NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

Hey everyone, really excited for the v2 revision! Missed out on the original as I was moving country :( Now I'm settled and able to purchase this piece of black sexiness. I know a fair few of those who got the case fitted it with the H220, and I was just curious as to whether the new H220X would be able to fit, considering the limiting factors of the case and the obscure placement of the res and pump. Though it looks like it can be taken out, the big chunk of metal sticking out might be a factor. Thoughts?
 
Thank you for replying so thoroughly, I did think that the full internal loop looked a bit difficult, but I was just wondering to try and do something new, I also liked the EK cool stream so I was wondering if it would fit, but then the requirement for a reservoir was there.
And for part 2 thanks I wasn't really thinking about a bottom mounted radiator since that seems pretty difficult since no one has seemed to do it and not very productive according to the last few pages because of the lack of space for the fans intake. And the size guidance for fitting tubes around the front of the graphics card is really useful.
The third part was kinda confusing because I only just realised that it might be different for different cooling blocks, I was talking about inputting the water at the top side of the gpu block then outputting it on the other side so I would only have to run tubes round the front of the case once and I would have room at the bottom for the pump.

I guess my plan is/was to buy a pump with integrated res then cool the CPU and gpu while having a pump at the bottom of the case with maybe some other stuff

Thanks vittra for the pictures they are actually really helpful for my plans
 
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Peter_364 said:
Since I'm really excited I've tried to get a build together, and so I thought this would be the place to ask questions. Is it possible to have a custom water cooling loop completely internally without using a rad with an internal reservoir? If so any suggestions for reservoirs?
Is there trouble putting water cooling components at the bottom of the case if a long graphics card is installed? Because I have been looking at these renderings and there seems to be very little space to manoeuvre pipes around the card, also since I'm quite new to liquid cooling it's not possible to run the pipes in one side and out the other is it?
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It's possible to create a closed loop with quick disconnects. You can bleed the system with an external radiator, and then reconnect the system without the radiator.
 
DarkStryke said:
I wouldn't accept that as a delivered product on anything put in my system. You're going to have a huge hassle dealing with them over it though.
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+1, I ordered that res and it was missing two of the brass mounting inserts to attach it to the case. Also had a defect on the accrylic face plate. Steve from Frozen Q said he would ship the parts when they were instock. That was 4 months ago now.
Just emailed him again asking for the status. . . .:mad:
 
How many stop fittings are provided with the Ncase reservoir made by FrozenQ? The pictures on the website suggest that 6 are preinstalled, with only the rear screw holes left empty, but the unit I received had the 2 bottom ones missing as well.

Edit: didn't read before posting, just saw drklu's post
 
I have only recently found out about the NCASE M1 and it looks beautiful.

My questions are: What is holding back production? Why aren't they taking preorders so they can order a larger number of cases and perhaps reduce per unit cost? Why wait to take preorders?

It seems that all the left over stock sold out in a few hours. 600 cases seems like extremely few and I hope they don't just keep doing extremely small batches when there seems to be more demand. I want one and I don't want to pay $400 on ebay...
 
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1: because there are only two people doing all the work (except manufacturing), try to realise what it takes to go from a design to a product at your doorstep. This is no small undertaking for two people in their spare time.
Just to sum up a few most people tend to forget: prototyping, tooling, customs, shipping a 1.000 of these from a foreign country to the entire world.

2: it isn't early May yet ?

3: there were 1.000 cases produced and almost all found a home where a few were destined to be parts donors.

4: every day new people come to this topic "I only found about this case today, where can I order ?". It's been about half a year since the production started and still people are coming in expecting some magical stock paid by some random rich guy to sit in some protected warehouse.
Reality: it's just two guys spending their free time realising a dream. Crowd funding paid for the costs.

If you want one, pre-order one as soon as it's possible and be glad you can get one.
 
ncaser said:
My questions are: What is holding back production? Why aren't they taking preorders so they can order a larger number of cases and perhaps reduce per unit cost? Why wait to take preorders?
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Think they're still working to finalize any minor changes in the 2nd revision. They could start taking pre-orders now, then finish the design during or after.. but trust me, the wait now doesn't feel anywhere near as long as the wait you'll have for delivery.

It goes from the exciting anticipation of "oh, any day now.. can't wait to get my order in!" to the nervous feeling of "oh shit, did the cargo ship from Taiwan get seized by Somali pirates?" :D
 
AFD said:
...trust me, the wait now doesn't feel anywhere near as long as the wait you'll have for delivery.

