NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

What sort of cost difference are we talking here?

As this case has no window, I don't mind an unpainted interior, but that's me personally.
 
How much is the added cost for the laser cutting? Theres no reason to cheap out, I mean y'all were shooting for $200, if its slightly over it might cause a few people to not buy it but I'm sure you'd still hit 300 even if it was priced at say $225, maybe even $250. Honestly I wouldn't mind it being silver, but that would probably hamper sales a lot more than added cost.

That said, I am assuming this will push back the production campaign. I know there are a lot of anxious people, but the case needs to be done right.
 
I dont mind paying a little extra for laser cut exterior panels. How much extra are we talking per unit?
 
Zangmonkey said:
What sort of cost difference are we talking here?
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wreckem said:
How much is the added cost for the laser cutting?
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Screes said:
I dont mind paying a little extra for laser cut exterior panels. How much extra are we talking per unit?
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Paint's around $12-$14. Laser I'm not sure of exactly, but probably in the $15-$20 range. Keep in mind there are costs that scale as a percentage (e.g., IGG's cut), so every added cost increases the end cost by some percent more than the base increase.

Zangmonkey said:
As this case has no window, I don't mind an unpainted interior, but that's me personally.
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The silver parts would show through the vents on a black case though. Also the back would be bare silver.
 
I'm ok with a $225 - $250 sticker price shipped.

Just out of curiosity, would it make a significant price change to do steel for the interior, and only have aluminum for the top/sides/front panels? Just tossing out ideas.
 
wreckem said:
So how much would that make the case overall?
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With laser cut panels and interior paint: $200 before shipping, give or take. I believe we're looking at $25 US shipping, $65 international. I was really hoping to keep it under $200 w/shipping, for our domestic backers at least.

Screes said:
Just out of curiosity, would it make a significant price change to do steel for the interior, and only have aluminum for the top/sides/front panels? Just tossing out ideas.
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I don't know offhand. Not that big of a difference, I think. Some parts would need to be reworked as well, and I don't think we can afford to do that at this point.
 
Lets say you just go with the higher price. Could you start the production campaign now, or would you have to order another preproduction sample?
 
I think the laser cut panels and interior paint would be worth the added cost. Not having those would possibly even be a deal breaker. Around $200 before shipping is fine with me.

Can we have some pictures, to show the new laser-etched logo and the manufacturing flaws you mentioned (out of curiosity)?
 
Necere said:
Paint's around $12-$14. Laser I'm not sure of exactly, but probably in the $15-$20 range. Keep in mind there are costs that scale as a percentage (e.g., IGG's cut), so every added cost increases the end cost by some percent more than the base increase.

The silver parts would show through the vents on a black case though. Also the back would be bare silver.
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Lian Li keeps all their silver case interiors bare silver. I really don't think the interior black paint is worth it.

Laser makes sense.
 
Ditto on a preference for laser + interior paint. Better to do it right than have something that you're going to kick yourself about every time you see it ;)

Edit, that being said, I was planning on painting the interior something ridiculous like Audi "Solar Orange" :p (so if you have to pick one of the two major price increases, def. go with laser)
 
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If we have to choose, I too would prefer laser cut for better edges than interior paint.

Paint we can always do ourselves if we really wanted (Plastidip, anyone?), but it really isn't a big deal since there will be components covering it up, as well as side panels. If this were a case with acrylic sides, that would be a different story

Side note: http://youtu.be/b1R5F26n1Bo
^--Tour of Lian Li's factory.. you get to see how some of the manufacturing is done! A lot more hands-on in the manufacturing process than I expected
 
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I'm fine with unpainted interior, even for black exterior. As waha360 said Lian Li does it that way on all thier cases, and I own a lot of their cases and never had any problems with it like that.
 
Lack of paint on the inside isnt a deal breaker for me, but if i could choose i wouldn't mind spending an extra $20 to have it done.
 
My personal preference is silver exterior with unpainted interior and laser cut exterior edges.

With that said, would you consider offering the black exterior version with the painted interior for a surcharge?
 
vipz said:
My personal preference is silver exterior with unpainted interior and laser cut exterior edges.

With that said, would you consider offering the black exterior version with the painted interior for a surcharge?
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This is what w360 wants to do; one black/painted version and a cheaper silver/unpainted version.
 
Necere said:
This is what w360 wants to do; one black/painted version and a cheaper silver/unpainted version.
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That's a good idea!

Hey guys, I'm not sure if this is of any help to you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1R5F26n1Bo

At 8:57 you can see the NCT machine at Lian Li
At 11:14 you can see the aluminum NCT-cut cutouts being separated and filed down

Maybe the bad looking NCT result was due to a single prototype panel, not a sheet of prototype panels? Or the worker had a case of the Mondays?
 
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vipz said:
Agree about the NCT pics. That ODD slot - ouch.
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The slot isn't that bad - What you see there is the light catching the edge. The machine causes the edge to curve in somewhat. What's more noticeable in person are those periodic 'pinches' you can see most prominently around the I/O opening in those pictures. Actually, you can't really tell from the pic, but those are the most noticeable flaws along the slot as well.
 
Necere said:
This is what w360 wants to do; one black/painted version and a cheaper silver/unpainted version.
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I thought that the reason why black was going to be the only option was because having both black and silver options would cause the per unit price to be more expensive.
 
wreckem said:
I thought that the reason why black was going to be the only option was because having both black and silver options would cause the per unit price to be more expensive.
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We can split the production run, actually, without increasing cost. W360's other concern was that it would be more problematic to deal with defective units/parts if there are different models.
 
Necere said:
We can split the production run, actually, without increasing cost. W360's other concern was that it would be more problematic to deal with defective units/parts if there are different models.
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Wouldn't you just need a certain % of overage for each type? Or would one or the other be more defective prone?

