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Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by wahaha360, Sep 15, 2012.
Very informative... Thanks for the detailed explanation!!!
You are welcome, btw. in my setup I got some M16 DIN125 metal washers (o-ring) which fits perfect using Alphacool HF QDCs (it's not the "Eiszapfen" version). Check first the mesurements of your QDCs and keep in mind the maxium external diameter should not over ~ 3.2 cm per metal washers (o-ring), because both need to be placed in short distance to each other, this took me a while to find a correct one.
I want to get the windowed side panel but I currently have 2x120's fans on the side. If I mount the included 140m fan on the C14 alone and remove the other 120 fan will it bring my temps up?
This will rise your temps up there is no doubt about, because the side panel is the main area to get fresh air into the case or if you go the other way around to get the hot air out of the case. But if it's just +5°C to +10°C or much more this depends on a few other factors. If someone has the C14 and a similar GPU like you and the windowed side panel, we would have some numbers to compare. I rember for the DAN A4-SFX with the windowed side panel the CPU temps rised up by aorund +15°C, but the DAN case is in general "worse" than the Ncase case in terms of cooling perfomance, because much smaller different cooling options, so no real comparsion, just an example that a windowed side panel has depending a larger impact on CPU temps.
Yes. By a LOT. I went from around 75C game load to 90C+ by mounting the 140mm fan to my C14 and installing a glass panel.
Thank you all for your inputs. Will hold off on getting the windowed side panel then until they perforate it if its possible
Doubt they will, it's possible with the acrylic one but glass I would forget about it.
I would like to get a custom design like the ppl are doing with the Dan case made out of acrylic .. not gonna lie, wish I had a bandsaw
New case feets had arrived and installled!
Here's the comparison between the default case feet vs what I've bought
Here it is installed (sideview)
Nice! What dimensions did you get? 39x16?
Did you use the included Ncase M3 screws or did you find some other method?
I've brought the same dimension as the others brought and the m3 screws too, perfect fit
I've been browsing the forum for awhile. It's great, it has given lots of ideas how to build in the ncase m1.
This is my first sff and first pc i built. I wouldn't go back to atx again. My girlfriend got me into sff as she said there wasn't room in the lounge for my pc.
Just need to get some shorter cables (corsair sff cables are too long) and hopefully a 1080ti one day.
Does anyone know what i can use to touch up the paint on the inside of the case ? I scratched some off whilst putting it all together.
4790k and gtx 980 build
I got paranoid on temps i think &
I need to tidy up the fan wires.
120mm scythe slipstream was a pain to fit with u9s but just fits with a bit of trimming.
Awesome job, looks great and way to go straight to SFF. My friend just built his first PC and was adamant on an ATX mid tower despite me walking him through all 3 of my ITX builds and showing that they are just as capable.
As for fixing scratches on the inside have you just tried a Sharpie/permanent marker?
First, welcome to the forum and SFF!
In the second photo there are two Noctua fans attached to the inside of the front panel. In the second panel we see that the bottom one draws in air from the hole below the SSD drive, but where does the top fan get air from?
Thanks for the welcome smitty2k1 & qrash. Itx is the way forward i think. It's becoming more popular. Lots of youtube videos popping up with itx cases. I might get a dancase too eventually.
In the second photo, that fan was just an idea. I've got hot air dumping in my case from the gpu so i thought it would stop any hot air getting trapped. I thought it would help with circulation even if half the fan is blocked. The top of the case you can feel the warm air.
I don't know for sure if it's effective.
All my drives have good temps i think. In the 30s. M.2 sdd at the back is in the 40s.
Motherboard doesn't run hot.
Cpu idles in the 30s to sometimes 40s degrees.
Whilst gaming my gtx 980 at 1560 is usually at 50-55 degrees. 4790k is anywhere from 50-65 degrees at 4.6ghz. gta 5 makes my cpu at 65.
I used ai suite 3 so probably more voltage than it needs. Id have to double check how many volts. I don't know how to manually overclock yet. Not something ive done before.
Room temp is about 20 degrees.
I was getting 80 degrees playing gta5 at 4.4ghz with one fan on the u9s and aio fan.
Thats why i went crazy on fans lol.
All the fans are set to standard and i have low noise adapters on the rest connected to molex.
Theres definitely a hum noise but not unbearable.
Do you think a permanent marker would work then? I'll try it
Permanent marker works well for me... much easier than paint with a far better result.