It goes from the exciting anticipation of "oh, any day now.. can't wait to get my order in!" to the nervous feeling of "oh shit, did the cargo ship from Taiwan get seized by Somali pirates?" :D
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I made the terrible mistake of reading this while drinking ice water :D Had to try to stifle a laugh with a mouthful. Only partially succeeded...
 
It'll probably be more like mid-May before we open up orders. We've ordered the v2 sample, but it's going to take at least another week to arrive. I also need some time to set up the website.

Bear in mind when changes are made to the design, they need to be checked on a physical sample before going ahead with production. We need to be as sure as we can be there are no problems. Nothing would screw us over faster than if we went to production, only to discover some design or manufacturing error that causes us to have to ship out 1k+ replacement parts (for example). Shipping costs alone would eat us alive. So it's important we do whatever we can to avoid mistakes. That's part of the reason I wanted to keep the first production run smaller, and why I didn't want to make a lot of changes for v2.
 
Thanks Necere,
I also have more questions to keep everyone occupied and take their mind off the impending release so here goes I will be using an Asus Maximus VI impact mobo and Reference GTX 780 Ti(with EK WB and backplate), along with the radiator from the h220, will the EK supremacy block fit with the CPU, if not is it because of the weird things holding it down do you reckon it's possible to remove them? Or will the lighter version of the block fit?
What about the EK DCC pump x-top CSQ I was thinking under the graphics card at the end or instead of the 92mm fan or even just between the mobo and radiator, are there any other places it would fit like instead of the 2.5" drive maybe even upside down at the top etc. also if I have everything completely wrong please tell me, thanks :)
 
My first fully watercooled rig. <3 this case.

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CPU runs slightly hotter, but the GPU doesn't exceed 50*C in Valley (stock and with the pump at 100%, but still ;P).
 
Yup, M.2 - it's a Crucial M550, 512GB. Works fine, but runs very hot (60*C+). Pretty fast though, at least compared to my old M4's.
 
Herstal said:
Yup, M.2 - it's a Crucial M550, 512GB. Works fine, but runs very hot (60*C+). Pretty fast though, at least compared to my old M4's.
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Oh nice! I have the M.2 M500 but mine run about 30-35C. M550 just hot or do you think it's because of your setup?
 
I think M550's simply run hot, there are many people with similar findings. I was wondering why they would add thermal throttling to an SSD when the first previews appeared... Doesn't seem to be an issue so far though.
 
Herstal said:
My first fully watercooled rig. <3 this case.





CPU runs slightly hotter, but the GPU doesn't exceed 50*C in Valley (stock and with the pump at 100%, but still ;P).
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Could I see a picture of how the tubing looks from the top down with the radiator installed. I am heavily contemplating getting myself an H220 and a water block for my R9 290 since the damn thing is so loud. What CPU and GPU are you running? I am just curious how this setup will fair when I do it myself.
 
voklskier4452 said:
Could I see a picture of how the tubing looks from the top down with the radiator installed. I am heavily contemplating getting myself an H220 and a water block for my R9 290 since the damn thing is so loud. What CPU and GPU are you running? I am just curious how this setup will fair when I do it myself.
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I also have an H220 with an R9 290(X), check out my pictures here.
 
voklskier4452 said:
Could I see a picture of how the tubing looks from the top down with the radiator installed. I am heavily contemplating getting myself an H220 and a water block for my R9 290 since the damn thing is so loud. What CPU and GPU are you running? I am just curious how this setup will fair when I do it myself.
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It's a 4770K and a Titan, on an Asus Impact. It's not particularly quiet due to the H220 pump (edit: and the PSU of course), but i can live with it.

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You could probably shorten the hoses somewhat if you install the H220 with the inlet at the bottom - it didn't fit my mobo though, so i had to improvise in order to make sure the full volume of the "res" (such as it is) is being utilized. Still, the hoses are tucked away reasonably neatly, so no big deal.

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If you want a quieter H220, make sure you run the pump and fans from seperate fan headers on your motherboard and configure them. This way you can lower the pump to a much more sane rpm (mine is reasonably quiet at 2100rpm) while keeping the fans much more dynamic with the CPU temp.

The H220 PWM splitter adjusts all the connected devices, but a loop being pumped around faster, doesn't matter as much as fans dissipating the heat better. My pump stays at 50% Duty Cycle from 0°C up to 55°C because my loop is mostly between 30°C and 50°C, load and idle respectively.
My fans however start at 45% at 0°C and rise gradually up to 50% at 50°C, at 60°C they will run at 60%.

