NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

Bawjaws

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
450
They are intakes.
Yes they help air circulation in the case, as they are wider than the GPU, I've got better temps when activated, you can feel the air flow even if they are close to the GPU. I do not make them spining very fast (max 1200), else they get noisy because of restriction.
But No they do not "directly" cool the GPU, they only help circulation from the bottom to the rad. This card has a kind of waterblock all over the PCB so direct air on it do nothing for sure.
Yeah, that makes perfect sense - and it did occur to me just after I posted! It's definitely good to have some airflow into the case.
 

Bawjaws

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
450
Quick question for you all, if I may. I've been reading this thread for years and have seen most configurations under the sun at some point, but at the same time I'm not quite sure what to do regarding a potential upgrade I have in mind, so any advice would be gratefully received :)

I'm looking to upgrade my GPU, and I have my eye on an EVGA 2070 XC which is a 2-fan card that's the standard 2-slot width and under 11 inches long. I'm currently running a 6700K with a U9S, with a second 92mm Noctua fan on the rear of the case (as an exhaust) and a 120mm Noctua on the side panel (as an intake). I'm contemplating adding one or maybe two 120mm fans to the case floor to aid with GPU cooling, but can't decide whether it's better to go for standard 25mm thick fans here or to go for slim 15mm fans instead. My reasoning for the slim fans is so that there's a bit of a gap for air circulation rather than the fans being super tight to the GPU. My current GPU is a 660Ti which is also two slots thick, but a blower, and I didn't find adding a 25mm thick fan to the case floor did much of anything for temperatures, but that might just be because it's a blower rather than an open cooler.

Any thoughts as to whether slim fans are a better option than standard thickness ones? Low noise is a big priority for me so I'm concerned about turbulence with either option. I'm also undecided as to whether the fans should be intakes or exhausts, or whether I should reverse the existing fans so that air is drawn in the back of the case and then exhausted out of the side. That's easy enough to play around with, but I'd rather not have to buy two sets of fans for the case floor if I make the wrong choice initially!

Cheers!
 

MichtoK2

n00b
Joined
Apr 19, 2017
Messages
15
For sure, fans on the floor must be intake, never opposite to GPU fans of the 2070XC.
I would go for standard 25mm, no problem they are near the GPU, it will push air through the GPU and help GPU fans.
Slim fans only if your GPU is > 2 slots
Bigger fan = higher static pressure = more flow for lower speeds = lower noise, pretty sure
 

b21

n00b
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Messages
11
I have the 2080XC in the Case and can say the NF-A12 working fine. I have only a bit "noise" when I torture the graphics card over a long time. Then the EVGA fans are spinning up to 1600 rpm and they are loud.

Overall, you will need fans underneath it, because of the airflow through the case. Else you will reuse the hot air from the card.
 

Bawjaws

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
450
Does anyone have any suggestions for taller case feet? I'm thinking that I need a bit more clearance under the case to help with airflow, but I can't seem to find suitable replacement feet. I know the Lian Li SD-04B feet are a popular choice, but they don't seem to be available in the UK at present. I've seen people using hifi feet but these all seem to take an M4 screw and I'm fairly sure the standard NCase feet are secure with an M3 (and I don't fancy expanding the existing holes).
 

Bawjaws

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
450
Cheers for the link, but I'm looking for a supplier in the UK. Mnpctech do some nice feet for the M1, for example, but shipping from the US to the UK makes it not worthwhile.
 

b21

n00b
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Messages
11
Cheers for the link, but I'm looking for a supplier in the UK. Mnpctech do some nice feet for the M1, for example, but shipping from the US to the UK makes it not worthwhile.
I can't find it again, but somewhere he wrote that the 3D-Model of the feets are available. It's the option to let it print for yourself.
 

Chapeau

Gawd
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
752
Cheers for the link, but I'm looking for a supplier in the UK. Mnpctech do some nice feet for the M1, for example, but shipping from the US to the UK makes it not worthwhile.

M3 screws of many lengths can be bought from hobby supply shops. Usually in aluminium which is very easy to shorten if required.

These guys based in your neck of the woods would be great. :)
 

Bawjaws

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
450
Thanks Chapeau . I've bought some of these acoustic-dampening soft rubber feet as an experiment, which seem to be effective in quietening down my desk a bit. They also raise the M1 nearly 1cm further off the desk (I've stuck them to the existing feet). I'm not convinced that they'll stick brilliantly but we'll see for now.

