NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

nando said:
I fall of the face of the Earth for 6 years, and you made this? Pretty cool! I actually would love a small case for the living room htpc - currently have a cheap/ugly full atx taking up a ton of space. The kids have hammered on it too, the door broke off years ago and the power switch is disconnected so they cant turn it off. lol

Ill stay in touch!

Also, im pretty shocked my account is still active, and that i remembered the password..
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Lol... what's up man? It's been a while. Good to hear from you.

If anyone's curious, nando's a guy I know in real life, and back in the early 2000s we were playing a lot of Quake 3 and Counterstrike, and he was into watercooling/modding and generally being [H]ard on his PC. He was also designing his own portable case in CAD for taking to LAN parties, which is pretty much what got me started with it. So in a roundabout way, we have him to thank for this project. He married a Canadian girl and moved up north though, and we've been out of touch for a few years.
 
You're going to allow time for reviews and photo op before the production campaign, right?

I think that will raise awareness and give people a great look at the case. That will make sure we get the requisite number of orders for production.
 
Zangmonkey said:
You're going to allow time for reviews and photo op before the production campaign, right?

I think that will raise awareness and give people a great look at the case. That will make sure we get the requisite number of orders for production.
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Reviews would take weeks longer. I don't think many people would be happy with that.

I'm not too worried we'll hit our goal for production; we need a minimum of 300, and we had 800-900 responses to the shipping poll. Not all those will buy, of course, but I don't think we'll have a problem meeting the minimum.
 
Necere said:
Lol... what's up man? It's been a while. Good to hear from you.

If anyone's curious, nando's a guy I know in real life, and back in the early 2000s we were playing a lot of Quake 3 and Counterstrike, and he was into watercooling/modding and generally being [H]ard on his PC. He was also designing his own portable case in CAD for taking to LAN parties, which is pretty much what got me started with it. So in a roundabout way, we have him to thank for this project. He married a Canadian girl and moved up north though, and we've been out of touch for a few years.
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heh, I forgot about that.. I never ended up building it. That was after I got sick of lugging around that gigantic Lian Li server case with double power supplies and peltier cooling. I did put Rhinoceros3D on my resume when I applied for my current job though. Now I do big industrial CAD stuff.. but nothing that's pretty to look at unfortunately. :|

these days I have a used laptop that I picked up for $300 (it's actually pretty sweet for my purposes) and I use my smartphone for everything else. the HTPC is for watching movies mostly..

I'm sort of way out of the loop, but will these be available for any sort of purchase outside of the original campaign? I saw on the fundraising site that there were 300 slots and they were all sold out.. maybe I can teach my son how to build a PC. :p
 
Necere said:
Reviews would take weeks longer. I don't think many people would be happy with that.

I'm not too worried we'll hit our goal for production; we need a minimum of 300, and we had 800-900 responses to the shipping poll. Not all those will buy, of course, but I don't think we'll have a problem meeting the minimum.
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well, you wrote that at the same time I was making my post.. so I guess that answers my question!
 
nando said:
well, you wrote that at the same time I was making my post.. so I guess that answers my question!
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Yup, the production campaign will be open to everyone, so no worries there. You can get on the list to be notified for the production campaign by signing up on IGG and 'following' the project. Hope your son is up for a challenge!
 
Necere said:
Reviews would take weeks longer. I don't think many people would be happy with that.

I'm not too worried we'll hit our goal for production; we need a minimum of 300, and we had 800-900 responses to the shipping poll. Not all those will buy, of course, but I don't think we'll have a problem meeting the minimum.
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:(

So that means you're asking people to buy an expensive case without any reviews....
 
nando said:
... I got sick of lugging around that gigantic Lian Li server case with double power supplies and peltier cooling.
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Btw, wasn't it a Yeong Yang cube?

Phuncz said:
So Necere, be honest: are you giddy like a school girl or nervous like mad ?
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Tbh, I'll be glad when the production campaign goes up and I can stop worrying about it. Then w360 can worry about shipping :p

Zangmonkey said:
:(

So that means you're asking people to buy an expensive case without any reviews....
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Well, would you prefer to wait another month+ for the campaign? It'll take at least that long to get the preproduction sample to a website and have them publish a review.
 
