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NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)
- Thread starter wahaha360
- Start date
So have my build up and running. Hard to believe there is this much power in an itty bitty box lol. One question I did have was in regards to fans. Anyone know of good, quiet, 120x15mm fans? I want to bring in some more fresh air for the case but 25mm fans are a tad too thick for the bottom (blocks a portion of the 780 fan) or side bracket (with a Noctua NH-C12P SE14 installed). Only fan bringing in air to the case is the fan on my SE14 
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.Evangelion
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Does anyone have any recommendations for a cpu cooler that would fit this case? I'm currently running an i7 4770k on an Asus Rog Impact with the stock Intel cooler, and I would like to get a decent overclock on this thing. (Not something crazy, but a simple overclock)
Currently, I'm looking at the Noctua NH-L9i. I've been out of the CPU heatsink market for a while now.
Currently, I'm looking at the Noctua NH-L9i. I've been out of the CPU heatsink market for a while now.
Thank you...
Thanks ill just try out the H100i fans yer they have a higher RPM motor, I also have a pair of Cooler Master Excalibur fans they are really good fans but are to loud and i cant find a good review on them VS the SP fans.
It depends what works the best for you, You can have the side fans pushing air out that way its getting fresh air from the top of the case.
For air coolers, the best you can get is the NH-C14. You will have to sacrifice the bottom 140mm fan if you are using a Silverstone SFX PSU, and the top 140mm fan prevents both the hard drive cage and 120mm side fans from being installed. I'm using the NH-C14 on my ROG Impact but I'm not using either 140mm Noctua fans; I instead have two 120mm fans installed on the side bracket (along with a 92mm fan installed on the outside since the heatpipes prevent me from installed it on the inside).
If you need the hard drive cage, then you can go for the NH-C12P or the NH-U9B SE2. With the U9B, you will have to sacrifice putting a 120mm fan on the back end of the side bracket. You can also probably use other 92mm heatsinks like the Cooler Master Hyper N520, but I'm not sure if there would be any fitting problems caused by the audio card or the daughter board. The reason why I recommended Noctua coolers is because they have a compatibility list for all of their heatsinks.
You can also check out AIO water coolers. The 240mm rad H100i and the TD02 should fit, although you will have to sacrifice the HDD cage and fitting in the tubing seems to be a difficult, but not impossible, issue. Some people were able to install the H220. I had the cooler but was unable to get it to fit on the Impact. There are also 120mm rad coolers like the H60.
I wouldn't go with the H60 or any think like it just because of the size of the rad cant cool down the liquid very well so after awhile it will preform worse than say a good air cooler, Thats why i doing a custom loop now after testing out a H60, Also i don't like how the hoses are that crammed in there mine were pushing down on a few things.
Was anyone unable to use the motherboard screws? I was unable to use them and ended up using leftover motherboard screws that I had. When I looked at the threading, it seemed like the motherboard screws I had differed from the ones that came with the case.
I couldn't use 2 of my MB screws from my Asus P8Z77-I Deluxe, the two holding the DIGI+ VRM board on were coarse threads and the studs need fine threads. The second two screws that came w/ the board were fine threads, not sure why they put two different threaded screws in the with the board or why they didn't put more loose screws in the kit.
PWM fan question: I got 2 PWM fans for the bottom of the case. Was talking to a guy this morning at fry's electronics about getting a 4pin fan splitter. He told me that for PWM fans only one on the splitter would auto adjust while the other would run flat out full speed. Is this correct? He also said putting the fans straight to the PSU would also negate the PWM as it can only be controlled through the MB connections. Is this correct as well?
thanks
How do I identify the + and - sides of the Front Panel Power Switch connector, please? They aren't labeled. The HDD and LED Front Panel connectors are both labeled + and neg. I tried to identify using black and white cords/lines, but it is inconsistent. The white line was + on the HDD connector and neg on the LED connector.
This is only an issue because my build won't start/post, so I'm troubleshooting.
Thank you.
This is only an issue because my build won't start/post, so I'm troubleshooting.
Thank you.
Weird. I have the ROG Impact and the two screws on the VRM board were fine threaded and able to fit in the case. I didn't even get extra screws with the mobo.
You'll have to connect the four pin fan splitter to a motherboard's FOUR-PIN fan connection to use PWM. If you connect it to a PSU, it'll run at full speed all the time.
A PWM fan splitter that works as you said is also one that has four pins at the motherboard end, one four-pin end for the first fan and one four-pin end for the second fan but with the 3RD pin missing. If you buy a fan splitter without this configuration, it'll probably run at full speed.
He's wrong about the second fan running at full speed in this case. It'll run at the fractional speed of the first fan if both fans are of different max RPM. If they're the same fans, both will run at the same speed.
TL;DR: 3rd pin is some kind of RPM feedback to the motherboard to tell the motherboard the rpm speed of the fan. Based on this information, the motherboard adjust the output of the 4th pin (the PWM pin) and thus the fan speed accordingly. But it can only take in the rpm signal from one fan, thus only the first fan has the 3rd pin. Using the RPM information of the first fan, the motherboard change the speed of both fans through the 4th pin.
