ones on my R9 290X sure don't seem to mind not having any.


You must pay attention to the height. I used the "Gelid 290 VRM kit" and it fit well:

The heatsinks had a thermal adhesive applied to them.

I sent you a PM but I figured it's better to post here so other people with the same problem with 290X reference temperature can see it too. What's your temperature on this set-up and what's your side fan set-up like? I'm curious how you exhaust the hot air. I realized it might get bad on my case since I use ATX psu (outtake), Noctua CH14 (intake), 92mm thin rear fan (outtake).


EDIT: I did some stalking and saw this post of yours

https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/my-ever-changing-main-pc-ncase-m1.47/

That pretty much answers all my questions. I was suspecting you had the gpu fans on exhaust. I assumed correctly. Now I'm wondering if it's worth investing $80 + $15 VRAM heatsinks on a used $210 290X. I also have to check at home whether the 290x heatsink screws would hit my Noctua CH14.

EDIT2: Do you use 3DMark 11? I'm not familiar using benchmarks. I got ~15900 at 67F room temp. My score does go down when room temp goes higher due to thermal throttling (maxes at 94C). I wonder how much you would score with your set-up.

 

[friend'scatdied]

Hm, looks like this run of V4s will be selling out by this shipping cycle or next.

 

[onegaynerd]

Looks like the Noctua C12P SE14 has been discontinued, and online stock is dropping fast. I snatched mine a week ago for $50 and the price has already jumped. Considering it's popularity/versatility in M1 builds, it's sad to see it die off.

Judging from how stock has dropped over the last few weeks, I would anticipate this cooler jumping to $100+ in price soon, if it's even still available at all by that point.

 

[raymondo]

Noctua already mentions the C12P on their 'discontinued products' page. They're probably bringing out a new iteration of this cooler but you never know. They did the same with the NH-C14 whose successor, the NH-C14S, unfortunately doesn't fit the Ncase anymore (at least with both fans installed).

Hopefully they won't do the same with the C12P.

 

[inchikiboze]

Happy that XelNika's findings may be able to help someone else. At least for me, it has been a pretty ideal setup. The only way I could imagine getting significantly quieter and / or cooler with these components in the M1 would be with custom liquid cooling.

Examine the dimensions of the power supply carefully. It may just barely fit, but the MSI is a large card, and it's a tight fit even with my SX600-G. For what it's worth, the SX600-G has been fine for me. I don't hear it under normal operation about a meter from my head. The only time I hear it is for a few seconds when the fan spins up (the infamous "chirping" noise) about 10 minutes after the system powers on, and even this is faint and doesn't bother me. However, I could have just gotten lucky with my particular unit or am less sensitive to these things than others; there have been plenty of complaints with this model on this thread. If you can get the SX500-LG to fit, it will surely be even quieter.

 

[ezeftw]

Hi guys. You know if the MSI GTX 980 4G fits in the v2 case? I have an opportunity to upgrade from my MSI GTX 970 4G, but i'm not sure if it will fit. The 970 fits by thiiiiiiis much

BTW, i got a Silverstone SFX 450w PSU.

 

[Boil]

When might the next round of M1s be ready for ordering? The NCASE website lists all 'models' currently Out Of Stock. Do not really want to wait for months & months…

Also, any end-user reports on the quality of the Silverstone SX600-G PSU? All the reviews on Newegg are NOT favorable. I would REALLY hate to get one & have it fry other expensive components in the build. I know the SX500-LG gets better review / less reports of destroying components, but it is also longer & has interference issues with longer graphics cards. Which is a shame, as the forthcoming 700w model would be awesome for a SFF build, plenty of power for the beefiest of GPUs, and the added headroom that the 700w brings!

Now, if EVGA could manage to actually KNOW what revision their 970 reference cards are (how can they NOT track that?), then I could feel confident about ordering & receiving a Revision 1.1 of said card. This is the ONLY revision that works with the EK full-cover water block, which makes it a fully water-cooled miniITX card! No worries about the extra 30mm of PSU then!

Yeah, I emailed EVGA about the revision numbers, and they stated that they could not be sure of what revision the units in stock would be. I guess having someone at the warehouse go over & look at the units would be too much effort. Good job on the Customer Service, EVGA…

Thank you for any info!

 

[XelNika]

When might the next round of M1s be ready for ordering? The NCASE website lists all 'models' currently Out Of Stock. Do not really want to wait for months & months…

Also, any end-user reports on the quality of the Silverstone SX600-G PSU? All the reviews on Newegg are NOT favorable. I would REALLY hate to get one & have it fry other expensive components in the build. I know the SX500-LG gets better review / less reports of destroying components, but it is also longer & has interference issues with longer graphics cards. Which is a shame, as the forthcoming 700w model would be awesome for a SFF build, plenty of power for the beefiest of GPUs, and the added headroom that the 700w brings!