It's going to be produced by Lian Li right? If so then I am not to worried about the quality of the case since I have owned them before and they are all excellently manufactured. As for the layouts I have seen enough to decide that it will work for what I intend. And their is nearly 4000 replies on this thread, and thousands more out their on the various forums/news sites. I think their is plenty of info out their for people to decide with.
 
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if you have been following this topic since the beginning, or at least reading some of it, why the hell would you need some 3rd party reviews to make up your mind?

edit: the person above said it better ^
 
Zangmonkey said:
:(

So that means you're asking people to buy an expensive case without any reviews....
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I think a lot of people will be buying this case based on a mix of it being a great design and supporting a fellow enthusiast and community project. Reviews be damned, I know a lot of people will buy it regardless.
 
Zangmonkey said:
:(

So that means you're asking people to buy an expensive case without any reviews....
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You obviously haven't followed this thread or even carefully read the start post, because Necere has been more detailed about many aspects and design choices that no reviewer can ever match. We are here bouncing off various ideas and questions with the DESIGNER of the case, how can a review matter at all ?


Necere said:
Tbh, I'll be glad when the production campaign goes up and I can stop worrying about it. Then w360 can worry about shipping :p
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Yeah I can believe you are in such a place. But the rewards will follow soon, after if all goes well. I doubt you'll have much trouble after release, except with some people too stupid to have read your instructions and advice on compatible hardware. But you'll always have those...

Necere said:
Well, would you prefer to wait another month+ for the campaign? It'll take at least that long to get the preproduction sample to a website and have them publish a review.
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I think you're overly optimistic on that aspect. I doubt you'd get more than 2 reviews out of a month, if that even gets done. Maybe some small websites but larger ones have unplanned/unannounced stuff on the backburner until some times frees up. I'm glad you don't waste everyone's time with reviews, as those will only serve people not following this thread at all.
 
Phuncz said:
I'm glad you don't waste everyone's time with reviews, as those will only serve people not following this thread at all.
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Agreed.

And honestly, reviews are outside the scope of this project. Necere, if I'm correct there will only be 1, maybe 2 production runs of this case? Since continued production is not the objective then reviews would be a wasted effort and be an unnecessary delay.

And I don't know of many crowd-funded projects that contributors are able to wait for reviews before contributing. That's kind of putting the cart before the ox. :rolleyes:
 
Necere said:
Well, would you prefer to wait another month+ for the campaign? It'll take at least that long to get the preproduction sample to a website and have them publish a review.
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That wouldn't bother me personally, because I'm still waiting on component availability for my build.

CMadki4 said:
I think a lot of people will be buying this case based on a mix of it being a great design and supporting a fellow enthusiast and community project. Reviews be damned, I know a lot of people will buy it regardless.
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I'm going to be buying it regardless. I contributed to the fundraising campaign. But I feel that reviews are essential in the community to get the word out. What's going to happen is that a review will be done, but by then nobody reading it will be able to buy a case!

Phuncz said:
You obviously haven't followed this thread or even carefully read the start post, because Necere has been more detailed about many aspects and design choices that no reviewer can ever match. We are here bouncing off various ideas and questions with the DESIGNER of the case, how can a review matter at all ?
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I've been following the thread for a long time, reading and contributing for a long time, including contributing the prototype funding campaign.

I, personally, have no reservations about buying the case. I feel that it would be useful to have reviews for great photos, great gear trials and to get the word out. This is an exciting project and it's community driven.... There are members of the community who will read about it for the first time in a review.... but by then they likely won't be able to purchase a case...
 
I mean, I get that there's value in having an independent, "professional" review done, particularly if the reviewer uses more rigorous testing methodology. I tried to at fulfill at least some of that need by posting my own tests here, and trying to be as up-front as possible about any issues I ran into. In some respects, my tests might be more valuable than you might get from an independent site, since I chose hardware specifically to test the limitations of the case. Most reviews that I've read on SFF cases typically use more modest hardware loadouts than I was using, which shouldn't provide any real problem for the case.