- Touching up a spot is actually hard to do well. The marker isn't as nice as paint, but it will blend in very well at a fraction of the effort.
Thanks buddy. Off to amazon to buy a marker then. the scratch marks do annoy me even though you can't see them with the panel on lol.
I never thought a marker would work, thanks.
Most of the damage was done fitting the scythe fan where the noctua u9s is. Took abit to figure how to fit it. I threw one fan in the bin too.
Scratch marks are pretty bad.
Are you running WIn10? I didn't know AI Suite 3 still worked. I've got a 4770k myself on an Asus Impact VI.
Yeah i'm on windows 10. I'll have a look what version it is when i get home. Can't remember where i downloaded it. Might of been asus. i could upload it if i got the file. if i'm allowed. Not sure on forum rules.
What are your temps like with 4770k? Just curious.
Ai suite 3 3.00.10 works for me. Should for you too.
Thanks I'll try that later. I'm not overclocking my 4770k and I've got it on a big Noctua C12P SE14 (140mm fan) cooler. The fan is silent while gaming and I'm pretty sure I'm at or below that 65 degree mark you're at while gaming, but Prime95 really brings it to it's knees (90deg)
Did ai suite work? They're good temps. Wish my pc was silent. Don't think its possible for me. I tried stock clocks the other day just see if it's much quiter. It is quiter but i need a fan controller i think.
Does anyone a compact fan controller that would fit in the ncase?
I used one of these when I first did my build and it was watercooled, works very well just kind of a pain to reach behind to adjust the fans.
Hi all, I have finally pulled the trigger on one of these babies and really looking forwards to receiving it.
I've gone with black and ODD. Not sure why I went for the ODD version to be honest - just to give me the chance to move my ODD across I suppose even though it has had hardly any use. I still think that one day I'm going to rip all my CD's into lossless format.
So now I need to think about what to put inside. This is a question which is asked constantly but the answers change with time as new hardware becomes available and is tested but I'm mostly concerned about my cooling options and looking for advice on this please.
This is not a 'money no object' build but I am prepared to throw some money at it in order to make sure I get the best stock performance I can. For example, I'm not contemplating a custom watercooling loop but prepared to spend well on the best possible AIO etc.
I need this to be capable of keeping a 1080 Ti and i7 8700K happy. Here's my needs;
It's a living room PC so it can't sound like a helicopter taking off ever - even when it's at full pelt so all fans PSU's and/or pumps must be quiet. That's why I'm prepared to spend.
It won't need to cope with high overclocking. I might have a play with the CPU if I buy a motherboard which does this for me but I'm the sort of person who builds a PC to use it, not to run benchmarks and tweak. But I also don't want my 1080Ti to throttle - under any circumstances.
I 100% absolutely do not want to mod my case in any way. I don't own a dremel and don't want one. I have no workshop, and no skill at all even if I did. I may end up using a magic marker to touch up the chipped black paint on the case. That's the limit of my ability.
I am prepared to put some effort into squeezing in the best stuff if I can. My build for the current Silverstone ML07 three years ago included shoehorning a great little AIO into my powerhouse.
I've not ordered a windowed side panel, but if the experts here think it could work then I will, but cooling comes first so I'm thinking that it's out.
Just to give an indication of where I am - happy to fit an Arctic Accelero to the GPU. Will most likely try my hand at delidding the CPU. Have a real aversion to the ghastly colour of the Noctua fans so while they might be OK for a CPU tower cooler, anything which presents to the outside (such as the fans for a 240 radiator) will need to be much prettier. Thinking of noiseblockers for the performance or the NZXT fans because they just look great if they are also close enough. I saw mention of a Be Quiet! Dark Rock TF but that's 0.8mm too tall - or is it? I'm prepared to try and squeeze that in if there's a reasonable way which doesn't need that Dremel or it doesn't create a resonance by pressing on the frame.
But if you have read the paragraph above and think to yourself 'what a fool, that Noctua ABC-123 in horrid puce and brown colours would be the silver bullet which cures all his problems' then tell me anyway - performance trumps looks.
Full disclosure; I've posted this also over at Overclock.net but want to make sure I capture the best thoughts and ideas so please excuse the overlap.
Looking forwards to lively discussion!
