NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

The question has been asked pretty much since the start of the project: "Since there's already three slots, why not just add another to make it microATX?"

It does not work that way.

To begin with, mATX is 244x244mm, while mini-ITX is 170x170mm. If you were just to add an extra slot and increase the height by 20mm, a mATX motherboard would not fit. In fact, it would extend into the space currently occupied by the power supply. In order for it to fit, you would need to increase the length of the case by 74mm - from the current 328mm, up to 402mm.

Secondly, mini-ITX is limited to 84W CPUs and a single GPU of up to around 300W. The current 450W power supplies are adequate for powering such a system. However, mATX opens up the possibility of using 150W CPUs and dual 300W GPUs. This is an effective doubling of power consumption, for which even a 600W SFX is insufficient. Therefore, in order not to limit the capability of the form factor, an ATX power supply should be the default option for mATX. This means a further size increase, to accomodate not only the larger dimensions of the power supply itself, but more and longer cables compared to SFX.

Thirdly, the airflow scheme in the M1 is inadequate for dealing with the extra heat produced by a second GPU and more power-hungry CPU. To provide sufficient cooling, the entire layout would need to be re-engineered, and in all likelihood would result in more or larger fans and an overall size increase.

I've thought about this a lot, and in my opinion, it's not possible to meet the cooling and power requirements of a high performance microATX system in a package significantly smaller than what Silverstone has achieved with the SG09/SG10. You can see what it took to achieve that: fans in nearly every available space, resulting in a vent-heavy design, which contributes to its homely appearance. And even at 23 liters (10L more than the M1), there's no space for anything more than a single 120mm radiator.

Supporting microATX has a lot of implications for the rest of the system, which, as you can see, go far beyond simply "adding another slot."
 
i guess this would open up a possible NCASE mATX :)
I was actually just addressing the question in general, since it seems like it gets brought up every few weeks. I think if I were to do an mATX case, it would probably be less focused on small size, and more on a good balance between capability and size. Honestly, I don't think I could design anything smaller, with decent capability, than what Silverstone has done with the SG09 and TJ08-E. I don't see much point in designing something that's little different to what's already available.
 
I mounted two SSDs up but the front cover wont fit with the supplied mounting brackets. I was thinking I'd just stack them together with electrical tape to fit. Anyone else make it fit without ghetto rigging it like i'm suggesting?
 
I mounted two SSDs up but the front cover wont fit with the supplied mounting brackets. I was thinking I'd just stack them together with electrical tape to fit. Anyone else make it fit without ghetto rigging it like i'm suggesting?
The SSDs have to be 7mm thick (most are these days) and they have to be facing eachother to fit behind the front panel. Also, you should put the screws in the non-countersunk side of the stacking bracket, otherwise they may hit the mounting screws inside the holes in the drive.
 
Anyone know what type of aluminum this case is made of? Thinking of getting it re-anodized.
 
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I was actually just addressing the question in general, since it seems like it gets brought up every few weeks. I think if I were to do an mATX case, it would probably be less focused on small size, and more on a good balance between capability and size. Honestly, I don't think I could design anything smaller, with decent capability, than what Silverstone has done with the SG09 and TJ08-E. I don't see much point in designing something that's little different to what's already available.

Going the other direction, would you consider something that requires a flexible PCIe extender? And maybe also a short video card?
 
Here is my parts list:

1 NCASE M1 Chassis
1 Silverstone ST45SF-G PSU
1 ASUS Maximus VI Impact Motherbaord
1 Intel Core i7-4770K Processor
2 G.Skill Trident X Series DDR3 2400 8GB Memory
2 Western Digital Se WD4000F9YZ Hard Drive
2 Samsung 840 Pro Solid State Disk
1 Swiftech MCP35X Pump
1 Koolance CPU-380i Water Block
1 Hardware Labs Black Ice GTX Gen Two Xtreme 120 Radiator
1 Adamantium/FrozenQ Ncase M1 Reservoir
10ft Primochill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT Tubing
3 Cougar Vortex Hydro-Dynamic Bearing 120mm Fan
1 UNDesigns Z2 Bracket
4 Koolance 90-Degree Rotary Barb 10mm Fitting
4 Monsoon Free Center Compression 3/8in x 5/8in Fitting
6 M4 x 5mm Truss/Pan/Flat Head Screw
4 M4 x 8mm Socket Head Cap Screw
1 6-32 Stainless Acorn Cap Nut
+ Paracord, wire, terminals, connectors, heat shrink, tools, etc.