1911Shootist
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How do I identify the + and - sides of the Front Panel Power Switch connector, please? They aren't labeled. The HDD and LED Front Panel connectors are both labeled + and neg. I tried to identify using black and white cords/lines, but it is inconsistent. The white line was + on the HDD connector and neg on the LED connector.
This is only an issue because my build won't start/post, so I'm troubleshooting.
Thank you.
The switch is non-polar - it doesn't matter which way you connect it.
The LEDs are diodes, and therefore directional, so they have polarity.
The screws that come with the board with the nuts on the bottom aren't meant to be used there put there just to hold the PCB for display purposes, Use the screws that come with the case.
The case mobo screws (the ones with the hexagonal heads) don't thread into the case for me. The threading isn't fine enough.
This case isn't suppose to use motherboard stand-offs, correct? the stand-offs are part of the case.
^ This was the same issue I had as well. I also took two screws out of an older computer my brother is using as a network file/media server and tried them, same issue.
Still find it strange that if those two screws weren't supposed to be used that they didn't put four loose screws in with the mobo instead of just two.
@Andorski
From what I saw the mobo wouldn't line up correctly w/ the slots in back if we had to put extra stand-offs in it.
Evangelion
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Ah, ok. Thanks for the information! Yeah I'm currently using the hard drive cage and the Silverstone SFX power supply. I currently have 2 3.5 drives installed on the side, and an SSD installed on the bottom. I have an M2 SSD coming in the mail real soon, so I'm going to remove the SSD from the bottom and put 2 120mm fans for intake.
I think I'm going to take a look at the NH-C12P. I think that one might be better for me. Thanks again!
No the motherboard screws are round the hexagon ones are for the PSU, There the same screws I'm sure as what holds the side bracket on.
Thanks very much. I got everything working.. not sure what the problem was, perhaps one of the connectors wasn't fully seated. But!! it's working! Hurrah! I just have to finish installing the fans and I'm done
FreeGordonMan
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The M3's were the ones I used for the motherboard as well. Happy New Years everyone!
Ace of Six
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Is anyone else having "No Data" on the Taiwan tracking website?
AFD
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Red should be positive.
I just downloaded a Lian Li manual for their new PC-Q33, and it actually has a lot of helpful info on polarity for the case cables and which screws are for what..
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zuafke4rtl5bim9/PC-Q33-manual.zip
harsaphes
Supreme [H]ardness
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Just clicked on the above link and hit download, when I tried opening it my entire system froze wouldnt even let me hard reset. Finally back but everything is wonky.
AFD
2[H]4U
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Dunno, I always use No-Script, and didn't even have to temp allow to download? Got the Dropbox link directly from Lian Li's Q33 product page.
EDIT: Just went back and looked, and there's not much there behind the scenes.. just Dropbox & Cloudfront. Nope, allowed all, and no issues here.. think you're having an issue with something else.
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harsaphes
Supreme [H]ardness
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Yeah. Weird. Finally got a restart and running Malwarebytes just to see. Could be something just odd in my system at that moment.
Which model GTX770 are you using? Some GPUs dump heat into a case and the reference types push the heat out the back end. IIRC Necere said a reference type cooler is what works best in the M1.
I´m using non reference (non blower type).
Yes, I now it heats inside case, but I´m concern that even with my PSU outside de case the PSU heats a lot.
I´m using PNY GTX 770
It´s been a looooong time since I bought a dedicated GPU (since AGP).
My last one didn´t use extra power connectors so I think my PSU was always running on low usage.
Is it common to power supply case heat so much when in heavy load?
I´m using on 550w from coolermaster but it is not bronze/gold/etc certified
Edit:
I made a makeshift duct with paperboard to see if helps avoid getting heat air from PSU
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AFD
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You're right, it doesn't say. If it's the same as my Z87i-Deluxe, then Pin #1 on the speaker input is 5V+. It's the same orientation, top (pin 4) to bottom (pin 1) and says "speaker out", ground, ground, 5V+. Not 100% sure, but I'd imagine the red wire on the M1 speaker cable goes to 5V+ (pin 1) on the ASUS speaker header. Speakers should technically work even with reversed polarity, just sounds a little off.
Yeah, the ROG manual sucks. Download the Z87i-Deluxe PDF and just cross-reference between pin 1..
http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1150/Z87I-DELUXE/E8529_Z87I-Deluxe.pdf
EDIT: And here's the ROG Impact manual in PDF, if that makes it any easier..
http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1150/MAXIMUS-VI-IMPACT/E8469_Maximus_VI_Impact.pdf
Evangelion
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Do you guys know if the Noctua NH-C12P SE14 will fit on an Asus Rog Impact without having to remove the hard drive cage? I'm a bit worried that It might not fit because of the bigger fan.
Also, which one do you guys think is the better cooler, the Noctua NH-C12P SE14 or the Noctua NH-L12? I understand that if I want to go with the Noctua NH-L12 that I would have to remove the hard drive cage, correct?
