NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

M1AF

Limp Gawd
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Dunno if you can try my setup? I'm curious. My main idea was to exhaust 100% air from the CPU heatsink with a duct which I did using tunnel tape but maybe you don't have something to replicate the duct.

It's unlikely that I will be able to duplicate your setup.
 

Mrclean

n00b
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Apr 3, 2015
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Thanks for your work M1AF. Really good read, and makes me want to upgrade from my U9S to a NH-C14. While the C14s did out preform, for my airflow set up I really want the C14. If you ever decide to let it go, please PM me.
 

ranix

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Hi guys,

anyone can confirme me that the msi 2080 ti galing X trio and that the evga XC ultra Gaming are both fiting in the ncase?
Would like to make sure of it before ordering one of the 2.

thanks to anyone that can confirm or not.
 

M1AF

Limp Gawd
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The Gaming X almost certainly will not fit.

The XC Ultra fits for sure.
20181013_230920.jpg
 

ranix

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Thanks a lot so evga it is.
Now i need to see what mother board and ram will work for a 9900k plus a noctua c 14 and I will have secure all the part:)
 

doug_7506

2[H]4U
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Tempered glass panels almost always did just as well if not better than vented panels. This makes no sense in my head.

This is very odd. How can restricting air flow decrease temps? Or does having the tempered glass force the cooler to pull colder air from the top?
 

M1AF

Limp Gawd
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This is very odd. How can restricting air flow decrease temps? Or does having the tempered glass force the cooler to pull colder air from the top?

My totally made up and theoretical BS guess would be something like, I think it's better pressure optimized with the TG window. There's essentially one way in and one way out and the flow is better due to the exhausting fans. When you introduce the extra ventilated holes it changes where the air flows and is less optimized.
I was able to repeat each test multiple times with the same results. At first I thought I was putting the numbers in the wrong rows and I had to start tests over because of it, but after I double checked, it became clear that the TG kept winning.
 

Boil

[H]ard|Gawd
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My totally made up and theoretical BS guess would be something like, I think it's better pressure optimized with the TG window. There's essentially one way in and one way out and the flow is better due to the exhausting fans. When you introduce the extra ventilated holes it changes where the air flows and is less optimized.
I was able to repeat each test multiple times with the same results. At first I thought I was putting the numbers in the wrong rows and I had to start tests over because of it, but after I double checked, it became clear that the TG kept winning.

TG, interesting...
 

Nanook

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My totally made up and theoretical BS guess would be something like, I think it's better pressure optimized with the TG window. There's essentially one way in and one way out and the flow is better due to the exhausting fans. When you introduce the extra ventilated holes it changes where the air flows and is less optimized.
I was able to repeat each test multiple times with the same results. At first I thought I was putting the numbers in the wrong rows and I had to start tests over because of it, but after I double checked, it became clear that the TG kept winning.
I look forward to your tests with the 240mm AIO! I’m thinking to go back to TG with the C14S on full display.
 

ranix

Limp Gawd
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154
Moving forward with my config I am close to having selected all the part:

cpu 9900k
gpu evga 2080ti XC ultra
MB: Asrock Z390 Phantom ITX
PSU sf600 corsaire
Cooler C14( already have it)
SSD 970 evo or evo plus
Fan a couple of NOCTUA.

my last question is regardin the ram, looking for 32Giga, anyone has any advice, I have absolutely no idea about what fit under the C14 and also what is good( I don t need the best of the best to get 1 frame more for 100$ more)...

Anyone could help me on this one? I will only use 1 fan on the top of the C14, nothing under.


Thanks a lot
 

M1AF

Limp Gawd
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Messages
258
Moving forward with my config I am close to having selected all the part:

cpu 9900k
gpu evga 2080ti XC ultra
MB: Asrock Z390 Phantom ITX
PSU sf600 corsaire
Cooler C14( already have it)
SSD 970 evo or evo plus
Fan a couple of NOCTUA.

my last question is regardin the ram, looking for 32Giga, anyone has any advice, I have absolutely no idea about what fit under the C14 and also what is good( I don t need the best of the best to get 1 frame more for 100$ more)...