1: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041874798&postcount=17747

2: I haven't heard about the SX600-G frying anything, it's just loud and has coil whine. Accidents happen with all PSUs. If the SX600-G was prone to frying stuff, it would have been covered extensively in this thread.

 

[noobzilla]

Did some experiments today on my ncase. I was also able to fit a thin 92mm fan on top of my ATX psu (had to remove a clip otherwise the switch will hit the fan).

I also found out that 2x 140 mm fans can fit side by side at the bottom by removing some of the clips if regular square fans are used. I only have one extra Noctua NF-P14, but it fits on the bottom front without taking any clips off.

I'm able to reroute some cables to make room for Arctic Accelero Extreme IV for my 290x. Depending on temperature, I will use one or two 140mm fans at the bottom as outtake. I'm not sure how the airflow will work because I use ATX psu. I may have one fan is intake and one as outtake. I'll make sure to put some wall between the two so hot air won't get recycled. I will update and post pictures once I get everything in ~ a week.

Gonna be interesting if it all works out. I'll basically have a ton of things that shouldnt fit together:

ATX psu + full sized video card + third party gpu heatsink + 3x 140mm fans

 

[Qrash]

Quite the stuffed case you have there. I look forward to reading about your findings.

 

[Boil]

1: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041874798&postcount=17747

2: I haven't heard about the SX600-G frying anything, it's just loud and has coil whine. Accidents happen with all PSUs. If the SX600-G was prone to frying stuff, it would have been covered extensively in this thread.

Thank you!

I could not bring myself to read thru the nearly 900 pages (almost 18k posts) in this thread, and reading backwards is annoying, as you always know what is going to happen… ;^p

Really hoping that ASUS will surprise me tomorrow & have a M.2 on the backside of the Maximus VIII Impact board, but I don't know. I kinda think that might not be doable because they have two U.2 ports onboard, lane counts & such…?

So while I would LOVE to be able to slap a 512GB Samsung 950 Pro into a M.2 slot on the forthcoming M8I motherboard, I will more than likely be placing a 400GB Intel 750 2.5" SSD behind the front panel. At least they are shipping from Newegg WITH the appropriate U.2 cable (w/Molex pigtail for power). But it is still less space for more money.

 

[alphataru]

So I finally got my 980 ref in from EVGA, turns out it's a blessing and a curse, as it has a backplate. I know that most people say you need to remove the backplate for it to be compatible with sx500-l, but is there any way to keep the backplate? I ask because there's a dreaded sticker of 'warranty void if removed' over one of the screws. So if there's absolutely no way of making them fit, then I'll probably have to go with sx600 and deal with the noise...

 

[Hermit2001]

So I finally got my 980 ref in from EVGA, turns out it's a blessing and a curse, as it has a backplate. I know that most people say you need to remove the backplate for it to be compatible with sx500-l, but is there any way to keep the backplate? I ask because there's a dreaded sticker of 'warranty void if removed' over one of the screws. So if there's absolutely no way of making them fit, then I'll probably have to go with sx600 and deal with the noise...

With a backplate; its tight but 'twill fit. You will probably have to flip the PSU around so the fan intakes from inside the case.

Alternatively, use a PCIE riser cable and install the 980 on the bottom 2 expansion slots.

 

[SHwoKing]

Just a question, if you use a riser for your GPU, the GPU's weight is only supported by the rear slots right ? Does it provide enough support ?

 

[noobzilla]

Just a question, if you use a riser for your GPU, the GPU's weight is only supported by the rear slots right ? Does it provide enough support ?

Since the video card will be close at the bottom of the case, you can just put some support between the video card and the case.

 

[alphataru]

With a backplate; its tight but 'twill fit. You will probably have to flip the PSU around so the fan intakes from inside the case.

Alternatively, use a PCIE riser cable and install the 980 on the bottom 2 expansion slots.

Does it impact performance at all?

 

[EdZ]

Does it impact performance at all?

Not in the slightest.

 

[2Entropy]

I can see a lot of water rigs in the build gallery. Can anyone who built one of these comment on the radiators used, and their clearance with fans fitted? Also curious about mounting pump/reservoir internally if possible, or at least just the pump.

 

[SHwoKing]

I can see a lot of water rigs in the build gallery. Can anyone who built one of these comment on the radiators used, and their clearance with fans fitted? Also curious about mounting pump/reservoir internally if possible, or at least just the pump.

