NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

KMPKT said:
My two cents..

It seems to me that a fair way to settle this dispute would be to use the calculators provided to determine an agreed upon "fair" customs and brokerage charge based on the true value of the case. Subtract that amount from the 101 CAD to get the amount that has obviously been overcharged in error by either Canadian Border Services Agency or Canada post. Split that amount between you which would be a refund of somewhere in the neighbourhood of 30-40 CAD from NCASE. In this situation you've split the liability which ultimately belongs to a massive lumbering bureaucracy that stopped giving a shit the second they received the customs payment.

So 185 USD is 230 CAD. Putting 230 CAD into the calculator gives 11.50 CAD. Apparently Canada Post charges a 9.00 CAD brokerage fee bringing the appropriate total to 20.50. Subtracting that from the 101 CAD basically gives 80 bucks. Refund of 40 CAD sound fair?

This way NCases isn't paying you to take their case out of their cost of the case, and you're not getting ripped off by the powers that be for the full amount. Not a perfect solution by any means, but in this case no one has to be the bad guy and no one has to get publicly slandered.
Click to expand...

They said they won't pay me a single penny & I have to pay for it all.
 
rasesh said:
They said they won't pay me a single penny & I have to pay for it all.
Click to expand...

nor should they, welcome to Canada. ncase has no fault in this, its our Crappy Canadian duty system at fault. I had to pay nothing for mine in Ontario.

the only way to ensure going forward you don't get hit with ridiculous brokerage fees is to have ask the seller to mark it RMA and insured value only (this is not an invoice), or if they are willing mark the value for much less or the package as a gift. otherwise they base brokerage fees on the full retail on the invoice, PNY messed this up every time I had an RMA and had to pay brokerage on warranty returns all the time and learned the hard way( and stopped buying PNY since all their cards died on me) . of course thats probably against the rules but either way our brokerage system is retarded and needs fixed

I had to pay 90$ on a 120$ Access Point years ago, 160$ brokerage on a 120$ waterpump, both times were in error on their part but good luck getting them to do anything about that.
 
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is it at all possible to buy the power switch and the wires that connect it to the motherboard? today i was plugging my headphone/microphone into the front audio/microphone jack of my M1 and as i was pushing the connectors in, my computer shut down! my guess is that the power switch is faulty.
 
The 4 GPU* project is complete!

*3 are external

Ended up surprisingly tidy considering the insane wiring.



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Chapeau said:
What's this sticker on the rear vent? Just cosmetic?

How does the SF600 go powering all those cards?
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The SF600 powers the cards quite comfortably. It's not even that loud or hot. I have the side bracket fans at 2000 RPM feeding it fresh air. I run the cards at 70%, so total power draw = 105W + 105W + 105W + 175W = 490W + CPU at idle/web browsing = ~15W + rest of system = ~10W. If doing anything CPU-intensive, I turn off a card.

I should note that I have a massive air purifier next to my desk, so I can't hear anything from the computer... I would honestly not do this otherwise as I am runnnig the 1070s fans at 70% and the 1080 Ti fans at 80% + the SF600's noise at 500W draw + 4 Gentle Typhoons @ 2000 RPM. Without the air purifier's white noise, which is quite soothing albeit loud, this system is like a small server rack. I have Demciflex filters on all intakes and all external graphics cards' fans, so I'm managing dust quite well.
 
Looking for an answer from someone who's done extensive research on air cooler's especially in the ncase m1.

I'm getting a Asus Z270i ROG Strix & looking for a air cooler to cool 6700k.
I obviously wanted to go the Noctua U9S route but not a fan of the brown fan colours. Noctua recently came out with their new chromax black fans but they won't be coming out with 92mm one's for the u9s.

1) Dont want brown fans. 120mm brown noctua fans are okay because they are coming out with black 120mm one's but not 92mm.
2) I don't want to deal with dark rock TF fitment issues.
3) That leaves us with Noctua NH-L12S, Cryorig C1, Cryorig C7, Cryorig H7, Crying M9, etc... (don't know other manufacturer's with cpu cooler's).

My question to you is based upon my criteria which cooler is the best overall for - cooling, zero noise at idle, & overclocking? Basically which one is the best based upon my criteria?

Thanks.
 
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Why are you so dead against the standard Noctua fans? Sure, the colour isn't great, but it's not like you can see them inside the case, and the performance is great.

In any event, Noctua do non-beige 92mm fans - check out their Redux line. But you'd be adding a fair bit of cost for no performance gain and aesthetic improvement on a component that you can't actually see inside the case.
 