Anyone could help me on this one? I will only use 1 fan on the top of the C14, nothing under.


Thanks a lot

Any ram kit will fit under the C14 if you're not in low profile mode.
 

doug_7506

2[H]4U
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What size radiator will fit at the bottom with full size fans? Will be using a waterblock on the GPU.

Alphacool ST30 at 30mm with 25mm fans?

If not I think I'd rather go slimmer radiator than slimmer fans to try to keep noise under control.
 

Nanook

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What size radiator will fit at the bottom with full size fans? Will be using a waterblock on the GPU.

Alphacool ST30 at 30mm with 25mm fans?

If not I think I'd rather go slimmer radiator than slimmer fans to try to keep noise under control.
I've used a Hardware Labs Black Ice GT Stealth 240. It's 30mm thick. It is slightly shorter, but wider than other 240mm radiators, and fit well in the floor of the M1. Even with a GPU waterblock, you will not be able to use 25mm fans with a 30mm thick radiator.
 

doug_7506

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I've used a Hardware Labs Black Ice GT Stealth 240. It's 30mm thick. It is slightly shorter, but wider than other 240mm radiators, and fit well in the floor of the M1. Even with a GPU waterblock, you will not be able to use 25mm fans with a 30mm thick radiator.

Thanks for the heads up.

I'll go with the xspc tx240. Its only 20.5mm thick. Hopefully, then I can go full size fans

EDIT, what size fans did you use? 15mm?
 
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Nanook

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Thanks for the heads up.

I'll go with the xspc tx240. Its only 20.5mm thick. Hopefully, then I can go full size fans

EDIT, what size fans did you use? 15mm?
Technically you can fit the XSPC rad + 15mm fans + gpu + waterblock, but the fans will be choked...

Some of the slim fans I've tried:
  • Silverstone FW121 PWM
  • Noctua A12x15 PWM
  • Nhowe XtraFlo Slim 12015 PWM
They all choked with restrictive bottom opening, and crowded space below the gpu. I don't recommend a bottom radiator.
 

doug_7506

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Technically you can fit the XSPC rad + 15mm fans + gpu + waterblock, but the fans will be choked...

Some of the slim fans I've tried:
  • Silverstone FW121 PWM
  • Noctua A12x15 PWM
  • Nhowe XtraFlo Slim 12015 PWM
They all choked with restrictive bottom opening, and crowded space below the gpu. I don't recommend a bottom radiator.

I didn't realize it was that tight. That's Depressing.

You used the xspc tx240?
 
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Nanook

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I didn't realize it was that tight. That's Depressing.

You used the xspc tx240?
Sorry to bring bad news, but bottom radiator builds are usually windowed showcases, and cooling performance suffers. They're usually beautiful though. I loved mine when I had it :)

No I haven't used the TX240. It may allow more room for slim fans to breathe (but insufficient static pressure), or allow for 25mm fans to provide the proper static pressure (but no breathing room).
 

M1AF

Limp Gawd
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Sorry to bring bad news, but bottom radiator builds are usually windowed showcases, and cooling performance suffers. They're usually beautiful though. I loved mine when I had it :)

No I haven't used the TX240. It may allow more room for slim fans to breathe (but insufficient static pressure), or allow for 25mm fans to provide the proper static pressure (but no breathing room).

I have always wanted to try to do a custom water cooled build in the M1, but so far I haven't been able to bring myself to do it since I've heard so many times that the performance is the same as top end air coolers.
 

Nanook

Limp Gawd
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I’ve seen many effective custom loop build in the M1. Many use an external rear reservoir, with a small Swiftech combination pump & cpu block. Some even have 480mm of radiators cooling HEDT chips. Windowed watercooled builds are ok for non OC chips.
 

doug_7506

2[H]4U
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My current config has 360mm of rad in it. 240 at bottom and 120mm on the side. My rough math gives me 310w of cooling requirements and 300w worth of cooling support with the two radiators.

Will be using an Aphacooll Eisbaer. Still not sure if it'll be strong enough. Max flow rate is 70L/h. (which is really low compared to a D5.) I'm wondering if it will be able to handle a the CPU, a GPU block, and 2 radiators.