I dont' own a M1 yet but I've made some heavy search on WC inside.

Most people go for the FrozenQ reservoir + Apogee Drive II combo.

But there was a build which was clever in my eyes.
The build in question :
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041861841&postcount=181

He is using this pump reservoir combo at the bottom of the case :
https://shop.ekwb.com/ek-sbay-ddc-3-2-pwm-incl-pump

And another clever idea in this build is the use of a crossflow radiator like XSPC EX 240 Xflow or Darkside LPX 240. No tube has to run behind the radiator so it is possible to go with a push pull configuration.

Some builds add a slim radiator at the bottom of the case with slim fans.

 

[2Entropy]

Thanks for your input. That is indeed a fearsome looking build! The pump seems to be a nice selection that is larger than the average, you'd hope that would help it be quieter (one of the reasons I want to go custom is GPU closed loop pump is too noisy).

Using an SFX-L in my case though so will probably have less width to play with for the rad than with the posted build using the SFX.

 

[SHwoKing]

It doesn't matter. SFX-L PSU's depth is the same as the SFX version.

The big difference is the width from top to bottom. The SFX-L cables tend to collide with the bottom of the GPU.

Watercooling is not affected by the PSU choice.

 

[2Entropy]

Ah I see, good to know.

My GPU is only 7.5" long so will have a bit more room than example rig.

What's the advantage in a thinner rad with four fans vs a thicker one with only two? Like the idea of less fans personally.

 

[SHwoKing]

That depends on radiator and fan choice.

I think thicker Rad + 2 fans should perform better.

But you have to consider that according to the M1 limitation :

Crossflow radiators are quiet rare I think. There's only two model on the market as far as I know : XSPC EX 240 crossflow with a 35,5mm thickness and the Darkside LPX 240with a 27,5 mm thickness. The builder linked above used both and had better results with the Darkside one.

If you're going with a classic dual pass radiator, it is recommended to have a maximum thickness of 60 mm fan + radiator because you'll have to pass your tube on the back. So maximum radiator thickness should be 35mm.

So to sum this up you can't use really thick radiator with the Ncase. It would be possible if there was a thick crossflow radiator on the market but there is none to my knowledge.

 

[2Entropy]

Would this rad also need additional tubing?

https://shop.ekwb.com/ek-coolstream-pe-240-dual

New to all this, but guessing you mean that because of the way the water flows you need an extra piece of tubing for the other direction instead of passing flow onto the next component?

 

[Koizer]

I've been going back and forth over this in my head for a few days, I need somebody to be a tie-breaker to stop me from overthinking and flip-flopping. I'm ordering hardware for my 2nd M1 build shortly and I can't decide which cpu cooler I want to get.

I'm going to have two 120x120x25mm intake fans at the bottom underneath a blower design GTX 970 (placeholder until new cards come out next year). I'll be using a standard sized SFX PSU and the right side of the side fan rack will have the 3.5" hard drive cage installed with two drives in it (I require a lot of storage). The motherboard will have a centrally located socket with an i5 6600K (95W) and a modest overclock would be nice if I had the thermal headroom. Final selection of the motherboard is pending... I wanted to get the Asus Impact VIII but the bugger doesn't have an M.2 slot so I'm considering alternatives.

From what I gather, the Noctua NH-C14S probably won't work as it will interfere with the 3.5" drive cage. The NH-L12 and other heatsinks with this general shape like the Thermalright AXP-200 tend to suffer from the same problem or block the pci-e slot if installed with heatpipes facing upwards. The Cryorig C1 won't fit because the socket needs to be in just the right spot (usually towards the top), and a centrally located socket basically means it is guaranteed to bump into something in any orientation, which sucks because I have a huge boner for this cooler.

What I'm considering at the moment:

#1 - NH-L9x65 and replacing the 14mm fan it comes with with a 25mm thick fan. A 120mm intake fan will be installed on the left side of the fan rack blowing air right over it.

#2 - NH-U9S installed with no fans on the side fan rack due to being too tall. I'm unsure if I would want to run this in a 1 or 2 fan configuration, blowing upwards or rearward, or whether or not I would want to include a rear 92mm fan as intake or exhaust.

#3 - Say the hell with an air cpu cooler and just get a 120mm AIO liquid cooler to occupy the left side of the fan rack. Unsure if I should have the fan as intake or exhaust. I've always used air cooling so this is a departure from business as usual.

#4 - Use the 3.5" hard drives externally and revisit the NH-C14S, NH-L12, or consider a 240mm AIO liquid cooler. The case is so versatile I'm suffering from acute choice overload.