I've also decided to hang fire on adding any fans to the case floor as my 2070 seems to be running pretty cool as is: it's not gone above 77°C under load and even then the fans haven't been at more than about two-thirds speed. I'm sure that adding fans to the case floor would keep things even cooler and hopefully a little bit quieter, but it's quite acceptable so far. I'm really impressed with this 2070: it's fast as hell at 1200p, very cool and very, very quiet (below about 45% the fans are basically inaudible).
 
D

Deleted member 300218

Guest
Does anyone have any suggestions for taller case feet? I'm thinking that I need a bit more clearance under the case to help with airflow, but I can't seem to find suitable replacement feet. I know the Lian Li SD-04B feet are a popular choice, but they don't seem to be available in the UK at present. I've seen people using hifi feet but these all seem to take an M4 screw and I'm fairly sure the standard NCase feet are secure with an M3 (and I don't fancy expanding the existing holes).

Recently purchased these feet: https://mnpctech.com/pc-computer-st...e-m1-custom-replacement-case-feet-silver.html

I'm regretting the purchase (haven't even opened the box, so they are brand new), and can sell them to you for $25 + shipping.
 
D

Deleted member 300218

Guest
Thanks man, but as previously stated I'm in the UK so shipping isn't going to be economically viable!

Checked shipping rates and cheapest option is about $11 to UK. So if that's viable enough for you let me know. I can even include that as part of the price ($36, shipping included) so that you are secured, in case I end up actually paying more. That's same price as it costs new from MNPCTECH store (shipping discluded), and is a really good price ;-P
 

SmootyPoody

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 22, 2018
Messages
71
So I am finally back with some more testing. This time bottom exhaust vs bottom intake. I didn't have an Accelero GPU cooler to test with, but rather just used the stock cooler and took the shroud and fans off.

The interesting part is, that in therory it should yield lower CPU/mobo temps with the cost being higher GPU temps. But I could not provide such evidence with this setup.

The GPU connected fans was working harder in exhaust and still the GPU temps was higher (delta) but the CPU temps were not lower. So it seems it was only a trade off - no gain. My theory now lies with the fact I am using a AIO cooler and that it does not gain any of the heat from within the system as the airway is blocked off from the inside (ie it does not use the internal air as a cooling device), so only outside air is used to cool the CPU. And as such it does not yield lower temps for the CPU if the GPU is exhausting into the case or outside.

My data is to find here as always. Its the bottom data sheet and test #3, #4 and #5 that I am speeking about here.
 

Necere

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Messages
2,751
Anyone know what all will be changing with the version 6? Need to order another m1
You'll have to wait a bit longer for a full list of changes. I've talked about of the few of them over on SFFN though if you want to follow the thread there.
 

vortaku

Weaksauce
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
89
You'll have to wait a bit longer for a full list of changes. I've talked about of the few of them over on SFFN though if you want to follow the thread there.
Appreciate you responding Necere!
Do we have a time table for the v6 to be orderable? (is oderable even a word?)
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
589
I wonder if a 3-slot 2080 Ti like the XC/XC2 Ultra would perform better in the M1 than a 2080 Ti with an Accelero. Does anyone know?
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2017
Messages
1
But how does it compare?^^
I did not find numbers comparing a 2.5 slot card with its fans removed vs. the same accelero modded card.
Both running the same fans.
 

M1AF

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
258
But how does it compare?^^
I did not find numbers comparing a 2.5 slot card with its fans removed vs. the same accelero modded card.
Both running the same fans.

TLDR: Too many variables. Nobody has been willing to permanently damage their 2080ti in order to test without the fan brackets.