Even the Swiftech Apogee drive comes back higher than that. According to amazon it does 17.5l/min of 1032 l/h.

I feel like I am missing something.


EDIT: info regarding pumps.
 
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SirJack

n00b
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Jan 26, 2018
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4
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it looks like it won't work. The PSU itself isn't an issue, but the ATX bracket attaches directly to the frame, so there's only 1.5mm between the bracket and the side panel. That wouldn't be a problem, except for the fact the bottom of the bracket overlaps the top of the window by about 2.5mm.

Sorry guys, I should've checked this for conflicts. I wasn't that interested in doing the window in the first place, so I pretty much let w360 do it by himself. He isn't as intimately familiar with the design of the M1 as I am, so I can't really expect him to think of everything I would. The M1 is my work, and it's my responsibility to ensure that everything works the way it should.

I haven't checked the forums after a got my ncase for a while so I didn't realize others ran into the same problem as I did (and assumed a minor defect in the panel). My solution is a 3D printed bracket; I will make that available on thingiverse soon.

Edit: Link for SFX version up. Will update over the weekends for ATX PSU

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3391817
 
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SmootyPoody

Weaksauce
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Aug 22, 2018
Messages
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Slim fans OP? My new testing of prime 95 small fft's and furmark is showing that nf-a12x15's are outperforming x12x25's. I'm on the OG C14 now. Really looking forward to the U9S results.

I'm currently on the U9S. Here's a link. I'm updating as tests finish.


My life right now

View attachment 136581


So this is a setup with an Accelero and I can see the C14 has a setup with 2x120mm intake. But how are the Accelero fans oriented? intake or outtake? Also. I cannot see any tests with C14 + 2x120mm outtake? is this correct?

And M1AF.. Thanks for doing this! This is a huuuuuge project with lots of hours in it. I have been an advocate for C14+2x120mm (actually 3x120mm (one underneath also, as I have in my own setup)), but I can see that you can easily have TG and have VERY good temps.. and much easier to buy a cooler (C14S is so much easier to find then the OG C14).
 

M1AF

Limp Gawd
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So this is a setup with an Accelero and I can see the C14 has a setup with 2x120mm intake. But how are the Accelero fans oriented? intake or outtake? Also. I cannot see any tests with C14 + 2x120mm outtake? is this correct?

And M1AF.. Thanks for doing this! This is a huuuuuge project with lots of hours in it. I have been an advocate for C14+2x120mm (actually 3x120mm (one underneath also, as I have in my own setup)), but I can see that you can easily have TG and have VERY good temps.. and much easier to buy a cooler (C14S is so much easier to find then the OG C14).

In all of the tests the Accelero was used with two NF-A12X25's in exhaust connected to the GPU via gelid adapter and fan profile set to default. It's widely accepted that is the best possible air GPU solution, so I wanted to make that consistent throughout all of the tests.

I have to tear the system down today for AIO testing (thank you Doug!), so when that is all done I will test the exhaust C14 setup with 3x fans and also a C14 setup with 3x intake fans.
 

SmootyPoody

Weaksauce
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In all of the tests the Accelero was used with two NF-A12X25's in exhaust connected to the GPU via gelid adapter and fan profile set to default. It's widely accepted that is the best possible air GPU solution, so I wanted to make that consistent throughout all of the tests.

I have to tear the system down today for AIO testing (thank you Doug!), so when that is all done I will test the exhaust C14 setup with 3x fans and also a C14 setup with 3x intake fans.

Ah okay.. As far as I am aware, the best setup with an Accelero is to use it to intake, and exaust with CPU fans. Sure the CPU will be a little warmer, but not much.. but the GPU will be a lot cooler. But depends on your workloads. If you never use GPU accerated software or only often it is of cause best to maximise CPU cooling. But for a gamer it is best to cool the GPU as much as possible.
 

Boil

[H]ard|Gawd
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In all of the tests the Accelero was used with two NF-A12X25's in exhaust connected to the GPU via gelid adapter and fan profile set to default. It's widely accepted that is the best possible air GPU solution, so I wanted to make that consistent throughout all of the tests.