Or there's paint.... ;)
The U9S is an excellent cooler!

1. ABS or nylon primer
2. Paint
3. Clearcoat

Mr Hobby and Tamiya are excellent. Then you can match the colour to your other components...

Won't affect performance although it does add up a little with the cost of paint.
 
Nobu said:
Doesn't look like he answered this question, but going by what he said, I'm guessing it is a magnet for the demciflex filter, although it doesn't look like a fan is installed there currently/yet.
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Apologies. Yes, it's a Demciflex filter magnet. Currently not using it.
 
rasesh said:
Looking for an answer from someone who's done extensive research on air cooler's especially in the ncase m1.

I'm getting a Asus Z270i ROG Strix & looking for a air cooler to cool 6700k.
I obviously wanted to go the Noctua U9S route but not a fan of the brown fan colours. Noctua recently came out with their new chromax black fans but they won't be coming out with 92mm one's for the u9s.

1) Dont want brown fans. 120mm brown noctua fans are okay because they are coming out with black 120mm one's but not 92mm.
2) I don't want to deal with dark rock TF fitment issues.
3) That leaves us with Noctua NH-L12S, Cryorig C1, Cryorig C7, Cryorig H7, Crying M9, etc... (don't know other manufacturer's with cpu cooler's).

My question to you is based upon my criteria which cooler is the best overall for - cooling, zero noise at idle, & overclocking? Basically which one is the best based upon my criteria?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

The Noctua C14 is the best air cooler for the M1. It's been discontinued for a while and becoming hard to find. I was lucky to snatch one earlier this year, but I don't see any available now in any of the regular places. With it, you can use any 120x25 fan.

The Noctua C14S is too tall to use in the M1 with 25mm fans. You need 15mm fans. That being said, it's still the best cooler if you are okay with slim fans. Noctua's NF-A12x15 is by far the best 120x15 fan, but it doesn't come in black... The Scythe Slip Stream is good, but it's 12mm, so not ideal for this. There's also the Silverstone FW121, but it's blue. Here are some more options:

https://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g3...t_Fans_-_PWM-120mm_x_15mm_PWM_Fans-Page1.html

If you don't want slim fans, then the U9S is a good choice and you can get Noctua's NF-B9 Redux fans for it, which are grey.

There are probably other good top-down options besides the Dark Rock TF, I haven't researched in a while, so I'll let others give advice. L12S and C1 are good options, but a bit underwhelming. H7 won't fit.
 
QuantumBraced said:
The Noctua C14 is the best air cooler for the M1. It's been discontinued for a while and becoming hard to find. I was lucky to snatch one earlier this year, but I don't see any available now in any of the regular places. With it, you can use any 120x25 fan.

The Noctua C14S is too tall to use in the M1 with 25mm fans. You need 15mm fans. That being said, it's still the best cooler if you are okay with slim fans. Noctua's NF-A12x15 is by far the best 120x15 fan, but it doesn't come in black... The Scythe Slip Stream is good, but it's 12mm, so not ideal for this. There's also the Silverstone FW121, but it's blue. Here are some more options:

https://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g3...t_Fans_-_PWM-120mm_x_15mm_PWM_Fans-Page1.html

If you don't want slim fans, then the U9S is a good choice and you can get Noctua's NF-B9 Redux fans for it, which are grey.

There are probably other good top-down options besides the Dark Rock TF, I haven't researched in a while, so I'll let others give advice. L12S and C1 are good options, but a bit underwhelming. H7 won't fit.
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There's the Silverstone fn123 and the rosewill RASF-141213, don't know how they compare to noctua in noise or performance, though.
 
Nobu said:
There's the Silverstone fn123 and the rosewill RASF-141213, don't know how they compare to noctua in noise or performance, though.
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According to specs by Noctua and Silverstone:

NF-A12x15:

1850 RPM, 94.2 m^3/h airflow, 23.9 dba, 1.53 mm H20 static pressure

FN125:

2000 RPM, 55.3 m^3/h airflow, 23.5 dba, 1.52 mm H2O static pressure

Nearly identical in every stat except airflow where the NF-A12x15 murders the Silverstone with 75% more airflow. So yes, not really close, but if you must have monochrome fans, it seems like an okay option.
 
For comparison, rosewill reports 50-55 CFM (84.9m^3/hr) and 20-25dBA. Since the range is so narrow and operating RPM range so wide, I'd expect static pressure to be pretty good, but there's no way of knowing how rosewill may have skewed the numbers, and in practice it might not be so good.
 