If you use an Asus or EVGA 2.75/2.7 slot card, you cannot fit a 25mm thick fan under them. 15mm max, the EVGA requires removing screws to get it to fit.
If you remove the shrouds, they have brackets soldered to the sink that will prevent the use of 25mm fans as exhaust. The Asus card can be used with 25mm fans as intake, barely. If you remove the brackets then you'll be the first that I know of, so please report back temps.
The Accelero allows the sink + 25mm thick fans. This is the gold standard currently.
The CPU cooler matters, as well as the CPU. That's why there aren't direct comparisons. If you use a C14S + TG then you will need the bottom fans as exhaust. 15mm intake fans on a fully shrouded 2080ti will result in horrible cpu temps.
If you use a U9S with 120mm side exhaust then the bottom intake fans might run better.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
589
Okay, thanks for the information guys. Another question: How does the 645LT AIO compare to the U9S? Both heat exchangers are 92mm. The U9S has a larger heatsink, but the 645LT is liquid, so I'm thinking they're similar in performance? I want to finally get the window and I want to do Accelero intake on the bottom plus 645LT intake from the rear. That way the case will have positive pressure thru filtered intakes and all exhaust will be going out the top, which is good for dust control (which I actually value more than temperatures) and heat from the Accelero will not interfere with the CPU cooler because the latter will be getting fresh intake. And with the window, the AIO will look better. So that's my thought process, what do you think?
 

Boil

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 19, 2015
Messages
1,439
Okay, thanks for the information guys. Another question: How does the 645LT AIO compare to the U9S? Both heat exchangers are 92mm. The U9S has a larger heatsink, but the 645LT is liquid, so I'm thinking they're similar in performance? I want to finally get the window and I want to do Accelero intake on the bottom plus 645LT intake from the rear. That way the case will have positive pressure thru filtered intakes and all exhaust will be going out the top, which is good for dust control (which I actually value more than temperatures) and heat from the Accelero will not interfere with the CPU cooler because the latter will be getting fresh intake. And with the window, the AIO will look better. So that's my thought process, what do you think?

So just single 92mm (hopefully 25mm thick) fan intaking thru a radiator for the CPU...

And (assuming) dual 12x25s intaking thru a heat sink for the GPU...

But no chassis fan at all...? I forget if a SFX PSU can be used (with an adapter plate) in the forward position ATX PSU mount & still have the window...?

But if you CAN, then maybe mount another 12x25 fan exhausting up top, connected to the chassis fan header...

Maybe a custom bracket for the fan that attached to the ATX PSU mount...?

Might this bracket be possible, Necere ...?
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
589
So just single 92mm (hopefully 25mm thick) fan intaking thru a radiator for the CPU...

And (assuming) dual 12x25s intaking thru a heat sink for the GPU...

But no chassis fan at all...? I forget if a SFX PSU can be used (with an adapter plate) in the forward position ATX PSU mount & still have the window...?

But if you CAN, then maybe mount another 12x25 fan exhausting up top, connected to the chassis fan header...

Maybe a custom bracket for the fan that attached to the ATX PSU mount...?

Might this bracket be possible, Necere ...?

No, I actually asked this a while ago, you can't use the ATX bracket with the window. And yeah, 3 case intakes, and passive exhaust except the PSU which will be rotated inward, so it will provide additional exhaust. I have solid rubber plugs for the watercooling holes and a solid 3rd slot PCIe cover, so going for a chimney effect to ensure all intake is filtered and all exhaust is out the top to avoid dust settling in through there. The PSU may get a little loud, but I don't care that much about noise, I have a loud air purifier in my room (and an A/C in the summer), any fan in the PC spinning at under 2000 RPM is inaudible. And I don't tax my system that much. So it's all about dust management and looks, not about temperatures and noise. :D
 

Boil

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 19, 2015
Messages
1,439
No, I actually asked this a while ago, you can't use the ATX bracket with the window.

Hey Necere maybe a front mount bracket specifically for SFX PSUs, one that allows the window AND adds the ability to attach a single 120mm fan for exhaust out the top of the chassis...?

Another option for top exhaust, with the standard configuration of the SFX PSU alongside the motherboard, mounting four 80mm fans. two over the motherboard & two in front of the PSU...?

I'm gonna stop typing now... ;^p
 

Necere

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Messages
2,751
Hey Necere maybe a front mount bracket specifically for SFX PSUs, one that allows the window AND adds the ability to attach a single 120mm fan for exhaust out the top of the chassis...?

Another option for top exhaust, with the standard configuration of the SFX PSU alongside the motherboard, mounting four 80mm fans. two over the motherboard & two in front of the PSU...?

