NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

[b21]

I came up with the question, because I finished my first Ncase M1 build. It's great, but the bottom fans get a bit loud when they reach >800 RPM. Think, there is some room for optimizations.

Spoiler: Pictures

System Spec:

• AMD Ryzen 2700X
• Asus ROG Strix X470-I
  
• 32GB TridentZ RGB
• Samsung 960 Pro - 512GB
• EVGA RTX 2080 XC Gaming
• Corsair SF600 v1
• Noctua C14S with 140mm fan
• 2x Noctua NF-A12

 

[Engr62]

Necere, I hope you can answer this question. I picked up a used laptop blu ray drive to put in my NCASE M1 V4. It didn't come with any mounting screws. Do you know what size screws (see photo with screw hole circled) I should use to mount this in the NCASE M1? And maybe where I can get these?

Thanks!

 

[Nobu]

Necere, I hope you can answer this question. I picked up a used laptop blu ray drive to put in my NCASE M1 V4. It didn't come with any mounting screws. Do you know what size screws (see photo with screw hole circled) I should use to mount this in the NCASE M1? And maybe where I can get these?

Thanks!

View attachment 154874 View attachment 154876

I'm sure you could get them from digikey, or a local hardware store (not big box, unless you want to cut the screws to length). Size, im not sure. Maybe M2, not too long.

 

[Deleted member 300218]

I came up with the question, because I finished my first Ncase M1 build. It's great, but the bottom fans get a bit loud when they reach >800 RPM. Think, there is some room for optimizations.

Spoiler: Pictures

System Spec:

• AMD Ryzen 2700X
• Asus ROG Strix X470-I
  
• 32GB TridentZ RGB
• Samsung 960 Pro - 512GB
• EVGA RTX 2080 XC Gaming
• Corsair SF600 v1
• Noctua C14S with 140mm fan
• 2x Noctua NF-A12

View attachment 154278

Remove the shroud. GPU fan + bottom fans is just a redundant addition of more fans, when you can get about same cooling temperatures without the GPU fans (by far the loudest part) present. Also, try the bottom Noctua fans as both outtake and intake to see which yields best result. For me, outtake was the best.

 

[Necere]

Necere, I hope you can answer this question. I picked up a used laptop blu ray drive to put in my NCASE M1 V4. It didn't come with any mounting screws. Do you know what size screws (see photo with screw hole circled) I should use to mount this in the NCASE M1? And maybe where I can get these?

Thanks!

View attachment 154874 View attachment 154876

M2 screws, and you should've gotten a few with the case in the bag with the rest of the screws.

I hate to tell you this though - that drive isn't compatible with the bracket. Slim optical drives come in two sizes (generally): 9.5mm and 12.7mm thick, and the bracket only supports the 12.7mm variety, as stated on the M1 product page on SFFLab. It's no consolation, but I've completely redesigned the bracket for V6 to support both sizes going forward.

 

[Engr62]

I'm sure you could get them from digikey, or a local hardware store (not big box, unless you want to cut the screws to length). Size, im not sure. Maybe M2, not too long.

M2 screws, and you should've gotten a few with the case in the bag with the rest of the screws.

I hate to tell you this though - that drive isn't compatible with the bracket. Slim optical drives come in two sizes (generally): 9.5mm and 12.7mm thick, and the bracket only supports the 12.7mm variety, as stated on the M1 product page on SFFLab. It's no consolation, but I've completely redesigned the bracket for V6 to support both sizes going forward.

Thanks for the replies. That's too bad about the 9.5mm size not working (although the holes seem to line up with the bracket). I tested it out with a couple of thin paper clips bent to stick into the holes and it seemed to be OK. However, the drive would only rip at 2.1x speed (verses my external ASUS drive that does so at 6.5x). I'd probably be better off putting a 4 Tb 2.5" (15mm thick) drive in the front (if it fits) to boost my storage to 10 Tb anyway.

 

[rfarmer]

Thanks for the replies. That's too bad about the 9.5mm size not working (although the holes seem to line up with the bracket). I tested it out with a couple of thin paper clips bent to stick into the holes and it seemed to be OK. However, the drive would only rip at 2.1x speed (verses my external ASUS drive that does so at 6.5x). I'd probably be better off putting a 4 Tb 2.5" (15mm thick) drive in the front (if it fits) to boost my storage to 10 Tb anyway.