If(a big unlikely if) there is a silver version I am assuming the front port panel would still be black?
 
If you can do color options at different price points, i think that would be best. A cheaper silver, unpainted interior option, a slightly more expensive black case with unpainted interior, and an option for black painted interior.
 
Necere said:
We can split the production run, actually, without increasing cost.
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To clarify, this is on the assumption we get 500 units.

If we had to split color at 300 units (300 is the minimum quantity), then it would likely affect the price.
 
wahaha360 said:
To clarify, this is on the assumption we get 500 units.

If we had to split color at 300 units (300 is the minimum quantity), then it would likely affect the price.
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How about a post-prototype pre-production run? Maybe ask folks to put down a deposit of $100-150 so you can gauge actually interest (money, meet mouth)

Then you can decide if it would be worth doing different color options, etc. Run the production campaign and have people pay the difference (final - deposit).

A little complex, but it's an option.
 
Necere said:
This is what w360 wants to do; one black/painted version and a cheaper silver/unpainted version.
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i think its a good idea. offer the barebones silver, and 'deluxe' all painted version for those that want it.
btw i'm wondering why even use igg site at all? you could probably just set up a site for your case and avoid the middleman.
 
Actually the silver one might go better with the silverstone tundra td02. Necere do you think the cooler would work, the dimensions look ok.
 
illli said:
i think its a good idea. offer the barebones silver, and 'deluxe' all painted version for those that want it.
btw i'm wondering why even use igg site at all? you could probably just set up a site for your case and avoid the middleman.
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I like this idea. One problem is that the money needs to be brokered in order to guarantee payment for manufacturing or to ensure refund if the minimum order isn't met. You may be able to find an escrow company to do this for less than the 4-9% that IGG wants, and then use your existing ncase website as the store. It's more trouble than I would want to deal with, but it is an option.

The laser logo looks great. I don't think you can go without laser cut panels.

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At this point given the cost have become 13-41% higher than the anticipated $160-$200, maybe we can consider the following (sorry its long):

1) Provide only the most popular option. This would eliminate the cost and uncertainty associated with splitting the production run and reduce the complexity for spare parts. This of course may cause some of the buyers of the less popular option to back out. What percentage this is we don't know.

-or-

2) Provide the proposed two options: silver/unpainted and black/painted, and prorate the costs of a split production run based on the unpopularity of the option. In other words expect more of the costs of a split production run to be paid by the less popular option. It doesn't make sense to offer a second option if the majority doesn't want it but still has to pay the majority of its cost. By inversely prorating the additional cost, buyers of both options will cover the cost of the split production run, but the majority will be protected from the additional costs to the degree it has a majority. This is important if the cost of splitting the production run is high. The less popular the option, the more of the cost it will bear, which is fair. As the popularity of both options approach 50%, the increased cost of both options becomes equal. The additional cost of painting the interior black could then be added to the black (or silver) option.

Example 1: If the cost of splitting the production run costs 5% more than a regular production run, and 30% want the silver/unpainted option and 70% want the black/painted option, then the silver option price would increase 70% x 5% = 3.5%, and the black option price would increase 30% x 5% = 1.5%.

Example 2: If the cost of splitting the production run costs 10% more than a regular production run, and 5% want the silver/unpainted option and 95% want the black/painted option, then the silver option price would increase 95% x 10% = 9.5%, and the black option price would increase 5% x 10% = 0.5%.

Here are the formulas for silver and black options as defined:
silver-unpainted-price = base-production-cost + ( ( 1 - ( silver-orders / total-orders ) ) x split-production-cost )
black-painted-price = base-production-cost + ( ( 1 - ( black-orders / total-orders ) ) x split-production-cost ) + interior-paint-cost

This approach requires knowledge (or at least a good estimate) of the number of orders for each option, as well as the additional cost of splitting the production run. I don't know how you could have an estimate of black and silver orders without some kind of survey or preordering, but you should know the exact cost of splitting the production run.

-or-

3) If you assume the silver option is less popular than the black option and that the cost of painting the interior is close to the difference in cost of an unpopular silver option over a popular black option as calculated above, then you could just decide that the silver without interior paint is equal in price to black with interior paint, and offer both options for the same price as originally intended. This is the simplest option.

I prefer approach 3 if there are enough silver and black orders to justify a split. It seems to be a good compromise and uses the painting cost savings on silver to help pay the cost of the split run. Otherwise I like approach 1.
 
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wahaha360 said:
Lian Li keeps all their silver case interiors bare silver. I really don't think the interior black paint is worth it.

Laser makes sense.
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I agree, unpainted interior is not an issue for me. I personally would prefer the black annodized exterior with the unpainted interior. My current Lian-Li V352B is also like that and I've never had an issue with the interior not being painted.

Necere, Wahaha360 are talking about two models apparently:
- a silver annodized exterior and unpainted interior
- a black annodized exterior and painted interior

I didn't know silver was really an option ? Not that I want it, I prefer a black one.
 
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Phuncz said:
I agree, unpainted interior is not an issue for me. I personally would prefer the black annodized exterior with the unpainted interior. My current Lian-Li V352B is also like that and I've never had an issue with the interior not being painted.

Necere, you are talking about two models apparently:
- a silver annodized exterior and unpainted interior
- a black annodized exterior and painted interior

I didn't know silver was really an option ? Not that I want it, I prefer a black one.
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He suggested one with black exterior with an unpainted interior, and another with interior and exterior painted black.
 
265 USD for international + import tax/duty would bring the case into a 300-320USD price range :(
 
88records said:
He suggested one with black exterior with an unpainted interior, and another with interior and exterior painted black.
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Ah ok, I see now Wahaha360 is the one that wants the silver/unpainted and black/painted.
 
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