NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by wahaha360, Sep 15, 2012.

  1. Alexreffand

    Alexreffand [H]Lite

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    I'm pretty sure convection isn't so powerful as to render bottom exhaust fans useless. Even if it was, bottom radiators can (and I believe often do) have their fans as intakes, so saying bottom radiators are useless due to convection doesn't make sense either.

    I'd say bottom exhaust fans don't make sense for completely different reasons, like the fact that it makes an air cooled gpu have to fight them for air and a radiator have to recycle hot air from the case when the cool air you get as an intake would make the radiator more effective.
     
  2. lOCHLI

    lOCHLI n00bie

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    Now the 2 bottom fans to intake would work, but I was only commenting on the folks who set it up to expel instead of intake. I too have spent, 4 figures on parts for fun and trying to find the best temps I could. Now mind you I went straight to water when I couldn't find the Noctura CPU cooler available anymore, but I have tried 5 different rads/combos, (1x 240, 1x240+120mm, side bottom, back, EK/Black Ice/etc.., 2x pumps, 3x blocks, dozens of fans/push, pull, both, High CFM/High pressure, low FPI,High FPI, etc..,) I literally have bags of parts for the Ncase lol.

    In the end, in all my testing, the side vent ALWAYS produced the best temps and even then I can still spike upto 65c in Prime smallFT @4.6 6700k DELIDDED. (I have not modified it for top mount) It just interesting to see all these nice builds and I have no idea how 1x slim rad with 2x slim colored fans is producing acceptable temps. Im not saying anything is right or wrong with anybodys build and I love to see them all for ideas, just trying to understand how others are doing it.

    Edit: Or Air for that matter with the Ncase. I understand it works, and its within spec, but my PC's would literally make my house temps rise so I dunno.

    Its kind of an addiction now for me lol.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  3. pabs

    pabs n00bie

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    Getting the heat out of the case ASAP is why the bottom exhaust works, the hot air is evacuated and allowed to do its rising thing outside the case. When the bottoms fans are set as intake all the hot air coming off the radiator or GPU fins recirculates within the case and is then sucked through whatever else you have above it before leaving the enclosure.

    I'm also not sure I've seen a high TDP system with only a single slim rad with amazing temperatures, it's usually a side 240m + a slim 240mm on the bottom. You've also got to keep in mind most builds with the side window are prioritizing aesthetics to show off the build and not necessarily top performance.
     
  4. obs

    obs 2[H]4U

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    Exactly, the fact hot air rises has almost zero impact on how you should setup your fans. The impact of fans, even at low RPMs, completely negates the effect of hot air's natural movement.
     
  5. lOCHLI

    lOCHLI n00bie

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    So youre telling me, that as soon as a fan is introduced either naked or attached to a rad, the "hot air rising" effect is negated?
     
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  6. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

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    Yes, unless you have absolutely terrible fans or you have a fire in your case.
     
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  7. Engr62

    Engr62 Limp Gawd

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    Heat rises due to air buoyancy. The air in contact with a heated surface heats up, causing it to expand and become less dense than the air further away from the surface. The denser air moves downward (due to gravity) displacing the less dense air which moves up. This is the mechanics of natural convection.

    It doesn't take a lot of forced flow (from fans) to overcome the upward travel of the heat.
     
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  8. lOCHLI

    lOCHLI n00bie

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    Edit. After reading some Physics about wind, I guess my take was completely wrong, with regards to air rebounding all these months. Never thought to inquire until this mini discussion.

    I might rebuild the loop, again lol...
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  9. Nanook

    Nanook Limp Gawd

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    Bottom radiator (plus window) is purely for aesthetic reasons. I used to have a custom loop with custom TG window in the M1. Bottom HWL 240mm slim rad with slim fans, rear Alphacool / HWL 92mm rad and fan. It looked amazing, but the temperatures were never great. I ended up running all the components (6700K delidded, GTX1080FE) stock, fans run at very high rpm, just so that my components stay cool (under 75c), coolant and pump to stay under 50c...
     
  10. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

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    Yeah, there's such a small volume, with decent exhaust fans and at least one intake, you'll be clearing the air out before it has a chance to get very hot at all.
     
  11. Greeley

    Greeley Limp Gawd

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    i have a 8700k, even without OC'ing i dnt think my temps would be good on that cooler
     
  12. Qrash

    Qrash Gawd

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    Yes, I agree and would try a side intake first.
     
  13. Valenorf

    Valenorf n00bie

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    Did you think that a build with an i7 9700k plus Nvidia 2070, with a single 240 mm aio on the cpu will work? No additional bottom or case fans
     
  14. M1AF

    M1AF Limp Gawd

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    I think so, but I'm pretty sure you would see better results with two bottom intake fans and exhaust the 240 fans.
     