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Wonder how good a cryorig c1 can get compared to a noctua u9s when you put a 25mm thick fan on it instead of the 15mm it comes with.

Also wonder how good the C1 would be with another fan on left the side bracket shooting fresh cool air straight at it. Noctua U9S size allow for that.
 
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QuantumBraced said:
There are probably other good top-down options besides the Dark Rock TF, I haven't researched in a while, so I'll let others give advice. L12S and C1 are good options, but a bit underwhelming. H7 won't fit.
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Another top-down to consider is the scythe kabuto 3. I have seen some very positive reviews for it. One review said it was even more quiet than the Dark Rock TF and the cooling performance was good too.

I am considering replacing my DarkRock TF with the kabuto 3 for a few reasons.

I would prefer to use 120mm fans in order to minimize how much air gets pulled throug the fan from the inside of the case instead of getting fresh air from the outside. I figure that because the side vent holes are sized for 120mm fans, using larger fans results in more air getting recirculated from inside the case.

I think that using 120mm fans will maximize how much air gets pulled in through my fan filters, and so I would have less dust in my case.

lastly, and most importantly, after installing the Dark Rock TF, my graphics card has been thermally throttling. I think this is because there is less air being brought in from the side vents. Before the Dark Rock TF, I had 2 side 120mm fans, now there are none. If I can rotate the TF 180 degrees, I should be able to put a 120mm fan back in the front side position, and I think that would fix the problem, but I'm not sure if I will be able to make that rotation because I think the caps on the end of the heat pipes will hit the back of the case if I try to rotate the TF that way.
 
https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7034/cryorig-c1-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html

According to tweaktown reviews the Cryorig C1 beats the Noctua U9S in cooling.
Although, they are both stock meaning U9S has 1 fan but on the other hand the Cryorig is also only using the 15mm slim fan instead of a full 25mm thick fan.
Another thing is the Cryorig C1 gives you room to add a 120mm on the left side bracket giving it fresh air head on.

What do you guys think?

I saw a post on page 445 which shows a person using a Cryorig C1 but he needed a PCEI riser card to install the GPU 1 slot down or the C1 would touch the top of the GPU.
His motherboard layout & location of cpu slot is very similar to the Asus Z270i Strix.


Not sure.
 
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Are there any better blower coolers for the GTX 1070 or 1080 besides the standard FE ones?

Still trying to figure out how to upgrade my GTX 780 :)
 
Anyone can tell me if it's possible to mount 2 x 3.5" inside the case at the front?
So I can have the following setup with 2 front mounted 3.5" drives:
https://imgur.com/S0diM1X
https://hardforum.com/attachments/computer-17-jpg.30922/

I found the following:
https://hardforum.com/threads/ncase...x-case-updates-in-first-post.1717132/page-516

He seems like he did it but I'm not a handy person so no idea how he was able to do it.
Hopefully without any modifications.
If this is done will I hear the drives in terms of their vibration since there isn't much holding 2 of those in place?

Thanks.
 
rasesh said:
Anyone can tell me if it's possible to mount 2 x 3.5" inside the case at the front?
So I can have the following setup with 2 front mounted 3.5" drives:
https://imgur.com/S0diM1X
https://hardforum.com/attachments/computer-17-jpg.30922/

I found the following:
https://hardforum.com/threads/ncase...x-case-updates-in-first-post.1717132/page-516

He seems like he did it but I'm not a handy person so no idea how he was able to do it.
Hopefully without any modifications.
If this is done will I hear the drives in terms of their vibration since there isn't much holding 2 of those in place?

Thanks.
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My guess is the tops of the two hard drives are attached together using a single wide strip (or multiple narrow strips) of industrial strength Velcro. If it was the double-sided 3M mounting tape the gap between the drives would be less.

Also, notice that the connectors for one drive are pointing downwards and those of the other drive are pointing upwards.
 
Qrash said:
My guess is the tops of the two hard drives are attached together using a single wide strip (or multiple narrow strips) of industrial strength Velcro. If it was the double-sided 3M mounting tape the gap between the drives would be less.

Also, notice that the connectors for one drive are pointing downwards and those of the other drive are pointing upwards.
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Wonder if I can put 1 x 3.5" hdd at the front (website says on 2.5" at the inside front) & still be able to attach right side panel 120mm fan.
Then attach my 2nd 3.5" at the bottom.