Here are some images:

mv56.jpg

jhdp.jpg

ef3u.jpg

85lt.jpg

v0ue.jpg

50e1.jpg

ausk.jpg


I have concluded at this point that bare custom cables are the way to go. I did my 24 pin and 8 pin cables with paracord which you can barely see, but if I had to do it over again I would go red and black bare wires like I did with the sata power. You can't see much in a case this small and I would have saved a lot of time and some space without the paracord. But I know its in there :D

Here are some tips I learned along the way for this configuration:

The power cord has to be moved to the center position for this radiator to fit. In addition you need to replace the M4 screws from the HDD bracket on the radiator side with shorter screws. They need to be 5mm or less in length in order to allow the radiator to slide up to the HDD bracket. If the stock screws are used the HDD bracket and radiator will still fit, but there won't be room for two SSDs in the inside front mount. If you are like me you won't find these screws anywhere locally, but they are available all over the Internet. You may end up paying $15 dollars shipping though for $1 of screws. So you could grind down the stock screws or buy ugly ones like I did for now.

If you push the front fan fully to the front and the back fan fully to the back you get a nice gap between that is perfect for cable management around and between the fans. The USB and audio cables can go around and then between and up over any expansion card and back down into the USB header socket. Its nearly a perfect fit this way. The sata cables can also do the same.

For pump installation I had to make a pump brace to get the pump positioned in the correct location in the back right corner of the case over the front fan. This provides perfect clearance for the PSU and HDD cables and the top rotary on the pump. The second rotary provides the perfect clearance for the mini ITX GPU cards. With a little more planning I could have moved the pump forward about .25in and been able to support short GPU cards with longer covers. The pump could be moved about another inch toward the front if necessary with the proper brace. The pump has two screw holes in the bottom for mounting, but they are diagonal, and on the Z2 fan bracket, that puts the pump partially under the HDDs. The brace was simple as you can see in the image. Two tabs and two holes with some bends.

Connecting the tubing was the most difficult part of this assembly. I first connected everything I could without the side bracket installed. This was the rotary barbs on the CPU and pump and the fittings on the reservoir. You need to attach the tubing to the rotaries before screwing them in or you may put excessive stress on them. They are a little larger than 3/8in at 10mm and that makes for a great leak proof seal, but they don't go on easily. I connected the tubing from the pump to the CPU first and had to heat it in hot water and then train its shape first so that there was not any excessive pressure on the fittings. Then I connected the tubing for the pump intake to the pump and left it disconnected on the reservoir end. I then connected the tubing to the radiator fittings and measured the length I needed from the CPU output to the radiator input. The rotary for this piece cannot be tightened with a wrench unless it is a 90 degree angled wrench. I just hand tightened mine and it works well. I had to train this little section of tubing as well which was the most difficult. I also had to train the 270 degree curve from the radiator output to the reservoir input. It had to loop around in between the CPU block and the CPU fan and out the bottom to the reservoir. Once I had everything measured, cut, and trained, I positioned the side bracket with the HDDs and the radiator mounted without the fan. This gave me room for my hands to get in to connect the CPU output tub to the radiator. I then positioned the radiator output tub to the reservoir so that the side bracket could move into the correct position (upper mounting position). Upper position is required with this radiator since the lower position partially covers the reservoir hole. In order to use the top position for the side bracket with the HDD bracket installed, I had to cut a notch out for the side panel mounting clip that collides with the HDD bracket. I mentioned this a couple of weeks ago. Then I installed the CPU fan on the radiator using socket head cap screws on the inside tabs of the fan using an hex/allen key I cut short with my dremel so that it would fit between the mounting tabs of the fan and into the socket head of the screws. Finally I could connect the radiator output to the reservoir and the reservoir output to the pump, making sure that they provided the clearance I wanted for the expansions slots. I could then screw the side bracket onto the chassis.

As can be seen in the images, this configuration supports high profile memory even with the 54mm wide dual pass reservoir. The 380i water block is low profile and allows plenty of air to reach the fan. PSU gets plenty of cool air facing inward from the bottom fans.

Some of the pictures are rotated 90 degrees and I haven't had time to fill the loop with pearlescent Tharsis Red yet or overclock, but I am out of time.
 
The RVZ01 is around 14 liters. That's not "the other direction."

And to explain a bit further, I'd like to see something crazier than what is possible with a solid riser.
 
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Just wondering if anyone knew the answer to the following.