I can answer some of your questions. The Dark Rock TF does fit in the case and both cools very well and is very silent, I have one. Problem with the TF is motherboard compatibility, it will not work with the Asus Z370 Strix at all due to the tall VRM heatsinks. The only board listed as fully compatible on their website is the Gigabyte Z370N. I have that board and can confirm that it does fit and is a very good motherboard. Only other board that has dual M.2 slots like the Asus.
I did delid my 8700k and the results were all I was hoping for, 20C improvement at 1.35v and 15C at 1.20v. The TF is capable of keeping the 8700K cool even without the delid, max temps I saw while gaming were in the low 70C.
If you are looking for silence and good performance for your 1080 Ti I would recommend Arctic Accelero III with 2X120mm fans exhausting out the bottom, this has been shown to be an extremely effective way of cooling the GPU in the M1 and not adding exhaust heat to the CPU.
If you are looking for a good AIO I have heard that both the Be Quiet and the Fractal work very well and are very quiet, but I have no experience with either. I can say I have Noiseblocker fans and they perform very well and are very quiet.
As far as the windowed panel goes everything I have seen so far indicates it makes it harder to keep the components cool, Necere himself has said he does not recommend it for that reason. That side panel is the main point of fresh air intake for the case.
Good luck with your build and hopefully others will chime in with their experience and opinions.
If you're looking for the absolute quietest without throttling, you'll want beefy cooling and to do whatever you can to increase its effectiveness outside of ramping fan speed. The better your cooling system, the less work it'll have to do to keep your temps acceptable, the quieter it runs. Personally, with that in mind (and based solely on what I know) I'd do the following (in order of importance):
-Delid the cpu. It's super easy nowadays, with simple tools and easy to follow guides everywhere, and it makes whatever cooling solution you settle on more effective to an unbelievable degree. Linustechtips did a great one that explained the variables you'll deal with and also included the relidding process.
-Liquid cooling. Air coolers in this case are effective to be sure, but in my experience they tend to have smaller fans that have to spin faster to move the same amount of air and it's always air from in the case and not fresh from outside. It's not cheap to do it right in a custom loop, but going for that option opens up the possibility of including your gpu in the loop. In the ncase, there have been several people who managed to fit two 240mm radiators in, with room left for a few 2.5"drives if you need. With that much surface area, the fans wouldn't need to spin up that high to do their job. I'd ask those individuals directly about how they did it and the noise results if you intend to do that. Obviously if you need 3.5" drives, that layout wouldn't work, but even a 120mm aio would be enough after delidding to reduce noise.
-Tweak your fans. No matter what cooling solution you go with, find some way to adjust the fan speed yourself. If it's an AIO or motherboard that lets you adjust the fan curve in software do that, otherwise get a manual fan controller and set it to something acceptable, then leave it. It'll keep the noise steady and if you don't mess with overclocking the system will adjust itself around that limit.
-Undervolt. Stock voltage profiles are more than a bit high in my experience. You can get considerably better cooling and performance just by experimenting with it and seeing what it'll accept at stock clocks. This is a bit of a process though and you mentioned you don't want to mess with that kind of thing so it's optional.
I know it's just general pointers but I hope it helps. Mostly I meant for this to be something to aid a Google search, since that's how I found most of this when I was looking for myself a while back. After all, google's only helpful if you know what to look for.
Thanks rfarmer, this is helpful. Can you confirm that the Dark Rock TF doesn't touch the frame? Interesting motherboard compatibility issues - I'm not sure that I'm aiming at a pair of M2's but perhaps I should at least consider it. I've not made my mind up with the motherboard yet - it will obviously be a Z370 because of the chip but I'm neither wedded to any particular manufacturer or likely to need any esoteric functions - just looking for reliability and stability.
Regarding the GPU cooling, my Silverstone ML07 is currently working on positive pressure principal which means all incoming air can be filtered. I've got trouble with it at the moment and lifting the lid for the first time in well over 2 years it was great to see zero dust build up anywhere except the PSU intake. If I use the fans under the GPU as an exhaust putting the case under negative pressure then it's going to be drawing air in through all sort of other gaps - should I expect a dust build up or is the Ncase pretty good in that area?
Also, I'm assuming that people are only utilising the heatsink from the accelero and not the fan unit?
It does help, thank you. I think delidding is definitely the way to go for anyone thinking of making the most of their equipment these days. it won't need a workshop, just a bit of additional kit, and yields such incredible results it surprises me that intel have not yet embraced the concept itself more formally, in the way they did a few years ago for overclocking.