If it's any consolation, the final testing configuration (watercooled CPU/GPU with the H220) is what I left it in, and I had that running 24/7 mining litecoins for ~3 weeks (with OC'd RAM on the 7970), as sort of long-term stress test, and it performed flawlessly (and reasonably quiet, even).
 
I rarely come across a good case review that has a few or more of the following:
- uses hardware relevant to test it
- does thorough testing on noise and temp (not just CPU/GPU)
- has good pictures
- doesn't stop assembling when one component doesn't fit
- gets what the case is about

We've had all of those things from Necere already. I get that it might be "honest" to let everyone reading that review site (or two) know about the case, but honestly I think it will cause more problems than it solves. It will cause more people not knowing the limitations of the case to buy it and complain that their out-of-spec hardware doesn't fit.

Also, this is crowd-sourced, not Lian-Li trying to get their next mainstream case out. It wouldn't be the first time people arrived too late, as this topic has also proven it also won't be the first time people arrive too soon.
 
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6916/Small%20(3%20of%2013).jpg[/

Will the CM Seidon 240M fit? I got it off Newegg for $61 after the Google Wallet promo + MIR.

It's smaller than the H220.. would it be a safe assumption?

I'll probably end up swapping out the stock CM fans for some Enermax's or GT's
 
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werzinator said:
Will the CM Seidon 240M fit? I got it off Newegg for $61 after the Google Wallet promo + MIR.

It's smaller than the H220.. would it be a safe assumption?
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I can all but guarantee it will fit. With all liquid coolers it's just a matter of getting the tubing oriented in a way that works, which isn't quite as straightforward when you have the rad sitting over the motherboard as in the M1. It's not difficult, you just have to experiment with how to bend the tubing so it fits in the case before actually installing the block on the CPU.

That reminds me - I saw someone's planned build elsewhere that included a Corsair H110. Pay attention, folks! The H110 is a 280mm rad - it's not going to fit in the M1. 240mm rads only, so go with the H100i instead if you're looking at a Corsair unit.
 
I'm so pumped for this and the ROG impact releases! I got tired of waiting and moved my Ivy system over to HTPC duty and am temporarily using the old HTPC (4850e) as a desktop. It's so bloody awful :(
 
Dephcon said:
So my local retailer might already have stock? Hmm...
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An Asus ROG employee posted on the ROG board and said the Impact would start shipping to retailers in "mid to late" July. Its doubtful anyone has any stock yet. More than likely there will be reviews prior to it hitting retail shelves.
 
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Any chance you can run a temp test using a standard H60i cpu cooler but with a non-blower style GPU.. like one with two fans?
 
Reviews are nice and good but I been reading and supporting this thread since day one. Inside this thread there is more info and details offered up not to mention pictures and testing than any reviewer will ever do. I'm ready to buy now. Just my opinion.

We also need to remember that this case is a niche market product and not going to be a good fit for everyone. It will be a hit I'm thinking but only for the niche market its made for. Many SFF buyers wont want it but for some it's what they want.
 
I agree, this case would cause a lot of issues when released without people knowing what is and isn't possible, when "stupid" products like the Bitfenix Prodigy exist. I don't think it's a bad case in general, it's just a much larger case than need be and people will be stumped when they find out their out-of-spec hardware doesn't fit in most other ITX cases.

Many people don't know what they are getting into with ITX, this isn't a case for everybody but for the enthusiasts who are experienced. I had a Shuttle SG33G5 as my first small case and I learned a lot from it. Thankfully the cooler and motherboard were already supplied with the case, so I didn't need to worry about those. My biggest problem was a GPU that fit and remained within temperature limits.

I learned a lot from it and how to improve it, but if I went from the usual full-towers I bought to the ITX cases now, I would probably have failed because of the lack of experience.
 
Phuncz said:
I agree, this case would cause a lot of issues when released without people knowing what is and isn't possible, when "stupid" products like the Bitfenix Prodigy exist. I don't think it's a bad case in general, it's just a much larger case than need be and people will be stumped when they find out their out-of-spec hardware doesn't fit in most other ITX cases.