Also, which one do you guys think is the better cooler, the Noctua NH-C12P SE14 or the Noctua NH-L12? I understand that if I want to go with the Noctua NH-L12 that I would have to remove the hard drive cage, correct?
It will fit. I'm running M1 with Impact and C12P SE14 with hdd cage...
Photos from earlier build (have to make new ones with GPU and 3.5" HDD's inside)...
http://tomasovic.eu/?1056
http://tomasovic.eu/?1057
I also have an impact and a 4770k and I think that the best cpu cooler you can get ( in terms of cooling performance ) that will still allow you to use the right side of the side bracket is the H80i with a single 25mm fan or with two fans, one 25mm fan and one 12mm fan.
Actually, I think the H80i is the best cooler you can buy for the M1. It's superior to all air coolers, even in terms of space occupied, and it's cooling performance is similar to the H100i without the drawback of using the right side of the side bracket.
The impact is probably the worst case cenario in terms of H80i compatibility because it has two elevated daughterboards. Still, the H80i fits perfectly without much effort ( only in one orientation for the radiator and water block, but one is enough
)Most of the reviews that I read comparing the H80i to the H100i showed the H100i having a small lead ( about 2-3 degrees ), but I also have seen two reviews where the H80i was actually better by the same 2-3 degrees, so they are not equal, but they are quite similar when it comes to cooling performance. I have tried the H80i with the two 25mm fans that are shipped with it, and with one of those 25mm fans and one 12mm fan from scythe, and the cooling performance is the same on the two scenarios. I measured temps of 77 degrees celcius when running prime95 with avx2 at 4.8GHZ with both sets, and I didn't see any degraded cooling performance when going from the 2x25mm to the 1x25mm +1x12mm fan setup.
If going with the H80i with two fans ( one 12mm ), the best way to fit them is putting the 12mm fan at the side bracket. The screws that come with the H80i and the M1 are not the right size for this, so they need to be sourced elsewere.
It will also work with the 25mm fan at the bracket but things get a bit tighter this way.
I have some photos of my setup here with the H80i and an Impact on the M1
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5irv3thtnad889p/upRTNVT_dQ
Some photos show a disassembled H80i. I actually used two of those, one was destroyed for testing/trials. I bought a new one and that is the one that is shown in the last photos. No need to mod or dissasemble the H80i to fit. It works out of the box with one 25mm fan or with two fans ( one 12mm another 25mm ).
The system is very silent when idle/browsing, the fans make almost no noise, but when testing stability with prime95 it sounds like a turbo airdryer.
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Any one have any new on the FrozenQ res? i emailed them twice got no reply and i still have to wait 3 weeks after its been sent to come though the mail.
On a side not to the above post the H80i really needs two fans to work correctly. Heres a review
On a side not to the above post the H80i really needs two fans to work correctly. Heres a review
Evangelion
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Awesome, thanks for the answers guys! I know I asked a similar question a couple pages back but I just wanted to make sure. I have an H100i, and I might just partition a 2tb drives into 2 seperate partitions and mount it on the bottom. If I decide to keep both the 1tb drive and the 2tb drive, then I'll pick up the C12P SE14.
Some last questions; What kind of performance can I expect to get out of the C12P SE4 with an i7 4770k? I'm not expecting something like custom/all in one watercooling temps, and I'm looking at doing just a basic overclock, nothing too extreme. Also, how is the C12P SE14 when it comes to noise? And will it help to cool the motherboard down a little? Thanks in advance!
Some last questions; What kind of performance can I expect to get out of the C12P SE4 with an i7 4770k? I'm not expecting something like custom/all in one watercooling temps, and I'm looking at doing just a basic overclock, nothing too extreme. Also, how is the C12P SE14 when it comes to noise? And will it help to cool the motherboard down a little? Thanks in advance!
Evangelion:
My tests with 4670K -> http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040447827
Note that my test was a bit extreme. In normal conditions the Cores are bellow 50°C in load... I'm running my SE14 fan with black reduction cable = 900 rpm max. At idle about 550 rpm... And it's pretty quiet. The loudest part of the computer is PSU's fan (going to mod the PSU, haven't time yet to do so)...
Don't have H80i but from what I've read the temperature difference is minor (about 5-6 degrees Celsius better) when you slow down the fans to equal noise level... If you don't care about noise AND plan to overclock to 4.4-4.5 and higher, I'd say H80i is very good option.
My tests with 4670K -> http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040447827
Note that my test was a bit extreme. In normal conditions the Cores are bellow 50°C in load... I'm running my SE14 fan with black reduction cable = 900 rpm max. At idle about 550 rpm... And it's pretty quiet. The loudest part of the computer is PSU's fan (going to mod the PSU, haven't time yet to do so)...
Don't have H80i but from what I've read the temperature difference is minor (about 5-6 degrees Celsius better) when you slow down the fans to equal noise level... If you don't care about noise AND plan to overclock to 4.4-4.5 and higher, I'd say H80i is very good option.