As far as I am aware, the best setup with an Accelero is to use it to intake...

I've never heard that before.

The consensus throughout this thread is that the Accelero solution is best as exhaust...
 

SmootyPoody

Weaksauce
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I've never heard that before.

The consensus throughout this thread is that the Accelero solution is best as exhaust...

Sorry! You are absolutly correct. I dont know what I was thinking. I just became a dad for the first time 2 weeks ago, so sleep and the ability to remember stuff is gone! Of cause it is better to use it as exhaust. That is the whole point. Sorry!
 

Boil

[H]ard|Gawd
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I just became a dad for the first time 2 weeks ago, so sleep and the ability to remember stuff is gone!

Congrats...!

As a father of two, I totally understand the whole sleep deprivation / memory impairment thing...

It will get easier in about 18 years...!
 

Nanook

Limp Gawd
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Sorry! You are absolutly correct. I dont know what I was thinking. I just became a dad for the first time 2 weeks ago, so sleep and the ability to remember stuff is gone! Of cause it is better to use it as exhaust. That is the whole point. Sorry!
Congratulations on becoming a dad!
 

M1AF

Limp Gawd
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AIO results are up. After the first few runs I noticed that the difference between a 15 minute run and a one hour run is like 1c so I went with multiple 15 minute tests. All tests began when the liquid temp was up to 30C. Max liquid temp after an hour never broke 40C. All tests were done with two NF-A12x25 fans at 60% - pump at full speed.




20190130_125924.jpg 20190130_200035.jpg
 

rfarmer

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AIO results are up. After the first few runs I noticed that the difference between a 15 minute run and a one hour run is like 1c so I went with multiple 15 minute tests. All tests began when the liquid temp was up to 30C. Max liquid temp after an hour never broke 40C. All tests were done with two NF-A12x25 fans at 60% - pump at full speed.




View attachment 138606 View attachment 138607


Very nice and thorough test as usual, I want to thank you for all the time and effort you have put in. Didn't realize a 240 AIO would cool that much better, can I ask which model?

I want to thank doug_7506 for his loan of the 240 AIO, gives a much more complete testing group.
 

M1AF

Limp Gawd
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Very nice and thorough test as usual, I want to thank you for all the time and effort you have put in. Didn't realize a 240 AIO would cool that much better, can I ask which model?

I want to thank doug_7506 for his loan of the 240 AIO, gives a much more complete testing group.

It's the EVGA CLC 240. It worked and fit well, and the software was easy to use. Very nice unit.
 

Blindphleb

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M1AF Can you comment on the sound of each cooling solution? I'm most interested in the comparison between the OG C14 with 3 120 fans and the 240 AIO. In other words the best air configuration vs the best aio configuration.
 

doug_7506

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Very nice results. Thanks for taking the time to do it!

Also interested in noise you observed between the test. And the CLC test was done with Noctua fans installed? Not the stock ones correct?
 
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M1AF

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Very nice results. Thanks for taking the time to do it!

Also interested in noise you observed between the test. And the CLC test was done with Noctua fans installed? Not the stock ones correct?

I would consider 60% fan speed too loud to use 24/7. My testing methodology was to make everything as equal as possible and then people can scale down to noise levels they're comfortable with.

This is the GPU fan profile I personally run:

GPU Fan Speed.PNG

You can get away with around 45% fan speed before the A12x25's become audible. The problem is with the 92mm A9's. Those things scream. I turn mine down to 25% in the bios and that is silent, but it is louder at 30% than the A12X25's at 50%. I legit hate those little fans.

And that's correct Doug, I used A12X25's on all of the AIO testing.
 

Nanook

Limp Gawd
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AIO results are up. After the first few runs I noticed that the difference between a 15 minute run and a one hour run is like 1c so I went with multiple 15 minute tests. All tests began when the liquid temp was up to 30C. Max liquid temp after an hour never broke 40C. All tests were done with two NF-A12x25 fans at 60% - pump at full speed.




View attachment 138606 View attachment 138607

Thank you for the tests! Your results are consistent with my findings (U9S, C14, C14S, 240mm AIO) as well.
 
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