Many people don't know what they are getting into with ITX, this isn't a case for everybody but for the enthusiasts who are experienced. I had a Shuttle SG33G5 as my first small case and I learned a lot from it. Thankfully the cooler and motherboard were already supplied with the case, so I didn't need to worry about those. My biggest problem was a GPU that fit and remained within temperature limits.

I learned a lot from it and how to improve it, but if I went from the usual full-towers I bought to the ITX cases now, I would probably have failed because of the lack of experience.
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Well, this is the first ITX build I've ever considered. Been downsizing every time I built a new machine (CM Storm Scout ATX --> NZXT Vulcan mATX --> NCase ITX)

Some of us have to start from somewhere ;)
 
Guys does ST45SF-G 450W psu have enough power to support the following or should I find a better ATX psu?

i7-4770k
GTX 780
Asus Impact
 
Please don't wait for reviews before launching; reviews are pointless in this case (heh). I'll buy atleast one (probably two, one for my gf) without hesitation, no matter the price.
 
Necere said:
I can all but guarantee it will fit. With all liquid coolers it's just a matter of getting the tubing oriented in a way that works, which isn't quite as straightforward when you have the rad sitting over the motherboard as in the M1. It's not difficult, you just have to experiment with how to bend the tubing so it fits in the case before actually installing the block on the CPU.
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So would this be advisable?

1. Bend tubing in an orientation to fit
2. Mount fans+radiator to 2x 120mm side panel
3. Install block/pump
4. Connect side panel to case
 
Necere said:
Well, would you prefer to wait another month+ for the campaign? It'll take at least that long to get the preproduction sample to a website and have them publish a review.
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Could you do the two concurrently? Send the pre production sample out for review while the campaign is going? Might pull in some additional orders before it ends if you can get a reviewer to fast track it.

Or maybe send review samples out after its over to see if you can get enough interest to do another group buy going.
 
if they only have 1 to send out then it would take a while to circulate to other review sites. but on the other hand, what would be the point in reviewing one if people read it and discovered they could not buy one? so if reviews come out a month + down the road.. well i guess it depends on how long you could set the funding campaign to expire. could it be longer than 30 days?
 
illli said:
if they only have 1 to send out then it would take a while to circulate to other review sites. but on the other hand, what would be the point in reviewing one if people read it and discovered they could not buy one? so if reviews come out a month + down the road.. well i guess it depends on how long you could set the funding campaign to expire. could it be longer than 30 days?
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Who says there can be only 1 production campaign? Once the reviews come out, if there's enough interest, do a second run.
 
Another one for the ignore list. The amount of ignorance is growing to epic proportions...
I wish people would read the arguments already made many times and think for a minute before posting.
 
Screes said:
Could you do the two concurrently? Send the pre production sample out for review while the campaign is going? Might pull in some additional orders before it ends if you can get a reviewer to fast track it.

Or maybe send review samples out after its over to see if you can get enough interest to do another group buy going.
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The preproduction sample has some issues, unfortunately. I couldn't in good conscience okay this as the final version - the quality just isn't up to par. That being the case, it wouldn't make sense to send it for review.


If you're wondering about what these issues are:
  • We were given a quote that would push us out of our target range, so in order to try to keep the cost down, LL used 100% NCT to cut the parts, rather than a mix of NCT and laser (as they'd done with the first prototype). The end result is that the edges don't look so hot. We're kind of trying to figure out what to do about it. I think we'll pretty much have to laser cut the exterior panels, but that's going to increase the cost. One option would be to leave the interior unpainted, which would save us a bit. That would only really work on a silver version of the case though.
  • One of the side panels has some slight warping, undoubtedly due to the high quantity of punched holes. It's not super obvious, but it does cause it to bow out a bit towards the front and back. So they might have to do QC on every panel. Or just press all of them to make sure.
Those are the major challenges we have right now. There were some other more minor issues, but those are easy to solve.

This stuff is never as straightforward as one might like :p
 
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