For me, with the standard H220 fans, this is the best setting I could figure out. Keeping the noise down and keeping the temperatures reasonable.
 
I'd do that, but the Impact has very limited options when it comes to powering PWM fans, Only CPU header has actual PWM control, and even then min setting is 60% - at least without using AI Suite, which i refuse to install. Speedfan doesn't work with the Impact either. Tbh, i don't care that much about load noise anyway, as I always game with closed headphones. It's more about the idle noise, not really a major issue anyway.
 
Herstal said:
I'd do that, but the Impact has very limited options when it comes to powering PWM fans, Only CPU header has actual PWM control, and even then min setting is 60% - at least without using AI Suite, which i refuse to install. Speedfan doesn't work with the Impact either. Tbh, i don't care that much about load noise anyway, as I always game with closed headphones. It's more about the idle noise, not really a major issue anyway.
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I'm pretty sure that getting SpeedFan compatibility with the M6I is a matter of configuration e.g. setting the fan control to manual - read http://www.silentpcreview.com/SpeedFan . I don't have the M6I but I needed to do that with my P8Z77-I board before the PWM headers worked.

About having only one true PWM header on the motherboard. You also have a PWM header on the GPU. I often run my pumps off the graphics card, since the minimum setting is 30% which is a comfortable speed for DDC pumps. You need an adapter cable like this one http://www.gelidsolutions.com/products/index.php?lid=2&cid=11&id=60
 
I tried it some time ago, even in manual mode Speedfan (or any other software) doesn't detect any of the the controllers. Good idea about the GPU header, i might use it at some point - thanks.
 
Necere said:
It'll probably be more like mid-May before we open up orders. We've ordered the v2 sample, but it's going to take at least another week to arrive. I also need some time to set up the website.

Bear in mind when changes are made to the design, they need to be checked on a physical sample before going ahead with production. We need to be as sure as we can be there are no problems. Nothing would screw us over faster than if we went to production, only to discover some design or manufacturing error that causes us to have to ship out 1k+ replacement parts (for example). Shipping costs alone would eat us alive. So it's important we do whatever we can to avoid mistakes. That's part of the reason I wanted to keep the first production run smaller, and why I didn't want to make a lot of changes for v2.
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A worthwhile thing to mention - I think most people would advocate for taking the time to do it right. Does this mean, however, that there ought not be any additional changes beyond those already made, since they couldn't be physically checked (without another sample at least)? Not that I mind, but I figure such a scenario should be reflected on the improvements thread if that's the case.

Also, if you need help with the website I'd imagine that plenty of people here are proficient in web development, and would be happy to volunteer some time to contribute! That, or you could use a web service with templates and such - Wordpress being the obvious choice, though Squarespace comes to mind since they integrate a payment system (Stripe) outright, and have very nice web storefronts. Not sure if the charge rate is competitive though, at ~2.9% + 30c/transaction.
 
PlayfulPhoenix said:
... Squarespace comes to mind since they integrate a payment system (Stripe) outright, and have very nice web storefronts. Not sure if the charge rate is competitive though, at ~2.9% + 30c/transaction.
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Interesting, the net cost of refunds is 0 at Stripe. That means, if not enough people order an M1 for a new production run, then the only loss would be the prototype and the $20 for a Squarespace pro account. But, would they really allow someone to do several hundred refunds at once?
 
I think i'll finally shorten my cables this weekend. Hopefully everything goes well :p

Only thing is that I'll try my 100% best to make it perfect. Once the new 600 watt psu comes out it looks like i'll have to redo everything since that psu might be mounted flipped
 
Herstal said:
I'd do that, but the Impact has very limited options when it comes to powering PWM fans, Only CPU header has actual PWM control, and even then min setting is 60% - at least without using AI Suite, which i refuse to install. Speedfan doesn't work with the Impact either. Tbh, i don't care that much about load noise anyway, as I always game with closed headphones. It's more about the idle noise, not really a major issue anyway.
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The ASUS Impact has four PWM connectors. My ASUS Impact is powering and dynamically controlling three PWM fans and a PWM pump each on their own connectors and with their own PWM curves tied to temperature. As I write this my CPU temperature is 28C, my motherboard temp is 24C, my pump is running at 1330 RPM, my radiator fan is running at 518 RPM, and my other two fans are off. Each of my fans have their own controllable range determined by the characteristics of the fan itself. My pump's controllable range is 22%-100%, and my fans are in the range of 28%-100%. My machine is near silent. Fan Xpert 2 in AISuite will allow you to test your fans and automatically detect the minimum RPM and controllable range, as well as set your own temperature based rpm curves for each. Not sure why you refuse to install it.
 