I'm using the asrock z87e-itx with the Noctua C12P SE14 cooler... would you get better temperatures going with: the 140mm cooler + 92mm side panel fan, or just two 120mm fans attached to the side panel? I'm considering purchasing 2 120mm Gentle Typhoons 1850 but am not sure whether it would serve as a better configuration in terms of cooling.

The 140mm config has the fan attached directly to the heatsink, while the 120mm fans on the side panel would leave about a 14mm gap I believe? Would this gap cause a lot of problems with cooling the heatsink properly? Any thoughts are appreciated, thanks!
 
I was actually just addressing the question in general, since it seems like it gets brought up every few weeks. I think if I were to do an mATX case, it would probably be less focused on small size, and more on a good balance between capability and size. Honestly, I don't think I could design anything smaller, with decent capability, than what Silverstone has done with the SG09 and TJ08-E. I don't see much point in designing something that's little different to what's already available.

I have a design that I have been working on that involved a matx but it does have flexible risers but does still stay within PCIe 3.0 specs. Here is a picture of it.

9xog.png
 
Nice. What's stopping you from having 2.5" drives the whole way down that bracket?
 
Has anyone attempted to use the EVGA Z87 Stinger Mobo?
Any potential clearance issues?

Looking at the images, I don't see much of anything that might conflict. Maybe the shield over the I/O area, but that's about it.

111-HW-E872-KR_XL_5.jpg

111-HW-E872-KR_XL_4.jpg

111-HW-E872-KR_XL_7.jpg
 
Anyone know if this blu ray slot loading external drive from Pioneer can be gutted to fit the NCASE M1?
Link

The dimensions are obviously larger than what the majority have been using like the panasonic UJ-265 due to the external housing. I'm just wondering if once gutted, the dimensions will work for the case. Not sure if there's a standardization for how slim slot loading ODD drives are made.
 
The question has been asked pretty much since the start of the project: "Since there's already three slots, why not just add another to make it microATX?"

It does not work that way.

You should DEFINITELY put that somewhere in the start post. I wouldn't want you to waste time on an mATX case because it's obvious it would not be as special as the M1. I'd love to see you take a shot at a Steambox case (flat desktop-type mITX with support for 11" GPU) if you'd ever want to go down the case designing road again.
 
Anyone know if this blu ray slot loading external drive from Pioneer can be gutted to fit the NCASE M1?
Link

The dimensions are obviously larger than what the majority have been using like the panasonic UJ-265 due to the external housing. I'm just wondering if once gutted, the dimensions will work for the case. Not sure if there's a standardization for how slim slot loading ODD drives are made.

Couldn't find any further info or teardowns on the BDR-XS05.. I'm guessing it's probably the same form-factor as all the other slot-loading drives, but there's no way to be certain without buying one and taking it apart to see. Not worth the risk in my opinion.

Any reason why you wouldn't just go for the UJ-265? Price seems to be the same, and actually cheaper most places, and the specs seem pretty close (both have BDXL support).
 
Sounds like a run of bad luck. Sorry to hear it.

Were you on the early shipping list? If you were, go ahead and send w360 an email requesting a shipping refund, along with your tracking numbers.

Done.

I feel ashamed as a total geek to do this but unfortunately being able to eat anything other than bread would be nice -.-
 
Anyone know if this blu ray slot loading external drive from Pioneer can be gutted to fit the NCASE M1?
Link

The dimensions are obviously larger than what the majority have been using like the panasonic UJ-265 due to the external housing. I'm just wondering if once gutted, the dimensions will work for the case. Not sure if there's a standardization for how slim slot loading ODD drives are made.

Silverstone has a Blu-Ray Internal slot load that should work.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=410&area=en
 
Hey AFD,

Not sure what the noise levels are like on the panasonic one, the Pioneer BDR-XS05 claims to have unique software that works only with it's drive as follows:

PowerRead3 can provide smoother movie playback when a disc has fingerprints or minor surface scratches. Auto Quiet mode intelligently adjusts the disc rotation speed to reduce noise (useful while watching movies or listening to music), and PureRead4 automatically adjusts the drive parameters to minimize sound glitches during music playback. Auto Quiet mode and PureRead can be configured as well as enabled and disabled with the Pioneer BDR-XS05 Drive Utility.

Just wanted to see what options there are. Thanks for the insight though. It's appreciated!
 