 

[Phuncz]

What's the advantage in a thinner rad with four fans vs a thicker one with only two? Like the idea of less fans personally.

Thin fans lack a decent amount of static pressure which is preferred for radiators. And they are noisier too. Most would advise you to go with good 25mm thick fans with a high static pressure. Noctua NF-F12 is a good choice.
Four fans for a 240mm radiator will only (drastically) improve performance over two fans if the two fans were not well-suited for the radiator or heat generation. Which basically means the wrong fans (with low static pressure) or not enough radiator surface.
But considering space is at a premium in the Ncase with a 240mm radiator, there is no real benefit of replacing two 25mm fans with four 15mm fans.

 

[SHwoKing]

New to all this, but guessing you mean that because of the way the water flows you need an extra piece of tubing for the other direction instead of passing flow onto the next component?

Exactly.

About the EK Coolstream, it is 40 mm thick. Might be a little too thick.

 

[SHwoKing]

Thin fans lack a decent amount of static pressure which is preferred for radiators. And they are noisier too. Most would advise you to go with good 25mm thick fans with a high static pressure. Noctua NF-F12 is a good choice.
Four fans for a 240mm radiator will only (drastically) improve performance over two fans if the two fans were not well-suited for the radiator or heat generation. Which basically means the wrong fans (with low static pressure) or not enough radiator surface.
But considering space is at a premium in the Ncase with a 240mm radiator, there is no real benefit of replacing two 25mm fans with four 15mm fans.

I agree with what you are stating but we were not talking about four slim fans versus two 25mm fans. But four 25mm versus two 25mm fans. So this is just comparing push/pull versus push or pull. In the link i have posted above the builder used four EK Vardar 25mm thick fans. Only possible in the M1 if you use a crossflow radiator.

 

[Pat-Roner]

Does it impact performance at all?

Nope

 

[Necere]

I agree with what you are stating but we were not talking about four slim fans versus two 25mm fans. But four 25mm versus two 25mm fans. So this is just comparing push/pull versus push or pull. In the link i have posted above the builder used four EK Vardar 25mm thick fans. Only possible in the M1 if you use a crossflow radiator.

Regular thickness fans in push-pull is not easy to do in the M1. The Darkside rad in that build is 27mm thick, plus the two fans @ 25mm/ea is 77mm thick. That only leaves 8mm for airflow between the front fan and the power supply. With the 35mm thick XPSC EX 240 it would leave no space at all. I'm pretty certain you would need to use a CPU block and floor-mounted pump as well, since the Apogee Drive II would be too tall. Basically, if you want to do it, you'd probably need to copy that build pretty closely.

 

[2Entropy]

Exactly.

About the EK Coolstream, it is 40 mm thick. Might be a little too thick.

Is that a crossflow type as well, or would it need extra tubing?

Regular thickness fans in push-pull is not easy to do in the M1. The Darkside rad in that build is 27mm thick, plus the two fans @ 25mm/ea is 77mm thick. That only leaves 8mm for airflow between the front fan and the power supply. With the 35mm thick XPSC EX 240 it would leave no space at all. I'm pretty certain you would need to use a CPU block and floor-mounted pump as well, since the Apogee Drive II would be too tall. Basically, if you want to do it, you'd probably need to copy that build pretty closely.

But if you had a 40mm rad with only 2 fans, 65mm should be just about ok you think? I have a 120mm rad with fan at 65mm at the moment, it is a bit tight orientated vertically though.

 

[SHwoKing]

Regular thickness fans in push-pull is not easy to do in the M1. The Darkside rad in that build is 27mm thick, plus the two fans @ 25mm/ea is 77mm thick. That only leaves 8mm for airflow between the front fan and the power supply. With the 35mm thick XPSC EX 240 it would leave no space at all. I'm pretty certain you would need to use a CPU block and floor-mounted pump as well, since the Apogee Drive II would be too tall. Basically, if you want to do it, you'd probably need to copy that build pretty closely.

Yes totally agree. I wouldn't go for a push/pull configuration myself.

But I like the idea behind the EK Res + pump combo which allows to use any CPU waterblock and not just stick to the Apogee Drive II + External reservoir combo.

I also like the idea behind the crossflow rad in a pull configuration as you dont' have to bother with extensions to pass over your fans. Much cleaner.

 

[Necere]

But if you had a 40mm rad with only 2 fans, 65mm should be just about ok you think? I have a 120mm rad with fan at 65mm at the moment, it is a bit tight orientated vertically though.