It will fit, I had a 7mm SSD plus a 9.5mm HDD mounted in the front of mine.

 

[Rhialto]

Ok now we know there is a V6 coming...

 

[rfarmer]

Ok now we know there is a V6 coming...

Check out this post on SFF, Necere talks about all the planned changes.

 

[MichtoK2]

hello, come back to M1 after a long time

- Aorus z390i (https://www.aorus.com/Z390-I-AORUS-PRO-WIFI-rev-10=)
- 9700k @ 5.00GhZ/1.35V+ Noctua NH-L12S (https://noctua.at/fr/nh-l12s)
- 2080 ti inno3d ichill black (Rad 240mm) @1.00V/2130MHz (http://www.inno3d.com/products_detail.php?refid=386)
- PSU Corsair SF750 (https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ...pply-Units-Advanced/SF-Series/p/CP-9020186-NA)

Very quiet, incredible when you see power dissipated
GPU <60°C nearly silent
CPU @ 5GHz <85°C (bench)
CPU Stock <70°C (bench)
CPU Stock <60°C (in heavy demanding games)

Direct exhaust of GPU hot air, everything stay cool inside
CPU hoit air push by slim 120 trough rad then sucked by GPU rad

bad pictures sorry

such a great case

 

[Bawjaws]

I'd probably be better off putting a 4 Tb 2.5" (15mm thick) drive in the front (if it fits) to boost my storage to 10 Tb anyway.

It should fit. I have two 2.5" SSDs stacked on the front of my M1, at a combined depth of 14mm, and they fit with a tiny bit of room to spare (but only about 1mm). Necere is the best person to ask for a definitive answer, though.

 

[Bawjaws]

hello, come back to M1 after a long time

- Aorus z390i (https://www.aorus.com/Z390-I-AORUS-PRO-WIFI-rev-10=)
- 9700k @ 5.00GhZ/1.35V+ Noctua NH-L12S (https://noctua.at/fr/nh-l12s)
- 2080 ti inno3d ichill black (Rad 240mm) @1.00V/2130MHz (http://www.inno3d.com/products_detail.php?refid=386)
- PSU Corsair SF750 (https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ...pply-Units-Advanced/SF-Series/p/CP-9020186-NA)

Very quiet, incredible when you see power dissipated
GPU <60°C nearly silent
CPU @ 5GHz <85°C (bench)
CPU Stock <70°C (bench)
CPU Stock <60°C (in heavy demanding games)

Direct exhaust of GPU hot air, everything stay cool inside
CPU hoit air push by slim 120 trough rad then sucked by GPU rad

bad pictures sorry

such a great case

Do those fans on the case floor actually do anything, given that your GPU has a block and radiator? Are the case floor fans intakes or exhausts?

 

[MichtoK2]

Do those fans on the case floor actually do anything, given that your GPU has a block and radiator? Are the case floor fans intakes or exhausts?

They are intakes.
Yes they help air circulation in the case, as they are wider than the GPU, I've got better temps when activated, you can feel the air flow even if they are close to the GPU. I do not make them spining very fast (max 1200), else they get noisy because of restriction.
But No they do not "directly" cool the GPU, they only help circulation from the bottom to the rad. This card has a kind of waterblock all over the PCB so direct air on it do nothing for sure.

 

[Bawjaws]

They are intakes.
Yes they help air circulation in the case, as they are wider than the GPU, I've got better temps when activated, you can feel the air flow even if they are close to the GPU. I do not make them spining very fast (max 1200), else they get noisy because of restriction.
But No they do not "directly" cool the GPU, they only help circulation from the bottom to the rad. This card has a kind of waterblock all over the PCB so direct air on it do nothing for sure.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense - and it did occur to me just after I posted! It's definitely good to have some airflow into the case.