I did a custom loop some years ago in a big HTPC case. Had a large external passive Zalman radiator and a 240 inside the case but found that tweaking anything at all become so much of a chore that I really can't be bothered to try now. It's not the cost or that I can't do it at all, so much as sheer hassle factor during the build and then every time you want to do anything at all. An AIO I can manage, and I even like the idea of the dual 120's - one for the delidded CPU (which should be fine) and one for the hybrid GPU card. Presumably a Kraken G12 would be OK if I wanted to do my own thing, although I'm partial to the Accelero solution mentioned above.
Thanks again to the both of you for your comments. I have a while to work out what to buy so don't want to ruch into things without thinking about it and being certain of compatibility. Mini-ITX builds are massively enjoyable because of all the research needed and gratifying when you get it right. For me it's a challenge I really enjoy - thanks for helping.
I can also vouch for the Dark Rock TF. It is just the right height, so that the air it intakes pretty much has to come from outside through the side panel. Finding a motherboard that will fit it is quite a trick. If the CPU socket is too high, low, or too far to either side you might find that even if it fits on the motherboard, it might be sticking out past the top of the case, over the pci-e slot, etc. I have posted some pictures to try and show just how close of a fit it is with my motherboard. The Dark Rock TF keeps my CPU a lot cooler than when it was on water and I can’t ever hear it at all. (My PSU is too noisy)
CPU temps haven’t ever been a big concern for me because I have always been preoccupied with trying to keep my GPU from thermally throttling. I have a GTX770 so I guess that should be no surprise because it is a 230W graphics card and my processor is only a 95W processor. In the past I used a full custom liquid system and that kept my GPU a lot cooler but my CPU warmer. Currently I have the Arctic Accelero Extreme III and it is just barely keeping it from throttling. My fans are bringing in fresh air from the bottom. People on this forum say that it’s best to exhaust, but it’s such a pain to get the Arctic Accelero in and out of the case, that I don’t bother switching the fans. The card isn’t throttling, so that’s good enough for now. It’s going to be replaced as soon as I can get my hands on a card at MSRP. Who knows when that will be, but maybe it will happen when the next round of cards are released; Volta, or whatever they decide to release next.
My card came with a cheap blower. I though I was getting a good deal, but I have spent more than the price of the card in cooling solutions just trying to keep it from throttling.
If you haven’t purchased your card yet, save yourself the headache of trying to find a way to keep it cool and just buy a hybrid card.
I know of only one build where the 3 Accelero fans were used. The owner was happy with the cooling performance. Using bottom fans to exhaust out of the case came about for graphics cards that generate a lot of heat.
I have ordered the Inno3D iChill X3 version of the 1080 Ti. It comes with a trio of fans, but is well within the required dimensions, massively heavy, but has one of the most effective cooling solutions out there. It's actually only a couple of £££ more than the original launch price from last year too! There's a mode which switches off the fans at lower temperatures because the heatsink is so good. It has a massive overclock so I can afford to undervolt too if it's not too much hassle.
I'm thinking this will be almost as good as an Accelero for cooling, and I can supplement the onboard system with a couple of large slow fans at the bottom of the case. My assumption is that the GPU cooling unit will pull air in and up across the fins and PCB, so that I probably need the case fans immediately underneath them to also pull in so that it doesn't disturb the airflow. Some guidance or thoughts on this would be helpful though I guess that I’ll probably find out in early tests what works.
This leaves me with the CPU cooling to work out. With the bottom of the case pulling air in and warming everything up inside, even a delidded CPU might need a cooler which interacts with the outside world more directly that the Noctua D9, for example, would. Perhaps the Dark Tower is therefore a must, which means the Gigabyte board is also a must and that is my dye now cast for the whole thing.
How is this all sounding?
My cost cutting will be on storage where I'll use the M.2 slot with heatsink for the OS drive (500GB) and have a 2.5" HDD for data/games which I can place wherever I fancy.
PSU I'm struggling with. I potentially have problems with the Silverstone SFX 600 PSU in my current rig but I can try it out and, if it's actually still OK, try and replace the fan with something quieter. It's out of warranty so doesn’t matter so much.
Are the Corsair SFX PSUs now the best option?
I really like mine, no regret. My build in my signature.
Interesting thank you. Strong build and air cooled. If the Aero works without extras, then I’m confident that my ichill works too.