People have certainly used thicker rads in the M1, it just makes things that much more difficult. I make my recommendations conservative so people don't get the wrong idea and end up disappointed when something doesn't work out. There is room for experimentation beyond my recommendations, but I leave that up to the user to take on.

 

[Qrash]

What I'm considering at the moment:

#1 - NH-L9x65 and replacing the 14mm fan it comes with with a 25mm thick fan. A 120mm intake fan will be installed on the left side of the fan rack blowing air right over it.

#2 - NH-U9S installed with no fans on the side fan rack due to being too tall. I'm unsure if I would want to run this in a 1 or 2 fan configuration, blowing upwards or rearward, or whether or not I would want to include a rear 92mm fan as intake or exhaust.

#3 - Say the hell with an air cpu cooler and just get a 120mm AIO liquid cooler to occupy the left side of the fan rack. Unsure if I should have the fan as intake or exhaust. I've always used air cooling so this is a departure from business as usual.

#4 - Use the 3.5" hard drives externally and revisit the NH-C14S, NH-L12, or consider a 240mm AIO liquid cooler. The case is so versatile I'm suffering from acute choice overload.

I'd go with #2; the Noctua NH-U9S. If you orientation it vertically with two fans and exhaust out the top of the case, there will still be room for the 3.5 inch drive cage on the front half of the fan bracket. I think you could even add another 92 mm fan at the back of the case as either an intake or exhaust.

 

[berendsp]

I've been going back and forth over this in my head for a few days, I need somebody to be a tie-breaker to stop me from overthinking and flip-flopping. I'm ordering hardware for my 2nd M1 build shortly and I can't decide which cpu cooler I want to get.

I'm going to have two 120x120x25mm intake fans at the bottom underneath a blower design GTX 970 (placeholder until new cards come out next year). I'll be using a standard sized SFX PSU and the right side of the side fan rack will have the 3.5" hard drive cage installed with two drives in it (I require a lot of storage). The motherboard will have a centrally located socket with an i5 6600K (95W) and a modest overclock would be nice if I had the thermal headroom. Final selection of the motherboard is pending... I wanted to get the Asus Impact VIII but the bugger doesn't have an M.2 slot so I'm considering alternatives.

From what I gather, the Noctua NH-C14S probably won't work as it will interfere with the 3.5" drive cage. The NH-L12 and other heatsinks with this general shape like the Thermalright AXP-200 tend to suffer from the same problem or block the pci-e slot if installed with heatpipes facing upwards. The Cryorig C1 won't fit because the socket needs to be in just the right spot (usually towards the top), and a centrally located socket basically means it is guaranteed to bump into something in any orientation, which sucks because I have a huge boner for this cooler.

What I'm considering at the moment:

#1 - NH-L9x65 and replacing the 14mm fan it comes with with a 25mm thick fan. A 120mm intake fan will be installed on the left side of the fan rack blowing air right over it.

#2 - NH-U9S installed with no fans on the side fan rack due to being too tall. I'm unsure if I would want to run this in a 1 or 2 fan configuration, blowing upwards or rearward, or whether or not I would want to include a rear 92mm fan as intake or exhaust.

#3 - Say the hell with an air cpu cooler and just get a 120mm AIO liquid cooler to occupy the left side of the fan rack. Unsure if I should have the fan as intake or exhaust. I've always used air cooling so this is a departure from business as usual.

#4 - Use the 3.5" hard drives externally and revisit the NH-C14S, NH-L12, or consider a 240mm AIO liquid cooler. The case is so versatile I'm suffering from acute choice overload.

You can still buy the original NH-C14. The 3.5 hard disk caddy will fit beside it.

Just replace the bottom fan with a 120mm one, or you will hit the psu

 

[Vittra]

Yes totally agree. I wouldn't go for a push/pull configuration myself.

But I like the idea behind the EK Res + pump combo which allows to use any CPU waterblock and not just stick to the Apogee Drive II + External reservoir combo.

I also like the idea behind the crossflow rad in a pull configuration as you dont' have to bother with extensions to pass over your fans. Much cleaner.

You may not like the amount of noise / vibration that combo unit is going to give you. Bay reservoirs with pumps attached to them are noted for being loud, though it might be OK if running around 30-50% speed.

 

[Koizer]

I'd go with #2; the Noctua NH-U9S. If you orientation it vertically with two fans and exhaust out the top of the case, there will still be room for the 3.5 inch drive cage on the front half of the fan bracket. I think you could even add another 92 mm fan at the back of the case as either an intake or exhaust.

You can still buy the original NH-C14. The 3.5 hard disk caddy will fit beside it. Just replace the bottom fan with a 120mm one, or you will hit the psu

Your thoughts are appreciated placing my order tonight!