 

[Bawjaws]

Quick question for you all, if I may. I've been reading this thread for years and have seen most configurations under the sun at some point, but at the same time I'm not quite sure what to do regarding a potential upgrade I have in mind, so any advice would be gratefully received

I'm looking to upgrade my GPU, and I have my eye on an EVGA 2070 XC which is a 2-fan card that's the standard 2-slot width and under 11 inches long. I'm currently running a 6700K with a U9S, with a second 92mm Noctua fan on the rear of the case (as an exhaust) and a 120mm Noctua on the side panel (as an intake). I'm contemplating adding one or maybe two 120mm fans to the case floor to aid with GPU cooling, but can't decide whether it's better to go for standard 25mm thick fans here or to go for slim 15mm fans instead. My reasoning for the slim fans is so that there's a bit of a gap for air circulation rather than the fans being super tight to the GPU. My current GPU is a 660Ti which is also two slots thick, but a blower, and I didn't find adding a 25mm thick fan to the case floor did much of anything for temperatures, but that might just be because it's a blower rather than an open cooler.

Any thoughts as to whether slim fans are a better option than standard thickness ones? Low noise is a big priority for me so I'm concerned about turbulence with either option. I'm also undecided as to whether the fans should be intakes or exhausts, or whether I should reverse the existing fans so that air is drawn in the back of the case and then exhausted out of the side. That's easy enough to play around with, but I'd rather not have to buy two sets of fans for the case floor if I make the wrong choice initially!

Cheers!

 

[MichtoK2]

For sure, fans on the floor must be intake, never opposite to GPU fans of the 2070XC.
I would go for standard 25mm, no problem they are near the GPU, it will push air through the GPU and help GPU fans.
Slim fans only if your GPU is > 2 slots
Bigger fan = higher static pressure = more flow for lower speeds = lower noise, pretty sure

 

[b21]

I have the 2080XC in the Case and can say the NF-A12 working fine. I have only a bit "noise" when I torture the graphics card over a long time. Then the EVGA fans are spinning up to 1600 rpm and they are loud.

Overall, you will need fans underneath it, because of the airflow through the case. Else you will reuse the hot air from the card.

 

[b21]

An other question, will someone test the new Asetek as in-take on the backside of the case? With the TG side panel I would expect it to be better than the U9S.
https://www.asetek.com/newsroom/press-releases/2019/asetek-introduces-645lt/

 

[Bawjaws]

Does anyone have any suggestions for taller case feet? I'm thinking that I need a bit more clearance under the case to help with airflow, but I can't seem to find suitable replacement feet. I know the Lian Li SD-04B feet are a popular choice, but they don't seem to be available in the UK at present. I've seen people using hifi feet but these all seem to take an M4 screw and I'm fairly sure the standard NCase feet are secure with an M3 (and I don't fancy expanding the existing holes).

 

[b21]

OptimumTech offered one solution. Maybe it helps.
https://optimumtechmedia.wixsite.com/optimummods/product-page/ncase-m1-element-feet

 

[Bawjaws]

Cheers for the link, but I'm looking for a supplier in the UK. Mnpctech do some nice feet for the M1, for example, but shipping from the US to the UK makes it not worthwhile.

 

[b21]

Cheers for the link, but I'm looking for a supplier in the UK. Mnpctech do some nice feet for the M1, for example, but shipping from the US to the UK makes it not worthwhile.

I can't find it again, but somewhere he wrote that the 3D-Model of the feets are available. It's the option to let it print for yourself.

 

[Chapeau]

Cheers for the link, but I'm looking for a supplier in the UK. Mnpctech do some nice feet for the M1, for example, but shipping from the US to the UK makes it not worthwhile.

M3 screws of many lengths can be bought from hobby supply shops. Usually in aluminium which is very easy to shorten if required.

These guys based in your neck of the woods would be great.

 

[Bawjaws]

Thanks Chapeau . I've bought some of these acoustic-dampening soft rubber feet as an experiment, which seem to be effective in quietening down my desk a bit. They also raise the M1 nearly 1cm further off the desk (I've stuck them to the existing feet). I'm not convinced that they'll stick brilliantly but we'll see for now.