Also wonder if the cryorig C1 is used if it would touch my GPU or not using the Asus Z270i mobo.
 
rasesh said:
Wonder if I can put 1 x 3.5" hdd at the front (website says on 2.5" at the inside front) & still be able to attach right side panel 120mm fan.
Then attach my 2nd 3.5" at the bottom.

Also wonder if the cryorig C1 is used if it would touch my GPU or not using the Asus Z270i mobo.
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I had another look at the build photo you included in today's earlier post and I think the two drives at the front are 15 mm thick 2.5 inch hard drives, not 3.5 inch hard drives. Seagate sells 15 mm thick 2.5 inch drives of 4 GB and 5 GB capacity. A 3.5 inch hard drive would be too wide for that location and the mounting holes in the front panel. Also, a 3.5 inch hard drive would have 3 threaded holes on each of the long sides, not 2 holes as in the photo.
 
Qrash said:
I had another look at the build photo you included in today's earlier post and I think the two drives at the front are 15 mm thick 2.5 inch hard drives, not 3.5 inch hard drives. Seagate sells 15 mm thick 2.5 inch drives of 4 GB and 5 GB capacity. A 3.5 inch hard drive would be too wide for that location and the mounting holes in the front panel. Also, a 3.5 inch hard drive would have 3 threaded holes on each of the long sides, not 2 holes as in the photo.
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Ah, yeah. Thanks for the clarification there.

What do you think about the Cryorig C1 hitting the GPU?

Also, whats your take on:

Cryorig C1 with a 25mm thick 140mm fan instead of the stock 15mm fan & + it allows for a 120mm fan on the left side bracket.
VS.
Dual fan Noctua U9S
 
rasesh said:
Ah, yeah. Thanks for the clarification there.

What do you think about the Cryorig C1 hitting the GPU?

Also, whats your take on:

Cryorig C1 with a 25mm thick 140mm fan instead of the stock 15mm fan & + it allows for a 120mm fan on the left side bracket.
VS.
Dual fan Noctua U9S
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I believe the temps would be similar, within 5 degrees of each other. This is based on my experience with a C14 vs U9S
 
Most top-down cpu coolers of the same architecture (eg, if same number of heat pipes) perform similarly. When I say 5 degrees, that pretty much covers most of them. :)
 
M1 compatible heatsinks in Japan

During a recent business trip to Sendai, Japan I had a bit of free time to explore the city, looking for computer stores that might be open on a Sunday. I found a very large electronics store named Yodobashi which is a national chain and what appeared to be a small locally-owned store named Dospara Sendai. At both stores I was pleasantly surprised to see several M1 compatible CPU air coolers that I had never heard of or never seen before. Here is a list of the coolers I found with some crappy phone photos and links. I have no idea how good or bad any of these coolers are, but this shows there are more options than many of us might know about.

First up is the Jonsbo CR-101. A black cooler with 4 black copper heatpipes and a horizontal bank of cooling fins, like the NH-C14 and Scythe Kabuto 2 and 3, The small red dot beside the model name on the box indicates this is the red version. White, blue, and green are also available. The feature colour is present in the fan mounting brackets, the fan corner mounting cushions, and of course the fan LEDs that reflect off of the chrome-like fanblades. As well, a bank of thin vertical slits on the 4 sides of the fan let the LED light leak out.

The CR-101 has 4 6 mm copper heatpipes which are also black. The middle two heatpipes enter one side of the upper bank of fins and the outer two enter the opposite side. This results in a very wide cooler (158 mm). There is also a colour-coordinated heatsink at the bottom where the heatpipes make direct contact with the CPU heatspreader.

The Specifications tab lists the "Radiator Size" as 127 mm x 120 mm x 158 mm (HxWxD). The Specifications table on the box lists these values as the "Dimensions". The product website states on the Overview tab "The height of CR-101 including the fan is 158mm." This is very clear, but based on the photos of the cooler without the fan it seems to me that the total height including the fan is 127 mm.

Update: A Scythe product webpage for the CR-101-RD CPU cooler appears to be the exact same cooler and it lists the height as 127 mm "including the attached fan".

The 25 mm thick 120 mm PWM fan (600 - 1600 RPM, 16 - 42.8 CFM, maximum static pressure of 1.31 mm H2O, 18 - 26 dBA) so the CRC-101 fits within the M1's 130 mm height limit. I don't know how well it coexists with an SFX power supply or the 3.5 inch drive cage. Total weight of the cooler is 625 g.