  15. luddviig

    luddviig n00bie

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    Hi guys!

    I saw this post, I have a asus 2070 turbo and would like to place the Accelero Cooler on the card. Do you think it will fit in the Ncase? Can anyone confirm if it will work or not?
     
  16. Smitty2k1

    Smitty2k1 Gawd

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    I really like my SX650 too but recently had to RMA it. Silverstone made a change to correct premature OCP that occurs with Vega cards. I've ordered a SF600 platinum to use while my SX650 is out for RMA. I got the SF600 plat for $120 shipped for Black Friday so I figure I can just sell it for $120+shipping when I'm done with it.

    If I find some free time, I was going to try to do some pseudo-scientific noise comparisons between the two.

    I don't really buy into the GPU sag hype though. Especially in your situation where the GPU touches the case fans...
     
  17. vortaku

    vortaku [H]Lite

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    How is the evga sfx psu? I am going to be replacing most of my build soon, and trying to nail down the psu.

    what are the pros and cons to:
    corsair sf600
    silverstone sfx 600(what i currently have)
    evga 600
    am i missing any options?
     
  18. pabs

    pabs n00bie

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    Corsair SF600 Platinum. The new platinum model comes with sleeved cables and a reworked fan controller (PWM).

    My Silverstone SFX made a weird ticking noise at idle so I grabbed an SF600 Gold at launch a few years ago before people started posting about fan issues on that PSU...

    I have no idea about the EVGA SFX units, I think OklahomaWolf reviewed the unit and had good things to say over at jonnyGURU.

    You could also wait for the rumored/leaked SF750 Corsair an reuse the Silverstone SFX unit in the interim.
     
  19. teo

    teo n00bie

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    I've been eyeing the SilverStone NJ450, though it's SFX-L (132mm at the connectors) and I've yet to see one in the M1. It's ~7mm longer than the SGX-650 and the cables don't look quite as flexible, but it could also be mounted ATX/attached to the front panel since you don't have to worry about airflow. It's a fully passive unit, and the internals are apparently rated for far beyond 450W (one review I read had over power protection at 666W). It is, however, $200 USD.

    I don't need more than 450W but my sf450 plat is louder than I'd like on load. The SF600 plat doesn't look like it'd be a big noise difference (per Cybernetics Labs testing). It sure would be swell if that SF750 shows up soon as I think that'd satisfy my noise needs in a real SFX form factor.
     
  20. Engr62

    Engr62 Limp Gawd

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    Has anyone used the FSP Dagger SFX PSUs? A 500W 80+ Gold sells for $100 on Amazon. I've got a Corsair SF450 in my NCASE M1 and am happy with it. But, I'm only running a GTX 1070 in it now.
     
  21. SmootyPoody

    SmootyPoody n00bie

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    So just got the last part of my new build today. It was the motherboard. But sadly, it does not fit in the NCase with the Noctua C14 (legacy) :'(

    So that makes it quite easy to chose a motherboard. Only the ASRock Z390 Phantom gaming is the real choice then if you want to use this cooler on the CPU (9900K). Either that or chose a different cooler.

    I wanted the ASUS as I like their motherboards more. Its a personal thing. We all have our reasons (for me, its the fan handling - its just better and super important in these small setups) and it can easily handle the 9900K. Its the heat in these small setup thats the problem. Dont really like ASRock motherboard (personal thing), but now I am forced.. Oh well. Thunderbolt support and better VRMs is not that bad. Just need a good way to setup the fans then.

    YyFWz3y.jpg
     
  22. Qrash

    Qrash Gawd

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    What about removing the cover from that rear heatsink or even filing some notches into it? Or replace the heatsink with smaller ones.
     
  23. SmootyPoody

    SmootyPoody n00bie

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    Removing it is not wise as then you remove the whole heatsink and this board already only have 3 phases so they get pretty warm I would imagine. There is no "cover"..

    Filling it am I not prepared to do.. Sure it can be done. But would lose my warranty.. But if you are ready to lose that, then it is possible.

    One could just use a U9S and it would fit (thou would block some of the fan I would imagine).. But I am not ready to go for a small cooler. I am replacing it with the ASUS Z390 Phantom gaming ITX board. Should be fine, but was not what I wanted to do. Multiple reasons.
     
  24. Qrash

    Qrash Gawd

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    All good points. I was guessing that the LED "cover" was separate from the actual metal heatsinks underneath. Apparently, that is not the case.

    The old NH-C14 is so rare. It's too bad you couldn't use it with your motherboard of choice. I take it, that the cooler won't fit in any other orientation either?
     
  25. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

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    Bummer, I guess the only real solution is for you to step up to the newer & shinier Noctua NH-C14S...!

    You can just send that useless C14 my way...