I've also decided to hang fire on adding any fans to the case floor as my 2070 seems to be running pretty cool as is: it's not gone above 77°C under load and even then the fans haven't been at more than about two-thirds speed. I'm sure that adding fans to the case floor would keep things even cooler and hopefully a little bit quieter, but it's quite acceptable so far. I'm really impressed with this 2070: it's fast as hell at 1200p, very cool and very, very quiet (below about 45% the fans are basically inaudible).

 

[Deleted member 300218]

Does anyone have any suggestions for taller case feet? I'm thinking that I need a bit more clearance under the case to help with airflow, but I can't seem to find suitable replacement feet. I know the Lian Li SD-04B feet are a popular choice, but they don't seem to be available in the UK at present. I've seen people using hifi feet but these all seem to take an M4 screw and I'm fairly sure the standard NCase feet are secure with an M3 (and I don't fancy expanding the existing holes).

Recently purchased these feet: https://mnpctech.com/pc-computer-st...e-m1-custom-replacement-case-feet-silver.html

I'm regretting the purchase (haven't even opened the box, so they are brand new), and can sell them to you for $25 + shipping.

 

[Bawjaws]

Recently purchased these feet: https://mnpctech.com/pc-computer-st...e-m1-custom-replacement-case-feet-silver.html

I'm regretting the purchase (haven't even opened the box, so they are brand new), and can sell them to you for $25 + shipping.

Thanks man, but as previously stated I'm in the UK so shipping isn't going to be economically viable!

 

[Deleted member 300218]

Thanks man, but as previously stated I'm in the UK so shipping isn't going to be economically viable!

Checked shipping rates and cheapest option is about $11 to UK. So if that's viable enough for you let me know. I can even include that as part of the price ($36, shipping included) so that you are secured, in case I end up actually paying more. That's same price as it costs new from MNPCTECH store (shipping discluded), and is a really good price ;-P

 

[M1Runner]

@MichtoK2, Goo Gone will remove that adhesive residue around your radiator

Good to know, Le Menthe, I see they're making vertical gpu mounts for the M1 here, https://mnpctech.com/pci-e-riser-ca...l-video-card-gpu-mounting-bracket-silver.html

 

[vortaku]

Anyone know what all will be changing with the version 6? Need to order another m1

 

[SmootyPoody]

So I am finally back with some more testing. This time bottom exhaust vs bottom intake. I didn't have an Accelero GPU cooler to test with, but rather just used the stock cooler and took the shroud and fans off.

The interesting part is, that in therory it should yield lower CPU/mobo temps with the cost being higher GPU temps. But I could not provide such evidence with this setup.

The GPU connected fans was working harder in exhaust and still the GPU temps was higher (delta) but the CPU temps were not lower. So it seems it was only a trade off - no gain. My theory now lies with the fact I am using a AIO cooler and that it does not gain any of the heat from within the system as the airway is blocked off from the inside (ie it does not use the internal air as a cooling device), so only outside air is used to cool the CPU. And as such it does not yield lower temps for the CPU if the GPU is exhausting into the case or outside.

My data is to find here as always. Its the bottom data sheet and test #3, #4 and #5 that I am speeking about here.

 

[Necere]

Anyone know what all will be changing with the version 6? Need to order another m1

You'll have to wait a bit longer for a full list of changes. I've talked about of the few of them over on SFFN though if you want to follow the thread there.

 

[vortaku]

You'll have to wait a bit longer for a full list of changes. I've talked about of the few of them over on SFFN though if you want to follow the thread there.

Appreciate you responding Necere!
Do we have a time table for the v6 to be orderable? (is oderable even a word?)

 

[Necere]

Appreciate you responding Necere!
Do we have a time table for the v6 to be orderable? (is oderable even a word?)

No, not yet.

 

[QuantumBraced]

I wonder if a 3-slot 2080 Ti like the XC/XC2 Ultra would perform better in the M1 than a 2080 Ti with an Accelero. Does anyone know?

 

[M1AF]

I wonder if a 3-slot 2080 Ti like the XC/XC2 Ultra would perform better in the M1 than a 2080 Ti with an Accelero. Does anyone know?

It doesn't perform better.

 

[HansWursT619]

But how does it compare?^^
I did not find numbers comparing a 2.5 slot card with its fans removed vs. the same accelero modded card.
Both running the same fans.