adamantium said:
The ASUS Impact has four PWM connectors. My ASUS Impact is powering and dynamically controlling three PWM fans and a PWM pump each on their own connectors and with their own PWM curves tied to temperature. As I write this my CPU temperature is 28C, my motherboard temp is 24C, my pump is running at 1330 RPM, my radiator fan is running at 518 RPM, and my other two fans are off. Each of my fans have their own controllable range determined by the characteristics of the fan itself. My pump's controllable range is 22%-100%, and my fans are in the range of 28%-100%. My machine is near silent. Fan Xpert 2 in AISuite will allow you to test your fans and automatically detect the minimum RPM and controllable range, as well as set your own temperature based rpm curves for each. Not sure why you refuse to install it.
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That you fans/pump are running at particular RPMs, is not evidence that they are being PWM controlled. According to ROG forum support the board only has PWM control on the CPU header, the rest are voltage controlled.

You can use a needle to remove the blue wire+pin from the fan connector and see if you can still control the fan speeds without it.
 
Most people won't even know the difference between PWM- or voltage-controlled, they just want to regulate their fans based on a temperature. That most motherboards aren't true PWM-controlled on all their fan headers is more common than many think, but so irrelevant to the result that most don't even know it is that way.
 
adamantium said:
The ASUS Impact has four PWM connectors. My ASUS Impact is powering and dynamically controlling three PWM fans and a PWM pump each on their own connectors and with their own PWM curves tied to temperature. As I write this my CPU temperature is 28C, my motherboard temp is 24C, my pump is running at 1330 RPM, my radiator fan is running at 518 RPM, and my other two fans are off. Each of my fans have their own controllable range determined by the characteristics of the fan itself. My pump's controllable range is 22%-100%, and my fans are in the range of 28%-100%. My machine is near silent. Fan Xpert 2 in AISuite will allow you to test your fans and automatically detect the minimum RPM and controllable range, as well as set your own temperature based rpm curves for each. Not sure why you refuse to install it.
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They are 4 pin connectors but if you read the manual you'll realize that the fourth pin is just a steady 5V signal which just causes PWM fans to run at full speed. The fan control on the non-CPU headers are strictly voltage adjustments not PWM control. It's a bit deceptive on Asus's part.
 
Ok, now I can say it's REALLY quiet !! ;)

Few pages back thanks to Necere you could see my build with non-modular ATX PSU. It was nice setup, but I could still hear PSU vent from some distance.
So I look around what I can do about that... and went with this full modular quiet Queen from Corsair.
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Looks great Zizu32. Why did you go with such a high watt PSU? Why not something like the Seasonic fanless models?
 
Simple answer. 50% discount ;) And some other thing too. I like the look of this Corsiar better ;)
 
adamantium said:
The ASUS Impact has four PWM connectors. My ASUS Impact is powering and dynamically controlling three PWM fans and a PWM pump each on their own connectors and with their own PWM curves tied to temperature. As I write this my CPU temperature is 28C, my motherboard temp is 24C, my pump is running at 1330 RPM, my radiator fan is running at 518 RPM, and my other two fans are off. Each of my fans have their own controllable range determined by the characteristics of the fan itself. My pump's controllable range is 22%-100%, and my fans are in the range of 28%-100%. My machine is near silent. Fan Xpert 2 in AISuite will allow you to test your fans and automatically detect the minimum RPM and controllable range, as well as set your own temperature based rpm curves for each. Not sure why you refuse to install it.
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I'm with you on this one. I had read the same thing on my P8Z77-I deluxe motherboard about chassis fan headers not being PWM, but further inspection of the manual showed chassis the fan header was also PWM. The problem is earlier in the manual they show the PWM pin on chassis headers as +5V fixed. I have tested mine with PWM fans an they work. Looks like the same situation in the Impact user manual shows +5 in one place but later at page 3-45 (UEFI) on and on, all 3 chassis fans can be enabled for manual control doesn't mention PWM or voltage control but either way that makes the previous depiction incorrect. The CPU header on the Impact can be used in voltage control mode, no such option is shown for the chassis headers.

On my P8Z77-I I tried some non-PWM fans on the chassis headers and the fan control control had no effect, they just ran at a constant speed. This was using AI Suite fanXpert (tried Speedfan but that came with a lot of malishware crap). This absolutely requires getting into the UEFI to mess with settings.
 
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