I'm gonna stop typing now... ;^p
So for V6 I've redesigned the SFX bracket such that it can be installed either in the original side location, or at the front. It's not backward compatible with V5 though unfortunately, as it required some changes to the bracket and chassis to make it work in both locations. The ATX bracket will no longer be included.

As for additional fan mounts at the top, there really isn't enough room to make that work.
 

Bawjaws

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
450
So for V6 I've redesigned the SFX bracket such that it can be installed either in the original side location, or at the front.
Do you mean that it can be rotated 90° so that it's behind the front panel and "across" the case? What is the advantage of that orientation compared to the standard "side mounted" one? Wouldn't it impinge on the clearance at the side panel?

Sorry if these are silly questions, but I'm trying to get my head round this and work out what benefit you'd get from having a little bit more space between the motherboard and PSU.
 

teo

n00b
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
36
I'm trying to get my head round this and work out what benefit you'd get from having a little bit more space between the motherboard and PSU.
Most people that I’ve seen rotate their SFX psu to the “atx” position was to get a bit more room for the C14S’s bottom A14 fan. With the psu in the normal spot, the 140mm fan wouldn’t fit underneath the heatsink. The smaller SFX unit in the front position also creates a gap on the side panel where some additional air can enter/exhaust through the vent holes
 

Necere

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Messages
2,751
Do you mean that it can be rotated 90° so that it's behind the front panel and "across" the case? What is the advantage of that orientation compared to the standard "side mounted" one? Wouldn't it impinge on the clearance at the side panel?

Sorry if these are silly questions, but I'm trying to get my head round this and work out what benefit you'd get from having a little bit more space between the motherboard and PSU.
Yeah, across the case. Basically what people were already doing using the ATX bracket.

Clearance for the bottom fan on the C14S is the main thing. There are also some microATX-ish motherboards that will benefit from it.
 

Bawjaws

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
450
Yeah, across the case. Basically what people were already doing using the ATX bracket.

Clearance for the bottom fan on the C14S is the main thing. There are also some microATX-ish motherboards that will benefit from it.
Ah, thanks for clarifying. Makes sense, although it's a shame it breaks compatibility for such an edge case.
 

Mannymal

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
286
Any ideas how to repaint shallow cosmetic scratches in the NCASE’s paint? On a black case.

Also one of the expansion slot screw threads has stripped (seems common with Lian-Li aluminum) any idea if there is a way to repair that, or should i accept it and move on?
 

Bawjaws

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
450
Any ideas how to repaint shallow cosmetic scratches in the NCASE’s paint? On a black case.

Also one of the expansion slot screw threads has stripped (seems common with Lian-Li aluminum) any idea if there is a way to repair that, or should i accept it and move on?
A black sharpie might be your best bet, to be honest. The case panels aren't painted, they're anodised, so touching them up is going to tricky.

In terms of the expansion slot, you could go for a nut & bolt solution rather than a screw.
 

Mannymal

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
286
Has anyone tried sandblasting the panels? Powder coating? Thinking of bringing it into a professional shop
 
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Chapeau

Gawd
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
752
Any ideas how to repaint shallow cosmetic scratches in the NCASE’s paint? On a black case.

Also one of the expansion slot screw threads has stripped (seems common with Lian-Li aluminum) any idea if there is a way to repair that, or should i accept it and move on?

Probably just move on... :( There's not enough clearance or thickness for a proper repair;
1. Helicoil would be the standard for a stripped component like this that you can't tap
2. Small barrel nut like this would work if you had surrounding clearance
3. Sex nut and barrel bolt combo if you lack clearance, but getting one in a small enough diameter would be difficult
 
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Nobu

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
5,084
Probably just move on... :( There's not enough clearance or thickness for a proper repair;
1. Helicoil would be the standard for a stripped component like this that you can't tap
2. Small barrel nut like this would work if you had surrounding clearance
3. Sex nut and barrel bolt combo if you lack clearance, but getting one in a small enough diameter would be difficult
If you know the size, digikey probably has it. or you can check your local hardware store (not Lowe's/HD, etc -- They may have it, but unlikely).
 
Joined
May 26, 2019
Messages
1
Just for anyone who is interested. I've created this M1 underdesk hanger

anyone are welcome to download and print em yourself.

link is on thingiverse 3655043

or click https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3655043


cheers.
 

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