    ;^p
     
  26. M1AF

    M1AF Limp Gawd

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    I think I have one lying around somewhere...

    20181210_180347.jpg
     
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  27. Qrash

    Qrash Gawd

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    I smell a meme here: photos of heatsink collections!
     
  28. rfarmer

    rfarmer [H]ard|Gawd

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    Nanook has a build log on SFF where he is using a 9900k and Strix Z390 in a Ghost S1. He removed the VRM heatsink in order to install a Noctua NH-L12, he said the VRM temps were fine while using a top down cooler. He later changed to a 240mm AIO and the VRM temps went really high. With the Noctua C14 you should be fine with removing the VRM heatsink. You already have the motherboard and the cooler, just try it and see.
     
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  29. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

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    Just PM me for shipping info...! ;^p
     
  30. SmootyPoody

    SmootyPoody n00bie

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    Nope. If it points upward (the heatpipes in a downward position) it will stick out the top of the case. If the heatpipes are to the right you can only use one module of RAM and it will hit the wall where the 92mm fan would sit and still be 2-5milimeters to big to fit there. And point it downwards (the heatpipes upward) it will block the usage of the PCI-E port. So I another case it can be done with this cooler and MoBo combo, but not in this if you want to use the PCI-E.

    Am thinking of trying a C14S. I should fit (barely) - as it the heatpipes are bent in a higher degree and protude less from the base - but it means putting the PSU in ATX mode and such and using a smaller 15mm thick fan, which does not provide nearly the amount of air. The C14 _SHOULD_ be better than the C14S (relative to noise) in the NCase from all the data I have seen.. But not by much. But some are still debating whether this is true or not.

    But not giving this puppy away ;-P

    Oh wow. Interesting. I have seen buildzoid and such talk about the amount of heat the VRMs put out and it is not a lot, and they are made to work in a hot enviroment. What I am thinking about is the long term effect of removing this and how my warrenty is affected (by removing the heatsink). And my conclusion is that it is easier to just use the ASRock board instead, as I cannot conclude anything about the other part as I have no data on that matter.

    But interesting none the matter.. Will look into it. Thanks!
     
  31. Nanook

    Nanook Limp Gawd

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    With the L12, I was running the motherboard and CPU at Intel stock failsafe (95w regular, with 23 seconds of 210w boost), it does get a temperature spike up to 80c, but back down to 60s.
    With the 240mm AIO, I starting playing with overclocking, and can confirm how power hungry the 9900K can be, drawing lots of power (ie heating up the VRMs), and putting out lots of heat. With my setup, the AIO radiator was below the motherboard, and it was dumping hot CPU air onto the VRMs. I think that could have been the reason why the Z390i throttles the VRM to keep them alive...

    Back to SmootyPoody 's point - I look forward to seeing how your C14 fits with the Asrock board, and how temps are. I am interested in moving to the Asrock board as well :)
     
  32. M1AF

    M1AF Limp Gawd

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    I am prepping to test the C14 vs C14S. Should have a write up on the results as soon as Noctua gets me the fan clips. They said it could take up to 14 days rip.
     
  33. {NG}Fidel

    {NG}Fidel [H]ardness Supreme

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    Can confirm the kraken x52 fits. My Corsair pump died so I'm using this.
     
  34. SmootyPoody

    SmootyPoody n00bie

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    I get the board on monday (tomorrow (saturday) if I am lucky). Will report back. But should fit.

    Nice. Be aware there are many factors when testing such a thing :) The fact that the PSU needs to be moved in another confirguraton is just one of the things that can influence the results.
     
  35. Nanook

    Nanook Limp Gawd

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    If it does, I might migrate my whole build back to the M1. C14S + Accelero III. The works. :)
     
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  36. M1AF

    M1AF Limp Gawd

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    I really don't want to move the PSU around. I wonder how much flak people would give me for keeping it in the atx position.
     
  37. Nanook

    Nanook Limp Gawd

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    I think that as long as the tests are as “apples to apples” as possible.
     
  38. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

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    Well, if you are testing the C-14 & Accelero combo without twin 120mm fans on the side bracket does an injustice to the proper 'Big Air' configuration...
     
  39. M1AF

    M1AF Limp Gawd

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    Yes it would. But since I don't have another A12x15 fan on me and don't want to buy another one specifically for this test then I guess the C14S will go into it with a handicap.
     
  40. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

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    I am talking C-14, you are talking C-14S...

    I think they should be set up as is best for each, so there will be variables...

    But regarding the C-14 classic Big Air configuration, two 12x25 fans would be required on the side bracket, and the SFX PSU in the proper place on the side...

    C-14S would require the SFX PSU in the ATX position for mounting a bottom fan on the CPU heat sink & 12x15 fans on the side bracket for its best config...?
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018