There are 4 holes at the corners of the base of the heatsink so I am guessing that the heatsink attaches using brackets. I cannot find a user manual but I did find a Ryzen build on YouTube that briefly showed various brackets that are included with the CR-101.

The price of 4980 Yen is equivalent to ~ $44 (US).

CR-101 - front.jpg CR-101 - specs.jpg


Next I found the Enermax ETS-N31, a tower-style CPU cooler that is only 125 mm tall. The tower has an asymmetric design to increase compatibility with tall RAM modules. Overall dimensions are 125 mm x 95 mm x 77.5 mm (HxWxD) and it weighs 385 g.

One 92 mm PWM fan (25 mm thick, 800 - 2000 RPM, 13.12 - 32.8 CFM, maximum 24.5 dBA, 0.86 to 2.15 mm H2O) is included. This cooler features 3 6 mm copper heatpipes that make direct contact with the CPU heatspreader.

Mounting is very different. A pre-installed latch mechanism is used to attach to AM4 socket clips or to clips on a ring that is installed with push-pins on Intel motherboards. An installation video makes both mounting mechanisms very clear.

ETS-N31 - front.jpg ETS-N31 - specs.jpg

The third cooler I found at Yodobashi was the Scythe Byakko (SCBYK-1000I)

Another M1 compatible (barely) with a tower design is the Scythe Byakko (SCBYK-1000I). This 130 mm tall cooler has 3 6mm copper heatpipes that have been nickel plated. The heatpipes do not make direct contact with the CPU heatspreader, though the base is also nickel plated copper. An asymmetric design ensures compatibility with tall RAM modules. Overall dimensions are 130 mm x 102 mm x 83 mm (HxWxD) and it weighs

The 92 mm (25 mm thick) PWM fan has a very large RPM range (300 - 2300 RPM, 6.70 - 46.55 CFM, 0.75 - 1.93 mm H2O, 7.35 - 18.95 dBA). There are no LEDs on this fan.

This 460 g cooler attaches to AMD motherboards with a latching clip and to Intel motherboards using Intel's 4 push-pin clip.

Byakko - front.jpg Byakko - specs.jpg


The rest of the M1 compatible coolers I found at Dospara Sendai. The store had a good mix of new and slightly older parts. This is the kind of store that used to be so common in Ottawa (Canada) 10 to 15 years ago.

All in a row I found a Cryorig C7, a Thermaltake Engine 27, and a Cryorig M9i ((i = Intel model). The C7 is a small top-down cooler and the M9i is a small tower design. The Engine 27 is a strange type of air cooler in which heat is transferred from a base plate through a very thin layer of air to the upper heatsink that is spinning and in fact is the cooler's fan. I've not read very good reviews about the Engine 27, but maybe the larger Engine 37 will be better, though I don't think it's been released yet.

C7 Engine 27 M9i.jpg

Finally, I found the Scythe Kabuto 3 on sale for 4491 Yen which is $40 (US). This C-shaped cooler is 125 mm tall, including the 25 mm thick fan. Previous versions of the Kabuto have been favourably compared to the discontinued NH-C14.

Kabuto 3 - front.jpg Kabuto 3 - specs.jpg

 
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Qrash said:
Next I found the Enermax ETS-N31, a tower-style CPU cooler that is only 125 mm tall.
Click to expand...
I posted about this one a while back but didn't get much attention.

The third cooler I found at Yodobashi was the Scythe Byakko (SCBYK-1000I)
Click to expand...
Also posted about this a while back but seems my original post is gone.

That was interesting nonetheless but none seems to beat the NH-U9S for tower like and C14 for horizontal type. I'm always looking what's new and even have an alert for ETS-N31 review but nothing comes up so not popular at all and seems Enermax haven't sent samples to reviewers either.
 
Rhialto said:
I posted about this one a while back but didn't get much attention.


Also posted about this a while back but seems my original post is gone.

That was interesting nonetheless but none seems to beat the NH-U9S for tower like and C14 for horizontal type. I'm always looking what's new and even have an alert for ETS-N31 review but nothing comes up so not popular at all and seems Enermax haven't sent samples to reviewers either.
Click to expand...

Yes, I read quite a few PC websites, but did not know about all of these coolers. My point in making the post was to show that there are many more compatible coolers than, perhaps, many of us know about. The Scythe Kabuto ones have been mentioned in posts here and they seemed to do well, if I recall correctly. If I had room in my luggage (and could hide them from my wife) I might have come home with several of these coolers, just to try them out.
 
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