Silverstone has a Blu-Ray Internal slot load that should work.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=410&area=en

Hey AFD,

Not sure what the noise levels are like on the panasonic one, the Pioneer BDR-XS05 claims to have unique software that works only with it's drive as follows:

PowerRead3 can provide smoother movie playback when a disc has fingerprints or minor surface scratches. Auto Quiet mode intelligently adjusts the disc rotation speed to reduce noise (useful while watching movies or listening to music), and PureRead4 automatically adjusts the drive parameters to minimize sound glitches during music playback. Auto Quiet mode and PureRead can be configured as well as enabled and disabled with the Pioneer BDR-XS05 Drive Utility.

Just wanted to see what options there are. Thanks for the insight though. It's appreciated!

I'm actually getting ready to start transplanting my rig into the M1 and I'm using the Silverstone drive that Drerex menioned. I'll report back on noise if it is a problem.
 
Hi jtiger102, that would be great. Hope your transition to the M1 goes smoothly!

I forgot to mention, thank you so much Necere and Wahaha for designing, and bringing this case all the way from concept to reality. I absolutely love it despite being a relative newb compared to a lot of veterans on here.
 
I'm just starting to wonder if life itself hates me... I just checked my tracking.

I wouldn't worry about Taiwan Post's tracking website. I already got my case and the Taiwan Post tracking still shows the same thing as yours. Your best bet to understand the status is to check the Google Drive Doc and see if others already have their cases delivered to your country.
 
i finally bought a R9 290X Tri-X and have almost all my parts to start building my M1 (except for a keyboard which i'll buy very soon). :)

one question: my AIO liquid cooler has thermal paste already applied to it from factory. would you guys recommend that i just use the pre-applied paste or buy a better one?
 
guys with a small graphics like gtx670 from asus is it possible to install the corsair ax860 on the ncase m1?
 
guys with a small graphics like gtx670 from asus is it possible to install the corsair ax860 on the ncase m1?

Any of the "Mini" cards should work fine. They are designed to not extend past the motherboard.
For example, http://us.msi.com/product/vga/N760-2GD5-OC-ITX.html#overview

The original spec for the M1 states: ATX support via included bracket is limited to 140mm non-modular PSUs with cards longer than 200mm. So, as long as the card is shorter than 200mm, you should be fine with almost any ATX power supply.

Of course, you might have to worry about cable management a little more. In this case, modular would be your friend. :)
 
Any of the "Mini" cards should work fine. They are designed to not extend past the motherboard.
For example, http://us.msi.com/product/vga/N760-2GD5-OC-ITX.html#overview

The original spec for the M1 states: ATX support via included bracket is limited to 140mm non-modular PSUs with cards longer than 200mm. So, as long as the card is shorter than 200mm, you should be fine with almost any ATX power supply.

Of course, you might have to worry about cable management a little more. In this case, modular would be your friend. :)

thank you sir, since i saw a picture that the ax850 was not compatible, because of the away that the internal cable connects.. i had that doubt..
now i can maintain my ax860 and probably have on m1
thanks again
 
How does your video card do down there with the 120mm fans?

i'm assuming this question was directed at me (given that it was right under my post). i haven't yet received my video card. i'm not sure if i will put fans at the bottom of the case though; they might interfere with the intake airflow of the GPU fans.
 
thank you sir, since i saw a picture that the ax850 was not compatible, because of the away that the internal cable connects.. i had that doubt..
now i can maintain my ax860 and probably have on m1
thanks again

There is nothing about the general M1 spec that resolves the issue with Corsair's power plug being right up against the edge, and the direction of the M1's internal power extension. An ATX power supply has to be mounted width-wise, so there's no option to flip it around and let the cable go off into the interior of the case; the problem the other user had with the 850 seems like it applies equally to your 860 (from what I can see of it).

The other alternatives discussed for resolving the problem include trying to source an angled low-profile power extension/plug going in one of the 3 other possible directions from the default to mod the one that came with the M1, or to crack open the PSU and flip the connector over.
 
There is nothing about the general M1 spec that resolves the issue with Corsair's power plug being right up against the edge, and the direction of the M1's internal power extension. An ATX power supply has to be mounted width-wise, so there's no option to flip it around and let the cable go off into the interior of the case; the problem the other user had with the 850 seems like it applies equally to your 860 (from what I can see of it).

The other alternatives discussed for resolving the problem include trying to source an angled low-profile power extension/plug going in one of the 3 other possible directions from the default to mod the one that came with the M1, or to crack open the PSU and flip the connector over.

ok, thanks for your answer, Geoffrey4283
 
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