 

[M1AF]

But how does it compare?^^
I did not find numbers comparing a 2.5 slot card with its fans removed vs. the same accelero modded card.
Both running the same fans.

TLDR: Too many variables. Nobody has been willing to permanently damage their 2080ti in order to test without the fan brackets.

If you use an Asus or EVGA 2.75/2.7 slot card, you cannot fit a 25mm thick fan under them. 15mm max, the EVGA requires removing screws to get it to fit.
If you remove the shrouds, they have brackets soldered to the sink that will prevent the use of 25mm fans as exhaust. The Asus card can be used with 25mm fans as intake, barely. If you remove the brackets then you'll be the first that I know of, so please report back temps.
The Accelero allows the sink + 25mm thick fans. This is the gold standard currently.
The CPU cooler matters, as well as the CPU. That's why there aren't direct comparisons. If you use a C14S + TG then you will need the bottom fans as exhaust. 15mm intake fans on a fully shrouded 2080ti will result in horrible cpu temps.
If you use a U9S with 120mm side exhaust then the bottom intake fans might run better.

 

[QuantumBraced]

Okay, thanks for the information guys. Another question: How does the 645LT AIO compare to the U9S? Both heat exchangers are 92mm. The U9S has a larger heatsink, but the 645LT is liquid, so I'm thinking they're similar in performance? I want to finally get the window and I want to do Accelero intake on the bottom plus 645LT intake from the rear. That way the case will have positive pressure thru filtered intakes and all exhaust will be going out the top, which is good for dust control (which I actually value more than temperatures) and heat from the Accelero will not interfere with the CPU cooler because the latter will be getting fresh intake. And with the window, the AIO will look better. So that's my thought process, what do you think?

 

[Boil]

Okay, thanks for the information guys. Another question: How does the 645LT AIO compare to the U9S? Both heat exchangers are 92mm. The U9S has a larger heatsink, but the 645LT is liquid, so I'm thinking they're similar in performance? I want to finally get the window and I want to do Accelero intake on the bottom plus 645LT intake from the rear. That way the case will have positive pressure thru filtered intakes and all exhaust will be going out the top, which is good for dust control (which I actually value more than temperatures) and heat from the Accelero will not interfere with the CPU cooler because the latter will be getting fresh intake. And with the window, the AIO will look better. So that's my thought process, what do you think?

So just single 92mm (hopefully 25mm thick) fan intaking thru a radiator for the CPU...

And (assuming) dual 12x25s intaking thru a heat sink for the GPU...

But no chassis fan at all...? I forget if a SFX PSU can be used (with an adapter plate) in the forward position ATX PSU mount & still have the window...?

But if you CAN, then maybe mount another 12x25 fan exhausting up top, connected to the chassis fan header...

Maybe a custom bracket for the fan that attached to the ATX PSU mount...?

Might this bracket be possible, Necere ...?

 

[QuantumBraced]

So just single 92mm (hopefully 25mm thick) fan intaking thru a radiator for the CPU...

And (assuming) dual 12x25s intaking thru a heat sink for the GPU...

But no chassis fan at all...? I forget if a SFX PSU can be used (with an adapter plate) in the forward position ATX PSU mount & still have the window...?

But if you CAN, then maybe mount another 12x25 fan exhausting up top, connected to the chassis fan header...

Maybe a custom bracket for the fan that attached to the ATX PSU mount...?

Might this bracket be possible, Necere ...?

No, I actually asked this a while ago, you can't use the ATX bracket with the window. And yeah, 3 case intakes, and passive exhaust except the PSU which will be rotated inward, so it will provide additional exhaust. I have solid rubber plugs for the watercooling holes and a solid 3rd slot PCIe cover, so going for a chimney effect to ensure all intake is filtered and all exhaust is out the top to avoid dust settling in through there. The PSU may get a little loud, but I don't care that much about noise, I have a loud air purifier in my room (and an A/C in the summer), any fan in the PC spinning at under 2000 RPM is inaudible. And I don't tax my system that much. So it's all about dust management and looks, not about temperatures and noise.